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View Full Version : We Have an Income Crisis, Not a Housing Crisis



Teh One Who Knocks
04-26-2019, 11:24 AM
Kevin Drum, Political Blogger - Mother Jones


The New York Times reports that high rent is becoming a serious campaign issue:


Renters hold little sway in Washington. They vote at lower rates than homeowners. They’re generally represented in Congress by homeowners. They have no deep-pocketed lobbyists. And their problems, if anyone considers them at all, are typically waved off as problems for local government.

It’s striking, then, that several Democratic candidates for president are now approaching renters in a way they’ve seldom been treated before — as a voting bloc. Elizabeth Warren, Cory Booker and Kamala Harris, senators from some of the most expensive housing markets in the country, have proposed substantial bills to alleviate the housing crisis. They’re not talking in gauzy terms about homeownership, the rare housing topic that usually gets a nod. They see unsustainable, raw-deal, skyrocketing rents, and they’re not hesitant to sermonize about it.

You might be tired of me going on and on about this, but here’s one more go at it. Please read to the end before you get mad at me. First, here’s the inflation index for rents since 1990, adjusted for median income:

https://i.imgur.com/bBEWYlll.gif

There’s nothing there. Now here’s the rental vacancy rate:

https://i.imgur.com/XE3PE5cl.gif

The rental market doesn’t look especially tight. Following the housing bubble and the Great Recession, it’s now puttering along at about the same rate as in 1990. Here’s the homeownership rate for young households:

https://i.imgur.com/cZTKSe5l.gif

This isn’t directly related to rents, but it does suggest that young families are renting and owning at roughly the same rate as they did in the mid-90s. Homeownership rates are a little lower than they were in 1994, but not a lot.

All of this, of course, is nationwide data. What you really want to know is what rents look like in big cities. Here you go:

https://i.imgur.com/pUBovHml.gif

There’s no question that rent has gone up substantially in some cities. And this data is for MSAs, which usually include the surrounding suburbs. If you want to live in Manhattan or downtown Seattle, rent inflation has probably been higher than this chart shows. Still, there are only six MSAs where rents have gone up more than 15 percent relative to the rise in incomes. And that probably overstates the problem since median incomes are higher in cities.¹

The bottom line is that there isn’t any kind of nationwide rental or housing crisis. There’s a problem in six areas: Denver, San Francisco, Seattle, Miami, New York, and San Diego. And there’s probably a crisis in several downtown city areas—assuming that you consider it a crisis to be unable to live downtown even though you’d like to.

It’s hard for me to see this as the problem that a lot of people make it out to be. And even if it is, I’d say the real crisis is income, not housing. Even the high-priced cities would be less of a problem if incomes hadn’t been stagnant since the year 2000—and actually down for young people. If we figure out how to solve the income problem, we’d solve a whole lot of other problems at the same time. Including the housing crisis.

¹I wish I could get data for median income by MSA, but I’ve never been able to find it in any kind of reliable and consistent form. Still, even if I could get it I’d be stuck with a chicken-and-egg problem anyway. Are incomes higher in cities because cities are more economicallly prosperous? Or because only affluent people can afford to live in big cities? There’s not really any way to tease this out.

RBP
04-26-2019, 11:42 AM
Democrats talking about fake issues to pander to voters? That never happens.

Teh One Who Knocks
04-26-2019, 12:10 PM
Denver is #1 :woot:

Godfather
04-27-2019, 06:27 AM
Denver is #1 :woot:

Damn, I knew Denver was growing but had no idea it was #1 for that. What's a 1br apartment in a trendy neighborhood go for?

Teh One Who Knocks
04-27-2019, 04:04 PM
Damn, I knew Denver was growing but had no idea it was #1 for that. What's a 1br apartment in a trendy neighborhood go for?Take the ballpark neighborhood. You get to live near Coors Field and you are walking distance to the trendy clubs and bars in LoDo (lower downtown). A small one bedroom (about 500 sq ft) will run you starting around $1600/mo and those will most likely be the ones on the lower floors. If you want something a little bigger, say around 700 to 800 sq ft, you're looking at anywhere between $1800 and $2500 per month, depending on what floor you live on and what amenities you want added. Two and three bedrooms will run you upwards of $3000/month to over $4000/month.

