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DemonGeminiX
07-22-2019, 02:55 AM
Democrat presidential candidate Bernie Sanders announced this weekend he will cut staffers' hours so that they can effectively be paid a $15-an-hour minimum wage, prompting mockery from critics who say the move is more evidence that Sanders' plan to raise the national minimum wage is hypocritical and would only lead to less work and more unemployment.

The Washington Post first reported last Thursday that Sanders' field staffers were upset that Sanders championed a $15 minimum wage on the campaign trail, and made headlines for railing against major corporations who pay "starvation wages" -- even as his own employees made "poverty wages."

In response, Sanders told The Des Moines Register he was "very proud" to lead the first major presidential campaign with unionized workers, but also "bothered" that news of the internal strife had spilled into the media.

The self-described socialist candidate said junior field organizers earn roughly $36,000 per year in salary, with employer-paid health care and sick leave. But he acknowledged that their salary can effectively dip below $15 per hour if staffers work much more than 40 hours per week, which is common on presidential campaigns.

The solution is to "limit the number of hours staffers work to 42 or 43 each week to ensure they’re making the equivalent of $15 an hour," he told the Register's Brianne Pfannenstiel.

"It does bother me that people are going outside of the process and going to the media," Sanders added. "That is really not acceptable. It is really not what labor negotiations are about, and it's improper."

He went on to say that the union contract "not only provides pay of at least $15 an hour, it also provides, I think, the best health care benefits that any employer can provide for our field organizers."

Reaction from commentators and lawmakers was unsparing.

"For the first time in his life, socialist Bernie Sanders practices economics and, buddy, the results are hilarious," wrote columnist and humorist Stephen Miller. He added: "Why won’t millionaire Bernie Sanders, who owns 3 homes, instead of cutting hours, pay his staff a living wage? People are starving."

Texas Republican Rep. Dan Crenshaw lambasted the discord in the Sanders' campaign -- which has been struggling in post-debate polls -- as beyond parody.

"So does this fall under the category of hypocrisy, irony, or poetic justice?" Crenshaw asked. "All three? Can’t make this stuff up."

"This situation is an instructive example of the downside of more than doubling the minimum wage," wrote The Blaze's Aaron Colen. "Companies don't just suddenly get more money to pay employees. They have to make tough decisions; usually either cutting hours, or worse, cutting staff."

Added The Daily Wire's Ashe Shcow: "This is just *chef’s kiss*." Ben Shaprio wrote, "In which Bernie Sanders learns about economics."

The development comes days after the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office (CBO) concluded that a proposed $15 federal minimum wage could result in 3.7 million people becoming unemployed -- far higher than House Democrats' estimates -- as employers struggle to make payroll and respond by slashing jobs and hours.

The CBO noted the "considerable uncertainty" in calculating the impact of the minimum wage from state to state, and indicated that up to 17 million Americans could see pay increases.

Republican leaders have said a minimum wage hike would be “devastating” for middle-class families, citing CBO research finding that the minimum wage hike would also reduce business income, raise consumer prices and reduce the nation’s output. Overall, the CBO said the move would reduce real family income by about $9 billion in 2025 -- or 0.1 percent.

Nevertheless, the Democrat-controlled House last week voted in favor of a bill to gradually raise the federal minimum wage to $15 per hour. The current federal minimum wage is $7.25 per hour, unchanged since 2009. The bill is unlikely to see much traction in the Republican-controlled Senate.

The episode underscored a key vulnerability that has dogged Sanders' campaign for months, and which intensified after Sanders released ten years of his tax returns earlier this year. The documents showed Sanders and his wife paid a 26 percent effective tax rate on $561,293 in income, and made more than $1 million in both 2016 and 2017.

Despite advocating for socialism on the world stage, Sanders donated only $10,600 to charity in 2016 and $36,300 in 2017, the records showed, followed by nearly $19,000 in 2018.

Meanwhile, according to a letter from campaign staffers to Sanders campaign manager Faiz Shakir, workers were being "expected to build the largest grassroots organizing program in American history while making poverty wages."

“Given our campaign’s commitment to fighting for a living wage of at least $15.00 an hour,” the letter continued, “we believe it is only fair that the campaign would carry through this commitment to its own field team.”

Sanders admitted in a combative Fox News town hall in April that "you're going to pay more in taxes" if he becomes president.

Godfather
07-22-2019, 06:03 AM
The solution is to "limit the number of hours staffers work to 42 or 43 each week to ensure they’re making the equivalent of $15 an hour," he told the Register's Brianne Pfannenstiel. ... "It does bother me that people are going outside of the process and going to the media," Sanders added. "That is really not acceptable. It is really not what labor negotiations are about, and it's improper." He went on to say that the union contract "not only provides pay of at least $15 an hour, it also provides, I think, the best health care benefits that any employer can provide for our field organizers."


So 40 hrs per week, cutting back hours for salaried workers to ensure they're earning $15 per hour - this isn't a pay reduction (and a lot of non-union salaried jobs like my own have an unwritten expectation you work far more hours than 40 which we shouldn't be proud), best in class medical insurance. What's the problem here?

Godfather
07-22-2019, 06:33 AM
Said another way: A union negotiated a package which included a living wage based on expected hours, plus benefits (healthcare, mental health, parental leave, a gas card for work travel).

After the contract was negotiated, the workers discovered the workload entailed more hours than anticipated during negotiations.

Once this was brought up to the campaign, they started negotiating a new contract to fix this, and (Bernie) limited hours as a stopgap so salaries aren't working out to less than $15/hr. Sounds good to me unless you'd rather glorify the 60 hour work week.

From what I can tell someone leaked an otherwise non-story ongoing negotiation, and this is a weak smear attempt with a misleading headline.

fricnjay
07-22-2019, 04:03 PM
:rofl:

PorkChopSandwiches
07-22-2019, 04:55 PM
What a clown

Teh One Who Knocks
07-22-2019, 04:59 PM
So 40 hrs per week, cutting back hours for salaried workers to ensure they're earning $15 per hour - this isn't a pay reduction (and a lot of non-union salaried jobs like my own have an unwritten expectation you work far more hours than 40 which we shouldn't be proud), best in class medical insurance. What's the problem here?


Said another way: A union negotiated a package which included a living wage based on expected hours, plus benefits (healthcare, mental health, parental leave, a gas card for work travel).

After the contract was negotiated, the workers discovered the workload entailed more hours than anticipated during negotiations.

Once this was brought up to the campaign, they started negotiating a new contract to fix this, and (Bernie) limited hours as a stopgap so salaries aren't working out to less than $15/hr. Sounds good to me unless you'd rather glorify the 60 hour work week.

From what I can tell someone leaked an otherwise non-story ongoing negotiation, and this is a weak smear attempt with a misleading headline.

Or, maybe if you wanted to have a 9 to 5'er for a job, you shouldn't have signed up to work on a presidential campaign?

DemonGeminiX
07-22-2019, 09:53 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Az8y8MP5vlQ

Godfather
07-23-2019, 12:09 AM
Or, maybe if you wanted to have a 9 to 5'er for a job, you shouldn't have signed up to work on a presidential campaign?

Sure, so then why is this story a hit piece against Bernie rather than the whiny union :-k

Godfather
07-23-2019, 12:14 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Az8y8MP5vlQ

He's just echoing the same hazy headline of the Fox News article and then moves on to healthcare. I don't dislike Ben but I'm really no sure what he's talking about: 'Bernie just discovered economics,' did he even read the actual story? This is a fairly simple labor issue.


The bottom line is most of us are salary slaves. We work far more hours than we're paid for, degrading our effective hourly wage. This union complained about it, their boss is acting. We live in some grotesque form of late stage capitalism where, rather than working less hours as our society grows richer as John Maynard Keynes thought we would... we're working more hours, and we're supposed to be proud of it. I do it, it's helped my career because it's the norm, but it's stupid and has been proven to be inefficient. It's proven that most of us could get our work done in 6 hours, but we work 10 to make our bosses proud. I get why business owners love it, but I don't quite understand why underpaid salaried workers so proudly buy into it.

Our office has a manager who likes to proudly boast "my day is just starting" at 5 o'clock... so her workers all stay there until she's done too. Fuck all that. We should challenge it.

DemonGeminiX
07-23-2019, 01:20 AM
:hand:

Quit apologizing for your American Socialist uncle.

Godfather
07-23-2019, 01:21 AM
:lol:

RBP
07-23-2019, 03:47 AM
He's just echoing the same hazy headline of the Fox News article and then moves on to healthcare. I don't dislike Ben but I'm really no sure what he's talking about: 'Bernie just discovered economics,' did he even read the actual story? This is a fairly simple labor issue.


The bottom line is most of us are salary slaves. We work far more hours than we're paid for, degrading our effective hourly wage. This union complained about it, their boss is acting. We live in some grotesque form of late stage capitalism where, rather than working less hours as our society grows richer as John Maynard Keynes thought we would... we're working more hours, and we're supposed to be proud of it. I do it, it's helped my career because it's the norm, but it's stupid and has been proven to be inefficient. It's proven that most of us could get our work done in 6 hours, but we work 10 to make our bosses proud. I get why business owners love it, but I don't quite understand why underpaid salaried workers so proudly buy into it.

Our office has a manager who likes to proudly boast "my day is just starting" at 5 o'clock... so her workers all stay there until she's done too. Fuck all that. We should challenge it.

That completely misses the point. Your boss isn't on TV talking about the hourly wage you get (and deserve) as a basic right for having a job. Bernie is. If his public position was that no job should pay less than $31,200 a year, that's a different discussion. But Bernie has adamantly said that workers deserve $15 per hour worked as the bare minimum wage. Not paying overtime is therefore overt hypocrisy.

Godfather
07-23-2019, 04:56 AM
But Bernie has adamantly said that workers deserve $15 per hour worked as the bare minimum wage. Not paying overtime is therefore overt hypocrisy.

Sorry I don't see how not paying OT is hypocrisy. OT isn't the only solution to a pay dispute, and it's usually avoided by companies to keep expenses from ballooning. I've seen OT approved by my company approximately twice in 7 years.

A contract was negotiated before hiring staff to pay $36k for 40 hours a week with no OT (again plus benefits, 20 hours vacay, 30 day severance guarantee), and then after work started when workers internally complained the hours were higher than 40, so the two sides began actively negotiating to discuss hours decreases and/or salary increases. The union turned down an offer in May for $42k at 48 hours/week ($16.80/hr), and the process is still ongoing with a 42-43 hour max week as a stopgap until then. Even the Union reps aren't mentioning OT as a possible solution based on anything UFCW Local 400 has said publicly about this issue, at least from what I've read, but that doesn't mean he's turned the other cheek like a hypocrite. It seems they've been trying to negotiate ways to fix the problem since well before this hit piece came out.


The unionized insurance company down the road just kicks employees out at 5pm to 'protect their people from unpaid OT.' I don't personally ever want to be in that kind of workplace, but they're a union so why didn't UFCW do that?

DemonGeminiX
07-23-2019, 05:14 AM
Might be a USA-Canada difference in employment expectations. I don't know how it works in Canada, but here it's fair employment standards law (kinda, it can be complicated by contract) that when you're paid an hourly wage in the US, if you work overtime (which is typically over 40 hours per week), then your employer will give you time and a half for every hour worked over the 40. So if you're getting paid $15/hour, if you work a 41st hour, then for that one hour (and every hour following if worked), your pay rate will be $15 + $7.50 = $22.50 per hour. So if you're working 60 hours in a week and you didn't sign any contractual exemptions for whatever reasons, you're first 40 hours will be $15/hour then the next 20 will be $22.50/hour, for a one week total of $600 + $450 = $1150 for one week. I'm sure you can see how that can add up.

DemonGeminiX
07-23-2019, 05:21 AM
By the way, Democrats/Socialists/Economic idiotic terrorists are pushing for this $15/hour to become minimum wage. Minimum wage was never supposed to be a livable wage. Minimum wage jobs were never supposed to be jobs that you keep for your entire life. Minimum wage jobs were supposed to be for kids/students (high school and college age) to get experience so that they could push forward to get better jobs.

That means kids working at McDonalds will be getting $15/hour. No. The first thing that will happen is the powers that be will look for ways to reduce the work force (by replacing human employees with machines) and raise prices of their products to cover. Do you really want to pay $10 for a shitty McDonalds' cheeseburger?

DemonGeminiX
07-23-2019, 05:26 AM
Furthermore, Bernie is pushing for this bullshit wage change, yet what he's paying his campaign employees doesn't add up to $15/hour, even though they're working overtime. So he's doing what he says on the campaign trail will never happen: he's reducing workers' hours to cover the $15/hour.

That is hypocrisy. Do you understand now?

RBP
07-23-2019, 10:54 AM
Sorry I don't see how not paying OT is hypocrisy. OT isn't the only solution to a pay dispute, and it's usually avoided by companies to keep expenses from ballooning. I've seen OT approved by my company approximately twice in 7 years.

A contract was negotiated before hiring staff to pay $36k for 40 hours a week with no OT (again plus benefits, 20 hours vacay, 30 day severance guarantee), and then after work started when workers internally complained the hours were higher than 40, so the two sides began actively negotiating to discuss hours decreases and/or salary increases. The union turned down an offer in May for $42k at 48 hours/week ($16.80/hr), and the process is still ongoing with a 42-43 hour max week as a stopgap until then. Even the Union reps aren't mentioning OT as a possible solution based on anything UFCW Local 400 has said publicly about this issue, at least from what I've read, but that doesn't mean he's turned the other cheek like a hypocrite. It seems they've been trying to negotiate ways to fix the problem since well before this hit piece came out.


The unionized insurance company down the road just kicks employees out at 5pm to 'protect their people from unpaid OT.' I don't personally ever want to be in that kind of workplace, but they're a union so why didn't UFCW do that?

Thanks for more details. You're getting back to normal rules and normal negotiations, which is fine. I'm still making it about "the guy" who insists workers be paid $15... until he can pay them less. This is a Bernie issue that one would expect Bernie to refuse to compromise on. Having said that, it sounds like he made a fair offer to mitigate and the union rejected it.

PorkChopSandwiches
07-23-2019, 03:29 PM
The McDonald's here by my work has 4 kiosks to order your food, and you can order from the app and walk in and pick up. No cashier needed since you pay at kiosk or thru the app

Teh One Who Knocks
07-23-2019, 03:36 PM
The McDonald's here by my work has 4 kiosks to order your food, and you can order from the app and walk in and pick up. No cashier needed since you pay at kiosk or thru the app

I used one of those kiosks last time I went to McD's.....you order and pay thru the kiosk, take a number, and go sit down and someone brings your food to you.

PorkChopSandwiches
07-23-2019, 03:42 PM
I used one of those kiosks last time I went to McD's.....you order and pay thru the kiosk, take a number, and go sit down and someone brings your food to you.

I usually get it to go, but yeah

Teh One Who Knocks
07-23-2019, 03:43 PM
I usually get it to go, but yeah

Then go to the drive-thru :slap:

Teh One Who Knocks
07-23-2019, 03:47 PM
https://i.imgur.com/fKW7Muyl.jpg

Too funny, just stumbled on this just now...timing is everything :lol:

lost in melb.
07-24-2019, 01:24 AM
By the way, Democrats/Socialists/Economic idiotic terrorists are pushing for this $15/hour to become minimum wage. Minimum wage was never supposed to be a livable wage. Minimum wage jobs were never supposed to be jobs that you keep for your entire life. Minimum wage jobs were supposed to be for kids/students (high school and college age) to get experience so that they could push forward to get better jobs.

That means kids working at McDonalds will be getting $15/hour. No. The first thing that will happen is the powers that be will look for ways to reduce the work force (by replacing human employees with machines) and raise prices of their products to cover. Do you really want to pay $10 for a shitty McDonalds' cheeseburger?

The 'out' in Aus is that the minimum wage only applies to 21+ age bracket

PorkChopSandwiches
07-24-2019, 03:12 PM
Then go to the drive-thru :slap:

I do, unless the line is to long ;)

Teh One Who Knocks
07-24-2019, 03:27 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=um30Lbu6-nc

PorkChopSandwiches
07-24-2019, 03:29 PM
great role for Pesci