Segregation.

[Muddy]

I know this isn't politically correct and I really don't give a shit.. But really with the rash of violence that's out there today... If you had a chance to go to an establishment that's segregated.. Whites and non whites.. Would you frequent said establishment.. For example.. Chuck E cheese?

http://tehbasement.com/showthread.php?25213-Grandmother-Assaulted-at-Chuck-E.-Cheese-s

And please save the politically correct drivel for someone else.. This is just an honest discussion.. I'm not recruiting for the Ku Klux Klan here... So don't fucking lie..

[PorkChopSandwiches]

Blind pole?

[Loser]

No, because stupid isn't racially bound.

Each race has it's share of asshats.

Now, if you could segregate people by intelligence, than yes, I would definitely go for that :)

[KevinD]

I haven't personally had any problems in restaurants, movie theaters on the other hand, lol

Where I live, the likely hood of white trash, hispanic, or blacks acting rude are all pretty much equal. I honestly don't think it's a "racial" problem so much as a class of people.

[PorkChopSandwiches]

we should segregate by "do you have a job" or "government funded".

[Muddy]

No, because stupid isn't racially bound.

Each race has it's share of asshats.

Now, if you could segregate people by intelligence, than yes, I would definitely go for that :)

No stupid isn't racially bound..

BUT, Having personally been to a predominately black mall, followed by a predominately white mall over the weekend.. I can tell you which group of people were overwhelmingly quieter, less offensive, and more polite.....

[Loser]

No stupid isn't racially bound..

BUT, Having personally been to a predominately black mall, followed by a predominately white mall over the weekend.. I can tell you which group of people were overwhelmingly quieter, less offensive, and more polite.....

Again, this is more of an intelligence issue than racial issue.

[Muddy]

Again, this is more of an intelligence issue than racial issue.

Could very well be.. But the issue remains the same.. :lol:

You going to the friendly quiet mall or the offensive vulgar one?

[Loser]

Could very well be.. But the issue remains the same.. :lol:

You going to the friendly quiet mall or the offensive vulgar one?


Neither I shop online ;)

[MrsM]

I agree with loser - this is not a race thing it's a person/intelligence/education thing. If you went to a mall in an upper class area (regardless of race) - I bet you would have a better shoping experience than in a poorer area.

I have come across many people of all races that I found vulgar, rude and overall not someone I would be around.

So to answer your question - if the segregation was solely based on race - then no - I would not want to participate.

[PorkChopSandwiches]

http://i.imgur.com/mPHuC.jpg

[PorkChopSandwiches]

http://i.imgur.com/bltpt.gif

[Muddy]

I agree with loser - this is not a race thing it's a person/intelligence/education thing. If you went to a mall in an upper class area (regardless of race) - I bet you would have a better shoping experience than in a poorer area.

I have come across many people of all races that I found vulgar, rude and overall not someone I would be around.

So to answer your question - if the segregation was solely based on race - then no - I would not want to participate.

Your response is pretty, but really...

You going to the friendly quiet mall or the offensive vulgar one?

[MrsM]

http://i.imgur.com/mPHuC.jpg

:)

[PorkChopSandwiches]

I think its funny that on MLK Day MG starts this thread

[Muddy]

I think its funny that on MLK Day MG starts this thread

:lol: I just started it because of that Chuck e cheese thread... I have had a bad experience in there as well... Nobody punched me but it was just as sucky..

[Teh One Who Knocks]

I think its funny that on MLK Day MG starts this thread

Wait, what? I thought today was James Earl Ray day :confused:













:outtahere:

[PorkChopSandwiches]

:lol:

[Teh One Who Knocks]

Sorry, I'll try and be more PC next time :oops:

[MrsM]

Your response is pretty, but really...

You going to the friendly quiet mall or the offensive vulgar one?

Yes - but the offensive vulgar one is not always because of race. It's more to do with social issues like intelligence and education.

I have known lots of non-white people who can behave civil in a public setting and have seen many whites that cannot.

So segregation based on race is not going to solve your problems

[Pony]

Personally I do favor places bars/restaurants/etc that are further west than me in a predominantly white suburb. I've had my share of bad experiences.

[Muddy]

So segregation based on race is not going to solve your problems

It sure does in my town.. :lol:

[Teh One Who Knocks]

Personally I do favor places bars/restaurants/etc that are further west than me in a predominantly white suburb. I've had my share of bad experiences.

This ^^

There are plenty of places in Denver that I wouldn't go into a bar/restaurant/store strictly because of the color of my skin.

[PorkChopSandwiches]

http://fourfour.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/haveadream.jpg

[Muddy]

Porky, really? Can we not have a decent discussion? :lol:

[PorkChopSandwiches]

My bad, but as far as mingling races. We typically don't see issues in Asian/Mexican/White mixes. But for some reason mexican/black mix you can almost guarantee a fight

[Richard Cranium]

We're gonna have to have a beer summit at the White House with 'our' post racial president.

[Pony]

If I had kids and I was planning a bday party and had my choice of a close CEC in a inner city area or drive 20-30 minutes and go to the CEC in a better neighborhood you bet your ass I'm packing the kids and going for a drive.

[Muddy]

If I had kids and I was planning a bday party and had my choice of a close CEC in a inner city area or drive 20-30 minutes and go to the CEC in a better neighborhood you bet your ass I'm packing the kids and going for a drive.

Exactly.. People preach all this crap about intelligence and blah blah blah, but at the end of the day their actions always speak louder than their words... :lol:

[MrsM]

Exactly.. People preach all this crap about intelligence and blah blah blah, but at the end of the day their actions always speak louder than their words... :lol:

Hold on there - Of course I would choose a better place to bring my family to - that was not the question. HOWEVER I would never go to a place that did not allow someone to enter because of their race or skin colour.

To say that my actions speak louder than words - that is true, however that would be to the establishment and the how they deal with clients that are not civil. It has nothing to do with the race of said clients.

To even think for a moment that society would be better if we allowed or disallowed someone from doing something or going someplace based solely on the colour of their skin is IMO just wrong.

[Muddy]

To even think for a moment that society would be better if we allowed or disallowed someone from doing something or going someplace based solely on the colour of their skin is IMO just wrong.

I agree, thats a rough thing to do... But really our society already practices a form of segregation through their actions.. They can make the spin about equality and every ones equal.. But at the end of the day, birds of a similar feather usually flock together. You have white theaters, you have black theatres, you have white malls, you have black malls.. People practice elective segregation every day, but no one has the balls to acknowledge it.,.

[Godfather]

It's funny... up here I won't go to pubs or bars or malls in the neighborhoods where all the Iranian communities are. I'll go to Chinatown for the ethnic food or the Indian neighborhood, or any other for that matter... but the Iranian kids are fucked up, violent and dangerous.

Then again, there are large parts of Surrey, BC I won't even drive through because of the (mostly white) drug gangs.

So while I'm pretty offended by the idea that Muddy is talking about, I have to admit that, like Pony said, I patronize places that way :lol: But to be clear, I think actually legislating it would be really wrong (and start riots)

[Muddy]

It's funny... up here I won't go to pubs or bars or malls in the neighborhoods where all the Iranian and Iraqi communities are. I'll go to Chinatown for the cool restaurants or ethnic food. Or the Indian part of town. Or any other for that matter... but the Iranian kids are fucked up, violent and dangerous.

Then again, there are large parts of Surrey, BC I won't even drive through because the (mostly white) drug gangs are dangerous too.

So while I'm pretty offended by the idea that Muddy is talking about, I have to admit that when I think about it, like Pony said, I patronize places the same way :lol: But to be clear, I think actually legislating it would be really wrong (and start riots)


Really, Im not trying to legislate anything... We're just having a convo. on principle...

[Godfather]

I get that, but it would have to be law and written somewhere because it's illegal right now.

Like I said, I'm offended by that idea, not by you. It's a great discussion

[Noilly Pratt]

If I were a shopkeeper and had to turn away clientelle because of the colour of their skin, or of their outward ethnicity, I would not want to do that and would not. I also would not frequent anywhere like that. It goes against what I believe. I would say everyone is innocent until proven otherwise...you cause a disruption, expect to be hauled out of there, white, black, blue, purple, whatever!

How strongly you feel about this I think is tempered on where you live and the ethnic mix and numbers. Where I live it is predominantly white, but go 20 minutes north, a large E. Indian population exists. There certainly is a different "feel" when you go to certain places there, but as for tension, I don't feel any and therefore the subject does not even need to be discussed.

I am not innocent to the ways of the world...I went to Washington D.C. and some parts of North Carolina where the black/white tension is so thick you can almost cut it with a knife. It's a bit of a culture shock for someone who doesn't have racial tension where they normally live to see it elsewhere, and to know it really still exists - especially considering who is in the White House right now (no pun intended).

I choose not to live in a place where that is an issue. (no, I'm not turning this into a "yeay Canada, Boo America" thread -- just sayin' my little corner of the world is like this. Most of us get along fine.)

If you live in a place where segregation even appears to be an answer, then I'd say you need to consider lobbying to make the place a better place, or move elsewhere.

[Muddy]

I get sick of all the cum-ba-ya we see on TV... It's like we get spoon fed this Utopian society that only exists in a few select places.. And to speak of it is totally taboo...

[Noilly Pratt]

I agree...Utopia where all of us all get along will never happen. If by miracle of miracles, you solve the "race" issue, you still can have 1 neighbour whose dog barks incessantly and another neighbour who is kept awake because of it. You will never have Utopia. But, you can try to meet halfway...

It's the still-willingness to try on both ends of a given arguement is what will keep us in harmony. We can strive for Utopia but we know we will never truly achieve it...human nature and freedom of choice makes that impossible.

[MrsM]

I agree, thats a rough thing to do... But really our society already practices a form of segregation through their actions.. They can make the spin about equality and every ones equal.. But at the end of the day, birds of a similar feather usually flock together. You have white theaters, you have black theatres, you have white malls, you have black malls.. People practice elective segregation every day, but no one has the balls to acknowledge it.,.

I disagree - you don't have white or black establishments - you have estiblishments in different neighbourhoods that have different demographics.

I don't go to a place because there are "blacks" there - I don't go there because I don't like the other clients, or the service that I got - this should have nothing to do with race.

Even if the trouble makers were black, I would have the same reaction if they were white, yellow, brown or any other colour/race.

What you are suggesting would just further divide the races and make things worse.

Now - if you said that malls were implementing a zero tollerance to disrespect and would kick out anyone that was not conducting themselves based on the code of conduct that the mall defined then that's fine.

But so say "you can't shop/eat/be here because you are black" is completely different.

What you call elective segregation is every persons right to chose who they do business with - but to say that these decisions are always or should be based on race is IMO wrong.

[Muddy]

What you call elective segregation is every persons right to chose who they do business with -


Call it what you want.. :)

[Loser]

Muddy, there's a difference between what you're asking and what's already happening.

You're talking forced segregation by some governmental entity.

What's already happening now is called the "White Flight."

Google it.

[JoeyB]

I know this isn't politically correct and I really don't give a shit.. But really with the rash of violence that's out there today... If you had a chance to go to an establishment that's segregated.. Whites and non whites.. Would you frequent said establishment.. For example.. Chuck E cheese?

http://tehbasement.com/showthread.php?25213-Grandmother-Assaulted-at-Chuck-E.-Cheese-s

And please save the politically correct drivel for someone else.. This is just an honest discussion.. I'm not recruiting for the Ku Klux Klan here... So don't fucking lie..


No stupid isn't racially bound..

BUT, Having personally been to a predominately black mall, followed by a predominately white mall over the weekend.. I can tell you which group of people were overwhelmingly quieter, less offensive, and more polite.....

Ok, everyone knows I am fairly liberal when it comes to issues of race. Just putting that out there first. There used to be a mall in Joilet Illinois that my family liked to go to, this was back in the early 1980s when I was a kid. About a decade later it had basically been overrun by black people. I use the term 'overrun' without hesitation. The mall had become loud, unpleasant and sort of rough. Not to say black people are naturally rough, but the ones at this mall would jostle around and generally roughhouse near anyone. A lot of stores closed and you'd never see any white people at all unless you happened to pass a mirror. We stopped going there.

Now, there is also another mall in Joilet that was, as of the last time I visited in the mid 90's, very mixed in races but also very sedate in tone. Few people were loud, few people caused commotions. We kept going there until we moved out of state.

So yeah, in both theory and practice I would and have abandoned a place for the people who visit there.

As for the class issue that erupted in this thread; having worked in a book store that bordered both low rent and upscale areas, I can tell you that it's not really poor people who are the problem. It's people who lack discipline, regardless of sex, class, race, religion, etc. We had a lot of rich kids come in and trash the place, have sex in the bathrooms, 'spit contests' up the walls...it was vile. And some of the richest clientèle could be the most unpleasant. Conversely, the poor had similar 'problem' elements as well. It's often two types: teenagers (regardless of economic background), and adults who demand much more service than their eight dollar paperback purchase entitles them to. It was usually the rich people who fell into the second category, so money does play a part there.

Let me reiterate...lack of discipline and a demanding attitude, that is what makes dealing with people in public places unpleasant.

And...if I could select one form of public segregation, it would be to attend places where teenagers are verboten. Imagine a movie theater with no teens, or a mall void of anyone under 25. Sure, this would never happen because those places thrive on the disposable cash from teens and young adults, but it would be lovely nonetheless.

As for bars...this is where I truly feel economic status makes a difference...bars where poor people hang out are filthy, unpleasant and violent. The best bars are actually the ones that attract a sort of low level business crowd...nothing too rich or fancy...but clean and fun. Just my opinion. But you'll never catch me in a dive bar.


I think its funny that on MLK Day MG starts this thread

.....

[RBP]

A classic article on white privilege: http://www.nymbp.org/reference/WhitePrivilege.pdf

I have been exposed to a lot of reading and discussion on cultural difference and the concept of white privilege through school. I don't buy it all, but I thought some might find it interesting.

That being said, some of the comments are definitely pointing out cultural differences. They may not be considered "rude and angry black people" by other black people. I would depend on the level of acculturation to the white middle class values we judge them by. It's easy to see it through that lens and say they are different therefor they are bad, but it also might just be "different."

[Muddy]

And...if I could select one form of public segregation, it would be to attend places where teenagers are verboten. Imagine a movie theater with no teens, or a mall void of anyone under 25. Sure, this would never happen because those places thrive on the disposable cash from teens and young adults, but it would be lovely nonetheless.



I can dig this... Really a lot of my issues come from these little punk fuckers... After like 22 or 23 I can get along with about anybody...

[Southern Belle]

I understand what you're talking about Muddy. It's pretty obvious sometimes.

[KevinD]

In my case, when I used the term "class" it was in reference to a lack of class, not a social/economic class.

My family as some of y'all may know, was very poor when I was very young. As Joey said, being poor doesn't mean you have no respect for yourself or others. I'd have to guess that is more of a cultural thing and a byproduct of the welfare state, where you have multiple generations that haven't worked and babies having babies.

[JoeyB]

I can dig this... Really a lot of my issues come from these little punk fuckers... After like 22 or 23 I can get along with about anybody...

Little punk fuckers indeed. I think you and I see eye to eye on this point.


In my case, when I used the term "class" it was in reference to a lack of class, not a social/economic class.

You know, online I can be pretty classless and say the tackiest shit, case in point, I just said shit. But you put me in public and I always act with great consideration for others...saying thank you, please, opening doors for people. I'm quiet, respectful, and polite. That said, I'm not saying everyone else has to act in such a way, but a bit of common courtesy wouldn't hurt.

[Foxdana]

Another question, muddy, if this were to work, who would decided who was white or black? There is a huge variation! Not that I think this is a great idea, just another point.

[JoeyB]

Another question, muddy, if this were to work, who would decided who was white or black? There is a huge variation! Not that I think this is a great idea, just another point.

I will decide all such matters. Bow before me petty humans, and perhaps I will not vent cruel upon thee.

[Hal-9000]

http://i.imgur.com/mPHuC.jpg

:lol: I live in Calgary and was an Oilers fan (complete with home jersey) so I'm the kid on the left....within an entire city.Damn I know that feeling.



For Muddy's serious question - In our city it's becoming a brown against white thing.There are groups of brown folk that drive chopped cars, wear gold chains and hang out at malls.One mall very close to where I work has no English signage at all.Every store is 'Bollywood". I find that pretty insulting as this is a western frontier town at heart and English is our primary.

Fights at bars, malls do happen.....notsomuch with blacks or Asians for example.They seem to have no problems being Canadian first, then a color.

The brown folk on the other hand have a shitty element and they 'hate all things white'.Fine, leave here and settle somewhere else to find a job.

[Godfather]

^ Yep. The Vancouver Riots? Something like 80% of those arrested that night were Surrey residents (brown kids).

The reason I refuse to go to the 'party' district Downtown? Brown groups of roid-ragers in Ed Harty tee's starting fights over a bump or looking at 'their' women. I'm not exagerating.

It's a huge divide. They're a very cranky and proud bunch with HUGE egos, and they'll hurt people over nothing. We always say to never piss one off, because a dozen will jump you. There are even several large families of wealthy ones that were notorious where I grew up.

[DemonGeminiX]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFwkv14u3b4



:dance:

[Hal-9000]

^ Yep. The Vancouver Riots? Something like 80% of those arrested that night were Surrey residents (brown kids).

The reason I refuse to go to the 'party' district Downtown? Brown groups of roid-ragers in Ed Harty tee's starting fights over a bump or looking at 'their' women. I'm not exagerating.

It's a huge divide. They're a very cranky and proud bunch with HUGE egos, and they'll hurt people over nothing. We always say to never piss one off, because a dozen will jump you. There are even several large families of wealthy ones that were notorious where I grew up.

I hate to say it but that's what I'm seeing here....a contingent moves into the city in droves (thousands) and they start to intimidate local hangouts and malls with implied violence.Without sounding too Archie Bunker about it, they're changing our cultural holidays, our greetings, our school system and now they're changing the signage in our city.

I for one, would never move to a Middle Eastern country and start behaving that way.I'd be damn happy to have a job and a home....

[Godfather]

I hate to say it but that's what I'm seeing here....a contingent moves into the city in droves (thousands) and they start to intimidate local hangouts and malls with implied violence.Without sounding too Archie Bunker about it, they're changing our cultural holidays, our greetings, our school system and now they're changing the signage in our city.

I for one, would never move to a Middle Eastern country and start behaving that way.I'd be damn happy to have a job and a home....

I feel the same way... in fact, I'd love to live in a foreign country for a time. I'd embrace their ways, their cultures, cuisine, respect their city and try and learn the language. You would think others would come here with that same attitude. To be fair, most have... except this one group we're talking about.

Dude... if you ever come to Vancouver, stay away from the British Properties, the entire City of Surrey and Metrotown mall. Three great places to get stabbed.

[Teh One Who Knocks]

I hate to say it but that's what I'm seeing here....a contingent moves into the city in droves (thousands) and they start to intimidate local hangouts and malls with implied violence.Without sounding too Archie Bunker about it, they're changing our cultural holidays, our greetings, our school system and now they're changing the signage in our city.

I for one, would never move to a Middle Eastern country and start behaving that way.I'd be damn happy to have a job and a home....


I feel the same way... in fact, I'd love to live in a foreign country for a time. I'd embrace their ways, their cultures, cuisine, respect their city and try and learn the language. You would think others would come here with that same attitude. To be fair, most have... except this one group we're talking about.

Dude... if you ever come to Vancouver, stay away from the British Properties, the entire City of Surrey and Metrotown mall. Three great places to get stabbed.

Change 'brown people' to Mexican and that's what is happening here.

[Hal-9000]

I feel the same way... in fact, I'd love to live in a foreign country for a time. I'd embrace their ways, their cultures, cuisine, respect their city and try and learn the language. You would think others would come here with that same attitude. To be fair, most have... except this one group we're talking about.

Dude... if you ever come to Vancouver, stay away from the British Properties, the entire City of Surrey and Metrotown mall. Three great places to get stabbed.


I work in the NE quadrant of our city...Even the brown guys who work here call it Little India :lol: :lol:

[Hal-9000]

Change 'brown people' to Mexican and that's what is happening here.


For us brown can encompass everyone from Lebanese to East Indian.There's a lot of cultural diversity here...