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AntZ
08-06-2011, 09:48 AM
U.S. Loses AAA Credit Rating From S&P

Published August 06, 2011 | FoxNews.com



The United States has lost its sterling credit rating.

Credit rating agency Standard & Poor's on Friday lowered the nation's AAA rating for the first time since granting it in 1917. The move came less than a week after a gridlocked Congress finally agreed to spending cuts that would reduce the debt by more than $2 trillion -- a tumultuous process that contributed to convulsions in financial markets. The promised cuts were not enough to satisfy S&P.

The drop in the rating by one notch to AA-plus was telegraphed as a possibility back in April. The three main credit agencies, which also include Moody's Investor Service and Fitch, had warned during the budget fight that if Congress did not cut spending far enough, the country faced a downgrade. Moody's said it was keeping its AAA rating on the nation's debt, but that it might still lower it.

Speaker John Boehner issued a statement saying that the downgrade is "the latest consequence of overspending by Washington."

One of the biggest questions after the downgrade was what impact it would have on already nervous investors. While the downgrade was not a surprise, some selling is expected when stock trading resumes Monday morning. The Dow Jones industrial average fell 699 points this week, the biggest weekly point drop since October 2008.

"I think we will have a knee-jerk reaction on Monday," said Jack Ablin, chief investment officer at Harris Private Bank.

But any losses might be short-lived. The threat of a downgrade is likely already reflected in the plunge in stocks this week, said Harvey Neiman, a portfolio manager of the Neiman Large Cap Value Fund.

"The market's already been shaken out," Neiman said. "It knew it was coming."

One fear in the market has been that a downgrade would scare buyers away from U.S. debt. If that were to happen, the interest rate paid on U.S. bonds, notes and bills would have to rise to attract buyers. And that could lead to higher borrowing rates for consumers, since the rates on mortgages and other loans are pegged to the yield on Treasury securities.

However, even without an AAA rating from S&P, U.S. debt is seen as one of the safest investments in the world. And investors clearly weren't scared away this week. While stocks were plunging, investors were buying Treasurys and driving up their prices. The yield on the 10-year Treasury note, which falls when the price rises, fell to a low of 2.39 percent on Thursday from 2.75 percent Monday.

A study by JPMorgan Chase found that there has been a slight rise in rates when countries lost an AAA rating. In 1998, S&P lowered ratings for Belgium, Italy and Spain. A week later, their 10-year rates had barely moved.

The government fought the downgrade. Administration sources familiar with the discussions said the S&P analysis was fundamentally flawed. They spoke on condition of anonymity because they weren't authorized to discuss the matter publicly. S&P had sent the administration a draft document in the early afternoon Friday and the administration, after examining the numbers, challenged the analysis.

S&P said that in addition to the downgrade, it is issuing a negative outlook, meaning that there was a chance it will lower the rating further within the next two years. It said such a downgrade, to AA, would occur if the agency sees smaller reductions in spending than Congress and the administration have agreed to make, higher interest rates or new fiscal pressures during this period.

In its statement, S&P said that it had changed its view "of the difficulties of bridging the gulf between the political parties" over a credible deficit reduction plan.

S&P said it was now "pessimistic about the capacity of Congress and the administration to be able to leverage their agreement this week into a broader fiscal consolidation plan that stabilizes the government's debt dynamics anytime soon."

Senate Democratic Leader Harry Reid said the credit downgrade showed the need for a "balanced approach to deficit reduction that combines spending cuts with revenue-raising measures."

GOP Rep. Jack Kingston has called on Congress to reconvene to fix the debt crisis, saying the downgrade "confirms my belief that the debt ceiling increase signed into law this week does not go far enough to change the nation's fiscal trajectory."

The Federal Reserve and other U.S. regulators said in a joint statement that S&P's action should not have any impact on how banks and other financial institutions assess the riskiness of Treasurys or other securities guaranteed by the U.S. government. The statement was issued to make sure banks did not feel that the downgrade would affect the amount of capital that regulators require the banks to hold against possible losses.

Before leaving for a weekend at Camp David, President Barack Obama met with Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner in the Oval Office late Friday afternoon.

The downgrade is likely to have little to no impact on how the United States finances its borrowing, through the sale of Treasury bonds, bills and notes. This week's buying proves that.

"Investors have voted and are saying the U.S. is going to pay them," said Mark Zandi, chief economist of Moody's Analytics. "U.S. Treasurys are still the gold standard." He noted that neither his parent organization, Moody's, nor Fitch, the other of the three major rating agencies, have downgraded U.S. debt.

Japan had its ratings cut a decade ago to AA, and it didn't have much lasting impact. The credit ratings of both Canada and Australia have also been downgraded over time, without much lasting damage.

"I don't think it's going to amount to a lot," said Peter Morici, a University of Maryland business economist.

Still, he said, "The United States deserves to have this happen," because of its clumsy handling of fiscal policy.


______________________________________________

And we find out that the other day when all the stock markets were in a nose dive, Obama partied and danced into the night! :cheerlead: Even if it was his birthday, this child is incapable of common sense! :roll:

I wonder if someone gave him a fiddle to play? :-k




POLITICO EXCLUSIVE -- The President’s private 50th birthday bash, not listed on his public schedule: His gift to the press corps was a travel/photo lid shortly after 4 p.m., prompting what pooler Julie Mason called “general cheering in WH workspace.” An hour later, the party started…

--… with dinner in the Rose Garden, accompanied by “The President’s Own” United States Marine Band. Then the First Lady and his daughters presented POTUS with a cake, and everyone moved into the East Room for performances that included R&B singer Ledisi, and Herbie Hancock. Stevie Wonder came up at the end and sang a medley ending in “Signed, Sealed, Delivered I’m Yours.” DJ Cassidy played Motown, hip hop, and ’70s and ’80s R&B.

--The president asked everyone to dance -- and they did!

--DINNER: BBQ chicken, ribs, hamburgers, hot dogs, pasta, salad.

--DESSERT: apple, peach, huckleberry and cherry pies; chocolate cake.

--GUESTS: Al Sharpton, Patrick Gaspard, UBS Investment Bank President Robert Wolf, FCC Chair Julius Genachowski, Leader Nancy and Paul Pelosi, Secretary Tim Geithner, Secretary Arne Duncan, U.S. Trade Rep. Ron Kirk, Secretary Hillary Clinton, Attorney General Eric Holder, Secretary Kathleen Sebelius, Rep./DNC Chair Debbie Wasserman Schultz, former Virginia Gov. and DNC Chair Tim Kaine, Anita Dunn and Bob Bauer, Robert Gibbs, David Axelrod, David Plouffe, Valerie Jarrett, Michael Strautmanis, Pete Rouse, Bill Daley, Deputy Chief of Staff Alyssa Mastromonaco, Denis McDonough, John Brennan, Rahm Emanuel, Tina Tchen, White House chef Sam Kass, Julianna Smoot, Marty Nesbitt, Eric Whitaker, Linda Douglass, and many more.

--CELEBS: Jay-Z, Hill Harper, Chris Rock, Charles Barkley, Steve Harvey, Tom Hanks and Rita Wilson, Grant Hill, Gayle King.

--Also present: Chicago pals, law-school friends, donors – and lots of kids of friends, who stole the show by doing dance routines to the hip-hop songs, in the center of the East Room.


http://www.politico.com/playbook/

Yt Trash
08-06-2011, 01:35 PM
http://i.imgur.com/Sxyg3.jpg

way to break the stereotype....




sorry couldn't resist.:dance:

deebakes
08-06-2011, 02:29 PM
:rip:

FBD
08-06-2011, 04:14 PM
Its every bit as much the failure of fookin huge government, poor governance, and the general aims of the current crop of progressive 'democrats' the country's inflicted with as it is Obama's fault.

Didnt think I'd be sticking up for him did ya :razz:

Just kidding, he doesnt have a farkin clue of what to do with a country as leader aside from rape the private sector to buy votes :dance:

Godfather
08-06-2011, 04:17 PM
Tell those bunch of assholes y'all call politicians to fix it right meow. :x I'm losing money here

PorkChopSandwiches
08-06-2011, 04:41 PM
Its all going to come crumbling down

Teh One Who Knocks
08-06-2011, 04:43 PM
Its all going to come crumbling down


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PErUiAyVoGc&ob=av2e

Hugh_Janus
08-07-2011, 06:31 PM
united sttes of america?
united states of merica?
united states of americ?

which would y'all now prefer to be known as? :-k

Loser
08-07-2011, 08:08 PM
united sttes of america?
united states of merica?
united states of americ?

which would y'all now prefer to be known as? :-k

The armpit of the world is what I call it.

Teh One Who Knocks
08-07-2011, 08:19 PM
The armpit of the world is what I call it.

Go live in Nigeria for a year and then get back to me on that opinion ;)

lost in melb.
08-08-2011, 09:11 AM
So let me get this straight. Despite racking up 14.5 Trillion in debt and having no feasible way to pay it, America was allowed to keep an AAA+ credit rating? And now the US has now performed so poorly that it's fallen to AA+? :)

FBD
08-08-2011, 11:01 AM
So let me get this straight. Despite racking up 14.5 Trillion in debt and having no feasible way to pay it given the trajectories supported by most political patrons, America was allowed to keep an AAA+ credit rating simply because of it being a freakin juggernaut. And now the US realized what a whacked out bunch of lefites want for the country and voted in a bunch of people that would try to pull the e-brake, but given that enough of the country wasnt convinced or they simply want their gravy, they gave the Dems the senate again - and with that, efforts at restraining the slippery slope have shown that most Democrats really arent even interested in so much as reducing the rate of increase of spending in the least, nevermind actually worrying about what we can or cant pay for - and somebody had to say something to let the fools who keep electing spendthrifts know that the US "has now performed so poorly" that it's fallen to AA+? :)


fixed :thumbsup:

Acid Trip
08-08-2011, 01:16 PM
Edwards and Bawney Fwank are already blaming the Tea party. The Tea party has never run this country and yet they are the first to be blamed. Typical D.C. The new kid in school is always the easiest to pick on. They have nothing left in their bag of tricks except the blame game.

AntZ
08-08-2011, 02:34 PM
Edwards and Bawney Fwank are already blaming the Tea party. The Tea party has never run this country and yet they are the first to be blamed. Typical D.C. The new kid in school is always the easiest to pick on. They have nothing left in their bag of tricks except the blame game.

You should see the way it keeps getting played up here in Europe, I crack up everyday!

Yesterday they played Obama scolding Congress for not working harder and acting quicker, and done from the point of view of being above all the petty fighting and waiting along side the American public for results! Then they say that the Republicans are now ONLY trying to score political points by laying blame! The next story is the country is breathing a sigh of relief that Geithner decided to stay!! And his "expertise" is so needed, especially now! :lol:

This whole attacking of the tea party is the same as tearing up the checkbook and cutting up the credit cards of some shopaholic that's past due with every bill and behind on the rent. Then that person blames the person that tore up the checkbook and cards because now they have no way of paying the rent or bills!

Arkady Renko
08-08-2011, 02:59 PM
the way I see it, the Tea PArty people did the right thing for the wrong reasons. They prevented congress and the government from just continuing the way they had been going for decades, but I can't imagine that the US will ever manage to reduce their insane debt load without any tax raises. they'll have to put massive, painful reductions of budget and extra-budget expenses into effect, and soon, and increase taxes at the same time. Otherwise the US might enter into a downward spiral just like some of the european near-failures.

FBD
08-08-2011, 04:36 PM
:lol: for the wrong reasons? hehehehehe

a.k.a. they should have caved?

sometimes you've got to put your foot down when you're doing a crack addict intervention.

Arkady Renko
08-09-2011, 11:37 AM
for the wrong reasons as in raising unrealistic expectations. Do you seriously believe that the enormous debt load can ever be significantly reduced without any tax increases?

FBD
08-09-2011, 11:46 AM
Do you seriously believe the shitty economy is going to improve in the least with higher tax rates?

There's plenty of bullets left, but they all make too much sense and are diametrically opposed to what Obama believes in.

Its been said before, I'll say it again, we're getting peanuts for a recovery until the day Obama gets voted out. Unless of course Hillary manages to run and beat him and we somehow elect her dumb ass, then find out after the fact that she aint gonna be any different - still a Progressive in a Democrat's clothing.

Acid Trip
08-09-2011, 01:06 PM
Do you seriously believe the shitty economy is going to improve in the least with higher tax rates?

There's plenty of bullets left, but they all make too much sense and are diametrically opposed to what Obama believes in.

Its been said before, I'll say it again, we're getting peanuts for a recovery until the day Obama gets voted out. Unless of course Hillary manages to run and beat him and we somehow elect her dumb ass, then find out after the fact that she aint gonna be any different - still a Progressive in a Democrat's clothing.

Silly FBD. Don't you know that all the cool countries tax themselves to prosperity? The government knows how to spend your money better than you do. Geez, the nerve of you conservatives! Always trying to kill grandma and shit.

Arkady Renko
08-09-2011, 02:06 PM
Silly FBD. Don't you know that all the cool countries tax themselves to prosperity? The government knows how to spend your money better than you do. Geez, the nerve of you conservatives! Always trying to kill grandma and shit.

there's no direct connection between the level of taxation and overall wealth. Places like the scandinavian countries, the Netherlands and Austria do very well with their high income tax and relatively high tax tariffs overall, while some other places like Switzerland, Singapore, Canada and Australia prosper nicely with moderate or low tax levels. It's all in the quality of government.

As for paying back the US' debt - seriously, how do you expect the government to get the job done? Let's assume they fix social security magically, somehow, and on top of that recduce the state's expenses to match tax revenue. Still leaves the double-digit-trillions to pay back, with certainly over 500 billions of interest alone, every year. Where's all that money supposed to come from?

Muddy
08-09-2011, 02:12 PM
Go ahead and cut entitlements so we can have a 4 or 5 flash mobs in every city, every day...

Arkady Renko
08-09-2011, 02:21 PM
Go ahead and cut entitlements so we can have a 4 or 5 flash mobs in every city, every day...

that's just the thing, the state's finances in the US are so fucked up because everyone asks what the state can do for them and noone cares to do anything for the state. The ghetto proletariat want their handouts, unions want high minimum wages, rich folks want their deluxe tax breaks, the middle class wants midsize tax breaks, the military sector wants a few trillion over the next few years because all those shiny toys they bought with the last trillions have become a little old by now...cuts must hit every group alike or else nobody will accept them. Clever lobbyists like groper norrquist (not sure how to speel the guy) who serve the richest of the rich have taken most of the conservative politicians hostage for their masters' personal interests, while most of the democratic party has been hijacked by the handout people. No-one gives a shit about the common good anymore.

Muddy
08-09-2011, 02:27 PM
that's just the thing, the state's finances in the US are so fucked up because everyone asks what the state can do for them and noone cares to do anything for the state. The ghetto proletariat want their handouts, unions want high minimum wages, rich folks want their deluxe tax breaks, the middle class wants midsize tax breaks, the military sector wants a few trillion over the next few years because all those shiny toys they bought with the last trillions have become a little old by now...cuts must hit every group alike or else nobody will accept them. Clever lobbyists like groper norrquist (not sure how to speel the guy) who serve the richest of the rich have taken most of the conservative politicians hostage for their masters' personal interests, while most of the democratic party has been hijacked by the handout people. No-one gives a shit about the common good anymore.

I think you may have stumbled on to something, Watson.. :)

Teh One Who Knocks
08-09-2011, 02:28 PM
No-one gives a shit about the common good anymore.

I do :sad2:

Acid Trip
08-09-2011, 03:05 PM
there's no direct connection between the level of taxation and overall wealth. Places like the scandinavian countries, the Netherlands and Austria do very well with their high income tax and relatively high tax tariffs overall, while some other places like Switzerland, Singapore, Canada and Australia prosper nicely with moderate or low tax levels. It's all in the quality of government.

As for paying back the US' debt - seriously, how do you expect the government to get the job done? Let's assume they fix social security magically, somehow, and on top of that recduce the state's expenses to match tax revenue. Still leaves the double-digit-trillions to pay back, with certainly over 500 billions of interest alone, every year. Where's all that money supposed to come from?

Raising taxes is not the answer. Our tax code is fucked and highly biased. We need to lower rates and eliminate deductions. If you just let them raise taxes we'll never fix the fundamental flaw of a broken tax code. Make sense?

I'm among the group who ask why 50% of the population pays NO FEDERAL INCOME TAXES yet they want to raise them on me because I'm successful and work for a living. Give me a fucking break.

Arkady Renko
08-09-2011, 03:15 PM
I do :sad2:

idealists...pfffft. :nana:


Raising taxes is not the answer. Our tax code is fucked and highly biased. We need to lower rates and eliminate deductions. If you just let them raise taxes we'll never fix the fundamental flaw of a broken tax code. Make sense?

I'm among the group who ask why 50% of the population pays NO FEDERAL INCOME TAXES yet they want to raise them on me because I'm successful and work for a living. Give me a fucking break.

OK, let me be a little more specific: the overall tax revenue needs to increase or else it'll be impossible to pay back all that debt. How you achieve that is cetainly a highly complicated issue on itself.

lost in melb.
08-09-2011, 03:17 PM
fixed :thumbsup:

HA, why thank you!


the way I see it, the Tea PArty people did the right thing for the wrong reasons. They prevented congress and the government from just continuing the way they had been going for decades, but I can't imagine that the US will ever manage to reduce their insane debt load without any tax raises. they'll have to put massive, painful reductions of budget and extra-budget expenses into effect, and soon, and increase taxes at the same time. Otherwise the US might enter into a downward spiral just like some of the european near-failures.

I think you're right, the whole thing needs to crash. The US needs an awakening.

The thing is though, the US won't be allowed to die ( and be reborn ) gracefully, too much of the world is riding on its coat tails...


Raising taxes is not the answer. Our tax code is fucked and highly biased. We need to lower rates and eliminate deductions. If you just let them raise taxes we'll never fix the fundamental flaw of a broken tax code. Make sense?



Don't the deductions allow you to have an overall lower tax rate though :-k

Acid Trip
08-09-2011, 04:02 PM
idealists...pfffft. :nana:



OK, let me be a little more specific: the overall tax revenue needs to increase or else it'll be impossible to pay back all that debt. How you achieve that is cetainly a highly complicated issue on itself.

Welcome to the enlightened side. Increasing taxes and increasing tax revenue are two different things. You can lower rates while still increasing tax revenue but you cannot always raise taxes and raise revenue.

For example, the capital gains tax was lowered during Bush and the government got more capital gains tax revenue than when it was at a higher rate. Liberals couldn't believe their eyes because they don't understand economic fundamentals.

FBD
08-09-2011, 04:10 PM
taxes are merely one form of economic deterrent - regulations are just about the whole other half of the equation - both are penalizing those who wish to produce.

so lowering tax rates and keeping tons of arbitrary, shitty, useless regulations dont produce anywhere near the amount of productivity you'd see if tax rates were low, fair, and accompanied by a scaling back of the regulatory burden.

also, if you reduce tax rates only marginally, and increase regulatory burden....and not only that, vastly increasing regulatory uncertainty to boot...then you see what we have here - nobody can accurately plan for the future and people sit on their cash.