Chernobyl

[lost in melb.]

Just in case people don't want radiation and death conversations sprinkled though the TV thread....

I don't know how much more I want to talk about it, but is there any sound more terrifying than a Geiger counter going crazy?

[DemonGeminiX]

I'm watching the first episode and I'm catching myself absolutely wide-eyed and slack-jawed with the abject stupidity of everyone involved thus far... if this is how it actually went down.

[Godfather]

Great show so far, I'm two episodes in and hooked. Well produced, well acted, eerie and bleak.

Watched a couple docs on Chernobyl this weekend and read a few articles comparing the show to real life. They've definitely taken some creative liberties here and there, embellished events and characters (the hele crashs never happened, they never really believed the water tanks below the reactor detonating was as big a threat as it's said to be in the tv show). The deliberations with Gorbachev and his counsel also spanned more than just a few minutes with only two scientists, they were apparently hours and hours and involving many scientists, so they boiled that down for the sake of TV. I've seen a fair bit of praise for it by historians too though, and some photo comparisons show how accurate they got the plant.

I was basically yelling at my TV too, the Party speak shit is so infuriating and sad. In the show, Anatoly Dyatlov is the man in charge at the time of the meltdown and portrayed as an absolute fool, one dimensional, party line tower, totally in denial. Zero Hour: Disaster at Chernobyl (Discovery Channel) and some other sources describe him as one of the USSR's top nuclear engineers, but also 'a creature of the communist system that raised him' and under significant political pressure. After some reading I think it's fair to say his story is more complicated than in the show, and that flaws and long term systemic issues and cover-ups with nuclear power and the Chernobyl plant in the USSR were also huge factors on top of human error in the control room... but still Dyatlov completely ignored his men and guidelines that night for the sake of politics, and it seems to reflect how hierarchical communication worked in the USSR overall which the show portrays. Horrific stuff.

[DemonGeminiX]

How do you guys feel about the actors not even bothering to attempt to speak Russian, or even use Russian accents?

[lost in melb.]

How do you guys feel about the actors not even bothering to attempt to speak Russian, or even use Russian accents?

I think they've altered a bit. The head party dude is a Scandinavian actor, so he sounds more the part.

I think it would be too complicated as they would be speaking Russian, Ukranian and Belarusian

[lost in melb.]

@Gf

I think you already knew, but they kinda amalgamated 100s of scientists into that female scientist

[Godfather]

How do you guys feel about the actors not even bothering to attempt to speak Russian, or even use Russian accents?

Doesn't bother me, I fired it on without know much about the show and thought to myself 'I don't feel like reading subtitles today, or listening to bad Russian accents,' and low and behold that's exactly what they did :lol:

[DemonGeminiX]

"We're asking for your permission to kill three men."

[DemonGeminiX]

I don't know how much more I want to talk about it, but is there any sound more terrifying than a Geiger counter going crazy?

A Geiger counter going crazy in the dark, then silence.

[Muddy]

Im hearing a lot of chatter about this show..

[Hal-9000]

Great show so far, I'm two episodes in and hooked. Well produced, well acted, eerie and bleak.

Watched a couple docs on Chernobyl this weekend and read a few articles comparing the show to real life. They've definitely taken some creative liberties here and there, embellished events and characters (the hele crashs never happened, they never really believed the water tanks below the reactor detonating was as big a threat as it's said to be in the tv show). The deliberations with Gorbachev and his counsel also spanned more than just a few minutes with only two scientists, they were apparently hours and hours and involving many scientists, so they boiled that down for the sake of TV. I've seen a fair bit of praise for it by historians too though, and some photo comparisons show how accurate they got the plant.

I was basically yelling at my TV too, the Party speak shit is so infuriating and sad. In the show, Anatoly Dyatlov is the man in charge at the time of the meltdown and portrayed as an absolute fool, one dimensional, party line tower, totally in denial. Zero Hour: Disaster at Chernobyl (Discovery Channel) and some other sources describe him as one of the USSR's top nuclear engineers, but also 'a creature of the communist system that raised him' and under significant political pressure. After some reading I think it's fair to say his story is more complicated than in the show, and that flaws and long term systemic issues and cover-ups with nuclear power and the Chernobyl plant in the USSR were also huge factors on top of human error in the control room... but still Dyatlov completely ignored his men and guidelines that night for the sake of politics, and it seems to reflect how hierarchical communication worked in the USSR overall which the show portrays. Horrific stuff.

