Obama to propose "Buffett Tax" on millionaires

[Teh One Who Knocks]

By Alister Bull


WASHINGTON (Reuters) - President Barack Obama, in a populist step designed to appeal to voters, will propose a "Buffett Tax" on people making more than $1 million a year as part of his deficit recommendations to Congress on Monday.

Such a proposal, among suggestions to a congressional supercommittee expected to seek up to $3 trillion in deficit savings over 10 years, would appeal to his Democratic base ahead of the 2012 election but may not raise much in revenues.

White House Communications Director Dan Pfeiffer said in a tweet on Saturday the tax would act as "a kind of AMT" (Alternative Minimum Tax) aimed at ensuring millionaires pay a minimum rate of tax that at least matches that of middle-class families.

The "Buffett Tax" refers to billionaire U.S. investor Warren Buffett, who wrote earlier this year that rich people like him often pay less in tax than those who work for them due to loopholes in the tax code, and can afford to pay more.

Obama will lay out his recommendations in White House Rose Garden remarks at 10.30 a.m. EDT on Monday and is expected to urge steps to raise tax revenue as well as cuts in government spending.

Those could include reforms of the Medicare and Medicaid government healthcare programs for elderly and poorer Americans. The White House has already said Obama will not recommend any changes to the popular Social Security federal retirement plan.

Obama, who has been hammered in opinion polls over his handling of the faltering economy, wants to use his plan to counter Republican claims he is a 'tax-and-spend' liberal as he campaigns for re-election next year.

Congress is at liberty to ignore his suggestions and Republicans, who control the U.S. House of Representatives, have said that they will not agree to tax hikes.

INVESTOR SCRUTINY

If the president pushes for tax increases that stand little chance of being passed by a divided Congress, it may help him blame lawmakers for thwarting his plans at a time when the public's opinion of Congress has touched record lows.

But he is also under pressure to show leadership after rating agency Standard and Poor's cut the U.S. AAA credit rating, and as investors scrutinize Washington for evidence it can curb the country's towering deficit and mounting debt.

The supercommittee of six Democratic and six Republican lawmakers must find at least $1.2 trillion in deficit savings before the end of the year to avoid painful automatic cuts, and is mandated to seek savings of up to $1.5 trillion.

Those savings are on top of $917 billion in deficit reduction agreed to in an August deal to raise the U.S. debt limit and Obama wants the supercommittee to go further.

Obama has separately urged the supercommittee to consider $467 billion in tax increases on top of that goal to pay for a jobs bill he unveiled earlier this month.

He has repeatedly called on Congress to close tax loopholes for "millionaires and billionaires" as he seeks to draw a sharp distinction between himself and the Republicans before next year's election.

The Buffett Tax could help energize Obama's base by highlighting a feature of the U.S. tax code that allows the super rich to pay lower rates of tax than less wealthy Americans because much of their income comes from investments.

Those are taxed at 15 percent, compared with income tax rates of 10 to 35 percent.

"We're playing with fire if we don't agree at least on the minimum (in deficit cuts)," said William Galston, a senior fellow at the Brookings Institution in Washington.

"If we can't get to at least $1.2 trillion ... people outside the United States, to whom we are in the last analysis beholden, are going to reach conclusions about us that are going to make our jobs and our lives even more difficult," he said.

[FBD]

buh bye!

buhhhhhhhhhh

bye!!!


BYE!!!!!


time to vote yet? :rofl:



what a maroon!

[Teh One Who Knocks]

The problem with this "logic" if you can even call it that, is even by raising the tax rate on the super wealthy, it would just be a drop in the bucket at the Treasury and a punishment to these people because they are well off and successful.

To prove the point I went to the last published list by Forbes magazine of the richest people in America:

http://www.forbes.com/wealth/forbes-400/gallery

I took the top 100 on the list of 400 wealthiest Americans and added their net worth together. If the US Government was yo completely seize all their assets it would only add up to $941.2 billion....that won't even cover the US Government budget deficit for the current year, never mind the long term liabilities owed by the federal government. So if completely taking all the money owned by the richest people in America will only barely make a dent in the budget deficit for one single year, why do the democrats keep trying to perpetrate the lie that the rich aren't paying their fair share?

One simple word: politics

And what makes it even sadder is that the ignorant population of this country won't educate themselves enough to see it's a lie. Oh, and to top it off, the ones all in favor of taxing the wealthy more are the ones that don't pay one single dime to the upkeep of the country they live in.

It just pisses me off to no end that the leeches in this country (and elsewhere) eat this bullshit up.

[Loser]

Gotta disagree with ya on this, I do believe something like this needs to be done, and I'll point out my reason.

My grandfather was not a millionaire by any means, but he was wealthy, and he doled out tax checks in the range of 200,000-300,000$ a year. With that being said, he and I knew people who are exceedingly more wealthy then he is, and they pay roughly half what he pays in taxes.

Does that seem fair?

There is a very large disconnect somewhere in there, and it needs to be fixed.

Is this the way to do it? I would think not. Reworking the entire tax code would be a good thing though.

[Teh One Who Knocks]

Is it fair that they want to raise the rates on wealthy people while nearly 50% of Americans don't pay a single dime in income tax?

How about the welfare mom that lives off the system, has 4 kids by 3 different men and gets a fucking income tax refund that's bigger than mine, when she pays no income tax at all? Is that fair?

[Loser]

Is it fair that they want to raise the rates on wealthy people while nearly 50% of Americans don't pay a single dime in income tax?

How about the welfare mom that lives off the system, has 4 kids by 3 different men and gets a fucking income tax refund that's bigger than mine, when she pays no income tax at all? Is that fair?

Dude, did you forget that I'm from the ghetto? :lol:

There's nothing on this planet that pisses me off more then 3rd and 4th generation welfare recipients ;)

But look at what I'm saying.

If business man "A" makes under a certain amount and has to pay 250,000$ in taxes each year, while business man "B" makes 10 times that much and pays half in taxes what business man "A" pays, does that seem right?

That's what's happening.

Will this jackass obama fix it? No, he's a fucking idiot flat out.

But that doesn't negate the fact that the tax system is completely fucked, and needs to be reworked from the ground up. ;)

[Teh One Who Knocks]

Where did I say the tax code is fair as it stands? Nobody in their right mind thinks it's fair, other than communists and socialists...and they don't think it goes far enough. All I'm talking about is this stupid tax increase on the rich people that he's proposing. Go look at the list and do the math...if you were to seize all net worth of the richest 100 people in America, it doesn't even add up to 66% of the federal budget deficit for this year alone.

So let's talk apples and apples here...how is it fair to increase the tax rate of the wealthy people when the revenue that will actual come from it won't even be a drop in the bucket towards the spending problem this country has?

Like I said, it all comes down to one word. Two actually, and those words are politics and ignorance. This whole BS 'jobs bill' is nothing more than a desperate campaign stunt by Obama to get the ignorant Americans to re-elect him because Obama is out to get the 'evil rich people' and spread the wealth to the poor, poor folks that just need a hand(out). :roll:

[Loser]

Where did I say the tax code is fair as it stands? Nobody in their right mind thinks it's fair, other than communists and socialists...and they don't think it goes far enough. All I'm talking about is this stupid tax increase on the rich people that he's proposing. Go look at the list and do the math...if you were to seize all net worth of the richest 100 people in America, it doesn't even add up to 66% of the federal budget deficit for this year alone.

So let's talk apples and apples here...how is it fair to increase the tax rate of the wealthy people when the revenue that will actual come from it won't even be a drop in the bucket towards the spending problem this country has?

Like I said, it all comes down to one word. Two actually, and those words are politics and ignorance. This whole BS 'jobs bill' is nothing more than a desperate campaign stunt by Obama to get the ignorant Americans to re-elect him because Obama is out to get the 'evil rich people' and spread the wealth to the poor, poor folks that just need a hand(out). :roll:

Were both in agreement and arguing the same thing to one another :lol:

Short form.

a.) obama is a fucking idiot.
b.) His job bill is fucking asinine.
c.) His buffet tax bill is monumentally fucking retarded, and that's putting it nicely.
d.) The tax system is fucked.
and
e.) Blue collar people will get fucked, yet again, in their already sore assholes.

[Teh One Who Knocks]

Were both in agreement and arguing the same thing to one another :lol:

Short form.

a.) obama is a fucking idiot.
b.) His job bill is fucking asinine.
c.) His buffet tax bill is monumentally fucking retarded, and that's putting it nicely.
d.) The tax system is fucked.
and
e.) Blue collar people will get fucked, yet again, in their already sore assholes.

:agreed:

[Southern Belle]

He thinks we're all idiots. "They" think we're all idiots.

[Softdreamer]

So its not worth trying to raise any extra revenue???

These people can afford it, so why not? I know it isnt the solution to all the problems, but will really do any harm?

[Southern Belle]

It won't do any harm but it won't solve anything either. Just a gesture by a jackass who has no idea how people like us live from day to day.

[Loser]

Just because we can, doesn't mean we should. ;)

[Teh One Who Knocks]

Just because we can, doesn't mean we should. ;)

But....but....but don't you understand? Our government just needs more money to get things done.

;)

[Griffin]

Flat tax rate across the the board.
If you make nothing you pay nothing....but you get nothing in return.

[Loser]

Flat tax rate across the the board.
If you make nothing you pay nothing....but you get nothing in return.

I would back this 1000000000000%

[Softdreamer]

Flat tax rate across the the board.
If you make nothing you pay nothing....but you get nothing in return.

My idea, take the poverty line income (~$25k if I remember) and tax everything earned at 50% above that line. poor people have more money in their pockets to spend, rich people contribute more.

And as it would mean most poor people never climbing out of minimum wage lives (yet not living in poverty), it would keep you rich elitists happy (no names mentioned).

[Southern Belle]

It's the socialist way.

[Softdreamer]

Why does socialism have to be a word that is used in derogatory terms by Americans??
The rest of the world doesnt seem to think of it that way.

[Teh One Who Knocks]

And why do Europeans always think socialism (i.e. more money taken from working people to give to lazy people) is the answer? Go ask Greece how it's working out for them.

[Muddy]

And why do Europeans always think socialism (i.e. more money taken from working people to give to lazy people) is the answer? Go ask Greece how it's working out for them.

+1

[Softdreamer]

Greece failed because it is a black money economy, anyone who has ever been there knows it is more corrupt than any other European country. and far FAR from being a socialist state.

Socialism does not mean taking money away from workers to give to non-workers, That is an example of far right propaganda.

[Teh One Who Knocks]

No, of course it doesn't, the money comes from magic trees that grow in secret locations...none of it comes from the money I and other working people earn :thumbsup:

:roll:

[Muddy]

I could use a Shoneys breakfast buffet this morning...

[KevinD]

My idea, take the poverty line income (~$25k if I remember) and tax everything earned at 50% above that line. poor people have more money in their pockets to spend, rich people contribute more.

And as it would mean most poor people never climbing out of minimum wage lives (yet not living in poverty), it would keep you rich elitists happy (no names mentioned).

Soooo, I make quite a bit more than 25K/yr. You want me to pay 50% in taxes on everything I make above 25K? I would almost got for that, as long as you took away ALL other taxes I pay...County, state, road, home school, vehicle, sales, cigarettes, alcohol, "luxury" Social Security, Medicare, etc, etc..The list goes on and on. My co-worker sat down for a week or so together a few years ago (when we both only made around 50k/yr) and as near as we could figure, we were already taxed at 52% You want to lay on an additional 50%?? No fucking way.

Like griffin says: Flat tax!
Then of course the problem becomes who gets the taxes: county, state, or federal

[Acid Trip]

If business man "A" makes under a certain amount and has to pay 250,000$ in taxes each year, while business man "B" makes 10 times that much and pays half in taxes what business man "A" pays, does that seem right?


The stupidity of that statement is amazing. Person A DOES NOT pay more in taxes than Person B. They may pay a higher percentage in relation to their total income but there is NO WAY he pays more (as in the size of the check to the IRS) than Person A. It's misinformation like this that incites class warfare.

[Muddy]

They may pay a higher percentage in relation to their total income

Here still in lies the problem.. :lol:

[PorkChopSandwiches]

http://l.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/P6JCzzVSCaGXAra0AVjfOw--/YXBwaWQ9eW5ld3M7Zmk9aW5zZXQ7aD0zMjE7cT04NTt3PTUxMg--/http://media.zenfs.com/en_us/News/AFP/photo_1316305237183-1-0.jpg

[Teh One Who Knocks]

http://i.imgur.com/ajjKS.jpg

[Griffin]

http://www.gun-one.com/Erkle.jpg

[Acid Trip]

Here still in lies the problem.. :lol:

So you want to tax capital gains at the same rate as income? You realize that capital gains is a double tax already right? You are taxed once as income (the full 35% or whatever) and then you invest what's left in order to make money. The money your money makes (ie capital gains) should be taxed again at 35% instead of 15%?

