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Teh One Who Knocks
03-01-2011, 10:22 PM
Stuart Fox, InnovationNewsDaily Assistant Editor, LiveScience.com


WASHINGTON, D.C. — In a room full of scientists, and with a slate of Nobel Prize winners and bureaucrats scheduled to speak, it took a movie star to demand that everyone stop playing make-believe. Giving the keynote address at the APRA-E Energy Innovation Summit here today (March 1), Arnold Schwarzenegger issued forth a call to end the false debate over climate science, to stop assuming China will provide new green tech cheaper and faster than the United States, and to stop pretending that global warming won't affect people for decades.

Using analogies to leverage every aspect of his history, Schwarzenegger made the case that transitioning to a green economy, fixing the environment and ending political stalemate over carbon legislation fell well within the power of today's technology and today's political climate.

"We want a new era of energy independence, a new era of green technology and green jobs, a new era of better health from a cleaner environment, and a new era of American inventiveness," Schwarzenegger said.

The former governor and action-firm superstar compared the current debate over climate change to the state of bodybuilding when he entered that sport in the late 1960s. A pervasive fear of weightlifting's effects led celebrities to disavow their own exercise routines, and produced euphemisms when discussing the activity. However, scientific evidence eventually came to support the health benefits of weightlifting, and today talk about abs and pecs is common. Confident in having brought weightlifting to the mainstream, Schwarzenegger told the audience he hopes to do the same for climate science.

Schwarzenegger also linked a future green economy to the current unrest in the Mideast, both literally and figuratively. He suggested that the overthrow of foreign dictators seemed impossible a month ago but now seems inevitable. Similarly, he believes that defeatism about the ability of a green revolution to change America will soon look absurd as well.

More directly, the former California governor also pointed to the recent volatility in oil prices resulting from Middle Eastern revolutions as a perfect example of why the U.S. needs to wean itself off foreign oil.

"Why should a dried-up desert country with a crazy dictator like Libya play havoc with America's energy future?" said Schwarzenegger.

In a closing point that struck the deepest chord with the audience, the erstwhile Terminator, who first made his mark in action films as Conan the Barbarian, identified the ARPA-E attendees as the primary agents for the change he advocated.

"I've made a lot of action movies in the past, so I know about action. And you are the true people of action," Schwarzenegger said. "Conan was asked, 'What is best in life?' He answered, 'To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentations of the women.' Now, my views have evolved since. But my point is that Conan was not big on philosophy or navel-gazing. He was big on action, just like you."

The ARPA-E (Advanced Research Projects Agency-Energy) summit runs through tomorrow (March 2).

Hal-9000
03-01-2011, 10:28 PM
"Why should a dried-up desert country with a crazy dictator like Libya play havoc with America's energy future?" said Schwarzenegger.



there is hint of IQ in that big cranium..

Godfather
03-01-2011, 10:33 PM
Good for Arnie :thumbsup:

RBP
03-01-2011, 10:37 PM
I'm skeptical about this article. 8-[

DemonGeminiX
03-01-2011, 10:42 PM
I can't believe he quoted this in an inspirational speech:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kkSFIWzi7aA&feature=related

Godfather
03-01-2011, 10:42 PM
This stuff is still hard for people... there are a lot out there who don't want to believe in climate change.. or even that we're doing harm to the planet. And if you can look at all the evidence and still say we're not fucking this planet up, you have some interesting vision.

But the problem is that this is overwhelming

People really need to understand the concept of thinking global and acting local. Do what you can in your neighborhood, or even just your own household. You don't need to turn into some crazy 'believer' running around the block with signs that say 'The end is near.'

Just take short showers, drive a smaller car and recycle :lol: And when it comes time to vote, take the environment into consideration.. we might still be fucked, but at least ya tried :P

I just really sick of reading people talk about how it's all just a hoax... it simply isn't. And you can show that there are some preposterous exaggerations towards the other side... but that's not helpful either.

