Stop antivaxxers. Now.

[Teh One Who Knocks]

By Phil Plait - Discover Magazine


http://i.imgur.com/X8Lb3.jpg

There are times when reality is so obvious, so clear, so rock-solid 100% amazingly in-your-face incontrovertible, that it is beyond belief that anyone could deny it.

And yet, antivaccination groups exist.

Let me be very, very clear: they are wrong. Vaccines save lives. Vaccines save millions of lives. And not just directly, like they did by wiping out smallpox, a scourge that killed hundreds of millions of people. But also, through herd immunity (http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/index.php/herd-immunity/), vaccines save infants too young to be vaccinated, the elderly with weak immune systems, and people whose immune systems are compromised due to chemotherapy, genetic issues, or because they are taking immunosuppressants for other illnesses (like arthritis).

Vaccines don’t cause autism. Vaccines don’t contain dangerous levels of mercury. Vaccines don’t contain fetal tissue. Each of these – and many, many more (http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2010/03/31/more-truth-based-weapons-against-the-antivaxxers/) — is misinformation spread by antivaxxers, statements that are easily proven wrong (like, in order, here (http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/05/12/vaccines-do-not-cause-autism/), here (http://antiantivax.flurf.net/#Thimerosal), and here (http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/index.php/jenny-mccarthy-jim-carrey-and-green-our-vaccines-anti-vaccine-not-pro-safe-vaccine/)). But many antivaxxers continue to use them.

What does that say about their willingness to tell the truth?

Yesterday, in Australia, one of the most vocal antivaxxers alive, Meryl Dorey of the grossly misnamed Australian Vaccination Network (AVN), spoke at the Woodford Folk Festival about her beliefs. However, she didn’t get quite the chance she had hoped for. Once the news got out that she was invited to the festival, the group Stop AVN went into action (http://wiki.mycolleaguesareidiots.com/DoreyAtWoodford.ashx). A protest cry went up, and the venue was changed from her speaking solo, to her participating in a panel with a series of experts — actual, real experts — on vaccines. As I write this, I have a window open on Twitter, and I’m watching the tweets using the hashtag #StopAVN (http://twitter.com/#%21/search/realtime/%23stopavn) flow by. It’s a thing of beauty. Dorey’s arguments are being destroyed (http://www.davethehappysinger.com/blog/2011/12/29/stopavn-sends-meryl-dorey-a-message-at-woodford-vaccination-saves-lives/), 140 characters at a time.

The bottom line, repeated over and over again: Vaccinations save lives. That statement of fact is so simple, so powerful, that Stop AVN put it on a banner and had it flown behind a plane at the festival (http://www.scribd.com/doc/76694369/SAVN-Media-Release-Banner-Tow).



http://i.imgur.com/gwhz9.png


Wonderful! My congratulations to my friends Down Under for this impressive campaign.

But we here in America cannot rest easy. We have antivaxxers here; loud, wealthy, ones, who won’t hesitate to spread the same kind of misinformation; dangerous misinformation that poses a serious health threat.

The National Vaccine Information Center is one such group. They have a long history (http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2011/11/05/a-pox-on-antivaxxers/) of antivax rhetoric (http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2010/01/13/antivaxxers-are-all-about-the-open-dialogue/), remarkable only in its breathtaking inaccuracy (http://www.skepdic.com/fisherbl.html), and their ability to get it into the mainstream (http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/index.php/ringing-in-2012-with-antivaccine-propaganda/). And they’re at it again: they’ve put an ad on ABC’s digital 5000 square foot screen in Times Square in New York City, a place that will be packed with people celebrating the new year. To top it all off, Jenny McCarthy — who dispenses incredibly dangerous (http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2009/07/06/jenny-mccarthy-spreading-dangerous/) and incredibly wrong (http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2010/02/27/jenny-mccarthy-still-thinks-vaccines-cause-autism/) advice about vaccinations and other health safety issues — is slated to be a guest on ABC’s New Year’s Rocking Eve with Dick Clark… and she has stated she plans to promote her dangerous nonsense on the show (http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2011/12/jenny_mccarthy_plans_to_promote_antivaccine.php?ut m_source=sbhomepage&utm_medium=link&utm_content=channellink).

Skepchick has an excellent post about this (http://skepchick.org/2011/12/times-squares-5000-sq-ft-anti-vaccine-party-extravaganza/). My friend Jamie Bernstein has started a petition on change.org to get the ad taken down (http://www.change.org/petitions/disney-pull-nvics-anti-vaccine-ad-from-the-abc-screen-in-times-square). I signed it.

Again, let me be clear: these antivax groups pose a public health threat. If you don’t believe me, then read this account by someone who knows (http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/28/opinion/for-the-herds-sake-vaccinate.html?_r=1).

And if you wonder why I feel so strongly about this, then I suggest you steel yourself — seriously — and read this account written by the parents of Dana McCaffery (http://danamccaffery.com/openletter.html), who lost her life to pertussis when she was four weeks old. She was too young to be vaccinated. Because vaccine rates were so low in her area, pertussis had a place to grow. She was infected, and she died.

You want to know why I feel so strongly? This is why. She is why.


http://i.imgur.com/66rib.jpg


Talk to your board-certified doctor about vaccines. Find out what you might need — being an adult doesn’t mean you’re exempt from childhood vaccines; you may need a booster (http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2010/12/09/i-got-shot/) — and if your doctor approves, then do what needs to be done.

The solution against the antivaxxers is to make sure their misinformation is countered by facts. It’s one of life’s great ironies that vaccines have helped these people live as long as they have to spread their nonsense about vaccines. We can speak up to stop them… and at the same time get vaccinated to make sure that they — that everyone – gets a chance to be wrong for a long, long time.

[Loser]

It's ok to offer it, but DO NOT try to force me to get one with false propaganda bullshit.

You can't sit there and tell me that with all these new medicines they're coming out with there are no long term side effects. If that were true, why is there a direct link between the amount of pharmaceuticals on the market, and the amount of dialysis centers popping up city to city.

How many different pharm companies are being sued at the moment for adverse "LIFE THREATENING" side effects?

So many meds have been pulled in the last 3 years, after decades of use, because of harmful side effects, and now their even nailing the non over the counter ones like advil and tylenol.

Give people the choice to get what they want. If someone is stupid enough to get pumped with untested bullshit, so be it.

[Teh One Who Knocks]

It's ok to offer it, but DO NOT try to force me to get one with false propaganda bullshit.

You can't sit there and tell me that with all these new medicines they're coming out with there are no long term side effects. If that were true, why is there a direct link between the amount of pharmaceuticals on the market, and the amount of dialysis centers popping up city to city.

How many different pharm companies are being sued at the moment for adverse "LIFE THREATENING" side effects?

So many meds have been pulled in the last 3 years, after decades of use, because of harmful side effects, and now their even nailing the non over the counter ones like advil and tylenol.

Give people the choice to get what they want. If someone is stupid enough to get pumped with untested bullshit, so be it.

:-s

Ummm, most of all the childhood vaccinations have been around for a long ass time.

[Southern Belle]

Some of the commonly prescribed vaccinations are suspected to cause reactions that result in mental and physical retardation and autism. The drug companies and doctors will never admit to it because if they do they could be held liable for the damages to some children. Overall, vaccinations are good but that doesn't help the percentage that have tragic results. Instead of working on damage control, the drug companies need to work on reducing the risk of side effects, no matter how small the percentage.

[Loser]

:-s

Ummm, most of all the childhood vaccinations have been around for a long ass time.

I'm not knocking those per se, but more specifically the new ones that have been coming out, that these idiots want to force on children. Like the HPV vaccine.

[Teh One Who Knocks]

Some of the commonly prescribed vaccinations are suspected to cause reactions that result in mental and physical retardation and autism. The drug companies and doctors will never admit to it because if they do they could be held liable for the damages to some children. Overall, vaccinations are good but that doesn't help the percentage that have tragic results. Instead of working on damage control, the drug companies need to work on reducing the risk of side effects, no matter how small the percentage.

I love ya Belle, but that statement is completely and utterly false and has been debunked a million times.

[Teh One Who Knocks]

I'm not knocking those per se, but more specifically the new ones that have been coming out, that these idiots want to force on children. Like the HPV vaccine.

Well, this article deals mostly with those childhood vaccinations, not any of the new ones.

And as for the new ones, I have no problem with those either, however, as you mentioned, until there is a better track record on them, unless they are something revolutionary, they should be voluntary and not mandatory like all the regular childhood vaccinations.

[Loser]

Well, this article deals mostly with those childhood vaccinations, not any of the new ones.

And as for the new ones, I have no problem with those either, however, as you mentioned, until there is a better track record on them, unless they are something revolutionary, they should be voluntary and not mandatory like all the regular childhood vaccinations.

Well, to put things in perspective, the gardisil vaccination has killed over 100 people within 24 hours of injection, and they were non allergic reactions that Dr's don't know wtf happened.

[Southern Belle]

I love ya Belle, but that statement is completely and utterly false and has been debunked a million times.
I know but the people who have the children still think it because they don't have anything else to blame it on. And that is what makes people not want to vaccinate. It's just sad.

[Loser]

My question is, if it causes no harm, why is the U.S, EU and various other countries phasing out it's use on a massive scale? :?

-edit-
Referring of course to thimerosal.

[Iffy]

Well, to put things in perspective, the gardisil vaccination has killed over 100 people within 24 hours of injection, and they were non allergic reactions that Dr's don't know wtf happened.

:shock: Not over 100!!!


I'm willing to bet that more people die from food poisoning obtained at fast food joints every day. I'm also willing to bet that diet has more to do with those dialysis centers than vaccinations :-s

[Loser]

:shock: Not over 100!!!


I'm willing to bet that more people die from food poisoning obtained at fast food joints every day. I'm also willing to bet that diet has more to do with those dialysis centers than vaccinations :-s

You're missing the point, this happened during a small scale test of 100,000 people. So basically 1 in 1000 died 24 hours after injection.

Now put this on the proposed massive scale of injecting every teenage girl in the country. How well do you think that would go over?

[JoeyB]

It's ok to offer it, but DO NOT try to force me to get one with false propaganda bullshit.

You can't sit there and tell me that with all these new medicines they're coming out with there are no long term side effects. If that were true, why is there a direct link between the amount of pharmaceuticals on the market, and the amount of dialysis centers popping up city to city.

How many different pharm companies are being sued at the moment for adverse "LIFE THREATENING" side effects?

So many meds have been pulled in the last 3 years, after decades of use, because of harmful side effects, and now their even nailing the non over the counter ones like advil and tylenol.

Give people the choice to get what they want. If someone is stupid enough to get pumped with untested bullshit, so be it.

Loser is right...the problem is that these vaccines CAN BE DANGEROUS, despite the claims in the article posted above.


I'm not knocking those per se, but more specifically the new ones that have been coming out, that these idiots want to force on children. Like the HPV vaccine.

Which by the way, was shown to be dangerous, and despite this, passed as safe anyway. I posted an article about this before...it was the suspension liquid causing the problems. The vaccinations themselves MAY OR MAY NOT BE SAFE...but the suspension liquids are dangerous.


Some of the commonly prescribed vaccinations are suspected to cause reactions that result in mental and physical retardation and autism. The drug companies and doctors will never admit to it because if they do they could be held liable for the damages to some children. Overall, vaccinations are good but that doesn't help the percentage that have tragic results. Instead of working on damage control, the drug companies need to work on reducing the risk of side effects, no matter how small the percentage.

But they won't, because that admits there is a problem.


I love ya Belle, but that statement is completely and utterly false and has been debunked a million times.

And the supposed debunking has been shown to be corporate propaganda.


My question is, if it causes no harm, why is the U.S, EU and various other countries phasing out it's use on a massive scale? :?

-edit-
Referring of course to thimerosal.

Those countries and regions are phasing them out because they are dangerous, obviously. But nobody in big pharm wants to be honest about this. And if you dare to question the vaccines, and point out there are dangerous side effects, people will change the subject by calling you an idiot and screaming over and over again about how vaccines are good and they eliminate disease. Well no fucking shit, we know that. What we are saying is that there are problems with the vaccines and those problems are serious and need to be addressed; and if the drug makers will not address them, they should not expect to be able to force their dangerous product on people.

There is nothing new to any of this...all of the vaccine problems relate to corporate interests. It dates all the way back to the polio vaccine. The cure was found by the March Of Dimes people, an organization that was founded partly by Franklin Delano Roosevelt, yes, the polio stricken president himself. All those dimes donated by the American public paid for the cure. They wanted to be able to give everyone the shot for free, regardless of if they could afford it or not. That was the rule they wanted to impose, simply put, the American public paid for it, and all should have it even if they were too poor to afford the cure. Well, the drug makers, the doctor's representatives, and the republican controlled government of the time conspired to eliminate that rule and institute fees that would prove incredibly profitable for all involved...and of course, meant the poor would not get those free shots. Remember: the cure was discovered through a private, publicly funded charity.

During this process, the normal multiple check process for vaccine safety was eliminated...as it was not profitable. That's right, safety protocols were dismissed so that more money could be made by the newly emerging big pharm industry.

So, when the vaccine was first introduced, masses of people took their children in for the shot. Within weeks, many became ill with polio. The vaccines were pulled and it was discovered that LIVE virus was being given to people. If the safety triple check had been implemented, this never would have happened.

Meanwhile, in Canada, the Canadian government itself bought a lab and made the vaccine, to the same specifications seen in America. The difference was, the government was running everything and it was done for the people, not for profit. Canada managed to make the drug at a cost ONE THIRD of what the wholesale vaccine cost was in America...yes, a third of the cost. And this despite maintaining the more costly multiple safety checks. Not one person in Canada was ever given live virus, and none of them ever developed polio from the vaccine.

it continues to this day, I know you people freak out when I talk about corporate evil, but wake up already. Anytime there is profit to be made, they simply buy their way in. Look at the history of the HPV vaccine and all the money they spent on politicians in Texas...so that Texas would approve making the drug something girls had to have. And then when side effects emerged, they simply covered them up. And now they want to give boys this shot as well. All despite the fact that the drug only offers some protection from a FEW strains of HPV.

We need to remove profit from the vaccine process, and make things safe.

[Godfather]

What worries me is polarization... kids need vaccines for Meningitis, Hep B, Rotavirus, Polio, Pneumococcal etc etc. Without it we're back a century. How stupid would it be for a kid to get maimed or killed by a DTaP disease.

There may be some that need a second thought, are dangerous, or aren't needed at all. It's still a business - vaccinations. But scaring people off it all together is plain stupidity.

[deebakes]

we have a number of family friends with small kids like ours that refuse to get vaccinated for common things such as the flu... those kids are sick from october to april it seems...

we all got our flu shots this year and so far have been flu-free in our house :pray:

[Foxdana]

My son was diagnosed with Asperger's Syndrome at the age of 8 and my mum hounded me to sue the arse of who ever made the vaccination that was suspect for causing Autism. I knew without a doubt that the vaccine didn't cause it, but the bad press caused a lot of tension in my family for something I knew didn't cause it! And when they came out and said it was misinformation, my family called it a cover up!

[Muddy]

I love ya Belle, but that statement is completely and utterly false and has been debunked a million times.

How come you never tell me you love me when you tell me I'm wrong?

[FBD]

I'm vaccinated against the heavy stuff - but flu? :hand: pffft get that shit outta here. Aint even the same strain every year.

[FBD]

My son was diagnosed with Asperger's Syndrome at the age of 8 and my mum hounded me to sue the arse of who ever made the vaccination that was suspect for causing Autism. I knew without a doubt that the vaccine didn't cause it, but the bad press caused a lot of tension in my family for something I knew didn't cause it! And when they came out and said it was misinformation, my family called it a cover up!

I'd take most aspberger's diagnoses with a grain of salt, that just means whomever made that was most likely stumped.

[Acid Trip]

Wow, I didn't realize we had so many doctors on these boards! :roll:

I bet none of you have ever had Diphtheria, Tetanus, Pertussis, Pneumococcal, Measles, Mumps, Rubella, Polio, Meningococcal or Small Pox.

Gee, I wonder why that is. :-k

[Muddy]

Wow, I didn't realize we had so many doctors on these boards! :roll:

I bet none of you have ever had Diphtheria, Tetanus, Pertussis, Pneumococcal, Measles, Mumps, Rubella, Polio, Meningococcal or Small Pox.

Gee, I wonder why that is. :-k

I've seen some videos from the 50's of kids with some of these diseases... Fuggin rough shit...

[Iffy]

You're missing the point, this happened during a small scale test of 100,000 people. So basically 1 in 1000 died 24 hours after injection.

Now put this on the proposed massive scale of injecting every teenage girl in the country. How well do you think that would go over?

Start in New Jersey and I think it would be a resounding success :thumbsup:

[Hal-9000]

Wow, I didn't realize we had so many doctors on these boards! :roll:

I bet none of you have ever had Diphtheria, Tetanus, Pertussis, Pneumococcal, Measles, Mumps, Rubella, Polio, Meningococcal or Small Pox.

Gee, I wonder why that is. :-k

Bingo...I had all of the typical vaccinations as a child.Still got mumps and the measles....but I never died from any of the above.That's what it's all about.

I can't speak for any of the newer vaccines, the shots I got worked.

[Godfather]

Wow, I didn't realize we had so many doctors on these boards! :roll:

I bet none of you have ever had Diphtheria, Tetanus, Pertussis, Pneumococcal, Measles, Mumps, Rubella, Polio, Meningococcal or Small Pox.

Gee, I wonder why that is. :-k

:thumbsup:


I'm vaccinated against the heavy stuff - but flu? :hand: pffft get that shit outta here. Aint even the same strain every year.

To be fair, they do alter the vaccine every year based on what seems to be trending. I never get it nor do I catch the flu... but I've been told that's probably because enough people around me have been vacinated to cut the spread way down :lol: Who knows...

[JoeyB]

Those countries and regions are phasing them out because they are dangerous, obviously. But nobody in big pharm wants to be honest about this. And if you dare to question the vaccines, and point out there are dangerous side effects, people will change the subject by calling you an idiot and screaming over and over again about how vaccines are good and they eliminate disease. Well no fucking shit, we know that. What we are saying is that there are problems with the vaccines and those problems are serious and need to be addressed; and if the drug makers will not address them, they should not expect to be able to force their dangerous product on people.

There is nothing new to any of this...all of the vaccine problems relate to corporate interests. It dates all the way back to the polio vaccine. The cure was found by the March Of Dimes people, an organization that was founded partly by Franklin Delano Roosevelt, yes, the polio stricken president himself. All those dimes donated by the American public paid for the cure. They wanted to be able to give everyone the shot for free, regardless of if they could afford it or not. That was the rule they wanted to impose, simply put, the American public paid for it, and all should have it even if they were too poor to afford the cure. Well, the drug makers, the doctor's representatives, and the republican controlled government of the time conspired to eliminate that rule and institute fees that would prove incredibly profitable for all involved...and of course, meant the poor would not get those free shots. Remember: the cure was discovered through a private, publicly funded charity.

During this process, the normal multiple check process for vaccine safety was eliminated...as it was not profitable. That's right, safety protocols were dismissed so that more money could be made by the newly emerging big pharm industry.

So, when the vaccine was first introduced, masses of people took their children in for the shot. Within weeks, many became ill with polio. The vaccines were pulled and it was discovered that LIVE virus was being given to people. If the safety triple check had been implemented, this never would have happened.

Meanwhile, in Canada, the Canadian government itself bought a lab and made the vaccine, to the same specifications seen in America. The difference was, the government was running everything and it was done for the people, not for profit. Canada managed to make the drug at a cost ONE THIRD of what the wholesale vaccine cost was in America...yes, a third of the cost. And this despite maintaining the more costly multiple safety checks. Not one person in Canada was ever given live virus, and none of them ever developed polio from the vaccine.

it continues to this day, I know you people freak out when I talk about corporate evil, but wake up already. Anytime there is profit to be made, they simply buy their way in. Look at the history of the HPV vaccine and all the money they spent on politicians in Texas...so that Texas would approve making the drug something girls had to have. And then when side effects emerged, they simply covered them up. And now they want to give boys this shot as well. All despite the fact that the drug only offers some protection from a FEW strains of HPV.

We need to remove profit from the vaccine process, and make things safe.


Wow, I didn't realize we had so many doctors on these boards! :roll:

I bet none of you have ever had Diphtheria, Tetanus, Pertussis, Pneumococcal, Measles, Mumps, Rubella, Polio, Meningococcal or Small Pox.

Gee, I wonder why that is. :-k

That's not really the issue here. The issue is that these vaccines can be dangerous. Nobody says that disease is good or that stopping disease is bad.

[Acid Trip]

That's not really the issue here. The issue is that these vaccines can be dangerous. Nobody says that disease is good or that stopping disease is bad.

First, in your story about "a was live virus in the vaccine, this never would have happened if we had done triple checks" blah blah. Maybe you should do a little more reading on polio vaccines. There was a licensed (by the FDA) polio vaccine that used a live virus.

In 1963, trivalent OPV (TOPV) was licensed, and became the vaccine of choice in the United States and most other countries of the world, largely replacing the inactivated polio vaccine. A second wave of mass immunizations led to a further dramatic decline in the number of polio cases. Between 1962 and 1965 about 100 million Americans (roughly 56% of the population at that time) received the Sabin vaccine (aka live virus). The result was a substantial reduction in the number of poliomyelitis cases, even from the much reduced levels following the introduction of the Salk vaccine.