I read there weren't that many liberties taken. Of course they would have to summarize the Gorby interactions and there were a lot more than two scientists contributing. They were just a face for a larger group.

One of the things I found out was the three guys who went in to release the water (flashlights going out) lived quite a while after. One guy died in 2005, the other two may still be alive.

Also read that it was accurate in the sense that when Dyatlov and his crew were doing the safety test, they did screw the procedures up, over and above the technical fault they found in those types of reactors that contributed to the accident.

Fun fact...still 10 of the exact same type of reactors at work today in Russia.

[lost in melb.]

Im hearing a lot of chatter about this show..

There's a whole lot of syndicate News in my feed about Chernobyl coming to light. Not the show, the actual thing. Whole topics been opened like an old can of worms

[lost in melb.]

Love how have named the different sections of roof as they strategize to find a path to the core to try and cover it.. Two hours there, your dead, one hour there you're dead... And the worst one, 'Martha'... 2 minutes and your life expectancy is cut in half. 3 minutes in full protective gear and you're dead. Circuits shredded in seconds, so robots won't work

[DemonGeminiX]

Go door to door. They're mostly pets, so they'll probably be happy to see you.

Jesus, that was so hard to watch. I almost cried.

[Hal-9000]

Go door to door. They're mostly pets, so they'll probably be happy to see you.

Jesus, that was so hard to watch. I almost cried.

I was going to mention a warning for episode 4 because there's a lot of dog owners here.

I noticed the juxtaposition of the clean up on the roof and the pet 'clean up'.

Reading further tells horrible things like all of the plants, grass and topsoil should of been removed. Every metal object left behind in apartments and homes.

The list is enormous and skeptics say not even half of it was done.

[Hal-9000]

Love how have named the different sections of roof as they strategize to find a path to the core to try and cover it.. Two hours there, your dead, one hour there you're dead... And the worst one, 'Martha'... 2 minutes and your life expectancy is cut in half. 3 minutes in full protective gear and you're dead. Circuits shredded in seconds, so robots won't work

"How about bio-robots?"

Cue the next scene showing workers running out for 90 seconds.

I saw pictures of the rooftops. That must have taken weeks/months to complete.

[lost in melb.]

Go door to door. They're mostly pets, so they'll probably be happy to see you.

Jesus, that was so hard to watch. I almost cried.


I was going to mention a warning for episode 4 because there's a lot of dog owners here.

I noticed the juxtaposition of the clean up on the roof and the pet 'clean up'.

Reading further tells horrible things like all of the plants, grass and topsoil should of been removed. Every metal object left behind in apartments and homes.

The list is enormous and skeptics say not even half of it was done.

That was difficult to watch. The poor kid hardens enough to get the job done, then comes across a proud mum with pups :(

[lost in melb.]

"How about bio-robots?"

Cue the next scene showing workers running out for 90 seconds.

I saw pictures of the rooftops. That must have taken weeks/months to complete.

And many men..

That bit when the guy begins to hyperventilate and stumble. Man, I could feel his state of mind :|

It's an amazing concept though. You cross the Russian empire for the most important job of your life. 90 seconds later it's over and your going home.

[Hal-9000]

And many men..

That bit when the guy begins to hyperventilate and stumble. Man, I could feel his state of mind :|

It's an amazing concept though. You cross the Russian empire for the most important job of your life. 90 seconds later it's over and your going home.


And here's your 400 rubles comrade!

wow...400 rubles is about 8 dollars Canadian

[lost in melb.]

And here's your 400 rubles comrade!

wow...400 rubles is about 8 dollars Canadian

Don't forget the Vodka, comrade! :nono:

[lost in melb.]

Crack a couple of these in. Might be tasty :-k

http://www.ntanet.net/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/prussian_blue_pill.jpg

[Godfather]

Holy shit I stumbled across this on Youtube tonight. Remember the scene where the nurses are dumping the firefighter's clothing in the basement of the hospital?

That really happened... and that shit is still sitting there. This is creepy:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C4g3FkXUhx0

[lost in melb.]

Wouldn't catch me down there

[DemonGeminiX]

Unfucking real what they did to that man just to maintain the image of Soviet perfection.

[Goofy]

Watched E1 of this last night, seems pretty good so far :thumbsup:

[Hal-9000]

Watched E1 of this last night, seems pretty good so far :thumbsup:

Just watched the last episode, 5, and it is :thumbsup:

[Hikari Kisugi]

I thoroughly enjoyed this series, it was so well made, so beautifully shot.
Fantastic drama, and the text at the end to acknowledge certain things, like the creation of the female scientists to represent 30 or so who had input to the main man at different times, to get things done, to eventually force change.

[Godfather]

Haven't watched the last episode yet but this guy does a really good, more in depth scientific explanation of the reasons Chernobyl had a melt down, tying it in with the series. Great summary for anyone who's still wanting more info on the subject:


https://youtu.be/q3d3rzFTrLg

[Teh One Who Knocks]

Just....wow.

[Goofy]

I finished the series off last weekend, awesome :tup:

[Teh One Who Knocks]

Official death toll according to the (former) USSR: 31

:|

[DemonGeminiX]

That's Russia. They control the media so they control the information. Anything to not look weak in their adversaries' eyes.

[Teh One Who Knocks]

That's Russia. They control the media so they control the information. Anything to not look weak in their adversaries' eyes.

Yup, they scoffed a couple of times at even the thought of asking Americans for help.

[DemonGeminiX]

Sometimes you can be too proud. And when it's an entire government of a nation... well, you kinda understand why they are the way they are today.

[Teh One Who Knocks]

When Legasov was giving his testimony and explaining the difference between the Soviet RBKM reactors and the reactors in the west, like why the control rods were graphite tipped and there was no containment shield and the judge kept asking why...

"Because it's cheaper."

[Teh One Who Knocks]

By Nellie Andreeva - Deadline


https://i.imgur.com/HaVHFes.jpg

Communists Of Russia, a Marxist-Leninist communist party, said Thursday that it has asked Russia’s TV regulator, Roskomnadzor, to block local access to “disgusting” HBO miniseries Chernobyl.

The party, not to be confused with the bigger, more powerful Communist Party of the Russian Federation, went on to call for a libel lawsuit against the writer, director and producers of the series, claiming that the program “turned a tragedy into an object of ideological manipulation,” “demonizing the Soviet regime and Soviet people.” (The party’s Sergey Malinkovich, who made the statements, admitted that the series for the most part portrayed correctly the chronology of events and key moments of the nuclear disaster.)

Asked for comment by Russian media, Roskomnadzor said that they had not received a formal inquiry by Communists Of Russia but would examine the request if it’s filed and would respond as stipulated by law.

Chernobyl, which chronicles the April 26 1986 reactor explosion at the Chernobyl nuclear plant, has become a global phenomenon. It has enjoyed enormous popularity everywhere, including Russia, which is prepping its own TV movie about the incident.

[Teh One Who Knocks]

By Tom Fish - The Express


https://i.imgur.com/EbdrO6i.png

THE CHERNOBYL nuclear disaster is the topic of a critically-acclaimed HBO show. But a state-backed Russia channel is now preparing its own version of the show which some Russians have derided as “American propaganda”.

The April 1986 explosion at Ukraine’s Chernobyl power plant was the worst nuclear accident in history. Two Chernobyl Power Plant workers died immediately when the plant’s Reactor Four suffered a steam explosion and at least 28 more died soon after from the lethal radiation release. Approximately five percent of Chernobyl’s nuclear core escaped into the atmosphere, threatening to coat Europe in deadly radioactive dust.

Interest in Chernobyl has spiked, following the release of the critically-acclaimed HBO show.

But Russia is now preparing its own version of Chernobyl drama, which will deviate from historical reality by claiming the US spy agency the CIA was behind the disaster.

Director of the Russian remake Aleksey Muradov claims it will show "what really happened back then".

HBO's miniseries, which concluded on Monday, received the highest ever score for a TV show on IMdB.

https://i.imgur.com/qbnSxpo.png

But in an interview with a widely-read Russian tabloid, Mr Muradov said the forthcoming version of the show "proposes an alternative view on the tragedy in Pripyat.

He said: ”There is a theory that Americans infiltrated the Chernobyl nuclear power plant.

"Many historians do not rule out the possibility that on the day of the explosion, an agent of the enemy's intelligence services was working at the station."

Russia’s culture ministry has reportedly contributed 30 million rubles (£363,000) to the show.

Chernobyl has faced a backlash in Russia, with one columnist describing the show as a plot to undermine Russia's current atomic agency.

Others derided Chernobyl as American “propaganda”, tainting the image of the USSR and exaggerating the disregard of the Soviet response.

Many commentator concludes a main reason for the negative reaction is the feeling of national shame that it was the US that told the tale of Chernobyl, not Russia.

Chernobyl has proved particularly unpopular with Russian state TV and the country's tabloid newspapers.

https://i.imgur.com/C6Z6eG9.png

https://i.imgur.com/OrEnTsw.png

Ukrainian columnist Anatoly Wasserman said: "If Anglo-Saxons film something about Russians, it definitely will not correspond to the truth."

This, he explained, was not because "they don't like us" but because "they simply cannot understand us".

Popular Russian tabloid Komsomolskaya Pravda has published numerous negative articles about Chernobyl - including one promoting a conspiracy theory that it was produced by competitors of Russia's state nuclear company Rosatom, to ruin the country's reputation as a nuclear power.

[Hal-9000]

When Legasov was giving his testimony and explaining the difference between the Soviet RBKM reactors and the reactors in the west, like why the control rods were graphite tipped and there was no containment shield and the judge kept asking why...

"Because it's cheaper."

One thing I liked about how they portrayed the event were the cryptic references about the guy hitting the shutdown button. When they finally established he did push it in time, then it exposed the idea that the failsafe shutdown button didn't work.

[Goofy]

Yup, they scoffed a couple of times at even the thought of asking Americans for help.
Same thing happened when the Kursk submarine was stranded at the bottom of the ocean, by the time they admitted they didnt have the people or equipment to dive down and cut the sub open it was too late.

A friend of mine was actually the diver who cut it open, he has the Russian flag from the sub in his house.

[lost in melb.]

Same thing happened when the Kursk submarine was stranded at the bottom of the ocean, by the time they admitted they didnt have the people or equipment to dive down and cut the sub open it was too late.

A friend of mine was actually the diver who cut it open, he has the Russian flag from the sub in his house.

Wow!

[lost in melb.]

But Russia is now preparing its own version of Chernobyl drama, which will deviate from historical reality by claiming the US spy agency the CIA was behind the disaster.

:rofl:

[Teh One Who Knocks]

:rofl:

The CIA is everywhere and responsible for everything :spy:

[Hal-9000]

Same thing happened when the Kursk submarine was stranded at the bottom of the ocean, by the time they admitted they didnt have the people or equipment to dive down and cut the sub open it was too late.

A friend of mine was actually the diver who cut it open, he has the Russian flag from the sub in his house.

Very cool

[Goofy]

Very cool
I'd have been crapping myself :lol: He was a hyperbaric welder for one of the big oil drilling companies (he's now a company rep/bigwig for BP and stays above water) - heard some crazy stories over the years!

He worked alongside the Russian divers on that job, says the poor guys were hugely underequipped, undertrained and vastly underpaid...... surprise surprise! Bryan's team were meant to access the sub then step aside for the Russian divers to go inside due to "sensitive material" on board (military secrets most likely) but that didn't happen, the Russian divers were in over their head so Bryan effectively led the entry.

He's never gone into the full details of what he saw inside...... not sure i'd want to know anyway tbh. Thankfully he's always been a bit of a nutter anyway so it's water off a duck's back to him :lol:

Edit - he's BP diving rep for Orion group - https://uk.linkedin.com/in/bryan-wilson-b6517791

[Hal-9000]

Thanks Goof.

I assume they found corpses? If it's the story I remember the crew was stuck down there for a long time.

[Godfather]

Damn goofy, that's incredibly interesting. Has he ever given interviews? I'd be fascinated to see a documentary about that.

[Goofy]

Thanks Goof.

I assume they found corpses? If it's the story I remember the crew was stuck down there for a long time.
Oh yes - as i said, he's a bit nuts anyway so it didn't faze him........ think most of us wouldve had nightmares for years after seeing what those divers saw.

Damn goofy, that's incredibly interesting. Has he ever given interviews? I'd be fascinated to see a documentary about that.
Not as far as im aware. As i said, he and his team were never meant to be onboard the sub, just to gain entry for the Russian team...... i assume they all had to sign non-disclosure agreements but ive never actually asked him.

[Hal-9000]

I just read an article by a reporter from The Guardian who was there in the late 80's and 1990. He went with a photographer and the censorship is more than real.

Mice with six toes and weird teeth, incidents of cancer rose immediately to alarming rates, people in hospitals dying within weeks and months...it was horrible.

In the Red forest they uprooted trees that were glowing and root systems curved wildly or didn't grow at all.

The estimate from real scientists (outside of the communist party bloc) is some parts of the land will be livable in 30 to 24000 years. That's quite the ranged estimate.

Part of how Russia kept their '31 people died' official death toll was from citing that cancers and illness after the accident had no baseline to compare against - Translated - Authorities claimed cancer can be caused by other factors and who's to say how Boris developed liver cancer?

The reporter visited people in the hospital and saw the effects of radiation exposure. His photographer developed lung cancer and has already died. The people who lived in Pripyat stayed there for almost three days before the evacuations started, often playing and working outside while the radioactive cloud hovered over Chernobyl.

It's been reported that the cloud traveled to other parts of Europe during the ensuing months as they were attempting to build the sarcophagus over reactor four, and those countries lied to their people about possibly hazardous effects. As far away as Spain.

[Teh One Who Knocks]

It's amazing just how secretive they were able to keep this. I was a junior/senior in high school when it happened, and we really didn't talk much about it because no one really knew just how bad this was back then.

[Hal-9000]

It's amazing just how secretive they were able to keep this. I was a junior/senior in high school when it happened, and we really didn't talk much about it because no one really knew just how bad this was back then.

Guy in this article claims that during the first few years after the accident, parts of the Russian Government were adjusting the radiometers to be less sensitive.

He said they were walking 10 kms away in 1990 and their detection devices either didn't work at all or made one giant burst, then stopped working.

Another scientist echoed a small part we saw on the TV show. When they realized how saturated the area was they were examining, he said they stopped worrying about protective measures. He likened it to thousands of x-rays within a week and even that was being conservative because no one knew what radiation levels that high would do to the human body.

[Teh One Who Knocks]

Guy in this article claims that during the first few years after the accident, parts of the Russian Government were adjusting the radiometers to be less sensitive.

He said they were walking 10 kms away in 1990 and their detection devices either didn't work at all or made one giant burst, then stopped working.

Another scientist echoed a small part we saw on the TV show. When they realized how saturated the area was they were examining, he said they stopped worrying about protective measures. He likened it to thousands of x-rays within a week and even that was being conservative because no one knew what radiation levels that high would do to the human body.

One thing I haven't seen confirmation on as to whether it was true or not....the West German police robot. Did the Soviets reach out to West Germany and lie to them about the level of radiation to get their robot and then killed it when putting it on that most dangerous roof section?

[Hal-9000]

One thing I haven't seen confirmation on as to whether it was true or not....the West German police robot. Did the Soviets reach out to West Germany and lie to them about the level of radiation to get their robot and then killed it when putting it on that most dangerous roof section?

You can google sites that compare what really happened to the show. I did that after watching episode one.

There's conflict though as GF and I both read varying levels of accuracy. Most things I've read since say the show didn't exagerate any of the effects. If anything, they downplayed a lot of what really happened.

The license of using one or two scientists to represent the large group who worked on the problem and the brief scenes with Gorbachev, I don't really consider those things inaccuracies. The helicopter crash was fake as GF mentioned.

There's some dispute about the technical level of knowledge the lead worker Anatoly Dyatlov had. Reports have been confirmed in trials from workers who knew him, who said that previous to the accident he was stubborn, arrogant, not very well liked and did order people to commit actions outside of their training. That book or binder we saw them flipping through in the control room was a very real thing. The Manual..

[Teh One Who Knocks]

You can google sites that compare what really happened to the show. I did that after watching episode one.

There's conflict though as GF and I both read varying levels of accuracy. Most things I've read since say the show didn't exagerate any of the effects. If anything, they downplayed a lot of what really happened.

The license of using one or two scientists to represent the large group who worked on the problem and the brief scenes with Gorbachev, I don't really consider those things inaccuracies. The helicopter crash was fake as GF mentioned.

There's some dispute about the technical level of knowledge the lead worker Anatoly Dyatlov had. Reports have been confirmed in trials from workers who knew him, who said that previous to the accident he was stubborn, arrogant, not very well liked and did order people to commit actions outside of their training. That book or binder we saw them flipping through in the control room was a very real thing. The Manual..

I read that there really was a helicopter crash, it just happened much later in the timeline. The producers wanted to add it to the scene to make people aware of just what was happening and how dangerous it was.