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View Full Version : Visa, Mastercard, AmEx to start categorizing gun shop sales to track purchases



Teh One Who Knocks
09-13-2022, 10:23 AM
By KEN SWEET - The Associated Press


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NEW YORK (AP) — Payment processor Visa Inc. said Saturday that it plans to start separately categorizing sales at gun shops, a major win for gun control advocates who say it will help better track suspicious surges of gun sales that could be a prelude to a mass shooting.

But the decision by Visa, the world’s largest payment processor, will likely provoke the ire of gun rights advocates and gun lobbyists, who have argued that categorizing gun sales would unfairly flag an industry when most sales do not lead to mass shootings. It joins Mastercard and American Express, which also said they plan to move forward with categorizing gun shop sales.

Visa said it would adopt the International Organization for Standardization’s new merchant code for gun sales, which was announced on Friday. Until Friday, gun store sales were considered “general merchandise.”

“Following ISO’s decision to establish a new merchant category code, Visa will proceed with next steps, while ensuring we protect all legal commerce on the Visa network in accordance with our long-standing rules,” the payment processor said in a statement.

Visa’s adoption is significant as the largest payment network, and with Mastercard and AmeEx, will likely put pressure on the banks as the card issuers to adopt the standard as well. Visa acts as a middleman between merchants and banks, and it will be up to banks to decide whether they will allow sales at gun stores to happen on their issued cards.

Gun control advocates had gained significant wins on this front in recent weeks. New York City officials and pension funds had pressured the ISO and banks to adopt this code.

Two of the country’s largest public pension funds, in California and New York, have been pressing the country’s largest credit card firms to establish sales codes specifically for firearm-related sales that could flag suspicious purchases or more easily trace how guns and ammunition are sold.

Merchant category codes now exist for almost every kind of purchase, including those made at supermarkets, clothing stores, coffee shops and many other retailers.

“When you buy an airline ticket or pay for your groceries, your credit card company has a special code for those retailers. It’s just common sense that we have the same policies in place for gun and ammunition stores,” said New York City Mayor Eric Adams, a former police captain who blames the proliferation of guns for his city’s deadly violence.

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The city’s comptroller, Brad Lander, said it made moral and financial sense as a tool to push back against gun violence.

“Unfortunately, the credit card companies have failed to support this simple, practical, potentially lifesaving tool. The time has come for them to do so,” Lander said recently, before Visa and others had adopted the move.

Lander is a trustee of the New York City Employees’ Retirement System, Teachers’ Retirement System and Board of Education Retirement System — which together own 667,200 shares in American Express valued at approximately $92.49 million; 1.1 million shares in MasterCard valued at approximately $347.59 million; and 1.85 million shares in Visa valued at approximately $363.86 million.

The pension funds and gun control advocates argue that creating a merchant category code for standalone firearm and ammunition stores could aid in the battle against gun violence. A week before the mass shooting at the Pulse Nightclub in Orlando, Florida, where 49 people died after a shooter opened fire in 2016, the assailant used credit cards to buy more than $26,000 worth of guns and ammunition, including purchases at a stand-alone gun retailer.

Gun rights advocates argue that tracking sales at gun stores would unfairly target legal gun purchases, since merchant codes just track the type of merchant where the credit or debit card is used, not the actual items purchased. A sale of a gun safe, worth thousands of dollars and an item considered part of responsible gun ownership, could be seen as a just a large purchase at a gun shop.

“The (industry’s) decision to create a firearm specific code is nothing more than a capitulation to anti-gun politicians and activists bent on eroding the rights of law-abiding Americans one transaction at a time,” said Lars Dalseide, a spokesman for the National Rifle Association.

Over the years, public pension funds have used their extensive investment portfolios to influence public policy and the market place.

The California teacher’s fund, the second largest pension fund in the country, has long taken aim on the gun industry. It has divested its holdings from gun manufacturers and has sought to persuade some retailers from selling guns.

Four years ago, the teacher’s fund made guns a key initiative. It called for background checks and called on retailers “monitor irregularities at the point of sale, to record all firearm sales, to audit firearms inventory on a regular basis, and to proactively assist law enforcement.”

PorkChopSandwiches
09-13-2022, 02:56 PM
outrageous, cash it is

DemonGeminiX
09-13-2022, 07:55 PM
The problem is, how to pay cash for online purchases? I buy ammo online exclusively.

PorkChopSandwiches
09-13-2022, 08:05 PM
CA put a stop to that, I used to get a great deal online, now I can't. But, I guess you could use a prepaid card that doesn't have your name associated with it

Pony
09-13-2022, 11:11 PM
I'm sure it will go over just fine when they start beating on doors to ask why you spent x amount at a gun shop.

deebakes
09-14-2022, 01:57 AM
:excellent:

Godfather
09-14-2022, 02:58 AM
Maybe I'm naive but vendor categories have been a thing forever up here so I dont see a problem? My bank automatically gives me a graph of where I'm spending (i.e. grocery, clothing, restaurants, etc.). It's handy and at least their sorta sharing the data they already know and probably sell anyways :lol:

Teh One Who Knocks
09-14-2022, 10:29 AM
Maybe I'm naive but vendor categories have been a thing forever up here so I dont see a problem? My bank automatically gives me a graph of where I'm spending (i.e. grocery, clothing, restaurants, etc.). It's handy and at least their sorta sharing the data they already know and probably sell anyways :lol:

The issue isn't about coding purchases, they have done it down here forever too, the issue is that they are now adding a brand new code specifically for firearms and ammo purchases so they can specifically track people buying these items. I'm not sure how the purchases were coded before, maybe under the general code for 'sporting goods' or something, but now they will have their own specific category and it can be directly traced back to you. It's none of the government's business what I spend my money on when I am making completely legal purchases.

Teh One Who Knocks
09-15-2022, 11:51 AM
By John Rigolizzo - The Daily Wire


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More than 100 House Republicans are demanding answers from major credit card companies over the controversial decision to categorize gun sales.

In letters to the CEOs of Visa, MasterCard, and American Express, Rep. Elise Stefanik (R-NY) and House Republicans demanded the companies answer questions about their decision to adopt new Merchant Category Codes (MCCs) set by the International Organization for Standardization (ISO) that would categorize gun purchases separately from other purchases. The Republican members asked the creditors to provide their prospective standards to the public, and questioned whether categorizing gun purchases and flagging law enforcement was an attempt to skirt federal law by effectively creating a gun registry.

“As you know, the ISO uses four-digit codes known as MCCs to classify merchants and businesses by the type of goods or services provided,” the members began. “There were already two MCCs that captured legal firearm sales, 5999 for Miscellaneous Retail Stores and 5941 for Sporting Goods Stores.”

In July 2021, the left-wing activist banking firm Amalgamated Bank applied for the ISO to adopt a separate Category Code for firearm dealers. The ISO rejected the application in October, along with an appeal filed in November 2021, the Republican members noted. The ISO said at the time that such a narrow category would fail to capture gun sales at sporting goods stores and would place an undue burden on small firearm retailers.

Both Visa and American Express raised concerns about the effort to establish a firearm-specific MCC. “Specific MCC [codes] in narrow [retail] areas are challenging,” an employee from American Express told CBS News in September. “Managing long lists of narrowly defined MCCs can become burdensome if there isn’t a compelling reason for the long list.”

Visa also urged caution, warning against financial institutions acting as moral arbiters. “We believe that asking payment networks to serve as a moral authority by deciding which legal goods can or cannot be purchased sets a dangerous precedent,” the company wrote in a letter to Congressional Democrats who pushed for the credit card companies to adopt the new standard, via CBS.

Amalgamated Bank reapplied for the new MCC in June of this year. This time, the ISO relented, adopting the new MCC. Amalgamated Bank subsequently “stated its intent to utilize software to flag allegedly suspicious purchases made by Americans exercising their Second Amendment rights and file these red flags with law enforcement,” the lawmakers noted. “Of course, there is no accepted, consistent, scientific, or legitimate way to determine from this data what is and what is not a ‘suspicious’ purchase. A gun control advocate could view any desire to own or obtain a firearm as per se suspicious. Instead, this is a transparent attempt to chill the exercise of constitutionally protected rights and to circumvent existing legal restrictions on the creation of firearm registries by the government.”

The lawmakers then asked the credit card giants to answer questions about their intentions in adopting the new standards:


Whether the companies actually support the ISO’s decision to create the new MCC, and if so, why the companies changed their view.
What criteria the companies will use to flag transactions for suspicious activity; how these criteria were devised, and what evidence there is to show that they will only focus on criminal intent and not on lawful purchases; and whether the companies will make these criteria public and share them with their cardholders.
How the companies will inform users about the impacts of implementing the policy; and whether they will notify and solicit feedback from customers.
Whether the companies will notify customers when their lawful transactions have been flagged and sent to law enforcement; if not, why they believe that it is not important to notify the customer.
Whether the companies have considered the “reputational risks and the possible implications for your
fiduciary duties to shareholders” of potentially alienating a sizable number of the 100 million gun owners in the United States and the millions of prospective and potential gun buyers.
If the companies are aware this move could be perceived as an attempt to circumvent federal law by effectively creating a national firearm registry.
Whether the companies solicited input from the firearm industry before making this decision.
Whether the companies did their due diligence, including considering DOJ statistics, which show that a very small percentage of those who commit crimes with guns purchase them at gun stores subject to the new rules.

A total of 101 House Republicans signed the letter.