I dono.. I'm ranting..

DemonGeminiX
03-01-2011, 10:45 PM
:-s

Short showers? Are you nuts?

Godfather
03-01-2011, 10:47 PM
Wank faster dammit!

Fresh water is going to go bye-bye :lol:

Teh One Who Knocks
03-01-2011, 10:48 PM
*goes outside and starts a coal fire....throws some old tires on it for good measure*

Godfather
03-01-2011, 10:50 PM
*adds old paint from garage and stash of plastic bags from the grocery store*

DemonGeminiX
03-01-2011, 10:51 PM
Wank faster dammit!

Fresh water is going to go bye-bye :lol:

:hand:

That's my me-time you're messin with, buddy.


[-(

Godfather
03-01-2011, 10:53 PM
Maybe if you let me join you once in a while we could save a little water...

DemonGeminiX
03-01-2011, 10:54 PM
:shock:

Southern Belle
03-01-2011, 10:54 PM
I agree with most of it. We all need to recycle, use fewer resources, find better sources of energy. I'm just not sure that the steps we're taking as a nation are going in the right direction. Electric cars for instance, yeah they reduce emissions, but still use coal powered energy to charge. Just not a great long term solution imo.

RBP
03-01-2011, 10:55 PM
Maybe if you let me join you once in a while we could save a little water...

Yeah fly to Georgia to save water. You go, Al Gore. :lol:

Southern Belle
03-01-2011, 10:58 PM
:lol:

Godfather
03-01-2011, 10:59 PM
I agree with most of it. We all need to recycle, use fewer resources, find better sources of energy. I'm just not sure that the steps we're taking as a nation are going in the right direction. Electric cars for instance, yeah they reduce emissions, but still use coal powered energy to charge. Just not a great long term solution imo.

Yeah there a lot of mistakes being made on the way not doubt... and people like Al Gore give it all a bad name

There are locals who do the same :roll: I have a 'friend' who flew all the way down to the bottom of South American and back for a week.. he came back and the first time I saw him he made some snarky comment about the care I drive... uhh.. the emissions of flying that far are about the same as me commuting to work for an entire year you jackass. This guy and his hippy friend sit around and play video games on a big ol' energy wasting TV and complain about the 'environment man.'

The guy makes me want to throw my empties in the trash... prick.

Hal-9000
03-01-2011, 11:00 PM
the Earth has finite resources and more people living on it every year....it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that we need to start doing things differently.

as Belle very wisely mentioned, it's how you address the problem that will make the difference :thumbsup:

Teh One Who Knocks
03-01-2011, 11:01 PM
*turns on all the water faucets in my apartment*

Godfather
03-01-2011, 11:02 PM
I agree hal.. and like Arnie seems to recognize.. the sociology or conceptions of it are a huge hurdle.

People hear Gore ramble on and it discredits what is essentially hard science showing how many different ways from Sunday we're f'ing the planet up (carbon emissions being just one of them)

RBP
03-01-2011, 11:02 PM
The guy makes me want to throw my empties in the trash... prick.

:lol: That made me laugh out loud! Let's not get too crazy now.

Hal-9000
03-01-2011, 11:04 PM
:lol:

GF and his radical hippie-gene acting up again

Hugh_Janus
03-01-2011, 11:05 PM
:-s

Short showers? Are you nuts?
I know right.... anyone that has quick showers doesn't wash themselves properly

Wank faster dammit!

Fresh water is going to go bye-bye :lol:

I've never had one in the shower.... in fact, I've never been able to get it up in the shower :lol:

Godfather
03-01-2011, 11:05 PM
:lol: That made me laugh out loud! Let's not get too crazy now.

:lol: It's all about the passion man

DemonGeminiX
03-01-2011, 11:05 PM
Yeah fly to Georgia to save water. You go, Al Gore. :lol:

:-s

He should fly to Chicago. No really, it's closer.

Godfather
03-01-2011, 11:08 PM
I've never had one in the shower.... in fact, I've never been able to get it up in the shower :lol:

Stay away from Shampoo... god it stings... Conditioner is the way to go

Southern Belle
03-01-2011, 11:11 PM
Wind farms are common in the UK but my husband doesn't see them as a viable source of substitute power because they produce intermittently. I think they are a good source but probably expensive for the output. I'd like to see a day when every home has a wind mill and solar system. That will require research and development.

minz
03-01-2011, 11:13 PM
Wind farms are common in the UK but my husband doesn't see them as a viable source of substitute power because they produce intermittently. I think they are a good source but probably expensive for the output. I'd like to see a day when every home has a wind mill and solar system. That will require research and development.

It still surprises me that new builds are not being built with compulsory solar panelling, you would think they would be by now?

DemonGeminiX
03-01-2011, 11:14 PM
It's too expensive. The cost has to come down.

Teh One Who Knocks
03-01-2011, 11:14 PM
Have the oceans risen and flooded the world yet? I wanna go dolphin fishing off my deck :-k

Godfather
03-01-2011, 11:15 PM
It's too expensive. The cost has to come down.

Exactly

Technology usually has to be pretty dammed economically viable before people jump on board... you think everyone ran out and bought a car when they debuted? They had to be cheaper than horses in the very short-term before it really took off

I think that's a fairly apt example.. people don't really care if things are better for reasons x,y and z until it makes sense in terms of $$$$

minz
03-01-2011, 11:15 PM
It's too expensive. The cost has to come down.

Its not as expensive as it used to be, a couple of grand tops, or it was the last time I looked.

Southern Belle
03-01-2011, 11:16 PM
That's the drawback with most alternative energy, people just can't afford it. Yet.

Hugh_Janus
03-01-2011, 11:17 PM
Stay away from Shampoo... god it stings... Conditioner is the way to go

it wouldn't work even with assistance, so its never going to happen on my own.... with conditioner or any other lube :lol:

DemonGeminiX
03-01-2011, 11:23 PM
Its not as expensive as it used to be, a couple of grand tops, or it was the last time I looked.

It cost more than just a couple of thousand over here in our country.

Hal-9000
03-01-2011, 11:23 PM
It's too expensive. The cost has to come down.

and over 100 dollars for a barrel of oil is viable?


it all depends on your mindset I guess....

minz
03-01-2011, 11:27 PM
It cost more than just a couple of thousand over here in our country.

My energy bills yearly are around £1,300.00 so its a viable option for me... Now if we could just get the sun to shine a bit more. :-k

Godfather
03-01-2011, 11:31 PM
We should look to natural gas more first...

Pretty hilarious when you think about it.. that this whole world runs on fossil fuel though. Jesus we're dumb :lol:

Hal-9000
03-01-2011, 11:32 PM
I think...the world economy is so dependent on oil (not just for energy or heating) that we've become complacent.

oh well, it's worked for all these years, we can't change it now....

anti-green folk always talk about the cost for new sources and methods of energy...well if you tally the cost of exploration, drilling, refining and transporting oil....this world already spends a fair buck on energy :rolleyes:

but as Kevin once wisely pointed out...oil is used is so many OTHER products, it will be a complete wholesale change moving to something else.

Southern Belle
03-01-2011, 11:34 PM
They get better tax credits over there.
You can put in a small solar system to supplement conventional power for a very few thousand.

I'd like to put in an underground closed loop heating system with the fans and thermostats powered by solar and a solar water heater.

minz
03-01-2011, 11:34 PM
For me its not so much cost, I just dont want to be held to ransom by the greedy oil companies, maybe thats my rebellious streak coming out. :lol:

Godfather
03-01-2011, 11:35 PM
I think...the world economy is so dependent on oil (not just for energy or heating) that we've become complacent.

oh well, it's worked for all these years, we can't change it now....

anti-green folk always talk about the cost for new sources and methods of energy...well if you tally the cost of exploration, drilling, refining and transporting oil....this world already spends a fair buck on energy :rolleyes:

but as Kevin once wisely pointed out...oil is used is so many OTHER products, it will be a complete wholesale change moving to something else.

We just need to hope 'peak oil' doesn't come to pass as some some extremists claim it will look :wha:

Southern Belle
03-01-2011, 11:36 PM
For me its not so much cost, I just dont want to be held to ransom by the greedy oil companies, maybe thats my rebellious streak coming out. :lol:

:tup:

Noilly Pratt
03-02-2011, 12:03 AM
There's lots of places to lessen your impact. I put a low flow shower head in, and when my toilet stopped working, I rebuilt it so that it takes 1/2 the water to flush (just go on the internet - I'm all thumbs usually but I managed to figure it out). America has stricter standards about maximum toilet capacities compared to Canada I found out. So when metered water comes in here, I'll be ready and I'm using less than the U.S. standard right now.

I replaced my water heater with something more efficient (no brainer - all the new ones are more efficient than those from 1978!) - same with my Washer, Dryer and all the kitchen appliances as they started failing - usually 1 per year. And with no hardship to us at all except for the expense, which was needed, anyway.

I phoned to ask if they could send me old records vs new for electricity, and they said that for 10 years (when I got married) it's steadily gone down to me using less than half of what I used before. It's all about the small changes adding up.

They asked me what I did a few months ago as it dropped drastically then -- I replaced an dinky little 10 year old apartment sized fridge with a big full-sized one - but an energy efficient one.

Teh One Who Knocks
03-02-2011, 12:04 AM
America has stricter standards about maximum toilet capacities compared to Canada I found out. So when metered water comes in here, I'll be ready and I'm using less than the U.S. standard right now.

:usa:

RBP
03-02-2011, 12:11 AM
If it's yellow, be mellow.
If it's brown, flush it down.

Peace.

Godfather
03-02-2011, 12:20 AM
Where do you stand on fapkins :-k

RBP
03-02-2011, 12:23 AM
It's more environmentally friendly to swallow. :lol:

Joebob034
03-02-2011, 03:46 AM
wow some actual political insight from the governator who knew?

Southern Belle
03-02-2011, 10:44 AM
There's lots of places to lessen your impact. I put a low flow shower head in, and when my toilet stopped working, I rebuilt it so that it takes 1/2 the water to flush (just go on the internet - I'm all thumbs usually but I managed to figure it out). America has stricter standards about maximum toilet capacities compared to Canada I found out. So when metered water comes in here, I'll be ready and I'm using less than the U.S. standard right now.

I replaced my water heater with something more efficient (no brainer - all the new ones are more efficient than those from 1978!) - same with my Washer, Dryer and all the kitchen appliances as they started failing - usually 1 per year. And with no hardship to us at all except for the expense, which was needed, anyway.

I phoned to ask if they could send me old records vs new for electricity, and they said that for 10 years (when I got married) it's steadily gone down to me using less than half of what I used before. It's all about the small changes adding up.

They asked me what I did a few months ago as it dropped drastically then -- I replaced an dinky little 10 year old apartment sized fridge with a big full-sized one - but an energy efficient one.

I expect to have to replace my water heater before long and I'll likely go with a tankless model. I also need to put a vapor barrier in the crawl space and add insulation in the attic.

lost in melb.
03-02-2011, 01:21 PM
*goes outside and starts a coal fire....throws some old tires on it for good measure*

*plants tree on ashes* :slap:


We should look to natural gas more first...

Pretty hilarious when you think about it.. that this whole world runs on fossil fuel though. Jesus we're dumb :lol:

Exactly. Believe in GW and CC or not, fuel prices are going up. Electricity is getting f'ing expensive. I want to be buying solar cells from OZ or the US, not China...


If it's yellow, be mellow.
If it's brown, flush it down.

Peace.

Hahaha

Teh One Who Knocks
03-02-2011, 01:32 PM
*plants tree on ashes* :slap:

*salts earth around trees*

AntZ
03-02-2011, 11:06 PM
I'll start listening to Arnie right after he scraps his fleet of luxury private jets and takes his family on flying Southwest Airlines! :roll:

*Adds Arnie to the long list of shameful hypocrites that think just acting "concerned" makes up for their past and future years of disregard*

AntZ
03-02-2011, 11:10 PM
This all reminds me of Obama's concern of the environment after the news that broke about him flying out his personal fitness trainer once a week, from Chicago, for a day of light workouts!

FBD
03-03-2011, 01:01 PM
I agree hal.. and like Arnie seems to recognize.. the sociology or conceptions of it are a huge hurdle.

People hear Gore ramble on and it discredits what is essentially hard science showing how many different ways from Sunday we're f'ing the planet up (carbon emissions being just one of them)
*chuckles* There's a difference between prudent resource usage, prudent waste management....and a farcical aquatic creature handing out swords...

Er, I mean...the carbon theory has more holes in it than the broad side of a redneck's buckshot-ridden barn. TAXES are the only reason it is being pushed by all these friggin politicians. Sure, some of them are genuinely naive enough to actually believe the carbon hogwash, or ideological enough, but most level headed people dont want to cap our economic output so we "might" be able to save...oh, about .1% of statistical noise in temperature fluctuations.

Energy moves the world. Lots of people make lots of money making energy that moves the world. Lots of politicians see how much money a carbon tax would generate for them to piss away like they piss away the vast majority of the rest of our tax dollars. Its pretty goddam simple.


You want to bet the country's economic future on a couple half baked models that dont accurately describe reality? (The fatal flaws in the models push it well into "not even CLOSE" on anything but very short term, right after a data calibration...there are some decent fluid dynamics equations, but, they kill it by arbitrarily overweighting favored coefficients) ....dude, the models cannot make predictions, and the longer you go forward in time, the further they are away from reality. That's why they need to be re-calibrated to reality...often. There are more natural carbon sinks than are considered in the fantasy models that respond more than the models give them credit for. The absorption band for CO2 is way up the logarithmic curve, it is pretty well saturated. The models assume the earth is some sort of closed system and things "get trapped inside"....its just utterly fucking contrived and ridiculous, I honestly cant believe people still subscribe to this bullshit!!!

Godfather
03-03-2011, 04:26 PM
Ok dude :lol:

I'm sorry you've found a way to view it in such a skewed way but I have zero interest in debating it with you.


Welcome to the forum though :mrgreen:

FBD
03-03-2011, 05:22 PM
No problem gf :) I'm not really interested in debating fictional contrivances either - but if you break it down, energy costs are *highly* correlated with development, and that's where the "betting economic future" thing comes from - because there's a lot of business effects that flow forth from energy policy. Every time you impose more costs and regulations on businesses, you wind up with less and less new startup businesses, and most regulations inadvertently or not favor larger more entrenched businesses. Less competition, less innovation, higher consumer costs. People wind up with less money in their pockets.

If you think "solving" the co2 "problem" will ever produce results that rise above the statistical noise, you've been fed some skewed information. Its basically already been conceded that we'd basically need to stop all economic growth whatsoever in order to hit the strangling targets that...yeah, basically nobody has been able to meet thus far.

Nobody has any good rebuttal regarding the computer based models all of these stupidly wild predictions are based on - GIGO they are garbage! All we hear about is the tens of meters that the sea will rise...in a hundred years :lol:

No addressing of the logarithmic curve of co2 heat absorption...

People falsely pasting together dissimilar datasets and presenting them as contiguous...and the data still being paraded around long after it was shown to be of dubious origin and analysis, simply due to "save the planet political correctness."

