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View Full Version : FLASHBACK FOR BRITS: Obama's right. There is no special relationship... and the sooner we realise that the better



AntZ
02-20-2011, 10:13 AM
Obama's right. There is no special relationship... and the sooner we realise that the better

By Stephen Glover
Last updated at 2:00 AM on 12th January 2011




President Barack Obama will have caused more than a few palpitations in Whitehall by suggesting that France, not Britain, is the United States’ most important ally. ‘We don’t have a stronger friend and stronger ally than Nicolas Sarkozy and the French *people,’ he told the French President on Monday.

Not America’s best buddy? The best brains in the Foreign Office will be *trying to persuade themselves Mr Obama did not really mean it. They will say he was only trying to be nice to Mr Sarkozy during the French *President’s visit to Washington.

But what if he really meant what he said? During visits to the U.S. by *Gordon Brown and David Cameron, Mr Obama has had every opportunity to say Britain was America’s *strongest ally, but did not take it. Indeed, he seemed to go out of his way to snub Mr Brown by refusing to meet him.

There are other bits of evidence that Mr Obama does not cherish the *‘special relationship’ so dear to the hearts of policymakers in Whitehall. As soon as he entered the Oval Office, he removed the bust of Winston Churchill that had been loaned to George W. Bush by the British government.

During Britain’s stand-off with Argentina over the Falkland Islands, the Obama administration has been at best neutral, at worst pro-*Argentine. And throughout the Gulf of Mexico oil spill last year, the American President was keen to emphasise the British provenance of BP, the chief *perpetrator, and to make it pay.

Despite what the Foreign Office Johnnies may argue to themselves, there is enough evidence to suggest that Britain is not greatly valued by Mr Obama. And although there might be personal reasons for this — the American President claims his grandfather was *tortured by the British *during the Mau Mau rebellion in Kenya — I would *suggest his standpoint is shared by more American politicians than we might care to admit.

For most of the time we are regarded with indifference: an ally at once so loyal, depend*able and uncritical that we can be taken for granted. The *special relationship, about which our politicians obsess, is scarcely ever mentioned even by Britain’s friends in the U.S.


France is more important than Britain to Washington, might this be because French policymakers have robustly pursued a line independent of the U.S. and the British have not? After the Suez debacle of 1956 — when America pulled the plug on the militarily successful Anglo-French invasion of Egypt — the two European countries responded in *diametrically different ways.

While Britain grew ever closer to America, relying on American technology to produce its supposedly independent nuclear deterrent, France increasingly went its own *separate way. It developed its own nuclear arsenal — admittedly never proven — called the force de frappe, because it did not believe it could always rely on America to defend it from the Soviet threat.


* France is our biggest ally, declares Obama: President's blow to Special Relationship with Britain

In 1966, President Charles de Gaulle withdrew France from NATO’s so-called *‘integrated command structure’, which meant that French soldiers were no longer subject to NATO (which often meant American) control, and senior French military personnel left NATO’s headquarters. France became a full member of the organisation again only in 2009.

France opposed the invasion of Iraq in 2003, whereas Britain, under the direction of the *fervently pro-American Tony Blair, committed 40,000 *servicemen, even though President Bush and his Defence Secretary Donald Rumsfeld had made it perfectly clear that they could happily do without them. The French might have been denigrated as ‘cheese-eating surrender monkeys’ in the U.S., but who remembers that now?

In Afghanistan, France has committed only 3,850 troops and suffered 52 deaths, whereas Britain has 10,000 troops there (second only to America) and has lost 349 soldiers. Yet *Britain’s greater sacrifice in blood and money does not *prevent the American President from thinking France the more important ally.


We could, and should, get jolly upset about this disgraceful lack of gratitude — and then stop and think. We should not be in Afghanistan to please the Americans, though I fear we largely are. (Remember how, after the attack on the World Trade Centre, Tony Blair wildly asserted: ‘We are all Americans now.’) We should be there to defend our national self-interest.

And maybe the French government has a beadier eye on its national interest than we do. Maybe it is sceptical about NATO’s ability to defeat the Taliban and so offers the bare minimum of troops. Almost certainly it does not feel it *necessary to prove its importance to America in the way the British Government does.

Most of us learn when we are young that the child who attaches himself unreservedly to the strongest boy in the class ends up being taken for granted by him, even treated with contempt. The boy who stands apart, and judges case by case whether or not to side with the class bully, generally earns more respect from the bully and the rest of the class.

Look how desperately craven our leaders have become. When Gordon Brown was snubbed by President Obama in *September 2009, he really was like a small boy who had been excluded by the class leader, and his advisers virtually pleaded for a ‘face-to-face’ with the American President. After five rebuffs, a hasty meeting was finally arranged.

When he became Prime *Minister, David Cameron lost little time in jumping on a plane to pay court to the American President. He was so keen to abase himself that he claimed that ‘Britain was the junior partner in 1940 when we were fighting against Hitler’. *America did not declare war on Germany until December 1941.

Tony Blair was the most eager to bend the knee. According to the former British Ambassador to the United States, Sir *Christopher Meyer, during talks before the Iraq War Mr Blair was so awestruck by the power of President Bush that he underestimated the leverage he had over him.

I can’t imagine President de Gaulle demeaning his *country. Or Winston Churchill. Or *Margaret Thatcher. Pro-American though she undoubtedly was, she was perfectly capable of criticising her friend Ronald Reagan, as she did in 1983 after America had invaded the *Caribbean island of Grenada without bothering to notice that the Queen was its head of state.

America is the world’s sole superpower, and for much of the past century it has been a force for good in the world. To be a close ally of such a country is both sensible and necessary, as France has understood. To be an overdependent, sometimes fawning friend is neither sensible nor necessary.

Will our attitude of sub*servience ever change? Our military and intelligence *services are locked in with their counterparts in the United States. Our political leaders have mortgaged much of our independence.

The only way to free ourselves is by seeing ourselves as the Americans see us. That is why we should welcome President Obama’s statement, graceless and ungrateful though it was. This country is only one among several important friends his country has, and should stop seeing itself as an appendage of the United States.

FROM 'SPECIAL' TO FRACTIOUS, HOW THE ROOTS OF FRICTION BETWEEN BRITAIN, FRANCE AND THE U.S. GO BACK TO THE WAR OF INDEPENDENCE
While the apparent froideur of Barack Obama towards the British may stem from his Kenyan family's history during colonial rule it could be argued that the fractious past between France, Britain and the U.S. has resonances dating back to the War of Independence.

One of the catalysts for this would have been the 1759 Battle of Quebec when General James Wolfe took the fight to the French in what would prove pivotal to ousting France from North America.

Although he was mortally wounded in the fighting, victory that day meant that within five years Britain had taken control of nearly all of France's colonies.

However the French continued to try and maintain an influence in the region by secretly supplying the nascent independence movement with arms and expertise.

Americans, furious with the notion of taxation without representation, were desperate to rid themselves of British rule. One the most famous incidents was the 1773 tax revolt known as the Boston Tea Party.

Around 200 colonists, furious that the English crown was demanding payment of duties on cargoes of tea in three British ships, stormed the vessels in Boston harbour and threw the boxes of tea overboard.

The Tea Party reference has come to the fore once again with the grassroots political movement in the U.S. which fielded numerous candidates in recent elections, indicating the still-powerful allure of America's independence from her European allies.

Following the French Revolution of 1789, Washington recognised the new government but remained neutral. However, in Europe, years of conflict eventually saw the U.S. become an ally of France and fight the British in the Napoleonic Wars. The wars ended with Napoleon's final defeat at Waterloo on June 18, 1815.

The entente between the republics of France and the increasingly-important U.S. was symbolised with the gallic gift of the Statue of Liberty in 1884 in recognition of the friendship established during the American Revolution.

World War I saw Britain, France and America eventually fighting on the same side - the U.S. joined the bloody conflict in 1917 one year before it ended.

In World War II France was quickly over-run by the German army. The Free French led by General De Gaulle sought sanctuary and support in London while a fascist Vichy regime led by Marshall Petain ruled in southern France.

