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JoeyB
12-14-2011, 09:04 PM
Some of you may know my stance on firearms. There is a movement afoot in America, organized by over 600 mayors of our cities, to fix the little loopholes in our current laws that let people buy guns without any background check.

Why is this dangerous? Because anyone, regardless of criminal background, mental instability, or even those with criminal or terroristic intentions can simply buy a gun, no questions asked, as long as they know who to approach. Only licensed guns sellers have to do a background check, those who sell infrequently, such as hobbyists, can do so without making a check. It's that simple.

This is the very loophole that terrorist networks have explicitly outlined as the way for their people to stockpile weapons. Think about that: terrorists are actually instructing people, here in America, to exploit our lax gun laws in order for them to buy the weapons they will use to kill us.

Extremist gun rights groups in America do not want this shut down. They are fighting to prevent the closing of this loophole, and are also lobbying to prevent a better background checks system.

However, the good news is that the group 'Mayors Against Illegal Guns' is working hard to see to it that all gun sales are regulated, and that background checks are more thorough and accurate. It is a simple, reasonable process...one that helps to prevent sales of guns to people who should not have them, and that helps to make sure the background check system that is already in place is updated to include mentally unstable people.

If this interests you, please read more, this is straight from their website:

Over the past 50 years, our nation has suffered through a series of gun assassinations and mass shootings. But even more shocking is the building toll of everyday Americans who are gunned down in big cities and small towns. It’s time for common sense reforms to Fix Gun Checks and stem the tide of gun murders that leaves 34 Americans dead every day.

The Solution
--
Common Sense Steps for a Safer America

Our leaders must make it a national priority to fix gun background checks. This will take two critical steps:
Get all of the names of people who should be prohibited from buying guns into the background check system.
Require a background check for every gun sale in America.

Step One: Get all of the names of people who should be prohibited from buying guns into the background check system.
The Virginia Tech shooter was able to pass a background check and purchase a gun despite a long history of mental illness, including a court ruling that he was mentally ill and an "imminent danger." His record was never entered into the background check database.
Since Virginia Tech, Congress passed a law to improve reporting of mental health records. But today, 10 states have not contributed a single mental health record and 18 states have contributed records on fewer than 100 people.
According to media reports, the Tucson shooter had a drug arrest on his record and may have admitted to the U.S. Army that he was a habitual drug user – red flags that should have barred him from buying a gun. Nevertheless, he went on to pass background checks and buy the Glock 19 he used to kill 6 people and injure 13 others.

To ensure that every prohibited person is added to the national background check system, our leaders in Congress should:
Guarantee full funding for states to update their information-sharing efforts
Crack down on federal agencies that fail to submit records
Penalize states that fail to add records by cutting their federal funding
Clarify the rules for adding drug abusers and the mentally ill to the database

Step Two: Congress must close all the loopholes and require a background check on all gun sales in America.
Even if a dangerous individual failed a background check, they can walk into any gun show and buy a trunk load of guns with no background check, no questions asked. That’s because only licensed gun dealers are required to conduct background checks. Occasional sellers, who often sell guns at gun shows, don’t have to do background checks.
30% of illegally trafficked guns are connected to gun shows.
This loophole has been exploited by terrorists, drug cartels, and murderers, including the shooters at Columbine High School, whose guns were purchased from an unlicensed seller at a gun show.

Every handgun sale should come with a background check:
People who want to sell their guns can take them to a licensed dealer who will conduct the background check.
There should be reasonable exemptions for transfers to immediate family members, law enforcement, inheritance, and holders of gun permits that meet certain requirements.


-- Public Support for the Plan to Fix Gun Checks
Americans overwhelmingly believe that criminals, drug abusers, and the mentally ill should not have access to guns: 9 out of 10 Americans and 9 out of 10 gun owners support fixing gaps in the background check databases that are meant to stop dangerous people from getting their hands on guns.
Americans overwhelmingly believe that more needs to be done to ensure records in the background check system are complete: 89% of Americans and 89% of gun owners support full funding of the post-Virginia Tech law designed to put more records in the background check database.
Americans overwhelmingly believe it’s time to close the loopholes that let people buy guns with no background check: 86% of Americans and 81% of gun owners support requiring all gun buyers to pass a background check, no matter where they buy the gun and no matter who they buy it from.

What can you do? Right now they are focusing on online gun sales. Read this:

Do you have any idea just how easy it is to buy an illegal gun online with no questions asked?

A new national undercover investigation by the City of New York has uncovered a vast, unregulated online market for illegal firearms. In a sting operation of 125 sellers, 62% were willing to sell a gun to a stranger who admitted he couldn’t pass a criminal background check.

Those profiting from online gun sales have a responsibility to prevent this easy flow of firearms to minors, criminals and others who shouldn’t have them. Please join more than 600 U.S. Mayors in calling on key gun-sale websites to act.

So, you can sign the new petition aimed at online gun sales. It's common sense and after reading all of the above I'm hoping you will see that only an extremist would find this approach unreasonable. I'm afraid that only those of you living in America will be able to sign, however.

http://www.fixgunchecks.org/illegalgunsonline

Loser
12-14-2011, 11:00 PM
Fixing these loopholes has been suggested before, and even supported by the NRA, until anti-gun nut jobs added things like registered owners database*that would be searchable under the FOIA*, and idiotic limits on the sale of firearms*that was more about looks then the actual function of the weapon*.

Griffin
12-14-2011, 11:03 PM
I don't know where this false information comes from but I know for a fact that you can't order a gun online and have it shipped to you. It has to ship to an FFL shop who will perform the background check before it can be picked up.
As far as gun shows go all firearm sales require the same checks as store sales.
The only unchecked sales are performed out of car trunks in allies in which case you are dealing with criminals who don't really give a rats ass about laws and regulations.

Loser
12-14-2011, 11:17 PM
I don't know where this false information comes from but I know for a fact that you can't order a gun online and have it shipped to you. It has to ship to an FFL shop who will perform the background check before it can be picked up.
As far as gun shows go all firearm sales require the same checks as store sales.
The only unchecked sales are performed out of car trunks in allies in which case you are dealing with criminals who don't really give a rats ass about laws and regulations.

The only unchecked gunsales in america, that are legal*and some restrictions may apply*, are person to person sales.

Any time an FFL is involved you have to run a background check, and send that information into the ATF.

In order to run a booth at a gun show, you HAVE TO HAVE AN FFL! It's federal law.

JoeyB
12-15-2011, 12:07 AM
The only unchecked gunsales in america, that are legal*and some restrictions may apply*, are person to person sales.

Any time an FFL is involved you have to run a background check, and send that information into the ATF.

In order to run a booth at a gun show, you HAVE TO HAVE AN FFL! It's federal law.

Which is exactly what was said...

That’s because only licensed gun dealers are required to conduct background checks. Occasional sellers, who often sell guns at gun shows, don’t have to do background checks.

Loser
12-15-2011, 01:24 AM
Which is exactly what was said...

That’s because only licensed gun dealers are required to conduct background checks. Occasional sellers, who often sell guns at gun shows, don’t have to do background checks.

Yes, but you and other anti gun lobbyists are misrepresenting the truth of the situation.

The real problem, and it's not just with gun shows, is citizen to citizen sales.

FFL dealers at gun shows are NOT selling guns without background checks, but that's what's being said.

What's really happening is average citizens selling their personal firearms to other citizens, which may or may not be illegal depending on the state/city.

Anti gun lobbyists are using these sales as a pitch against gun shows, to try and stop what little advertisement the gun industry has.


Now, with all that bullshit said, I am personally against citizen to citizen sales without background checks, as is the NRA. There was legislation being pushed through to stop these sales, but anti gun lobbyists attached other bullshit to the bill, and it sank.*surprise surprise*

If you want to blame anyone for this not passing, blame the brady campaign asshats.

Leefro
12-15-2011, 01:44 AM
Joey money dictates more than lives ;)

JoeyB
12-15-2011, 07:27 AM
Yes, but you and other anti gun lobbyists are misrepresenting the truth of the situation.

The real problem, and it's not just with gun shows, is citizen to citizen sales.

FFL dealers at gun shows are NOT selling guns without background checks, but that's what's being said.

What's really happening is average citizens selling their personal firearms to other citizens, which may or may not be illegal depending on the state/city.

Anti gun lobbyists are using these sales as a pitch against gun shows, to try and stop what little advertisement the gun industry has.


Now, with all that bullshit said, I am personally against citizen to citizen sales without background checks, as is the NRA. There was legislation being pushed through to stop these sales, but anti gun lobbyists attached other bullshit to the bill, and it sank.*surprise surprise*

If you want to blame anyone for this not passing, blame the brady campaign asshats.

Umm, but again, person to person sales IS what this is about, lol...did you read this thing?

This is the loophole we are trying to close. We want ALL gun sales to be background checked. We also want the background check system to be fixed so that everyone who should be on it, is on it.

FBD
12-15-2011, 12:29 PM
:lol: I think every bit as much of a problem is the feds selling guns and not giving a shit where they go.

Softdreamer
12-15-2011, 12:49 PM
I can see why people get so protective over the right to own a gun.
I've fired a couple of guns. It was an awesome feeling of power. I was a bloody good shot, instructor said I was a natural.
This is exactly the reason why there should be very strong restrictions on the sale and ownership of them. If a sensible intelligent pacifist like me can feel the addictive power of a gun. Id hate to think of mentally unstable short tempered fools living next door owning them.

If we are all given the right to own weapons, and do what we like with them it makes the world a very dangerous place. I find it hypocritical that America is so strong on the right to bear arms, yet if any other foreign nation declares its right to develop weapons it becomes a danger to world peace.

And please dont start quoting countries that have high gun ownership levels and low gun crime. We've been there before.
The issue is an individual with questionable motives being able to get a gun far too easily,

Teh One Who Knocks
12-15-2011, 12:52 PM
I find it hypocritical that America is so strong on the right to bear arms, yet if any other foreign nation declares its right to develop weapons it becomes a danger to world peace.

Yes, because owning a handgun for home protection is EXACTLY like an unstable country developing a nuclear weapon :roll:

Softdreamer
12-15-2011, 12:57 PM
Yes, because owning a handgun for home protection is EXACTLY like an unstable country developing a nuclear weapon :roll:

Morally yes.

Every country has the right to defend its borders..
Owning a bigger gun than your neighbor is not a sensible solution.
If nobody had a reason to need a gun this wouldn't be an issue.

Teh One Who Knocks
12-15-2011, 01:07 PM
Morally yes.

Umm, no, it's not...nice try at a straw man though.

I'm out...this thread is already filled with so much mis-information and fail it's unbelievable.

Loser
12-15-2011, 01:20 PM
Umm, but again, person to person sales IS what this is about, lol...did you read this thing?

This is the loophole we are trying to close. We want ALL gun sales to be background checked. We also want the background check system to be fixed so that everyone who should be on it, is on it.

I read it, but as soon as I read "Mayors against illegal guns", I already knew it was going to be rife with anti gun bullshit and misinformation that always seems to follow brady campaign, or any lobbyist for that matter.

I agree that person to person sales need to be regulated, and like I said, there was even a bill several years ago being pushed through congress to address this issue, but it was because the brady campaign wanted a national owner database that it sank.

Acid Trip
12-15-2011, 02:07 PM
The 2nd Amendment right to own firearms is less about protecting ourselves from each other and more about protecting ourselves from the government which presides over us. Our founding fathers knew that at some point the government would stop serving us and start serving themselves.

What is the best way to keep the government in line? Make sure all citizens have the right to own firearms. As much as they planned for the beginning of our nation with the Constitution they were also planning for it to be overthrown and created anew. No Democracy lasts forever and they knew that. At some point you always have to hit the reset button.

FBD
12-15-2011, 05:15 PM
And please dont start quoting countries that have high gun ownership levels and low gun crime. We've been there before.
The issue is an individual with questionable motives being able to get a gun far too easily,

yeah, we have - and anti gun zealots simply refuse to acknowledge what the data says! :lol: you're entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts, and from every which way you look at it, the more responsible and legal gun use you have, the safer the place is.

Loser
12-15-2011, 07:39 PM
Illinois and washington dc are the only two hold outs for CCW carry, and have the highest crime rates in the entire country. Go figure :roll: