Snarky Facebook comments no reason to fire teacher, judge rules

[Teh One Who Knocks]

The New York Post


NEW YORK – A New York teacher fired for posting snarky online comments suggesting her unruly students should drown can go back to the classroom, a judge ruled.

Manhattan Supreme Court Judge Barbara Jaffe last week overturned an administrative decision to boot Christine Rubino, who taught at PS 203 in Brooklyn, for posting "repulsive" comments on Facebook.

A blow to the city Department of Education, the ruling underscores the grueling process to fire teachers accused of misconduct or incompetence. Even after lengthy administrative trials, judges can reverse decisions either way, and prolong a costly battle.

"After today, I'm thinking the beach sounds like a wonderful idea for my 5th graders. I HATE THEIR GUTS! They are all the devils spawn!" Rubino wrote on Facebook on June 23, 2010.
She made the remarks one day after a 12-year-old Harlem girl, Nicole Suriel, drowned on a school trip to a Long Island beach.

When a Facebook friend asked, "oh you would let little Kwame float away!" Rubino posted in reply, "Yes, I wld not throw a life jacket in for a million!!"

While "offensive" and "repulsive," the comments were posted outside the school building and after hours, Jaffe ruled.

The judge found no evidence that Rubino, frustrated by her students' rowdy behavior, meant them actual harm or that the comments "affected her ability to teach."

[allsmiles]

Fired a girl for the same thing last week. Don't post shit about how much you hate your job/coworkers/boss where everyone can see. If you hate your job that much, then go find another one. I helped her do that.

[JoeyB]

Fired a girl for the same thing last week. Don't post shit about how much you hate your job/coworkers/boss where everyone can see. If you hate your job that much, then go find another one. I helped her do that.

I seriously hope you had at least one or two other valid reasons to fire her, otherwise, you could face litigation.

[allsmiles]

I seriously hope you had at least one or two other valid reasons to fire her, otherwise, you could face litigation.

Definitely. Even if I didn't, we have a policy in our employee handbook addressing social networking behavior, which includes an explanation of disciplinary action taken against an employee who breaks the policy, which includes termination of employment.

[Leefro]

We have that same code and face instant dismissal

[JoeyB]

We have that same code and face instant dismissal

Sounds kinky.

[Leefro]

Wanna Job ?

[allsmiles]

Besides, she is a teacher. Would you want to bring your child to school when you knew his/her teacher said something like that?

[JoeyB]

Wanna Job ?

You'd just fire me.


Besides, she is a teacher. Would you want to bring your child to school when you knew his/her teacher said something like that?

I have no children. So, first I'll need to kidnap some and then I can answer your question.

[Leefro]

Your reply should have been

Dunno what are the hours ?

Spinal Pap AOTS

[JoeyB]

Your reply should have been

Dunno what are the hours ?

Spinal Pap AOTS

Are you drinking? Or do I need to be drinking to understand this?

[PorkChopSandwiches]

Besides, she is a teacher. Would you want to bring your child to school when you knew his/her teacher said something like that?

Exactly, you are trusting that your kids are in a safe environment, and this woman doesn't sound safe to me.

[Hal-9000]

Fired a girl for the same thing last week. Don't post shit about how much you hate your job/coworkers/boss where everyone can see. If you hate your job that much, then go find another one. I helped her do that.

We had a receptionist and a CSR years ago who were buddies....they were both beautiful and vacant creatures :lol: I guess they used to email each other complaining about their female boss.One of them screwed up, sent a note to the boss rather than replying to her buddy...all about how the boss was a drill instructor, lesbian, horrible boss, etc etc.

busted! and two people out the door that day :lol:

[Hal-9000]

For this story I'm going to go against the opinions here....if she's posting at home, that's none of the school's business.She's entitled to an opinion no matter how horrible it may be...

[JoeyB]

For this story I'm going to go against the opinions here....if she's posting at home, that's none of the school's business.She's entitled to an opinion no matter how horrible it may be...

You aren't alone Hal...it's a terrible situation when people have their personal opinions censored by an employer. People aren't slaves and can think and say what they feel in private. And an at-home facebook account is personal, not business related.

If someone goes online at work, using company time and equipment, or using a company facebook page...fine, you fucked up, adios. Otherwise, the company should have no say.

[allsmiles]

For this story I'm going to go against the opinions here....if she's posting at home, that's none of the school's business.She's entitled to an opinion no matter how horrible it may be...

If I were in the position of the administrator, I would have done the same thing. If the higher-ups found out about the things she said, then children in her class and parents of children could find out, too. Not good. The judge states that her actions did not affect her ability to teach, but imagine how a child would feel, knowing that your teacher hates you and wants you to die. That would affect the children's ability to learn. If you are a teacher announcing to the public that you wish a classroom full of 10 and 11-year-olds should drown in the ocean, then you are in the wrong profession. Not to mention, incredibly immature and stupid. Saying it to a friend is one thing, but posting on facebook is another. If she was so open about her hatred of her job, then she obviously needed to find a different one; one where she doesn't publicly wish death upon children.

[RBP]

I just like the word "snarky" :shrug:

[Hal-9000]

If I were in the position of the administrator, I would have done the same thing. If the higher-ups found out about the things she said, then children in her class and parents of children could find out, too. Not good. The judge states that her actions did not affect her ability to teach, but imagine how a child would feel, knowing that your teacher hates you and wants you to die. That would affect the children's ability to learn. If you are a teacher announcing to the public that you wish a classroom full of 10 and 11-year-olds should drown in the ocean, then you are in the wrong profession. Not to mention, incredibly immature and stupid. Saying it to a friend is one thing, but posting on facebook is another. If she was so open about her hatred of her job, then she obviously needed to find a different one; one where she doesn't publicly wish death upon children.

Again...she has the right to express her views on Facebook, a forum, a chatroom, MSN Messenger, as long as it's not done using the school's resources or on the school's time while she's being paid.Yes, I think her comments are horrible.The danger is that if you start to censor areas associated with personal freedom and rights, where does it stop?

If I post here that I think Obama should be shot, should I expect gentlemen with dark glasses and suits to arrive on my doorstep tomorrow? It's not the subject matter of her message, it's the venue she's expressing it in that's the issue.

[Southern Belle]

snarky snarky snarky

[allsmiles]

Again...she has the right to express her views on Facebook, a forum, a chatroom, MSN Messenger, as long as it's not done using the school's resources or on the school's time while she's being paid.Yes, I think her comments are horrible.The danger is that if you start to censor areas associated with personal freedom and rights, where does it stop?

If I post here that I think Obama should be shot, should I expect gentlemen with dark glasses and suits to arrive on my doorstep tomorrow? It's not the subject matter of her message, it's the venue she's expressing it in that's the issue.

1. Obama is not a child
2. You are not responsible for his life 8 hours out of the day, 5 days a week
3. If you were and you said you said you hated him and wished he would die, my guess is that you would be fired

[JoeyB]

If I post here that I think Obama should be shot, should I expect gentlemen with dark glasses and suits to arrive on my doorstep tomorrow? It's not the subject matter of her message, it's the venue she's expressing it in that's the issue.

Actually, it is a crime to make threats against the president, and you will probably be men-in-blacked tomorrow. Or is that black-men-in? I don't know. But you might want to squirt some lube up your ass just to be safe.

Free speech for the win, however!

And just to put this out there to allsmiles, few things are as frustrating as working with children. Children are fucking evil. I can see wanting to go home and vent. Also, who doesn't say violate or hateful things just to blow off steam? Saying you want to drown kids as a way to vent your anger is a lot better than actually acting up in a violent fashion towards the children. And frankly, it means nothing! Come on...don't take comments like that literally, or I'll kill you and eat Jez's liver.**

**-see, just a joke. I'd never do those things. I'm a pacifist and a vegetarian. But otherwise, you'd be fucked. :huh::wavey::mrgreen:

[allsmiles]

Actually, it is a crime to make threats against the president, and you will probably be men-in-blacked tomorrow. Or is that black-men-in? I don't know. But you might want to squirt some lube up your ass just to be safe.

Free speech for the win, however!

And just to put this out there to allsmiles, few things are as frustrating as working with children. Children are fucking evil. I can see wanting to go home and vent. Also, who doesn't say violate or hateful things just to blow off steam? Saying you want to drown kids as a way to vent your anger is a lot better than actually acting up in a violent fashion towards the children. And frankly, it means nothing! Come on...don't take comments like that literally, or I'll kill you and eat Jez's liver.**

**-see, just a joke. I'd never do those things. I'm a pacifist and a vegetarian. But otherwise, you'd be fucked. :huh::wavey::mrgreen:

I know all about the frustrations and joys of working with children. I also have the common sense to be careful about who I vent to and how. I will say that no one wants to do business with someone who clearly hates their job and isn't shy about who knows it, whether the job has to do with children or not. I don't think you would want to eat at a restaurant where the chef announces that he hates his job and he wishes all of his customers would die. Just saying.

[Leefro]

I don't think you would want to eat at a restaurant where the chef announces that he hates his job and he wishes all of his customers would die. Just saying.

I hate my job and people that eat my food might die

[JoeyB]

I don't think you would want to eat at a restaurant where the chef announces that he hates his job and he wishes all of his customers would die. Just saying.

Not if he said it while on duty, no. But if he did it at home that's his business, as long as he does his job right, who cares.


I hate my job and people that eat my food might die

Sounds like you might not be doing your job right.

[allsmiles]

Not if he said it while on duty, no. But if he did it at home that's his business, as long as he does his job right, who cares.



Sounds like you might not be doing your job right.

Saying it off duty is fine, but saying it to a crowd of frequent/potential customers/clients is not. It disparages the reputation of the establishment.

[JoeyB]

Saying it off duty is fine, but saying it to a crowd of frequent/potential customers/clients is not. It disparages the reputation of the establishment.

I'm only speaking of off duty comments. I already said and firmly believe that if you do it while at work, it is actionable. I'm just spitballin' about private time commentary is all, which I feel is none of the businesses uh...business...

[KevinD]

Gotta agree with Joey and Hal here....Private time should still be just that. If I'm at a bar (social place) blowing off steam to my buddy about the piss ass day I just had, how is that different than what she did?

[JoeyB]

Gotta agree with Joey and Hal here....Private time should still be just that. If I'm at a bar (social place) blowing off steam to my buddy about the piss ass day I just had, how is that different than what she did?

Seriously, look at that icon and tell me it doesn't make you think of a vagina...

[KevinD]

So, when you post that in response to my thread, are you calling me a pussy?




LOL

[JoeyB]

So, when you post that in response to my thread, are you calling me a pussy?




LOL

Actually, I never even thought of that!

In an unrelated matter, it's time to go edit EVERY post I ever made to acid trip...

[KevinD]

hahahaha...

[Leefro]

Saying it off duty is fine, but saying it to a crowd of frequent/potential customers/clients is not. It disparages the reputation of the establishment.

Is chucking things around the place ok ?

Done that many times

[Muddy]

I'm with Allsmiles on this one..

[JoeyB]

I'm with Allsmiles on this one..

You just want to see some boobs.

















PM me a copy...

[Hal-9000]

1. Obama is not a child
2. You are not responsible for his life 8 hours out of the day, 5 days a week
3. If you were and you said you said you hated him and wished he would die, my guess is that you would be fired


I understand all of that :lol:


Here, I'll try one more time because I'm not being clear....she made the comments on a social networking site, away from her place of work.Are her opinions horrible because of her profession and in general? Yes.Should she be a teacher? I can't make that evaluation from her opinions in a texting environment.I could however make a judgement based on her actions......

The only thing I'm trying to impart here is that venues like Facebook, home email, messenger...are all realms of opinion.Should someone take notice after her comments about wishing that children should drown? Yes, she may need psychological help.Or she was just having a bad day, like we all do, and made some comments off the cuff.

The entire point is that do we arrest people for posting an opinion? I hate the drivers in my city and have often mentioned I'd like to be in an elevated position with a sniper scope....does that mean I'm going to shoot random people? Probably not.

If she emailed a coworker with the same rant through the school's network, she should be terminated instantly in my opinion.You see Allsmiles, I agree wholeheartedly with your feelings right now.The slippery slope is - How much can we hold people accountable for in the virtual texting world?

[Acid Trip]

Actually, I never even thought of that!

In an unrelated matter, it's time to go edit EVERY post I ever made to acid trip...

So you can edit out all the dumb shit you say and then try to back it up? Too late for that now.

[Hal-9000]

gettin kinda snarky in this thread too.....


I always leave my dumb shit in every post I make.Even after multiple edits, the main dumb shit core thought is always intact and shines right through :)

[JoeyB]

gettin kinda snarky in this thread too.....


I always leave my dumb shit in every post I make.Even after multiple edits, the main dumb shit core thought is always intact and shines right through :)

How do you get your shit so shiny?

[Hal-9000]

Multiple edits and long paragraphs of drivel...wears a reader down while simultaneously making the words glisten

[Leefro]

Did she sign an agreement where she could not use networking site to slag off her place of work or pupils

If she did then did not adhere to this then the sack it should be

[JoeyB]

Did she sign an agreement where she could not use networking site to slag off her place of work or pupils

If she did then did not adhere to this then the sack it should be

She did, but the fact that businesses are even allowed to insist on such things is absurd in and of itself.