Relations reached a nadir between Britain and France after Winston Churchill ordered the attack on the French fleet at Mers-el-Kebir, a port on the North African coast. This was to stop the ships falling into German hands despite guarantees by the French that it would not. The resulting loss of life, more than 1,000 men, has led French historians to refer to the 1940 attack as their Pearl Harbour.

In 2003 France's relations with the U.S. deteriorated after it opposed the decision to invade Iraq. Britain led by Tony Blair, on the other hand, controversially took a different view and supported the move. France was pilloried as 'cheese-eating surrender monkeys' in the U.S. and the New York Post ran the headline 'Axis of Weasel'.

In contrast, George Bush went so far as to tell Congress that the U.S. had 'no truer friend' than Great Britain.

But that was then and now France is once more in the warm embrace of the U.S. Nicolas Sarkozy - who has been unabashed in declaring his love for America - has signalled a warmer relationship with the U.S., competing with the 'special relationship' enjoyed by the UK.

The phrase was originally coined more than 60 years ago by Churchill, and it reflected a bond which was especially strong between Margaret Thatcher and Ronald Reagan.

Obama now turning on the charm with France may be an indication that the tides of influence are once more changing. Just last year, the UK's Commons Foreign Affairs committee said it was wrong to speak of 'the special relationship' with the U.S., as the superpower was fostering other alliances.

The committee said the phrase 'the special relationship' did not reflect the 'modern' Anglo-American relationship.

For Obama his apparent coldness towards Britain may stem from his paternal grandfather being jailed.

According to his Kenyan family, Hussein Onyango Obama was arrested and jailed for two years after working as a cook for a British army officer after World War II.

They say he was tortured for information on the Kenyan independence movement.

Sarah Onyango, Hussein Onyango’s third wife and the woman Mr Obama is said to refer to as 'Granny Sarah', told reporters: 'The African warders were instructed by the white soldiers to whip him every morning and evening till he confessed.'

In his memoir, Dreams From My Father, Mr Obama refers briefly to the imprisonment but states that his grandfather was 'found innocent' and held for 'more than six months'.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-1346315/Obamas-right-There-special-relationship-Britain.html


________________________________________


It's funny to think that two of the most hated Presidents by Brits, Reagan and Bush, were the ones that never failed to recognize how important the U.K. was and what great friends we are! :-s

But after all Obama has done, the media will treat it like the second coming and people will line the streets and weep from joy at the mere sight of him! :roll:

AntZ
02-20-2011, 10:47 AM
WikiLeaks cables: US agrees to tell Russia Britain's nuclear secrets

The US secretly agreed to give the Russians sensitive information on Britain’s nuclear deterrent to persuade them to sign a key treaty, The Daily Telegraph can disclose.



By Matthew Moore, Gordon Rayner and Christopher Hope

9:25PM GMT 04 Feb 2011




Information about every Trident missile the US supplies to Britain will be given to Russia as part of an arms control deal signed by President Barack Obama next week.

Defence analysts claim the agreement risks undermining Britain’s policy of refusing to confirm the exact size of its nuclear arsenal.

The fact that the Americans used British nuclear secrets as a bargaining chip also sheds new light on the so-called “special relationship”, which is shown often to be a one-sided affair by US diplomatic communications obtained by the WikiLeaks website.

Details of the behind-the-scenes talks are contained in more than 1,400 US embassy cables published to date by the Telegraph, including almost 800 sent from the London Embassy, which are published online today. The documents also show that:

• America spied on Foreign Office ministers by gathering gossip on their private lives and professional relationships.


• Intelligence-sharing arrangements with the US became strained after the controversy over Binyam Mohamed, the former Guantánamo Bay detainee who sued the Government over his alleged torture.

• David Miliband disowned the Duchess of York by saying she could not “be controlled” after she made an undercover TV documentary.

• Tens of millions of pounds of overseas aid was stolen and spent on plasma televisions and luxury goods by corrupt regimes.

A series of classified messages sent to Washington by US negotiators show how information on Britain’s nuclear capability was crucial to securing Russia’s support for the “New START” deal.

Although the treaty was not supposed to have any impact on Britain, the leaked cables show that Russia used the talks to demand more information about the UK’s Trident missiles, which are manufactured and maintained in the US.

Washington lobbied London in 2009 for permission to supply Moscow with detailed data about the performance of UK missiles. The UK refused, but the US agreed to hand over the serial numbers of Trident missiles it transfers to Britain.

Professor Malcolm Chalmers said: “This appears to be significant because while the UK has announced how many missiles it possesses, there has been no way for the Russians to verify this. Over time, the unique identifiers will provide them with another data point to gauge the size of the British arsenal.”

Duncan Lennox, editor of Jane’s Strategic Weapons Systems, said: “They want to find out whether Britain has more missiles than we say we have, and having the unique identifiers might help them.”

While the US and Russia have long permitted inspections of each other’s nuclear weapons, Britain has sought to maintain some secrecy to compensate for the relatively small size of its arsenal.

William Hague, the Foreign Secretary, last year disclosed that “up to 160” warheads are operational at any one time, but did not confirm the number of missiles.


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/wikileaks/8304654/WikiLeaks-cables-US-agrees-to-tell-Russia-Britains-nuclear-secrets.html#



http://minimages.com/images/69330365498504781758.jpg

redred
02-20-2011, 01:23 PM
he's pissed because he didn't get and invite to the wedding

Vixen
02-20-2011, 01:46 PM
:yup:

Southern Belle
02-20-2011, 01:52 PM
Newt Gingrich made a statemeny about O's handling of the protests in Egypt something to the effect that it was amateurish. Same applies here.
He doesn't have a clue about statesmanship.

DemonGeminiX
02-20-2011, 02:33 PM
:-k


Did Sarkozy get him laid?

Deepsepia
02-21-2011, 05:22 PM
What a bunch of nonsense. Is reminiscent of the third grade game are you my "first best friend or second best friend"

From a purely semantic perspective, Obama's statement that "the US does not have a better friend than" France, does not imply that they are preferred above the UK, as a matter of English language, it means that none are more preferred-- though many might be equally preferred.

As to the "special relationship", this is more a fixation of one sort of Tory than of the US, and in fact the US, while it accords a lot of importance to the UK relationship, generally accords Canada primacy.

In protocol terms, one signal that the US sends is "which nation gets the first state visit"-- I believe that for Obama, this was to Canada (Obama met with the President of Mexico in DC the day before or after the Canada trip.)

The UK is part of Europe, that's not politics, that's just where it is. And the US is in North America . . .

AntZ
05-23-2011, 10:39 PM
After seeing the way the Irish greeted him today, you would think the last two and a half years never happened? :-s

Talk about blind allegiance?? :huh: You would have thought it was Jesus on the mount! :rolleyes:

Looks like we'll see the Brits lust for him tomorrow!

deebakes
05-23-2011, 10:41 PM
palin 2012 :tup:

beowulf
05-23-2011, 11:14 PM
so...is Paddy O'Bama suddenly going to find an Irish birth certificate?

AntZ
05-23-2011, 11:21 PM
so...is Paddy O'Bama suddenly going to find an Irish birth certificate?

I guess you didn't watch the news! He was toasted as a son of Ireland!! And they dragged some drunk out of a pub and said he was his distant cousin! :rolleyes:

Funny thing though, while speaking to the massive adoring crowd, he completely forgot how to speak his jiggy jive?? :-k ALL the soul preacher black slang suddenly disappeared?

AntZ
05-23-2011, 11:24 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OH05peQWH7Q


:facepalm:

Deepsepia
05-23-2011, 11:27 PM
After seeing the way the Irish greeted him today, you would think the last two and a half years never happened? :-s

Talk about blind allegiance?? :huh: You would have thought it was Jesus on the mount! :rolleyes:

Looks like we'll see the Brits lust for him tomorrow!

Far odder to me than the fact that foreigners like Obama, is that you hate that fact so much

Why?

Me, I like to see our leaders held in high esteem by our friends and allies.

The speech he gave in Ireland was a good one, and they appreciated it-- its been a crappy time for the Irish, and while a visit and a pint doesn't make anything better, it does show respect. People do appreciate getting respect from the US, just as we appreciate getting respect from them.