I could go on, and on, and on, and on....and on....and then point right up at the sun for the single by far most dominant driver of the climate here. We just witnessed what happened when the sun goes into a funk, and a lot of the correlations AGWers are making, now that we're establishing a data trail, are not holding.

But go ahead and ignore the huge preponderance of evidence that's telling you CO2 is not harming the planet.

I'm all for good environmental efforts, if they are truly "environmental" efforts...and not jumping on a political bandwagon.

Godfather
03-03-2011, 07:10 PM
This is exactly what Arnie is talking about...

Ok, let's say I jump on board and agree we're not causing change to the climate. (For the record I will not, the evidence you ignore is astounding but neither of us is going to change opinions on that one).....

If I go around preaching C02 emissions are harmless and global warming is a farce... don't you see how that other masks huge issues that are inter-related to having general and urgent concern for this planet?


What do you say about deforestation, desertification, mass extinction, soil erosion... and on and on?

Your argument makes it seem as if you think it's all a big financial game and we should all be happy to carry on with zero regard for the planet without any cause for concern...

You have great long speeches about global warming and how much you hate it... but is that the end of your opinion? Do you think planet earth is otherwise fine and dandy? I just can't imagine anyone lucky enough to truly be able to look around all of the horrid thing we're up to around here.

FBD
03-03-2011, 08:06 PM
See, you gave your whole position away and underminded your entire argument just there. How is confusing the issue and obfuscating root causes going to somehow save the planet? That's among my biggest issues right there - people think "how can you possibly be against an effort that will help the planet" but in entirely suppressing your mind for the heart you are engaging in a huge campaign that is a massive waste of time and money. Not to mention a perpetuation of fraud. (Do you not realize that this whole crusade against CO2 masks huge issues that are having general and urgent concern for this planet?) Your concern is misplaced, bro. You cannot point to leaf and branch and call it root! If there is a root issue, go for that root issue...why does some side-farce have to happen and defraud hundreds of millions of people in order for there to be some general awareness on the environment?

You just minimized the importance of CO2 in your ascribed to paradigm in asserting that. Co2 needs to be the demon because there are other environmental issues that need to be addressed? Does that not sound utterly ass backwards?


I've read a ton on this - if you feel there's some 'astounding' information I'm ignoring, I'd love to see it. If it is biased, I'll tell you it is the lump of shit that it is.



So what do I say about deforestation, desertification, mass extinction, soil erosion... and on and on?

Simple - you're not going to solve those issues by declaring CO2 to be a pollutant and subsequently taxing the christ out of businesses and people so that their tithe money can go fund a politician's pet project. What do you have to say about the amazing re-forestation rate they're finding where they've cut shit down? Sure its no longer an old-growth forest, but...in the absence of any other action, nature reclaims.


Its not "just some big financial game" - but to ignore economics and fiscal concerns in your rendering of judgment is rather...incomplete? They are a factor, that is a fact of life. In whatever goes on, those factors will be present, and weighty.


"Around here" - you mean places like China? Who dont give two shits whether they are clean or not? We've come a long way here. Like I said, I'm all for a clean environment - trust me, I watched Lake Champlain turn into a damn near cesspool as I grew up. We went from going across the street in the morning to fill your coffee pot at the lake edge to....wait, you cant go swimming, there's something in the water. And that's years after the water became undrinkable...and years after the water in a bunch of the wells around lakeside also became undrinkable. I look upon those pristine days of my youth and think how nice they were when it was all clean and innocent.

You think a carbon tax will fix stuff like that??

FBD
03-09-2011, 05:11 PM
http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/51508000/jpg/_51508654_ef16e6de-616e-4929-baed-fdbca06d09a3.jpg

Widespread Persistent Thickening of the East Antarctic Ice Sheet by Freezing from the Base

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-12619342
http://www.sciencemag.org/content/early/2011/03/02/science.1200109

How's them sea level predictions doing again? Oops, critical failure in models...