Interesting idea but it will never happen. When the capital gains tax was dropped to 15% the government got more revenue from the tax than they did when it was 21%. So how would raising that tax benefit anyone when it's shown that the lower the capital gains tax the more people invest and thus more tax revenue?

[Muddy]

So you want to tax capital gains at the same rate as income?

I want everyone to pay the same tax rates.. Rich, poor, middle... I'm not a tax guy.. So whatever that entails..

[Acid Trip]

I want everyone to pay the same tax rates.. Rich, poor, middle... I'm not a tax guy.. So whatever that entails..

Then you believe in a flat tax. It's amazing to me that so many people are for the flat tax yet NO ONE in Washington will bring it up.

[Hal-9000]

http://www.gun-one.com/Erkle.jpg

:lol:

[Acid Trip]

While we are on the subject of taxes/fines, speeding and parking tickets should be income based to be totally fair.

A $250 ticket isn't a big deal to me. If I get one I pay it and move on.

A $250 speeding ticket to someone who makes $1000 a month is life altering. That's 25% of their monthly income in the form of a single fine.

Now imagine this, what if tickets were based on a percentage of income? Say a speeding ticket will cost you 0.25% of your income. Someone who makes $250k a year would be charged $625. A person who makes 20k a year would be charged $50. The super rich who ride around at any speed they want (because tickets are so cheap to them) would think twice about multiple tickets.

Make $10,000,000 a year and a speeding ticket will cost you $25,000. A novel idea but it would never happen.

[Hal-9000]

Why is it so hard to set up a system in which you pay a percentage of your yearly income? Let's say 10%.....

guy who makes 30000/yr pays 3000
guy who makes 100000/yr pays 10000
guy who makes 500000/yr pays 50000
and a guy who makes 2,5000,000/yr pays 250000...

With a base system like that, the only worry would be people cheating on reporting their income,
and then the government could impose stiffer penalties for tax evasion on top of the 10% :thumbsup:

and of course the rich would suffer the hardest, but I bet the economy wouldn't be 123 trillion dollars in debt

[Arkady Renko]

everyone will have to bleed some, why spare the rich?

[Muddy]

Why is it so hard to set up a system in which you pay a percentage of your yearly income? Let's say 10%.....

guy who makes 30000/yr pays 3000
guy who makes 100000/yr pays 10000
guy who makes 500000/yr pays 50000
and a guy who makes 2,5000,000/yr pays 250000...

With a base system like that, the only worry would be people cheating on reporting their income,
and then the government could impose stiffer penalties for tax evasion on top of the 10% :thumbsup:

and of course the rich would suffer the hardest, but I bet the economy wouldn't be 123 trillion dollars in debt

Lets do it!

[Hal-9000]

If I had the slightest inkling of how your tax system worked, I could make an actual suggestion :lol:

[Muddy]

What you suggest is what we all want... But the reality is there will always be some fuck that wants to tip the tables in their favor.. And there will always be some rat bag politician that will make it happen for the right price..

[Teh One Who Knocks]

everyone will have to bleed some, why spare the rich?

No one is saying spare the rich, but the political rhetoric of singling them out as evil money grubbers is getting kinda old

[Muddy]

I wouldn't be too quick to jump up and defend them Lance.. I'm sure they can and are fending for themselves just fine...

[Arkady Renko]

No one is saying spare the rich, but the political rhetoric of singling them out as evil money grubbers is getting kinda old

true, that's asinine. I just think it won't be possible to start painful cuts into all sorts of expenses like medicare, food stamps etc. without killing a few pet entitlements of the wealthier classes at the same time.

[lost in melb.]

While we are on the subject of taxes/fines, speeding and parking tickets should be income based to be totally fair.

A $250 ticket isn't a big deal to me. If I get one I pay it and move on.

A $250 speeding ticket to someone who makes $1000 a month is life altering. That's 25% of their monthly income in the form of a single fine.

Now imagine this, what if tickets were based on a percentage of income? Say a speeding ticket will cost you 0.25% of your income. Someone who makes $250k a year would be charged $625. A person who makes 20k a year would be charged $50. The super rich who ride around at any speed they want (because tickets are so cheap to them) would think twice about multiple tickets.

Make $10,000,000 a year and a speeding ticket will cost you $25,000. A novel idea but it would never happen.

Never in America perhaps. They do this all the time in Europe, with millionaire playboys who zoom 'round the Matterhorn in their Porschey :thumbsup: