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View Full Version : More Often Than Women, Sexually Abused Males Don't Talk About It



Teh One Who Knocks
11-20-2011, 09:47 PM
ABC World News with Diane Sawyer


http://i.imgur.com/kR5Ld.jpg

When the abuse began, Paul Treml was 14 years old, a schoolboy athlete, 5-feet 6-inches tall and 115 pounds.

His abuser, he said, was a decade older than him and seven inches taller, a hulking ex-college athlete who almost made it to the pros and who ran the youth sports league in Treml's Pennsylvania hometown.

"It was full sexual assault," said Treml, now 53, who left that league after two years of abuse. "Oral, anal. You name it. It was repeated and complete."

For 21 years after that torture ended, Treml, a soccer player who also ran track, kept the details secret from his even closest kin. (His abuser also happened, at the time, to be a family friend.)

He started smoking marijuana and drinking alcohol, trying to blot out the fear, shame, guilt, hurt and assorted confusions about his sexuality that abuse survivors and the clinicians who treat them say are particularly acute for sexually assaulted males in a culture still prone to telling boys not to cry and to always be ready to defend themselves.

Sexual predators, clinicians said, are keenly aware that those complexities fuel male reluctance to discuss what happened.

"Boys are less likely to disclose," said University of Massachusetts clinical psychologist David Lisak, who works with male victims and victimizers. Convicted Catholic "priests understood this dynamic and picked boys partly because they are less likely to be believed," he said.

Allegations that Jerry Sandusky, the former assistant football coach at powerhouse Penn State, was a serial child molester have brought those fraught realities to the fore at a time when, by the most frequently cited reference, an estimated one in six boys will be sexually assaulted before they turn 18.

"As a kid, you're completely frightened by what's happening to you. You don't know what to do or what to say," said Treml, global marketing manager for Pittsburgh Corning, and a regular public speaker on sexual abuse of men and boys.

"In my mind, no one would believe me. Or they'd think it was my fault or I was asking for this or I was homosexual. Those emotions become so powerful you become numb. Then you just go into denial," added Treml, who is associated with the Pennsylvania Coalition Against Rape and its sister organization, the National Sexual Violence Resource Center.

That he managed eventually to confront his abuser and tell his family, including his wife and two children -- to say nothing of going on the speaking circuit -- puts Treml in that rare number of abused boys and men who dare to face the truth of what happened to them and share that story.

While rape is traumatic for everyone, boys and men are more likely than girls or women to keep that violence to themselves for extended periods of time -- if not, forever -- and to grapple with a host of mental and emotional ills that accompany their decision, clinicians said.

"It's somehow much more shameful for a male to admit to being abused. It not only stirs their sense of weakness about being victimized but also the whole issue of sexual attitude and identity," said Dr. David Reiss, who, during more than 25 years as a practicing psychiatrist, has mainly treated adults who were abused as children, including sexually assaulted males.

"If a woman is abused, obviously there are traumas and effects from that," added Reiss, the interim medical director at Providence Behavioral Hospital in Holyoke, Mass., chiefly overseeing children and adolescent care. "In society's point of view -- and it's a negative view -- women can be seen as having attracted that attention. But it doesn't detract from her sexuality externally, even if, internally, it causes a lot of other problems."

Such allowances are hardly afforded males, he said. For them, "there's a different cultural dynamic at play that makes it much more difficult for a man to ever acknowledge having been abused."

The 1 in 6 estimate is arguable, given that many males' refuse to admit they've been assaulted. But the real youth behind that count show up in such facilities as the Child Trauma Center at Chicago's La Rabida Children's Hospital and CornerHouse in Minneapolis, Minn.

Services at the latter include forensic interviews of child victims of alleged abuse who number 500 per year. A third of that total are boys, and 85 percent of those have been sexually violated, said social worker Patricia Harmon, Cornerhouse's executive director.

"The boys can be a lot more closed about what happened. There's a clear sense of shame," she said.

"The biggest difference with the boys is that there's usually a [post-assault] concern about sexual orientation that they have or their families have, or both," said psychologist Bradley Stolbach, director of the Chicago trauma center and a clinical pediatrics professor at the University of Chicago Pritzker School of Medicine.

"There's this notion that if you've been abused by a man, that will make you gay," Stolbach said. "If a child has a concept of what that is, it just adds another layer of fear and anxiety."

That's one major challenge. Another involves diagnosis and treatment of the mental and emotional ills that sexual assault almost invariably triggers. Sexual assault victims often are said to be suffering from something akin to post-traumatic stress syndrome, but that oversimplifies the issue, psychiatrist Reiss said.

Clinically, PTSD sufferers cannot differentiate between present and past events.

"Rather than [trauma] being filed in their brains as a memory, it hangs there as an experience that, periodically, they actively are re-living," he said.

Sexual assault victims, he said, suffer more immediately from "affective dysregulation, a technical name for saying you've not learned how to comfort yourself or be close to someone without feeling danger at the same time."

"What's more devastating is what being sexually abused does to a person's ability to trust and be intimate," Reiss said. "There's a confusing about what's pleasure and what's pain, confusion about whether being close to someone is a welcome thing or frightening. ... 'If I go to someone for safety, will they hurt me instead?' And all of that is more devastating to their everyday life than intermittent PTSD."

It bears noting that boys who are sexually abused by women suffer all of that as well as those victimized by men, Reiss said.

"And it can be even harder for men to plow through that because, stereotypically, you were supposed to enjoy that, see yourself as being precocious and indulging a fantasy when, in fact, that abuse is really quite disrupting," he said.

Many men who do not reveal their history of having been abused or get help aimed as at easing that angst respond in extreme ways, including becoming hypersexual, hyper-macho and a "sadomasochism in which the enjoyment of sex necessitates fear or pain, which becomes any way of avoiding intimacy," Reiss said.

It showed in Pennsylvanian Treml's marriage, he said, as habitual lying to his wife about a whole slew of things. His wife's probing of whether some awful childhood thing had left him so broken is what pushed him to eventually tell what happened, he said.

His wife, a lawyer, also was the person who successfully persuaded her husband's hometown to change the name of a municipal park that was briefly named after Treml's abuser, a former parks and recreation director for that town who, Treml said, surrounded himself back then with about a dozen boys who also were relatively small in stature.

Fighting back against one's abuser and the abused can take many forms, Treml said. When he was in his 30s, he confronted the man, who, in the years after abusing Treml, pleaded no contest to a charge of corrupting minors by supplying alcohol to boys from school for troubled kids.

"Telling my whole family was a big part of my healing process," Treml said, adding that he's in touch with two other boys from his childhood who were assaulted by the same man. They have chosen not to speak up about it.

"Being able to speak about it publicly is extremely empowering. It's how I've gone from being a victim to being a survivor," Treml said. "The way I look at all of this is if I can help one kid, I've done my job."

Particularly for men, being vocal about what they've endured "takes a lot of courage," Reiss said. "It takes courage to say you've been taken advantage of, and courage to accept that, if you're going to deal with this, you're going to feel much worse before you feel better.

"On many different levels, it also takes courage to deal friends and family who don't want to believe you, and, after you tell it, to lose friends and family who themselves have been abused and don't want to acknowledge that. Quite often, in my own practice, that's what I see."

Godfather
11-20-2011, 09:55 PM
Really sad and scary. Interesting article though.

My boss won't let his 9 year old kid play on sports teams, change in a change-room, be babysat by anyone but family, play in a fenced backyard with friends if there's no supervision, walk to the corner store for a slurpee with friends. This kid was visiting his dad at the office one day, and he wasn't allowed to walk to the car within sight, 20 yards from where we were sitting.

That's messed up compared to the way most of us grew up. Makes me really sad for this kid, because he's scared of the world now too.

But I don't have kids... with all the messed up shit in the world today it must be a tough time being a parent.

Teh One Who Knocks
11-20-2011, 09:58 PM
Really sad and scary. Interesting article though.

My boss won't let his 9 year old kid play on sports teams, change in a change-room, be babysat by anyone but family, play in a fenced backyard with friends if there's no supervision, walk to the corner store for a slurpee with friends. This kid was visiting his dad at the office one day, and he wasn't allowed to walk to the car within sight, 20 yards from where we were sitting.

That's messed up compared to the way most of us grew up. Makes me really sad for this kid, because he's scared of the world now too.

But I don't have kids... with all the messed up shit in the world today it must be a tough time being a parent.

It's one thing to be careful, but that's waaaaaaaaaay overboard IMO.

Godfather
11-20-2011, 10:10 PM
It's one thing to be careful, but that's waaaaaaaaaay overboard IMO.

I fully agree. I could go on about the shit they do to this kid for hours. It startles me, I kinda pity the awkward little guy when I see him. All of it, in the end, because they think he'll be raped and murdered. :wha:

JoeyB
11-20-2011, 11:39 PM
Makes me really sad for this kid, because he's scared of the world now too.

I've been saying this for about 15-20 years now...we are making children who are paranoid and not properly integrated into an open society. 'Stranger Danger' and all that stuff goes too far...

I also earnestly believe that we are not experiencing more child rape or abduction...I just think we hear about it more these days.


I fully agree. I could go on about the shit they do to this kid for hours. It startles me, I kinda pity the awkward little guy when I see him. All of it, in the end, because they think he'll be raped and murdered. :wha:

My mother was very very overprotective of me, whereas my father basically didn't give a fuck what I did, one way or another. Either way will mess you up.

Hal-9000
11-21-2011, 04:01 AM
I think we need to start warning children about predators earlier and in a frank fashion.Explain that there are adults and other kids that have problems and if anyone touches you in your creepy place or makes you feel scared, get away from them asap and tell mommy and daddy.

I'm not talking about shielding the child from the world like in GF's post, just the opposite in fact.Some words of advice phrased like above, in a language younger children can relate to and understand.Let them know that if someone makes them feel anxious or scared, it's ok not to do what they say.

deebakes
11-21-2011, 04:41 AM
did rbp write this article as part of his school studies? :-k

RBP
11-21-2011, 04:54 AM
did rbp write this article as part of his school studies? :-k

I haven't had a chance to read it yet... but I will and will comment.

DemonGeminiX
11-21-2011, 05:03 AM
I'll take that as a "no".

JoeyB
11-21-2011, 06:54 AM
I think we need to start warning children about predators earlier and in a frank fashion.Explain that there are adults and other kids that have problems and if anyone touches you in your creepy place or makes you feel scared, get away from them asap and tell mommy and daddy.

I'm not talking about shielding the child from the world like in GF's post, just the opposite in fact.Some words of advice phrased like above, in a language younger children can relate to and understand.Let them know that if someone makes them feel anxious or scared, it's ok not to do what they say.

If you ever spawn I'll be happy to stop by and explain the horrors of the world to your children.

Noilly Pratt
11-21-2011, 07:18 AM
We told our daughter at an early age that there are good people in this world, and there are bad ones -- the good outnumber the bad, but there are some damaged people out there who might want to hurt you...and on from there. I am definitely a doting dad, but you can go too far as with your example, GF.

People like that think they're helping their child by hermetically sealing them away from danger, but in fact we're creating a paranoid society who will only want to interact through computers. At the age of 8 or 9, you've got to hope that all you've taught them about not talking with strangers, no touching in certain areas etc, has stuck. You have to trust in your kid a little. It's true -- none of my daughter's friends really go walking to the corner store like I did at that age....it's just not done.

You have 'play dates' and parents bus their kids to another's yard for a few hours. We never did that - it was just hanging out with the kids in the neighbourhood and only staying within your block. We used to bug the mechanic next door and pet his dog Robo, then walk across the street to Ben's market to get 2 cent candies.

And I think Joey's right...the stats aren't much higher than before. It's sad but it's the majority, not the minority.

JoeyB
11-21-2011, 07:29 AM
We told our daughter at an early age that there are good people in this world, and there are bad ones -- the good outnumber the bad, but there are some damaged people out there who might want to hurt you...and on from there. I am definitely a doting dad, but you can go too far as with your example, GF.

People like that think they're helping their child by hermetically sealing them away from danger, but in fact we're creating a paranoid society who will only want to interact through computers. At the age of 8 or 9, you've got to hope that all you've taught them about not talking with strangers, no touching in certain areas etc, has stuck. You have to trust in your kid a little. It's true -- none of my daughter's friends really go walking to the corner store like I did at that age....it's just not done.

You have 'play dates' and parents bus their kids to another's yard for a few hours. We never did that - it was just hanging out with the kids in the neighbourhood and only staying within your block. We used to bug the mechanic next door and pet his dog Robo, then walk across the street to Ben's market to get 2 cent candies.

And I think Joey's right...the stats aren't much higher than before. It's sad but it's the majority, not the minority.

Oh, thanks for reading! I used to do a lot of bicycle riding, including the half mile away to a 7-11 for candy and slurpees and possibly comics or trading cards. No helmet either. I was alone and unsupervised. It was just what kids did, sad to think they might not be doing that anymore.

Godfather
11-21-2011, 08:15 AM
So why does balance seem to be more and more rare these days? I agree with Hal and Noilly and Joey. Either extreme is brutal on a kid.

Sometimes growing up I felt like I had a few more rules and restrictions than some other friends but generally my parents were very reasonable, normal people. They kept me safe but let me be a kid who played street-hockey until dusk and ran around in the woods. When we were a reasonable age we could go to get Slurpees in groups, no talking to strangers or going any further than the store. If I have kids, their rules will be very similar.

But there was one kid who would show up to play hockey from two blocks away, unsupervised from about age 5. Startling how little his parents cared. And then again there are kids like my boss' - my boss caught his boy at age 8 playing hockey with a group of boys in the parking lot of a friend's gated townhouse complex with no parents there... and now his son isn't allowed over there anymore :roll:

Teh One Who Knocks
11-21-2011, 11:49 AM
The big problem as brought up by GF's and Joey's posts is that if you are an adult, you can't even look at a kid anymore without getting weird looks form the parents who think you are going to kidnap and murder their kid. It's a sad world in that respect now.

RBP
11-21-2011, 03:30 PM
Interesting article. Thanks. All the more reason to be fully aware that boys are a different matter than girls and are far too often overlooked. I am thrilled that female on male violence was even given a mention, it's rarely even acknowledged. Well, unless we read a teacher-student story and then ya'll don't take it very seriously anyway.

RBP
11-21-2011, 03:34 PM
And now an inappropriate joke about stranger danger...

Man convinces a child to walk into the woods with him.
As they get deeper into the woods, it gets darker and more ominous.
The child starts to get fearful... "I am getting scared mister..."

Man says, "You thing you're scared? I have to walk out of here alone!"

8-[

Acid Trip
11-21-2011, 03:38 PM
And now an inappropriate joke about stranger danger...

Man convinces a child to walk into the woods with him.
As they get deeper into the woods, it gets darker and more ominous.
The child starts to get fearful... "I am getting scared mister..."

Man says, "You thing you're scared? I have to walk out of here alone!"

8-[

:rimshot:

Teh One Who Knocks
11-21-2011, 03:39 PM
And now an inappropriate joke about stranger danger...

Man convinces a child to walk into the woods with him.
As they get deeper into the woods, it gets darker and more ominous.
The child starts to get fearful... "I am getting scared mister..."

Man says, "You thing you're scared? I have to walk out of here alone!"

8-[

That's older than the stains on your underwear :hand:

Acid Trip
11-21-2011, 03:41 PM
That's older than the stains on your underwear :hand:

:snap: :burn:

JoeyB
11-21-2011, 09:52 PM
The big problem as brought up by GF's and Joey's posts is that if you are an adult, you can't even look at a kid anymore without getting weird looks form the parents who think you are going to kidnap and murder their kid. It's a sad world in that respect now.

A few years back there was a story on the news about a little girl (I forget the age, but a toddler) who was wandering about in the middle of a road with no supervision. A lady stopped her car, grabbed the girl, and then took her home, apparently the girl could speak and knew where it was.

This made the news because the girl's mother didn't even know she was out of the house...and also because a stranger saved the kid.

While listening to this with my mother and sister, I suddenly realized something and shared it with them. I said that, given the way society reacts to things these days, I don't think I could have saved that girl...because if I, as a man, pulled over in the middle of the road and GRABBED A KID OFF THE STREET people would freak out...I'd be in jail charged with abduction and labeled a pedophile in no time. Nobody would believe my 'crazy story' that this little girl was just there in the middle of the road...nope, I would be a molester who got caught.

Think about it...society has made things such that I would actually have to debate rescuing a kid or not.

Godfather
11-21-2011, 10:01 PM
That's too true Joey. Really sad that we're the bad sex, especially after dark.

Victoria where I went to University is a very college town and yet public transit sucks balls.

Driving home from friends' houses or the library a lot of nights I'd see young girls (uni students) walking home alone or waiting at a bus stop. I'm not sure what shitty friends these people have that let their girl friends walk alone at night but I would have happily pulled over and driven them home (My mother's friend growing up was murdered walking home alone from a party, so she raised my brother and I never to let girl friends walk home alone, even if it meant missing curfew).

But I'm quite sure if I pulled over and offered them a ride, at 1am in the morning driving a black SUV, the Police would be out looking for me :wha: Anyways, getting into a strange man's car (even a young student) is even more stupid as walking home alone I guess.

Hal-9000
11-21-2011, 10:06 PM
And now an inappropriate joke about stranger danger...

Man convinces a child to walk into the woods with him.
As they get deeper into the woods, it gets darker and more ominous.
The child starts to get fearful... "I am getting scared mister..."

Man says, "You thing you're scared? I have to walk out of here alone!"

8-[

I have worser....:oops:

What did the pedophile say the morning he was released from prison after serving a 20 year prison sentence?
Gee, I feel like a kid again!








I'm ashamed :coat:

Hal-9000
11-21-2011, 10:11 PM
A few years back there was a story on the news about a little girl (I forget the age, but a toddler) who was wandering about in the middle of a road with no supervision. A lady stopped her car, grabbed the girl, and then took her home, apparently the girl could speak and knew where it was.

This made the news because the girl's mother didn't even know she was out of the house...and also because a stranger saved the kid.

While listening to this with my mother and sister, I suddenly realized something and shared it with them. I said that, given the way society reacts to things these days, I don't think I could have saved that girl...because if I, as a man, pulled over in the middle of the road and GRABBED A KID OFF THE STREET people would freak out...I'd be in jail charged with abduction and labeled a pedophile in no time. Nobody would believe my 'crazy story' that this little girl was just there in the middle of the road...nope, I would be a molester who got caught.

Think about it...society has made things such that I would actually have to debate rescuing a kid or not.

I've lived near a park and an elementary school since time began.You can tell which screams, laughs are playing and which are serious in nature...

One day I was driving past the school and heard a young girl yelling and screaming.I drove up to see an older guy holding up a little girl by her arm, her legs were almost off of the ground.I got out of my car and said hello right to the little girl and started asking her questions.The guy tried to interrupt me and I ignored him.Finally I asked if he was her daddy? I'll never forget the sad look she gave me when she said yes.

I was still in the tough guy mode and looked the guy square in the eyes and said - I live right over there, stop abusing your child in public.

got in my car while he was still bellowing and swearing at me, right in front of a 6 year old kid :(

Godfather
11-21-2011, 10:13 PM
I've lived near a park and an elementary school since time began.You can tell which screams, laughs are playing and which are serious in nature...

One day I was driving past the school and heard a young girl yelling and screaming.I drove up to see an older guy holding up a little girl by her arm, her legs were almost off of the ground.I got out of my car and said hello right to the little girl and started asking her questions.The guy tried to interrupt me and I ignored him.Finally I asked if he was her daddy? I'll never forget the sad look she gave me when she said yes.

I was still in the tough guy mode and looked the guy square in the eyes and said - I live right over there, stop abusing your child in public.

got in my car while he was still bellowing and swearing at me, right in front of a 6 year old kid :(

Kinda makes you want to put on a mask and cape and go Unbreakable on his ass one night doesn't it....

Hal-9000
11-21-2011, 10:18 PM
I don't mind saying it hurt me man....I couldn't do nothing and got the creeping feeling that something should be done with that guy...like that day wasn't the first or last time :(

Teh One Who Knocks
11-21-2011, 10:19 PM
A few years back there was a story on the news about a little girl (I forget the age, but a toddler) who was wandering about in the middle of a road with no supervision. A lady stopped her car, grabbed the girl, and then took her home, apparently the girl could speak and knew where it was.

This made the news because the girl's mother didn't even know she was out of the house...and also because a stranger saved the kid.

While listening to this with my mother and sister, I suddenly realized something and shared it with them. I said that, given the way society reacts to things these days, I don't think I could have saved that girl...because if I, as a man, pulled over in the middle of the road and GRABBED A KID OFF THE STREET people would freak out...I'd be in jail charged with abduction and labeled a pedophile in no time. Nobody would believe my 'crazy story' that this little girl was just there in the middle of the road...nope, I would be a molester who got caught.

Think about it...society has made things such that I would actually have to debate rescuing a kid or not.

Couldn't agree more....

RBP
11-21-2011, 11:40 PM
A few years back there was a story on the news about a little girl (I forget the age, but a toddler) who was wandering about in the middle of a road with no supervision. A lady stopped her car, grabbed the girl, and then took her home, apparently the girl could speak and knew where it was.

This made the news because the girl's mother didn't even know she was out of the house...and also because a stranger saved the kid.

While listening to this with my mother and sister, I suddenly realized something and shared it with them. I said that, given the way society reacts to things these days, I don't think I could have saved that girl...because if I, as a man, pulled over in the middle of the road and GRABBED A KID OFF THE STREET people would freak out...I'd be in jail charged with abduction and labeled a pedophile in no time. Nobody would believe my 'crazy story' that this little girl was just there in the middle of the road...nope, I would be a molester who got caught.

Think about it...society has made things such that I would actually have to debate rescuing a kid or not.

yup...

Joebob034
11-21-2011, 11:57 PM
I don't talk about it cuz JoeyB made me promise not to tell

JoeyB
11-22-2011, 12:05 AM
I don't talk about it cuz JoeyB made me promise not to tell

By the way, did you get those little girl panties and that lipstick I was discussing?

Joebob034
11-22-2011, 01:25 AM
By the way, did you get those little girl panties and that lipstick I was discussing?

maybe 8-[