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View Full Version : Small Business Owner Gets Coronavirus Relief Loan To Keep Employees On Payroll. Now Her Employees Are Angry.



Teh One Who Knocks
04-24-2020, 11:31 AM
By Ashe Schow - The Daily Wire


https://i.imgur.com/CxQJ56il.jpg

A spa owner in Washington State was one of the lucky ones who received a forgivable loan from the Small Business Administration through the Paycheck Protection Program. Yet when she told her employees what she thought was good news, many of them became angry.

CNBC reported that Jamie Black-Lewis received two loans from the PPP, one for $177,000 and the other for $43,800, to help her two spas in Woodinville and Bothell. Black-Lewis previously had to stop paying all 35 employees and herself due to coronavirus shutdowns forcing “non-essential” businesses like spas and hair salons to close.

Black-Lewis held a virtual employee meeting to explain that everyone would start receiving paychecks again thanks to the loans, thinking her staff would be ecstatic to get their income back. Unfortunately, due to the flat $600-a-week increase in weekly unemployment benefits included in the $2.2 trillion coronavirus relief bill, it meant some of her employees would earn more being unemployed than if they were to get their jobs back.

“It was a firestorm of hatred about the situation,” Black-Lewis told CNBC of her virtual meeting with employees.

Naturally, her employees had done the math and figured this out, but because Black-Lewis was now offering them their jobs back, they would likely lose those government benefits.

“It’s a windfall they see coming,” Black-Lewis said about the increased unemployment benefits. “In their mind, I took it away.”

“I couldn’t believe it,” she added, according to CNBC. “On what planet am I competing with unemployment?”

CNBC explained how some employees would end up making more than their regular paycheck with the coronavirus relief funds. Traditional unemployment benefits usually cover about 40% of someone’s previous wages, but each state provides different benefits, as CNBC pointed out:


In Mississippi, a less-generous state when it comes to unemployment benefits, full-time workers making less than $21 an hour ($43,680 a year) would make more money on unemployment than from their job, according to an EconoFact analysis authored by economists Patricia Anderson and Phillip Levine.

In California, a “medium benefits” state, the breakeven is around $26 per hour, or about $54,000 a year.

And in Washington, a generous state, it’s $30 an hour, or about $62,000.

Pay among Black-Lewis’ employees — massage therapists, hair stylists and aestheticians — ranges from minimum wage ($13.50 an hour in Washington) up to about $60 per hour. Many work between 24 and 32 hours a week.

Black-Lewis said even workers who would earn more by returning to work were upset with her for taking such an opportunity away from lower-paid workers.

“They were pissed I’d take this opportunity away from them to make more for my own selfish greed to pay rent,” she told the outlet.

Some employees, however, have come around to tell her they understand that the business needs to survive until it can be reopened.

RBP
04-24-2020, 12:00 PM
I made this point the moment they announced that stupidity. "Why are they creating disincentives to work?!?"

Has anyone heard an explanation on why the flat $600 additional was used as a strategy? They sure as fuck didn't think it through.

Teh One Who Knocks
04-24-2020, 12:03 PM
I made this point the moment they announced that stupidity. "Why are they creating disincentives to work?!?"

Has anyone heard an explanation on why the flat $600 additional was used as a strategy? They sure as fuck didn't think it through.

Yup, how many of these people taking the maximum draw + $600 are going to look at those 8 weeks (I think it's for 2 months if I remember correctly) as a vacation and refuse to go back to work?

Pony
04-24-2020, 12:10 PM
My boss got enough money to bring 10 people back. He gave everyone the option, but most chose to stay on unemployment. He's been trying to get contractors like out water/sewer plant guy and the lawn maintenance company to go on "salary" with us for 8 weeks just to use the money.

I told him if he has an issue spending it he can feel free to double or triple my salary. I'd be happy to help.

RBP
04-24-2020, 12:13 PM
Yup, how many of these people taking the maximum draw + $600 are going to look at those 8 weeks (I think it's for 2 months if I remember correctly) as a vacation and refuse to go back to work?

Absolutely, they will draw as long as they can. The longer term question is how many never return. Companies use light duty after injuries for a very specific reason. The longer an employee is off work, the lower the chance they will ever return. Mind you, that's liability management for LTD, but the principle is exactly the same. Get out of a working lifestyle and everything changes. They get used to not working and don't go back.

Teh One Who Knocks
04-24-2020, 12:15 PM
My boss got enough money to bring 10 people back. He gave everyone the option, but most chose to stay on unemployment. He's been trying to get contractors like out water/sewer plant guy and the lawn maintenance company to go on "salary" with us for 8 weeks just to use the money.

I told him if he has an issue spending it he can feel free to double or triple my salary. I'd be happy to help.

The problem with people not coming back is, that if a business applies for and gets a loan under the PPP, they are required to use the loan for payroll (keeping the same amount of employees) and operating expenses. If they do that, the loan is forgiven and not needed to be paid back. If they don't do this, then it truly becomes a loan and the employer must pay the feds back.

RBP
04-24-2020, 12:17 PM
My boss got enough money to bring 10 people back. He gave everyone the option, but most chose to stay on unemployment. He's been trying to get contractors like out water/sewer plant guy and the lawn maintenance company to go on "salary" with us for 8 weeks just to use the money.

I told him if he has an issue spending it he can feel free to double or triple my salary. I'd be happy to help.

Doesn't that fuck the business owner? The payroll portion becomes a grant is employees are retained. If not, they have to pay it back. Also, if they TURN DOWN work, they should not get unemployment. When the fuck did that change?

Pony
04-24-2020, 12:27 PM
The problem with people not coming back is, that if a business applies for and gets a loan under the PPP, they are required to use the loan for payroll (keeping the same amount of employees) and operating expenses. If they do that, the loan is forgiven and not needed to be paid back. If they don't do this, then it truly becomes a loan and the employer must pay the feds back.

That's why he's trying to put other services we use on the payroll.


Doesn't that fuck the business owner? The payroll portion becomes a grant is employees are retained. If not, they have to pay it back. Also, if they TURN DOWN work, they should not get unemployment. When the fuck did that change?

He gave us the option. Some people have health issues (or in their family) and it wouldn't be safe to come back. Some only worked part time and couldn't go full time. And honestly we don't need a lot of employees until all restrictions are lifted. We hired in a couple girls for cleaning, don't know if they'll stick around after the 8 weeks is up.
And since we're forced out of work by government and because of the "danger" of working while the virus is active I don't think the unemployment offices are requiring people to look for work or take their job back if offered. They have temporarily suspended those requirements.

A lot of businesses are giving people the option to stay on unemployment for now.

RBP
04-24-2020, 12:37 PM
And since we're forced out of work by government and because of the "danger" of working while the virus is active I don't think the unemployment offices are requiring people to look for work or take their job back if offered. They have temporarily suspended those requirements.

A lot of businesses are giving people the option to stay on unemployment for now.

Why would anyone go back to work? From a public policy standpoint, that's lunacy.

Pony
04-24-2020, 01:16 PM
Why would anyone go back to work? From a public policy standpoint, that's lunacy.

Then call me a lunatic. I went back this week.

:lol:

Muddy
04-24-2020, 01:19 PM
Americans.. What a bunch of fucking dead beats. I am so disappointed in my country and what we have become.

RBP
04-24-2020, 01:35 PM
Then call me a lunatic. I went back this week.

:lol:


Americans.. What a bunch of fucking dead beats. I am so disappointed in my country and what we have become.

Muddy answered your question. A few of us still have work ethics.

Pony
04-24-2020, 01:58 PM
Muddy answered your question. A few of us still have work ethics.

Yep, I have responsibilities that need to get done. Sure I could sit home and collect a check about equal to my income but I see this as an opportunity to get caught up on a lot of the little projects I never can find the time for.

lost in melb.
04-24-2020, 03:39 PM
Americans.. What a bunch of fucking dead beats. I am so disappointed in my country and what we have become.

If it's any consolation, I haven't found that to be the case in my circles. Quite the opposite.

KevinD
04-24-2020, 04:09 PM
The $600 + the max Texss unemployment would still be less than half what I normally bring home a paycheck. Remember, I only work 1/2 the year, and each paycheck is for 1 week. That said, if I got the max per week, so 2 weeks on each unemployment payment, otd be ok short term, but still 25-30% less than I normally bring home.

Teh One Who Knocks
04-24-2020, 04:15 PM
Maximum draw + $600 in Colorado is $1,218/week which comes out to $63,336/year.