Coins as payment: 'Money's money'

[Teh One Who Knocks]

By Shellie Bailey-Shah KATU Problem Solver


http://i.imgur.com/Xo6wE.jpg

PORTLAND, Ore. – A Portland woman says a grocery store wouldn’t let her pay for her family’s food because she was paying for it with loose change.

“Jean” was too embarrassed to show her face or use her real name, but she wanted people to hear her story.

“We had nothing to feed our children with,” she said. “So we broke out the change.”

Jean said she brought $32 in quarters to Save-a-Lot in Southeast Portland. After she grabbed her groceries, she waited until the checkout line cleared so she could pay.

“And when I went up, I told them, you know ‘I have change. Sorry, it’s hard times right now.’ And they go, 'well we can only accept $5,'" Jean said.

“It’s money,” she added. “Money’s money.”

But the clerk wouldn’t budge, Jean said. “I was mortified. Mortified.”

Jean said she went to Fred Meyer, but the store manager insisted she use the change machine where you’re charged a fee of nearly 10 percent. Jean said she couldn’t afford to lose the money and started crying in front of another customer.

“He was disgusted by what they were saying too, and he said ‘I’ll take your change, I’ll buy your change from you.’ And the manager decided OK, go to the change machine and we’ll pay the fee,” Jean said.

Jean said she didn’t want to use gas money to go to her bank because it was far away.

Tuesday, both Fred Meyer and Save-a-Lot responded to calls from KATU News.

"We apologize for the inconvenience the customer experienced at the store," said Fred Meyer Public Affairs Director Melinda Merrill. "Receiving change for a payment is a rare occurrence. Fred Meyer stores do accept change as payment and we will work with our store directors and management teams to ensure they know this."

Save-a-Lot External Communications Manager Chon Tomlin also apologized Tuesday.

"We deeply apologize for the misunderstanding that occurred recently at our SE Foster location. As a corporate policy, we accept all forms of payment, except for American Express. There is no maximum limit on cash payments, specifically those involving coins of any type," Tomlin said.

When the KATU Problem Solvers called around to other grocery stores in our area and said they were from KATU, all of the store managers said loose change was acceptable as payment. But when they called back as customers, they got a different story:



QFC would only accept $5 or $6 in loose change.
Albertsons said they would only accept $5.
WinCo and Safeway didn’t have a cutoff, but said they tell customers to use the change machine.
Only Whole Foods and New Seasons were open to accepting change, no matter what the amount.


The KATU Problem Solvers checked with the Oregon Attorney General, who said while there is a federal law saying coins are legal tender, there is not a law that mandates private businesses accept them as payment.

“If the government issues you the money, they should take it,” said Jean.

[Teh One Who Knocks]

Sorry, I have to side with the stores on this one. Having someone use up to $5 in change is more than reasonable. It's a store FFS, not a bank and I don't want numpties ahead of me trying to pay for their groceries with a jarful of change that the cashier has to go through and count.

[Muddy]

Even if the change is rolled?

[Teh One Who Knocks]

How does the cashier know the rolls are completely full?

[redred]

Sorry, I have to side with the stores on this one. Having someone use up to $5 in change is more than reasonable. It's a store FFS, not a bank and I don't want numpties ahead of me trying to pay for their groceries with a jarful of change that the cashier has to go through and count.

i agree i moan about being stick behind someone paying cash all the time ,my mother is the worse no matter what she buys she always has to try and find the right money,i've watch her count out the amount only for 4 minutes later she's 15 p short ,i just hand over my card just to get out the shop

[Acid Trip]

Sorry, I have to side with the stores on this one. Having someone use up to $5 in change is more than reasonable. It's a store FFS, not a bank and I don't want numpties ahead of me trying to pay for their groceries with a jarful of change that the cashier has to go through and count.

She was obviously down on her luck so they should have showed some heart. You claim the store isn't a bank but she's not asking to get the money changed, she's asking them to accept it as payment. The store can easily put it in their deposits.

Besides, how many people will actually try and pay for everything with change? My guess is that there aren't many.

Change machines take 8-10% from the customer. Credit Cards charge the store 1-4% of the total. Accepting cash is free. Everyone wins.

[Muddy]

She was obviously down on her luck so they should have showed some heart. You claim the store isn't a bank but she's not asking to get the money changed, she's asking them to accept it as payment. The store can easily put it in their deposits.

Besides, how many people will actually try and pay for everything with change? My guess is that there aren't many.

Change machines take 8-10% from the customer. Credit Cards charge the store 1-4% of the total. Accepting cash is free. Everyone wins.

Exactly... Help the woman out FFS.

[Teh One Who Knocks]

She was obviously down on her luck so they should have showed some heart. You claim the store isn't a bank but she's not asking to get the money changed, she's asking them to accept it as payment. The store can easily put it in their deposits.

Besides, how many people will actually try and pay for everything with change? My guess is that there aren't many.

Change machines take 8-10% from the customer. Credit Cards charge the store 1-4% of the total. Accepting cash is free. Everyone wins.


Jean said she didn’t want to use gas money to go to her bank because it was far away.

She obviously has an account of some kind at a bank, so go to the bank and get the money changed and then go shopping. Her bank is too far away? Where is it, Idaho? Is she driving an M1 Abrams tank where she will use 100 gallons of fuel to go to the bank? I have never had a bank where I have an account charge me for cashing in change.

I am all for giving people a break, but again, the store is not a bank. If she has a jarful of coins, the cashier has to count it all, and that takes time and that is disrespectful to anyone that is in line. And if you do it for one person, you have to do it for everyone.

Why didn't she go to the customer service desk first and see if she could cash it in there first instead of waiting to go to the cashier with her groceries? When I'm at the grocery store (or any store for that matter) the biggest pet peeve of mine is people at the checkout causing delays for everyone else.

[Teh One Who Knocks]

Exactly... Help the woman out FFS.

Imma go to the grocery store the same time as you and jump in line ahead of you and pay for everything in pennies :)

[MrsM]

It sounds like she waited for the line to clear so she was not holding up others. I agree that they are not a bank - but they are still in the Customer Service industry and should want to keep their customers happy.

Now if she was a bitch about it - then I don't have a problem taking a stance against helping her out. But if it went down as written, then I'm all for lending a hand.

[Teh One Who Knocks]

It sounds like she waited for the line to clear so she was not holding up others. I agree that they are not a bank - but they are still in the Customer Service industry and should want to keep their customers happy.

Now if she was a bitch about it - then I don't have a problem taking a stance against helping her out. But if it went down as written, then I'm all for lending a hand.

The article is definitely written to elicit sympathy for the woman, so who knows if it's accurately portraying her plight ;)

[MrsM]

The article is definitely written to elicit sympathy for the woman, so who knows if it's accurately portraying her plight ;)

I agree - that's why I noted if it went down as written.

[Muddy]

I'm sure she was really an angry negro bitch looking for a hand out..

[Teh One Who Knocks]

I'm sure she was really an angry negro bitch looking for a hand out..

Not in Oregon :hand:

[Muddy]

Throw her in Jail..

[Teh One Who Knocks]

Throw her in Jail..

I love how some people always take things to the extreme, thanks for not disappointing :tup:

[Muddy]

You sir, are quite welcome.. :thumbsup:

[Teh One Who Knocks]

Why stop at jail, might as go all the way and execute her publicly in the square downtown. Maybe infect her with a flesh eating virus or ebola so we can really watch her suffer :tup:

[dmni]

UK makes it very clear for what can and can't be used as payment in coins, http://www.royalmint.com/corporate/policies/legal_tender_guidelines.aspx

[Muddy]

Why stop at jail, might as go all the way and execute her publicly in the square downtown. Maybe infect her with a flesh eating virus or ebola so we can really watch her suffer :tup:

Cut her fucking head off!!

http://www.cineol.net/images/noticias/Cameos/Waterboy_2.jpg

[RBP]

I'm sure she was really an angry negro bitch looking for a hand out..

:lol: You're on your game today. Did you get laid last night?

[Muddy]

:lol: You're on your game today. Did you get laid last night?

Man I need some booty so bad, I've been harassing Goofy for a panty shot.. :lol:

[Joebob034]

I used to work in the pharmacy at CVS and I had a lady pay a $20 copay all in change once. It was super annoying, but at the same time you can't really refuse it, it's legal tender.

[Acid Trip]

She obviously has an account of some kind at a bank, so go to the bank and get the money changed and then go shopping. Her bank is too far away? Where is it, Idaho? Is she driving an M1 Abrams tank where she will use 100 gallons of fuel to go to the bank? I have never had a bank where I have an account charge me for cashing in change.

I am all for giving people a break, but again, the store is not a bank. If she has a jarful of coins, the cashier has to count it all, and that takes time and that is disrespectful to anyone that is in line. And if you do it for one person, you have to do it for everyone.

Why didn't she go to the customer service desk first and see if she could cash it in there first instead of waiting to go to the cashier with her groceries? When I'm at the grocery store (or any store for that matter) the biggest pet peeve of mine is people at the checkout causing delays for everyone else.

When you are broke every penny counts.

It seems like you want to punish people for wasting your time. So you spend an extra couple minutes at the store once in a blue moon, big fucking deal.

[Acid Trip]

United States coins and currency (including Federal reserve notes and circulating notes of Federal reserve banks and national banks) are legal tender for all debts, public charges, taxes and dues. Foreign gold or silver coins are not legal tender for debts.

—31 U.S.C. § 5103

[Teh One Who Knocks]

When you are broke every penny counts.

It seems like you want to punish people for wasting your time. So you spend an extra couple minutes at the store once in a blue moon, big fucking deal.

So obviously your time is worthless, good to fucking know :thumbsup:

See, I can use the word 'fucking' in my post too

[Teh One Who Knocks]

United States coins and currency (including Federal reserve notes and circulating notes of Federal reserve banks and national banks) are legal tender for all debts, public charges, taxes and dues. Foreign gold or silver coins are not legal tender for debts.

—31 U.S.C. § 5103

Maybe you are tired and didn't notice this, so I'll repost this part for you


The KATU Problem Solvers checked with the Oregon Attorney General, who said while there is a federal law saying coins are legal tender, there is not a law that mandates private businesses accept them as payment.

So you want to mandate how private companies conduct business, also good to know :thumbsup:

[Muddy]

Fed>State

[Hal-9000]

I disagree with the people on the side of the stores.

The government manufactures the currency and the economy dictates through pricing (2.99, 3.49, 5.79) that coins are valid legal tender.

Screw that supermarket.You're telling me that they don't go through 32 dollars of coins in one business day at the tills? Of course they do.That would be a prime place to spend that sort of coinage :thumbsup:


*remember, this story is not about you waiting behind someone and getting frustrated, it's about legal currency.

[PorkChopSandwiches]

WhatFuckinEver, money is money

[Teh One Who Knocks]

*remember, this story is not about you waiting behind someone and getting frustrated, it's about legal currency.

Yes it is :nono:

[Teh One Who Knocks]

WhatFuckinEver, money is money

And I'm sure you would be saying that exact thing if your company decided from now on it was paying you in cash on payday....in nickels ;)

[DemonGeminiX]

I don't agree with you, Lance. The grocery store is in the wrong here.

[Teh One Who Knocks]

I don't agree with you, Lance. The grocery store is in the wrong here.

Red agrees with me, so phooey on you :hand:

[DemonGeminiX]

:-s

You have a guy with no ears in your corner.

[Teh One Who Knocks]

Ears are not necessary in this debate :hand:

[DemonGeminiX]

But... he has no ears.

:dunno:

[Teh One Who Knocks]

But... he has no ears.

:dunno:

:slap:

What did I just say? :nono:

[Hal-9000]

I don't agree with you, Lance. The grocery store is in the wrong here.

I'm with DGX..

That's 4 ears against 2 ears , we win :dance:

[Teh One Who Knocks]

*buys a sack of corn on the cob*

Now I win :cheers:

[DemonGeminiX]

I'm with DGX..

That's 4 ears against 2 ears , we win :dance:

:woot:

[DemonGeminiX]

*buys a sack of corn on the cob*

Now I win :cheers:

:hand:

You can't count those unless they're attached to a human being.

[Teh One Who Knocks]

:hand:

You can't count those unless they're attached to a human being.

*glues them all to Red*

:banana:

[Hal-9000]

When the GST was instituted in our city, one store owner (My Favorite Ice Cream Shop) was furious.Not just because he had to register and monitor the provincial tax, he was pissed because it added 7% on to each of his customer's purchases.

So he loaded up a wheelbarrow and filled it with his first monthly GST payment and went to the bank.It was all coins.A long story short, both the bank and the gov had to accept his payment.

STICK THAT IN YOUR EARS :lol:

[Teh One Who Knocks]

When the GST was instituted in our city, one store owner (My Favorite Ice Cream Shop) was furious.Not just because he had to register and monitor the provincial tax, he was pissed because it added 7% on to each of his customer's purchases.

So he loaded up a wheelbarrow and filled it with his first monthly GST payment and went to the bank.It was all coins.A long story short, both the bank and the gov had to accept his payment.

STICK THAT IN YOUR EARS :lol:



Nobody cares what weird things you do in Canadaland :hand:

[DemonGeminiX]

*glues them all to Red*

:banana:

:hand:

Pics or GTFO.

[Joebob034]

WhatFuckinEver, money is money

:hand: time is money, but money is not time

[Hal-9000]

Nobody cares what weird things you do in Canadaland :hand:

I can't 'ear you :corn:

[Acid Trip]

Maybe you are tired and didn't notice this, so I'll repost this part for you



So you want to mandate how private companies conduct business, also good to know :thumbsup:

Obviously the state AG doesn't know what he's talking about. Federal law trumps anything at the state level.

I'm also sorry you think your time is somehow more valuable than anyone else. You spend 5 extra minutes (maybe once a month) because a poor person has to pay with change and you would freak out. Pity.

And it's on thing to tell a business how to run and you know I'm against that. It's a different story for a business to deny the national currency for the country in which they operate. Yeah, I'm so into telling private businesses how to operate :roll:

[Teh One Who Knocks]

Obviously the state AG doesn't know what he's talking about. Federal law trumps anything at the state level.

I'm also sorry you think your time is somehow more valuable than anyone else. You spend 5 extra minutes (maybe once a month) because a poor person has to pay with change and you would freak out. Pity.

We've already established that your time is worthless, no need to keep harping on it :thumbsup:

As for your contention that the AG doesn't know what he's talking about, I think I'll defer to his law degree and not your forum posts, mmkay?


What is “Legal Tender”?

Oh well. What has people confused is the notion that cash is “legal tender.” If you look at a dollar bill -- er, Federal Reserve Note -- in your wallet, you’ll see that it says “this note is legal tender for all debts, public and private.”

“Legal tender” is what makes an official currency official. It means that a creditor must accept federal reserve notes in satisfaction of a debt. If you get to the checkout line at the local Piggly Wiggly and the cashier demands payment in rubles or pesos you have every right to say “Sorry buddy, but I’ve got some Federal Reserve notes burning a hole in my pocket.”

You have that right under the "legal tender" statute which states: "United States coins and currency (including Federal Reserve notes and circulating notes of Federal Reserve banks and national banks) are legal tender for all debts, public charges, taxes, and dues."

Businesses Must Accept “Dollars,” but Not Cash

This means that US notes and coins are a valid and legal offer of payment for debts when tendered to a creditor. However, although businesses must accept dollars, that doesn’t mean they literally have to take your big wad of bill,s which is bulky, difficult to make change for, and, frankly, a breeding ground for germs. A vendor can usually put reasonable conditions on the manner in which they will accept dollars, and one of those conditions can be that they’ll only accept dollars electronically, via credit card. Or, as the US Treasury explains on their website, “Private businesses are free to develop their own policies on whether or not to accept cash unless there is a State law which says otherwise.”

So far, Legal Lad has yet to find a state law that mandates payment in cash. In fact, as we discussed in our earlier episodes, courts in a number of states have dismissed challenges to various no-cash policies. But Fred, if you can find a state that forbids no-cash policies, then you can certainly try to get the airline to accept your cash -- of course, you’ll have to wait until the plane is flying over that particular state. On second thought, if you really have a hankering for rubber chicken, soggy sandwiches, and teeny-tiny bottles of chardonnay, play it safe and bring your plastic on-board.

http://legallad.quickanddirtytips.com/legal-tender.aspx


About the Host

Legal Lad host Adam Freedman is a lawyer and a regular columnist for the New York Law Journal and Vocabula Review. Freedman’s legal commentary has been featured in The New York Times, the Minneapolis Star-Tribune, and on Public Radio. He holds degrees from Yale, Oxford, and the University of Chicago.

So keep on posting about something you know nothing about :tup:

[DemonGeminiX]

Lawyer's can be wrong.

:nono:

[Teh One Who Knocks]

I can't 'ear you :corn:

http://i.imgur.com/N3vsN.jpg

[Teh One Who Knocks]

Lawyer's can be wrong.

:nono:

What about the United States Treasury? :-s

[DemonGeminiX]

What about the United States Treasury? :-s

I'm at the treasury website right now and I'm reading what they're saying. That's really weird. I would think that if businesses would give out change in the form of pennies, nickles, dimes, and quarters, that they would have to accept the same as payment. Seems like a double standard has been created here.

http://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/faqs/Currency/Pages/legal-tender.aspx

[Hal-9000]

I'm at the treasury website right now and I'm reading what they're saying. That's really weird. I would think that if businesses would give out change in the form of pennies, nickles, dimes, and quarters, that they would have to accept the same as payment. Seems like a double standard has been created here.

http://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/faqs/Currency/Pages/legal-tender.aspx

LOGIC PREVAILS


*kisses DGX*

[DemonGeminiX]

:oops:

[Teh One Who Knocks]

LOGIC PREVAILS


*kisses DGX*

What logic? :-s

The Treasury backs up the fact that a store (or any other business for that matter) is not required to take change as payment :nono:


Lance prevails! :cheers:






Oh...and the kissing of DGX? :-s

:gay:

[Hal-9000]

I'm going to try an experiment because Lance never prevails...

My next purchase at best Buy will be entirely in change.I'll keep you updated.

[Teh One Who Knocks]

Each business is allowed to make their own policy :nono:


And I already told you, Canadaland doesn't count :hand:

[DemonGeminiX]

One of these days, I'm going to roll into a business that has a "no coins policy" with just enough paper cash to be short one dollar, but with coins to make up the difference, and wait for them to say "we don't accept coins". I'll look the cashier dead in the eye and say "you do today" and wait to see what happens.

[Teh One Who Knocks]

One of these days, I'm going to roll into a business that has a "no coins policy" with just enough paper cash to be short one dollar, but with coins to make up the difference, and wait for them to say "we don't accept coins". I'll look the cashier dead in the eye and say "you do today" and wait to see what happens.

This is what will happen

:beatdown:

[DemonGeminiX]

This is what will happen

:beatdown:

Then they'll be owing me a lot more than change.

:dance:

[Teh One Who Knocks]

Then they'll be owing me a lot more than change.

:dance:

Not when you're buried out back behind the building :nono:

[DemonGeminiX]

Not when you're buried out back behind the building :nono:

:hand:

I'm not that easy to bury.

[Hal-9000]

So then every time a business tries to refund me any change, I'll put out my lower lip, give them a petulant look and say - I don't accept coins, that's my policy.

and then make them write me a check for the 87 cents

[Hal-9000]

Up here we have toonies and loonies, two dollar and one dollar coins.

If I pay for something small with a 10 dollar bill, quite often I will get a handful of change back.All change, no 5 dollar bills.

Imma complaining :dance:

[traveler]

Jean said she brought $32 in quarters to Save-a-Lot in Southeast Portland. After she grabbed her groceries, she waited until the checkout line cleared so she could pay.

Looks like she took that into consideration. Stupid, arbitrary rules that are enforced without regard for individual circumstances. You would think corporate America would learn from the BoFA fiasco.

[Hal-9000]

So Jean got shut down trying to pay with 32 dollars in change...

hmmmm, I'll make my Best Buy purchase 50 dollars minimum

[Teh One Who Knocks]

Jean said she brought $32 in quarters to Save-a-Lot in Southeast Portland. After she grabbed her groceries, she waited until the checkout line cleared so she could pay.

Looks like she took that into consideration. Stupid, arbitrary rules that are enforced without regard for individual circumstances. You would think corporate America would learn from the BoFA fiasco.

That's her version of the story ;)