Frightening Statistics from USA

[The Monk]

https://i.imgur.com/v0LL8kN.png

Prison Policy.org (https://www.prisonpolicy.org/blog/2020/01/16/percent-incarcerated/)


Countries with the largest number of prisoners per 100,000 of the national population, as of May 2021

https://i.imgur.com/XV3Gagt.jpg


Statista (https://www.statista.com/statistics/262962/countries-with-the-most-prisoners-per-100-000-inhabitants/)


Is this the results due to the "Three Strikes" rule?

[DemonGeminiX]

We're just better at finding the criminals in our country than other countries are at finding the criminals in theirs.

[lost in melb.]

Or you're great at creating criminals and keeping them criminal :dunno:

[DemonGeminiX]

Or you're great at creating criminals and keeping them criminal :dunno:

We don't create criminals. People make their own decisions, man. We still have that freedom in this nation.

[lost in melb.]

We don't create criminals. People make their own decisions, man. We still have that freedom in this nation.

Actually, if you know anything about child development that's very partially correct. There's good money in keeping these prisons going

[DemonGeminiX]

Actually, if you know anything about child development that's very partially correct. There's good money in keeping these prisons going

I took a human development class a long time ago. I don't think it delved into societal aspects.

I've never been a fan of the for-profit prison system. I believe it takes rehabilitation out of the equation. However, I can't really speak to it in detail. This is RBP's territory and I'll defer to him.

[The Monk]

I'm not sure if society creates criminals but I do think that many criminals are that way in response to their society.

[lost in melb.]

I took a human development class a long time ago. I don't think it delved into societal aspects.

I've never been a fan of the for-profit prison system. I believe it takes rehabilitation out of the equation. However, I can't really speak to it in detail. This is RBP's territory and I'll defer to him.

On this we agree.

[lost in melb.]

I'm not sure if society creates criminals but I do think that many criminals are that way in response to their society.

The problem is the human brain can't really develop sideways. If the pathways weren't developed as a child beyond a certain point you can't make them. Exercise he demands something as an adult that the physiology can't match, then you have a problem. It actually takes incredible mental dexterity to get by let alone be happy in this world that we have created.

[Teh One Who Knocks]

Only one country in the entire world was founded as a prison colony, to the best of my knowledge. I wonder which country that is? :-k















:banana:

:outtahere:

[Griffin]

We don't create criminals. People make their own decisions, man. We still have that freedom in this nation.

Explain that to the political prisoners being held for Pelosis' "insurrection."

[lost in melb.]

Only one country in the entire world was founded as a prison colony, to the best of my knowledge. I wonder which country that is? :-k















:banana:

:outtahere:

Only 20% of current Australians are descended from convicts :hand:

[Muddy]

We don't create criminals. People make their own decisions, man. We still have that freedom in this nation.

Freedom is a double edged sword... Our citizens have enough freedom to hang themselves with it if they choose.

[DemonGeminiX]

Freedom is a double edged sword... Our citizens have enough freedom to hang themselves with it if they choose.

But that's the point, isn't it? That's what freedom is in a society based on law and order. We're free, but we agree to live by a set of shared values and laws governing based on those basic values. And if one of us breaks the law, then we agree that there should be a punishment for it. We're free to choose to do as we wish, but if we break the law that we all agreed to live by then we get called on it. That's what makes society a civil society.

[Teh One Who Knocks]

Only 20% of current Australians are descended from convicts :hand:

*citation needed


:nana:

[Pony]

*citation needed


:nana:

:-k

https://i.imgur.com/EJ2TyTp.jpg

[Teh One Who Knocks]

:-k

https://i.imgur.com/EJ2TyTp.jpgYou, Sir, win the internet for today :tup:

[Pony]

:cheers:

[Muddy]

I have definitely spent some time cruising in one of those..

[The Monk]

Only one country in the entire world was founded as a prison colony, to the best of my knowledge. I wonder which country that is? :-k















:banana:

:outtahere:



You're going to be wrong if you think it was Australia. Guess why Australia was settled?

[RBP]

Only 20% of current Australians are descended from convicts :hand:

Far more then the US population descended from slaves. Interesting.

As to the larger point, take out the dictatorships because they kill dissidents. The prison populations are those they want alive. Then consider conditions in those prisons. I dismiss the for profit argument because they expenses are tax payer dollars regardless. Are there exceptions for corrupt judges? of course.

To Monk's question, yes, a lot is related to the 1993 crime bill from Clinton, Indirectly, a lot is related to generational welfare and ghetto culture (that does have roots in historical racism), but prison is also highly normalized in ghetto culture, even providing street cred. Mental health funding is cut as with all social services, and the problem transfers to corrections. For example, the largest single inpatient mental health facility is a jail or prison in at least 40 states.

I don't know the answer, it's a difficult and complex answer and any explanation that is simple is based in ideology.

[RBP]

You're going to be wrong if you think it was Australia. Guess why Australia was settled?

We don't care about your "facts" about your own country. The media has told us what to believe, so anything you have to say is conspiracy theory.

[lost in melb.]

Far more then the US population descended from slaves. Interesting.

As to the larger point, take out the dictatorships because they kill dissidents. The prison populations are those they want alive. Then consider conditions in those prisons. I dismiss the for profit argument because they expenses are tax payer dollars regardless. Are there exceptions for corrupt judges? of course.

To Monk's question, yes, a lot is related to the 1993 crime bill from Clinton, Indirectly, a lot is related to generational welfare and ghetto culture (that does have roots in historical racism), but prison is also highly normalized in ghetto culture, even providing street cred. Mental health funding is cut as with all social services, and the problem transfers to corrections. For example, the largest single inpatient mental health facility is a jail or prison in at least 40 states.

I don't know the answer, it's a difficult and complex answer and any explanation that is simple is based in ideology.

I will agree that it would be preferable to stay in a US prison than a third world country.

The 1993 crime bill that Biden also signed? ;) Unbelievable when you consider their positions now.

I think your third paragraph pretty much nails it. It's very easy for another Western country to lecture the US on how to handle their prisoners/crime situation but I've learnt slowly and painfully that whatever solutions we have can't simply be mirrored to the US. You have a unique topology. Leniency, compassion and welfare are more likely to be taking advantage of in the US.

My personal view is that there is too large a stepping stone between being a fully functional citizen who pays taxes and earns their keep and being a dependent on the state. This is for those who had a difficult upbringing and are trying to get on the right track. I think the main barrier to implementing something that works is more about politics and societies judgements/perceptions than the technicalities. It's a little bit like how we have enough food to feed the world but somehow people are starving.

I think you know more about the mental health issue than me. I'm always for trying to help 'em as early as possible but this is hard when you have a hands-off approach to parenting intervention from the state.

[The Monk]

We don't care about your "facts" about your own country. The media has told us what to believe, so anything you have to say is conspiracy theory.

The result of the war of independence when Britain lost America as a colony, they had to look elsewhere for a penal settlement and that then became Australia.


With the passage of the Transportation Act 1717, the British government initiated the penal transportation of indentured servants to Britain's colonies in the Americas. British merchants would be in charge of transporting the convicts across the Atlantic, where in the colonies their indentures would be auctioned off to planters. Many of the indentured servants were sentenced to seven year terms, which gave rise to the colloquial term "His Majesty's Seven-Year Passengers". It is estimated that some 50,000 British convicts were sent to the Americas this way, and the majority landed in the Chesapeake Colonies of Maryland and Virginia. Transported convicts represented perhaps one-quarter of Britons that left the country during the 18th century. The colony of Georgia, for example, was first founded by James Edward Oglethorpe who originally intended to use prisoners taken largely from debtors' prisons, creating a "Debtor's Colony," where the prisoners could learn trades and work off their debts. Even though this largely failed, the idea that the state was founded as a penal colony has persisted, both in popular history and local folklore.

When that avenue closed after the outbreak of American Revolutionary War in 1776, British prisons started to become overcrowded. Since immediate stopgap measures proved themselves ineffective, in 1785 Britain decided to use parts of what is now known as Australia as penal settlements. Leaving Portsmouth, England on the 13th of May 1787, the First Fleet transported the first ~800 convicts and ~250 marines to Botany Bay. Australian penal colonies in late 18th century included Norfolk Island and New South Wales, and in early 19th century also Van Diemen's Land (Tasmania) and Moreton Bay (Queensland).

[lost in melb.]

So we got American offcuts?? Thanks for that tidbit, the monk...

:dumbfounded:

[Griffin]

We don't care about your "facts" about your own country. The media has told us what to believe, so anything you have to say is conspiracy theory.

https://media.istockphoto.com/photos/perfect-100-percent-grade-picture-id607884310

[Muddy]

Far more then the US population descended from slaves. Interesting.

As to the larger point, take out the dictatorships because they kill dissidents. The prison populations are those they want alive. Then consider conditions in those prisons. I dismiss the for profit argument because they expenses are tax payer dollars regardless. Are there exceptions for corrupt judges? of course.

To Monk's question, yes, a lot is related to the 1993 crime bill from Clinton, Indirectly, a lot is related to generational welfare and ghetto culture (that does have roots in historical racism), but prison is also highly normalized in ghetto culture, even providing street cred. Mental health funding is cut as with all social services, and the problem transfers to corrections. For example, the largest single inpatient mental health facility is a jail or prison in at least 40 states.

I don't know the answer, it's a difficult and complex answer and any explanation that is simple is based in ideology.

I love when my man Rainbow comes in speaking that logic...

[deebakes]

:wank: