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View Full Version : Don't Get Caught Holding Dollars When The U.S. Default Arrives



Teh One Who Knocks
07-25-2011, 01:11 PM
By Addison Wiggin | Forbes Magazine


Greece can’t solve a problem of too much debt by taking on even more. We will note, however, that by some measures, the United States is even more deeply in hock than Greece.

Greece’s debt-to-GDP ratio is 143%. America’s is officially 97%. But the $14.3 trillion national debt, stacked up against a $14.7 trillion economy, doesn’t tell the whole story. Look at these numbers:

• $14.3 trillion: “official” national debt

• $5 trillion: Amount Uncle Sam is on the hook for Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac

• $62 trillion: Total liabilities and unfunded obligations for Social Security and Medicare

That doesn’t count the black box of bailouts.

We know how much the Federal Reserve doled out in emergency loans: $16.1 trillion between Dec. 1, 2007, and July 21, 2010. We know that because yesterday the Government Accountability Office completed its first-ever audit of the Fed, made possible largely through the persistence of Rep. Ron Paul (R.-Tex.) making that audit, however incomplete, the law.

What we don’t know is how much of that has been paid back. “We have literally injected about $5.3 trillion,” said Dr. Paul earlier this month during his questioning of Fed chief Ben Bernanke, “and I don't think we got very much for it. The national debt went up $5.1 trillion.”

Bernanke did not challenge those figures.

“To get our overall fiscal gap under control,” writes Boston University professor Laurence Kotlikoff in Bloomberg, “the U.S. must cut spending or raise tax revenue by $20 trillion over the next decade, far more than either the president wants or the House Republicans seek.”

Yep: The latest number we see bruited in Washington is $3 trillion. Whatever the final number -- and there will be a last-minute deal; there always is -- it will be substantially less than $20 trillion over 10 years. The can will be kicked as it keeps getting kicked in Greece.

We note here that the total of outstanding credit default swaps on U.S. Treasuries crested $4.8 billion this week. Uncle Sam has now surpassed Greece in this category.

Measured in year-over-year change, America is number one: Net notional CDS outstanding grew 109%. That means there’s double the bets out there on a U.S. default compared with a year ago.

“You may not know this, but the U.S. has actually defaulted a number of times already,” writes Chris Mayer this morning. He cites five instances:

• 1779: The government was unable to redeem the continental currency issued during the Revolutionary War

• 1782: The colonies defaulted on the debt they took out to pay for the war

• 1862: During the Civil War, the Union failed to redeem dollars for gold at terms stated by the debt contracts

• 1934: FDR defaults on the debt issued to finance World War I, refusing to redeem it in gold. The dollar is devalued 40% against gold

• 1979: A bureaucratic snafu results in interest going unpaid on some small bills.

“With the exception of 1979,” Chris says, “which was mostly due to administrative confusion -- the U.S. simply ran out of money each time. The end result was the dollar had to be devalued. Meaning it lost significant purchasing power.

“My guess is that the U.S. will default again. It may not technically be called that, but the only way for the U.S. to meet its financial obligations is to print a lot of money.”

What does that mean in practical terms? In Greece, professor Savas Robolis at Panteion University in Athens reckons that by 2015, the average Greek employee and pensioner’s standard of living will have fallen 40% compared with 2008.

Even now, Americans are turning to their credit cards to pay for groceries and gas. According to First Data Corp., the volume of gasoline purchases put on credit cards jumped 39% over the last 12 months.

You don’t want to be the average American in a default scenario, whenever it arrives. Ray Dalio, the head of Bridgewater Associates, the world’s biggest hedge fund, puts that day in “late 2012 or early 2013.”

AntZ
07-25-2011, 01:22 PM
I say tax the rich at 95% and the evil corporations at 100% and that will solve all the problems! :cheerlead:

lost in melb.
07-25-2011, 01:51 PM
I say tax the rich at 95% and the evil corporations at 100% and that will solve all the problems! :cheerlead:

:giggle:

FBD
07-25-2011, 04:41 PM
:lol: that wont even cover the 4 billion a day that our debt is growing

PorkChopSandwiches
07-25-2011, 05:00 PM
http://www.straferight.com/photopost/data/500/ds-it-prints-money.gif

Teh One Who Knocks
07-25-2011, 05:24 PM
It just blows my mind that all the assclowns in DC let us get to the point where the country needs to trim $20 TRILLION in a combination of spending cuts and new revenue in the next 10 years. :|

PorkChopSandwiches
07-25-2011, 05:28 PM
they dont care when they are filling their pockets

Teh One Who Knocks
07-25-2011, 05:31 PM
What are they gonna do when us working people have no more money to send to Washington?

PorkChopSandwiches
07-25-2011, 05:32 PM
and the money they got is all worthless

Teh One Who Knocks
07-25-2011, 05:51 PM
*orders 10 cases of AK rounds*

Hal-9000
07-25-2011, 06:42 PM
"1934: FDR defaults on the debt issued to finance World War I, refusing to redeem it in gold. The dollar is devalued 40% against gold"

yikes....does that mean this time around that your dollar may trade at 35 cents?

Shady
07-26-2011, 02:30 AM
It just blows my mind that all the assclowns in DC let us get to the point where the country needs to trim $20 TRILLION in a combination of spending cuts and new revenue in the next 10 years. :|

All this talk of default lately is pissing me off. These fucktards/assclowns have screwed things up so bad by not even agreeing on anything yet. I don't know about the rest of you but if I were to fuck up badly at work and say, put our books into the red, my ass would be fired so quickly that there would be a permanent foot print on my ass from them kicking em out the door. We should do the same to the cockgobblers in Washington.

Noilly Pratt
07-26-2011, 04:46 AM
"1934: FDR defaults on the debt issued to finance World War I, refusing to redeem it in gold. The dollar is devalued 40% against gold"

yikes....does that mean this time around that your dollar may trade at 35 cents?

I don't think so -- but I'm far from a political science major. Most of this stuff now is political grandstanding from what I've read. The U.S. is not at hyper-inflation (200%) yet like Zimbabwe was where we saw 1 million dollar bills being issued, and therefore our Canadian dollar worth that much more.

But, the U.S. is prolonging their fall and unless they figure out this debt crisis, in say 2013 we could see very scary stuff happening with the debt and the economy. We in Canada must care because the U.S. is a major trade partner and while we're better off financially, we will be definitely affected by any fall that the U.S. has, as was shown when their markets took that swan dive before.

If our neighbour to the south doesn't buy our wood, then there's less revenue coming in, and so our bottom line is affected too.

Noilly Pratt
07-26-2011, 05:03 AM
Believe it or not, because of Canadian politicians telling us that we are in a great financial position, the average Canuck is taking on more debt than before, when in actual fact, we should be tightening our belts. We aren't seeing a lot of the indicators that the U.S. has (neighbour's house foreclosed etc.) , so we aren't as concerned.

When the opposite, IMHO, is true. My only debt is my house right now, and that is a good feeling.

FBD
07-26-2011, 01:02 PM
All this talk of default lately is pissing me off. These fucktards/assclowns have screwed things up so bad by not even agreeing on anything yet. I don't know about the rest of you but if I were to fuck up badly at work and say, put our books into the red, my ass would be fired so quickly that there would be a permanent foot print on my ass from them kicking em out the door. We should do the same to the cockgobblers in Washington.

yeah, unfortunately we cant fire the president and congress that quickly! (unfortunately in this case - can we keep our 2011 knowledge and go back to 2005? pretty please?)

unfortunately some cockgobblers just want to make the USA a touchy feely comfortable place for everyone to live harmoniously and not have to put out any effort for their own ass.

Teh One Who Knocks
07-26-2011, 03:13 PM
All this talk of default lately is pissing me off. These fucktards/assclowns have screwed things up so bad by not even agreeing on anything yet. I don't know about the rest of you but if I were to fuck up badly at work and say, put our books into the red, my ass would be fired so quickly that there would be a permanent foot print on my ass from them kicking em out the door. We should do the same to the cockgobblers in Washington.

Couldn't agree more....and now they have turned the whole thing into a fucking Mexican standoff. Just get a deal done FFS! :rant:

AntZ
07-26-2011, 03:15 PM
I laughed out load at how this was portrayed on EuroNews this morning. They show Obama doing his finger snapping bounce walk to the lectern, then it cuts to him majestically saying that Congress needs to stop the deadlock and come together so the American people won't be irreparably hurt by a default. Then the voice-over says that "Democrats want to raise taxes on the rich and the Republicans want to cut spending on welfare and other social programs" Ohhhhhh! so that's what the deadlock is?? I didn't realize until now, those damn Republicans are only trying to protect their RICH buddies, and the Democrats are only trying to protect the weak and less fortunate! :(

Muddy
07-26-2011, 04:44 PM
I heard Boehner say that they were going to take the gang of 6 deal and try and use that next..

FBD
07-26-2011, 06:41 PM
I laughed out load at how this was portrayed on EuroNews this morning. They show Obama doing his finger snapping bounce walk to the lectern, then it cuts to him majestically saying that Congress needs to stop the deadlock and come together so the American people won't be irreparably hurt by a default. Then the voice-over says that "Democrats want to raise taxes on the rich and the Republicans want to cut spending on welfare and other social programs" Ohhhhhh! so that's what the deadlock is?? I didn't realize until now, those damn Republicans are only trying to protect their RICH buddies, and the Democrats are only trying to protect the weak and less fortunate! :(

If you get your news spoon fed from Obama, that's entirely correct :lol:

I honestly dont see any real compromise. The democrats have gone fo far off the deep end with spending that anything remotely sane they decry as radical!

This is nothing more than political posturing from the Obama admin. They could have averted this issue a hundred times over before it became "a crisis" yet they did nothing about it, now they want to blame republican obstruction to the blank check wallet? :roll:

DeMint is correct - there's not going to be much meaningful done while obummer is clutching his residency.