And there are trendy neighborhoods in other areas of the city away from downtown that will cost you just as much if not more. There is gentrification going on all over Denver and they are building like crazy new 'luxury' apartments. Like in the University of Denver neighborhood there are apartments that are more than $5000/month to over $10K/month.

Godfather
04-27-2019, 05:22 PM
Sounds exactly like Vancouver. Average is now $2k for 1br and $3k for 2br. Friends are spending either half their income on housing, or half their free time commuting out of the city where it's more affordable. Super shitty.

Teh One Who Knocks
04-28-2019, 03:19 PM
And it's not just the apartments that have gone crazy here, it's all housing values. We bought our house less than 7 years ago for $195K and now it's valued close to $400K which is crazy because I don't live in a $400K house. If you're lucky, you an find a dump that you will spend a lot of money on to fix up for between $250K to $300K. And even in the suburb that I live in, one bedroom apartments in an older complex is going to run you upwards of $1100/month now. This city is quickly becoming too expensive to live in.

Pony
04-28-2019, 04:33 PM
And it's not just the apartments that have gone crazy here, it's all housing values. We bought our house less than 7 years ago for $195K and now it's valued close to $400K which is crazy because I don't live in a $400K house. If you're lucky, you an find a dump that you will spend a lot of money on to fix up for between $250K to $300K. And even in the suburb that I live in, one bedroom apartments in an older complex is going to run you upwards of $1100/month now. This city is quickly becoming too expensive to live in.

Sell Sell Sell!

Godfather
04-28-2019, 05:53 PM
And it's not just the apartments that have gone crazy here, it's all housing values. We bought our house less than 7 years ago for $195K and now it's valued close to $400K which is crazy because I don't live in a $400K house. If you're lucky, you an find a dump that you will spend a lot of money on to fix up for between $250K to $300K. And even in the suburb that I live in, one bedroom apartments in an older complex is going to run you upwards of $1100/month now. This city is quickly becoming too expensive to live in.


Sell Sell Sell!

Or don't yet :lol: In the early 90's my parents bought a house in North Vancouver for about $270k, and it's now assessed at $1.464m (the market has just finally peaked in the last 2 years after folks were predicting it would peak for 20 years). This is an average, 1989-built split level 2200 sqft home, a 40 minutes drive from downtown. It sucks big time for non-homeowners, but folks who held on have basically won the real estate lottery.


These local flipping houses actually kind of piss me off. Sure it's a good way to make money if you know what you're doing, but you're driving your own kids out of town. We have family friends who complained at a party their kids can't afford to live in Vancouver... they've flipped 3 houses since they retired! Which houses did you think they were going to be able to afford?

PorkChopSandwiches
04-29-2019, 03:32 PM
Flipping houses doesn't necessarily make the housing cost go up. I buy a house in shambles for under market, fix it up and sell it at market. Its not increasing the cost

Godfather
04-30-2019, 01:14 AM
Flipping houses doesn't necessarily make the housing cost go up. I buy a house in shambles for under market, fix it up and sell it at market. Its not increasing the cost

Fair point but the thing is with the market so shit hot here specifically is that houses at market value are being flipped for luxury houses.

RBP
04-30-2019, 03:24 AM
GF is saying "flipping" when he means "gentrification".

Godfather
04-30-2019, 07:26 AM
Perhaps it is, that term didn't come to mind TBH. The process going on here in the suburbs isn't at least how I traditionally think of gentrification likes we're seeing on our poorer east side that's always a hot topic of debate.

I googled a few definitions (lame I know): "the process of renovating and improving a house or district so that it conforms to middle-class taste." Or "a process of renovating deteriorated urban neighborhoods." What's going on here is tearing down perfectly good, clean 1980's or even 90's suburban houses and building multi-million dollar mansions. I'm not sure it fits the classic term, but after considering it, I suppose it's the exact same issue just affecting a different tax bracket.

RBP
04-30-2019, 11:55 AM
Back when I did rideshare, I picked up a lady who was working on gentrifying a neighborhood on the west side of Chicago. But where I picked her up was an upper income expensive neighborhood. I asked why she was on this side of town. She was tearing down a $1.5M Brownstone and replacing it with a "$5-7M residence". I said "You're gentrifying Lincoln Park?" She paused. "Never thought of it like that, but I guess I am".

RBP
04-30-2019, 12:29 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wAsBta25OGQ

PorkChopSandwiches
04-30-2019, 03:18 PM
GF is saying "flipping" when he means "gentrification".

:tup: