12p income tax hike...or Britain ‘goes bust’

[redred]

INCOME tax may have to rise by 12p in the pound PERMANENTLY to stop Britain going bust, experts warn.
Current spending levels are unsustainable despite public spending cuts, a report claims.
The problem is made worse by an ageing population driving up pension and healthcare costs. Fifty years from now, in 2061, 26 per cent of the population will be over 65 - bringing the cost of pensions and healthcare to £80billion that year.
Unless the NHS becomes more efficient the Government will have to raise an extra £57billion a year, claims the Office for Budget Responsibility. A 1p income tax hike raises £4.6billion - so a 12p rise would be needed to bring public sector debt down to pre-recession levels.
OBR boss Robert Chote warned: "The Government is likely to have to tax more or spend less elsewhere to keep the public finances on a sustainable path." A Treasury source said the report showed the Government was right to cut public spending.
But TUC chief Brendan Barber accused the OBR of making the case for public sector pension reforms.


Read more: http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/money/3694264/12p-income-tax-hikeor-Britain-goes-bust.html#ixzz1S4ZLyAsQ

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/money/3694264/12p-income-tax-hikeor-Britain-goes-bust.html

[redred]

heres an idea why don't we stop giving our money away to countries that get themselfs into shit for maybe a year ,stop letting all these people into the country to abuse our benfits and then tackle the wasters that we do have already in the country

[Softdreamer]

agreed.
Did you know that a foreign worker can arrive on our shores, and have reduced national insurance and tax contributions (cheaper for the employers) and the worker then gets to claim child benefit for children that do not even live on our shores!

Heres an idea. Non- British passport holders get ZERO legal aid, and a 20% reduction in any standard benefits.
That would solve the issue with the foreign freeloaders.

And how about closing the Non-Dom tax loophole... Murdock alone would have to contribute billions back into the British economy.

[Loser]

heres an idea why don't we stop giving our money away to countries that get themselfs into shit for maybe a year ,stop letting all these people into the country to abuse our benfits and then tackle the wasters that we do have already in the country


The U.S has these same problems.;)

[redred]

i imagine they do

[Acid Trip]

So your government run healthcare system is slowly making the country go bust? Gee, didn't see that one coming.

:roll:

[FBD]

:hand: but wait, the NHS is free!

[Softdreamer]

Oh yeah its the NHS...


Nothing to do with the global financial meltdown, and the economic migration flood from poor countries.

FFS guys. why not just call us nigger lovin commies and be done with it. [-(

[Hal-9000]

is that 12 pence or 12 pounds?

and

is that one annual fee or is it on everything you purchase?

[Acid Trip]

Oh yeah its the NHS...


Nothing to do with the global financial meltdown, and the economic migration flood from poor countries.

FFS guys. why not just call us nigger lovin commies and be done with it. [-(

I was thinking more along the lines of limp wristed, purse carrying, pinko commie butt pirates. :mrgreen:

[FBD]

Oh yeah its the NHS...


Nothing to do with the global financial meltdown, and the economic migration flood from poor countries.

FFS guys. why not just call us nigger lovin commies and be done with it. [-(

no man, just the old rule - that which is assigned to the most often has the least care taken of it, and that if you give something away for free, you're going to have a shitload of freeloaders lining up to take as much of it as they can receive.

Being a freeloader is learned behavior because people keep giving them things without saying no.

[Softdreamer]

£ vs $ I suppose your system is better despite the lower life expectancy..

[FBD]

heh, a thin slice of the statistical pie that deep loves to bring out :shhh: averages are averages, dont tell anyone the difference in std deviation!

[Acid Trip]

£ vs $ I suppose your system is better despite the lower life expectancy..

We also have the highest drug use of all modern economies. Live free, party hard, and die young.

[Hal-9000]

is that 12 pence or 12 pounds?

and

is that one annual fee or is it on everything you purchase?


anyone? I'm not a Brit so I don't understand the implications of this...

(or why you call dinner...'tea')

[FBD]

yeah, that's why I implied that the std deviation was likely significantly higher here than it is over there - we have more people dying younger, and more people dying older - so what's that say for your chances if you lead a relatively healthy life here vs there? ;)

I'm curious to see what the actual #s are on that.

Hal...that's twelve PERCENT...on the income tax. ya know, just some small chump change.

[redred]

Hal...that's twelve PERCENT...on the income tax. ya know, just some small chump change.

no it's 12 pence

[FBD]

:lol: are you serious?

12 pence and there's an article about it? :lol: I pay more than that in taxes for a friggin bottle of wine!

:roll: :facepalm:

[Softdreamer]

:lol: are you serious?

12 pence and there's an article about it? :lol: I pay more than that in taxes for a friggin bottle of wine!

:roll: :facepalm:

I think it is a 12p in the £ so 12% increase, its scaremongering into trying to win support for more cuts.
The newspaper that the 'story' was printed in famously switched allegiance to our now Prime Minister
just before the last election.. Funnily enough the its part of the Murdoch empire, and just after he became our leader, he appointed a previous chief exec of Murdoch's empire as his chief of communications.. a man currently under arrest as part of the phone hacking scandal.

I doubt they could actually push through a tax rise without full on chaos in the streets like over in Greece.

[FBD]

no it's 12 pence

if its 12p in a pound, and that's 12%, then...

"no, its 12 pence?"

:razz:

am I missing something? I need lunch, and its time to go anyway :dance:

[Hal-9000]

no offense but our gas per liter goes up from .90 cents to 1.22 cents and we don't have an announcement :lol:

Brit folk - is it noticeable in your everyday purchases?

[Deepsepia]

So your government run healthcare system is slowly making the country go bust? Gee, didn't see that one coming.

:roll:

The UK's healthcare system is far less expensive than ours.

UK spending per capita = $2311 (covers everyone)

US spending per capita = $5711

So we must live longer than the Brits, right?

Wrong

Life expectancy at birth, 77 in the US, 79 in the UK.

In other measures, US and UK healthcare statistics are roughly comparable.

If we spent what the Brits spent per capita, we'd be saving $400 Billion a year versus what we do spend.

[Acid Trip]

The UK's healthcare system is far less expensive than ours.

UK spending per capita = $2311 (covers everyone)

US spending per capita = $5711

So we must live longer than the Brits, right?

Wrong

Life expectancy at birth, 77 in the US, 79 in the UK.

In other measures, US and UK healthcare statistics are roughly comparable.

If we spent what the Brits spent per capita, we'd be saving $400 Billion a year versus what we do spend.

Except we pay for our own healthcare in this country (Medicare/Medicaid aside cause I'm not old or poor). The debt falls on the individual, not the country as a whole.

So yes, their National Healthcare System is bankrupting their country as a whole just as I said. We may bankrupt individuals but at least we don't take the whole country down.

[Acid Trip]

In other measures, US and UK healthcare statistics are roughly comparable.



Please share. Let's start with the race breakdown of both countries and then look at the obesity rate. I guarantee they are NOT "roughly comparable". Considering how important genetics are in health the racial breakdown is very important and very different between our two countries.

[Acid Trip]

Here, I'll help you.

United States:
White 72.4%
Hispanic 16.3%
Black 12.6%
Asian 4.8%
American Indian and Alaska Native persons 0.2%
Persons reporting two or more races 2.9%

England:
White 87.5%
Asian 6.0%
Black 2.9%
Mixed 1.9%
Chinese 0.8%
Other 0.8%

So you are comparing two countries with radically different population makeups (I didn't even touch the lifestyle/obesity part) and you call them "roughly comparable"? Your money spent per capita argument doesn't hold water. You have to compare apples to apples. If you don't think race has anything to do with healthcare costs and life expectancy you are terribly mistaken.

How many white people do you know with sickle cell anemia? It's a race specific illness that increases healthcare costs for one particular part of the population. We have 5x as many black people as England and that's just one example.

[Deepsepia]

How many white people do you know with sickle cell anemia? It's a race specific illness that increases healthcare costs for one particular part of the population. We have 5x as many black people as England and that's just one example.

There's a constituency that always imagines that its "the fault of the blacks".

Blacks get more sickle cell anemia than white folks (though white folks do get a very similar disease, albeit with a different name, "Beta Thalassemia"). And white folks get lots of diseases more frequently than black (multiple sclerosis and cystic fibrosis would two diseases often seen in whites, very rarely seen in black folks). And while blacks have a vastly higher homicide rate than white folks, white folks have a much higher suicide rate than blacks (is a very interesting subject . . . not at all clear why this is)

But to your point, its quite easy to compare populations of African descent in the UK vs those in the US, and to compare populations of European descent in the US to those in the UK.

You still come up with the same numbers-- its far cheaper for the National Health Service to treat a person of African descent than it is in the United States, and their health outcomes are better than ours. And its also much cheaper for them to treat white folks than it is for us to treat white folks.

I'd add that Type 2 diabetes is not principally a genetic disease, as you seem to think. Its a disease which may have some genetic component, but its activated by our staggering obesity rate-- again, a basic public health failure.

[Acid Trip]

There's a constituency that always imagines that its "the fault of the blacks".

Blacks get more sickle cell anemia than white folks (though white folks do get a very similar disease, albeit with a different name, "Beta Thalassemia"). And white folks get lots of diseases more frequently than black (multiple sclerosis and cystic fibrosis would two diseases often seen in whites, very rarely seen in black folks).

But to your point, its quite easy to compare populations of African descent in the UK vs those in the US, and to compare populations of European descent in the US to those in the UK.

You still come up with the same numbers-- its far cheaper for the National Health Service to treat a person of African descent than it is in the United States, and their health outcomes are better than ours. And its also much cheaper for them to treat white folks than it is for us to treat white folks.

I'd add that Type 2 diabetes is not principally a genetic disease, as you seem to think. Its a disease which may have some genetic component, but its activated by our staggering obesity rate-- again, a basic public health failure.

I never claimed black people were more/less expensive than other races. I said that every race has their own genetic issues so comparing two populations with completely different racial makeups is not an apples to apples comparison.

Where did that diabetes comment come from? I never said diabetes once. We have a higher obesity rate in the US and that has nothing to do with diabetes like you think I insinuated.

[Muddy]

Don't hate me because of my blackness..

[Acid Trip]

Let's look at smoking as a lifestyle choice that affects health.

Number of cigarettes per adult per year in the United States: 1,196
Number of cigarettes per adult per year in the United Kingdom: 790

Knowing what we know about cigarettes, you can see US citizens should die earlier because we smoke more on average.

[Muddy]

Let's look at black, and how black it is...

[Acid Trip]

Now obesity:

10.1071 deaths per 1 million people in the United States

0.446717 deaths per 1 million people in the United Kingdom

We have more fat people, fat people have more health problems and die earlier rather than later.

[Muddy]

Instead of food stamps we should give out coupons to KFC....

[Deepsepia]

Now obesity:

10.1071 deaths per 1 million people in the United States

0.446717 deaths per 1 million people in the United Kingdom

We have more fat people, fat people have more health problems and die earlier rather than later.

No, you're looking at obesity defined as a cause of death, which is simply a rare indication on a UK coroner's report (I believe for reasons of "delicacy"), however UK obesity rates are very much in the same league as the US.


http://picload.org/image/lpdcci/firefoxscreensna.jpg

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/hea_obe-health-obesity

[Hal-9000]

Now obesity:

10.1071 deaths per 1 million people in the United States

0.446717 deaths per 1 million people in the United Kingdom

We have more fat people, fat people have more health problems and die earlier rather than later.

that amazing...considering Brits like to boil or deep fry just about everything including breakfast I find that interesting :lol:

[Deepsepia]

that amazing...considering Brits like to boil or deep fry just about everything including breakfast I find that interesting :lol:

See my post above-- its "amazing" because it ain't true. Brits have an obesity rate that's quite close to that of the US. The indication of "obesity" as a cause of death on a coroner's report is a matter of local nomenclature-- you can alternately define it as diabetes, hypertension, atherosclerosis, MI; obesity is the root cause behind all of them, but historically was thought to be "embarrassing" to put it on a death certificate, so that's a matter of what the reporting standards are for a health authority. In the US, there's been a push to be explicit about obesity, whereas the Brits seem to be more circumspect, even while they've got obesity rates that are close to ours.

[Acid Trip]

No, you're looking at obesity defined as a cause of death, which is simply a rare indication on a UK coroner's report (I believe for reasons of "delicacy"), however UK obesity rates are very much in the same league as the US.


http://picload.org/image/lpdcci/firefoxscreensna.jpg

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/hea_obe-health-obesity

7% variation is in the same league? English coroners don't put obesity on death reports for "delicacy"? Roughly comparable indeed :rolleyes:

First you insinuate I'm racist (typical liberal move), then you attack my knowledge by assuming that when I say "obese" that somehow meant "diabetes". Wrong on both accounts. Nice try though.

[Deepsepia]

7% variation is in the same league? English coroners don't put obesity on death reports for "delicacy"? Roughly comparable indeed :rolleyes:

First you insinuate I'm racist (typical liberal move), then you attack my knowledge by assuming that when I say "obese" that somehow meant "diabetes". Wrong on both accounts. Nice try though.

I don't insinuate that you're racist. You raise the issue of racial differences, without any statistics to support their significance, make a claim about race and disease which is wrong -- as I pointed out Beta Thalassemia and Sickle Cell disease are basically the same thing.

Compare your numbers for obesity as "cause of death" ( 0.4 deaths per million in the UK, vs 10 deaths per million in the US) with the actual data for obesity.

Demographic data show that obesity is %7 more common in the population of the US-- but that cannot account for a death rate that is 25 times higher . . .unless for some mysterious reason obesity is 25 times more lethal in the US than it is in the UK.

When you compare death rates for diseases linked to obesity, you find that they're very similar in the US and the UK, which indicates that there has to be something else in the "obesity as a cause of death" numbers. Brits have lots of heart disease, lots of colon cancer, lots of diabetes, lots of strokes-- all the diseases to which obesity contributes.

I'd add that when you look at heart disease, you find the highest death rates in the "whitest" countries . . .

http://picload.org/image/lpdcwi/firefoxscreensna.jpg
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/hea_hea_dis_dea-health-heart-disease-deaths

The association seems to be with obesity, alcohol, and a diet with a lot of fat in it . . . but the one strong negative association would be a population of African descent . . .

[Softdreamer]

no offense but our gas per liter goes up from .90 cents to 1.22 cents and we don't have an announcement :lol:

Brit folk - is it noticeable in your everyday purchases?

Its an INCOME tax raise they are suggesting meaning that everyone will have a reduction in money in their pockets to spend, not a price rise in cost of products..

As for petrol prices, we pay double what you do..


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-13338754

All this bickering about the NHS is pointless, its not the national health that is bankrupting the country, its the pensions.

The cost of living 60+ is a joke. We should be looking after our own families instead of letting the state do it.

[Acid Trip]

Here is a very thorough report on healthcare costs by race.

http://www.kff.org/minorityhealth/upload/6069-02.pdf

It shows beyond a shadow of a doubt that different races have different healthcare expenditures. It is both reckless and irresponsible to compare two totally different racial demographics (UK vs. US) and act as though they are the same.

[Softdreamer]

Nice find, but the control group for that study fall into an unfortunate loop hole making the study unreliable..

They were American.