The Salk vaccine was created using the inactive polio virus and was found to be less effective. The FDA approved of EVERY vaccine I just mentioned. The ones with both the live virus (Sabin) and the inactive virus (Salk).

Now that the Polio virus was under better control they reverted BACK to the inactive virus. Why? They admitted the live virus had a small chance of infecting you.

In short, your story is garbage. The live virus was given out on purpose because it was more effective, not because big business failed to check their work.

Reference: http://jnnp.bmj.com/content/75/11/1552.full Pearce J (2004). "Salk and Sabin: poliomyelitis immunisation". J Neurol Neurosurg Psychiatry

[Loser]

I think you're missing the point here, it's not the type of vaccine people are worried about, its the substrate that's used to administer the vaccinations.

Thimerosal.

It's the only factor that people worry about when getting their vaccinations because it's based on ethyl-mercury.

The fact that the government, for almost 70 years, said Thimerosal is/was safe, then all of the sudden phased out it's use on a massive scale for no apparent reason, is why people are worried.

-edit-

I should add that Thimerosal is pretty much only used in influenza vaccinations anymore, and even then, outside of the US.

[JoeyB]

First, in your story about "a was live virus in the vaccine, this never would have happened if we had done triple checks" blah blah. Maybe you should do a little more reading on polio vaccines. There was a licensed (by the FDA) polio vaccine that used a live virus.

In 1963, trivalent OPV (TOPV) was licensed, and became the vaccine of choice in the United States and most other countries of the world, largely replacing the inactivated polio vaccine. A second wave of mass immunizations led to a further dramatic decline in the number of polio cases. Between 1962 and 1965 about 100 million Americans (roughly 56% of the population at that time) received the Sabin vaccine (aka live virus). The result was a substantial reduction in the number of poliomyelitis cases, even from the much reduced levels following the introduction of the Salk vaccine.

The Salk vaccine was created using the inactive polio virus and was found to be less effective. The FDA approved of EVERY vaccine I just mentioned. The ones with both the live virus (Sabin) and the inactive virus (Salk).

Now that the Polio virus was under better control they reverted BACK to the inactive virus. Why? They admitted the live virus had a small chance of infecting you.

In short, your story is garbage. The live virus was given out on purpose because it was more effective, not because big business failed to check their work.

Reference: http://jnnp.bmj.com/content/75/11/1552.full Pearce J (2004). "Salk and Sabin: poliomyelitis immunisation". J Neurol Neurosurg Psychiatry

OK, but what does that have to do with what I said? You are discussing something from the 1960's, I am referring to the first polio vaccines from the 1950's, which were NOT supposed to be live. Some were, which was dangerous, and the government even later admitted there were errors and that live vaccine was given, when it was not supposed to be. Triple safety checks would have caught this and prevented the aftermath which was people becoming infected with polio, some of it of the paralytic type, by the vaccine. This is fact, it's history, it's not something you can dismiss. Everything I pointed out was true, down to Canada and how safe it was there.

Saying my story is crap by mentioning a completely unrelated vaccine plan from a decade later makes no sense whatsoever. Even what you quoted above mentions the earlier INACTIVATED vaccine I was discussing, keyword: inactivated. This is like if I posted that Coke once had cocaine in it, and you saying that was crap and I was wrong because modern Coke has no cocaine.


I think you're missing the point here, it's not the type of vaccine people are worried about, its the substrate that's used to administer the vaccinations.

Thimerosal.

It's the only factor that people worry about when getting their vaccinations because it's based on ethyl-mercury.

The fact that the government, for almost 70 years, said Thimerosal is/was safe, then all of the sudden phased out it's use on a massive scale for no apparent reason, is why people are worried.

-edit-

I should add that Thimerosal is pretty much only used in influenza vaccinations anymore, and even then, outside of the US.

That's also what I was saying. Find and read my piece about what happened with HPV and the clinical trials...it was declared safe compared to a test group who should have been given saline shots, but instead were given the carrier liquid, which causes the problems. So, both the groups had the same reactions. And this was considered a reasonable way to test the safety of the drug.

You know people like Loser and I are discussing a serious problem, that there are flaws with the vaccines. The extremists are not us, the extremists are the people who demand everyone be vaccinated and not to question what is happening to them. Loser and I are saying, look, there are problems, let's fix them. That's not being unreasonable, it's actually logical and trying to pursue the correct course of action.