Obama Proposes $800 Million In Aid For "Arab Spring"

[PorkChopSandwiches]

http://i.imgur.com/TgUQd.jpg

(Reuters) - The White House announced plans on Monday to help "Arab Spring" countries swept by revolutions with more than $800 million in economic aid, while maintaining U.S. military aid to Egypt.

In his annual budget message to Congress, President Barack Obama asked that military aid to Egypt be kept at the level of recent years -- $1.3 billion -- despite a crisis triggered by an Egyptian probe targeting American democracy activists.

The proposals are part of Obama's budget request for fiscal year 2013, which begins October 1. His requests need the approval of Congress, where some lawmakers want to cut overseas spending to address U.S. budget shortfalls and are particularly angry at Egypt.

Obama proposed $51.6 billion in funding for the U.S. State Department and foreign aid overall, when $8.2 billion in assistance to war zones is included. The "core budget" for the category would increase by 1.6 percent, officials said.

Most of the economic aid for the Arab Spring countries -- $770 million -- would go to establish a new "Middle East and North Africa Incentive Fund," the president said in his budget plan.

Analysts said it was difficult to tell how much of the proposal was actually new money.

"As presented it's very difficult to determine if the Arab spring fund is new wine in new bottles or old wine in new bottles," said John Norris, a former U.S. foreign aid worker now at the Center for American Progress.

The Middle East and North Africa Incentive fund "will provide incentives for long-term economic, political, and trade reforms to countries in transition -- and to countries prepared to make reforms proactively," the White House budget document said.

The proposal said this approach "expands our bilateral economic support in countries such as Tunisia and Yemen, where transitions are already underway."

It would also build on other programs for the area, including up to $2 billion in regional Overseas Private Investment Corporation financing, up to $1 billion in debt swaps for Egypt, and approximately $500 million in existing funds re-allocated to respond to the region last year, the budget document said.

It did not say how the Middle East and North Africa Incentive Fund would be divided between countries, or give any other details of the plan.

Egypt has long been among the top recipients of U.S. aid, getting about $1.6 billion annually, mostly in military assistance. In fiscal 2012, $250 million of aid approved for Egypt was economic; $1.3 billion was military and there was a $60 million "enterprise fund" approved by Congress.

No U.S. assistance is moving to Egypt at the moment, U.S. lawmakers and their aides said last week. Some legislators favor cutting off aid to Egypt entirely if it does not drop accusations against American democracy activists and lift a travel ban on them.

Obama continued the practice of putting proposed foreign assistance for war zones in a separate account. This account, known as the "Overseas Contingency Operations," includes $8.2 billion for the State Department and foreign aid.

It includes $3.3 billion for Afghanistan, $1 billion for Pakistan, and $4 billion for Iraq, where U.S. troops have left the country but the State Department has picked up some of their functions such as police training.

[perrhaps]

This is acceptable only if all $800 million is in the form of hand grenades, with an equal amount delivered to all rival factions.

This will help create jobs, too.

[Teh One Who Knocks]

Soooooo....are we gonna borrow this money from the Chinese too? :-k


:roll:

[PorkChopSandwiches]

idiotic

[Muddy]

wtfuck "arab spring".. We cant afford this shit mother fucker...

[PorkChopSandwiches]

Its just a billion dollars

[Teh One Who Knocks]

But the Dow is up and unemployment is down :tup:

[Jezter]

This is not very smart... I can figure out a billion better reasons to keep the money in the US to fix things...

[Muddy]

But the Dow is up and unemployment is down :tup:

Fuck it, lets go shopping then... :lol:

[Muddy]

Any idea what the last Republican president in office had budgeted for use in the middle east for comparison value?

[PorkChopSandwiches]

FBD will tell you

[Muddy]

I wonder if he will include the cost of the Iraq war in that number?

[Acid Trip]

The only candidate for president that has made a budget is Ron Paul (as far as I know). If you don't get the party nod then creating a budget is a waste of time. They may not even consider making a budget until the election is decided.

[JoeyB]

This is a tiny amount of money when you consider the scale involved. Furthermore, think about what it does...it funds countries that have overthrown dictatorships. Now consider that and look at the vast sums of money we have dumped into wars that have left countries no better off or even worse than when we started. This minuscule by comparison investment will help stabilize regions that could go either way, forward towards more peace or backtracking into repressive regimes. Which benefits us, America, more? Obviously, the more open minded, democratic countries would be far less dangerous, much more open to trade, and a solid calming faction in a really volatile region.

This is a wise investment...one that could pay vast dividends. If it prevents even one war, we have already made back our money dozens of times over. Add to that the influence and favoritism it could create, and you can see why this money is well spent.

I'd argue we need to invest far more than 800 million, all things considered.

[Muddy]

This is a tiny amount of money when you consider the scale involved. Furthermore, think about what it does...it funds countries that have overthrown dictatorships. Now consider that and look at the vast sums of money we have dumped into wars that have left countries no better off or even worse than when we started. This minuscule by comparison investment will help stabilize regions that could go either way, forward towards more peace or backtracking into repressive regimes. Which benefits us, America, more? Obviously, the more open minded, democratic countries would be far less dangerous, much more open to trade, and a solid calming faction in a really volatile region.

This is a wise investment...one that could pay vast dividends. If it prevents even one war, we have already made back our money dozens of times over. Add to that the influence and favoritism it could create, and you can see why this money is well spent.

I'd argue we need to invest far more than 800 million, all things considered.


Is this proposal a balanced budget?

[PorkChopSandwiches]

:facepalm:

[perrhaps]

This is a tiny amount of money when you consider the scale involved. Furthermore, think about what it does...it funds countries that have overthrown dictatorships. Now consider that and look at the vast sums of money we have dumped into wars that have left countries no better off or even worse than when we started. This minuscule by comparison investment will help stabilize regions that could go either way, forward towards more peace or backtracking into repressive regimes. Which benefits us, America, more? Obviously, the more open minded, democratic countries would be far less dangerous, much more open to trade, and a solid calming faction in a really volatile region.

This is a wise investment...one that could pay vast dividends. If it prevents even one war, we have already made back our money dozens of times over. Add to that the influence and favoritism it could create, and you can see why this money is well spent.

I'd argue we need to invest far more than 800 million, all things considered.

Let's give money to slightly-less barbaric than their formergovernment people who hate us only a little less than the last Camel Jockeys-in Chiefs. Good thinking, Bubba-looey !:wave:


(On second thought, maybe it's not so crazy. I give lots of my money in income taxes to the Government, which passes it along to our-rapidly increasing, lazy-ass welfare masses, who Obama wants to hate rich people, apparently because we give them all their welfare money)

[JoeyB]

Is this proposal a balanced budget?

It's a lot more balanced than dumping hundreds of billions of dollars into useless wars that give us paltry results and leave behind locals who bear us ill will.

The middle east and North Africa are regions that need positive images and feelings towards us. It's a unique historical moment when we can make friends with nascent governments, or pass on the opportunity and continue down the disastrous pathway we already follow in our relations with this region.

It's important to think ahead. Consider this an investment in our future. War lovers won't understand the value of it, but you can Muddy.


Let's give money to slightly-less barbaric than their formergovernment people who hate us only a little less than the last Camel Jockeys-in Chiefs. Good thinking, Bubba-looey !:wave:


(On second thought, maybe it's not so crazy. I give lots of my money in income taxes to the Government, which passes it along to our-rapidly increasing, lazy-ass welfare masses, who Obama wants to hate rich people, apparently because we give them all their welfare money)

Hatred of the poor, how very un-Christian.

[Muddy]

It's a lot more balanced than dumping hundreds of billions of dollars into useless wars that give us paltry results and leave behind locals who bear us ill will.

The middle east and North Africa are regions that need positive images and feelings towards us. It's a unique historical moment when we can make friends with nascent governments, or pass on the opportunity and continue down the disastrous pathway we already follow in our relations with this region.

It's important to think ahead. Consider this an investment in our future. War lovers won't understand the value of it, but you can Muddy.


I understand the reasoning.. I just am curious if the budget he put forth is balanced or not...

[Acid Trip]

I understand the reasoning.. I just am curious if the budget he put forth is balanced or not...

It's over 1 trillion in the red so it's not even close to balanced.

[Teh One Who Knocks]

I understand the reasoning.. I just am curious if the budget he put forth is balanced or not...


It's over 1 trillion in the red so it's not even close to balanced.

Yup, supposed to be either $1.2 or $1.3 trillion (don't remember which) deficit with the new budget he's proposing.

So hey, what's an extra billion here or there, spend whatever you like, the treasury can just print more :tup:

[Godfather]

And aren't there kids in the US who go to school hungry? And sick people too sick to work who can't afford treatment?

I get what Joey is saying that it's not very much, and these are some broke ass folks... but isn't this just one more slap to many Americans in need?

[Acid Trip]

And aren't there kids in the US who go to school hungry? And sick people too sick to work who can't afford treatment?

I get what Joey is saying that it's not very much, and these are some broke ass folks... but isn't this just one more slap in to many Americans in need?

Yes, yes, and yes.

If someone says "it's only a billion" add that with all the other "it's only a billion" projects and you'll see how we got to be in the hole we're in. One thousand "only a billion" expenditures still equals a trillion no matter how you slice it.

[Godfather]

Yes, yes, and yes.

If someone says "it's only a billion" add that with all the other "it's only a billion" projects and you'll see how we got to be in the hole we're in. One thousand "only a billion" expenditures still equals a trillion no matter how you slice it.

It's a dangerous way of thinking. Every government is guilty.

I remember the Student Union at my Uni always polling to add $1 on for this, and that. Dozens of times. I always voted no - good cause or bad. This small picture way of looking at a budget is dangerous and ridiculous. It's how our Starbucks fix becomes a thousand-dollar-a-year habit.

I'm not disagreeing with Joey that cost of wars in the last 10 years isn't a huge problem, but that doesn't rationalize a billion dollars become a nominal amount does it?

:lol:
http://i40.tinypic.com/219cnyb.jpg

[Muddy]

Its crazy to me to put forth a budget that isn't balanced...

[JoeyB]

And aren't there kids in the US who go to school hungry? And sick people too sick to work who can't afford treatment?

I get what Joey is saying that it's not very much, and these are some broke ass folks... but isn't this just one more slap to many Americans in need?


I'm not disagreeing with Joey that cost of wars in the last 10 years isn't a huge problem, but that doesn't rationalize a billion dollars become a nominal amount does it?


Penny wise and pound foolish to ignore an opportunity like this...an investment in peace now pays massive dividends later.

Kids go hungry in the US because of our bloated military budget and the fact that the rich get away with murder, financially speaking. I myself haven't seen a doctor in twenty years despite some near death experiences. Those problems need to be fixed but this is a separate issue. Meanwhile, this minuscule investment now will give our children something valuable later: less war, more stability, and almost certainly less money spent on defense.


Its crazy to me to put forth a budget that isn't balanced...

I'm going to say something unpopular. But, with the way things are stacked now, with corporations paying no taxes while reaping huge profits, with war debts out of control, and with a crumbling infrastructure and a massive lack of jobs, we actually can't afford a balanced budget at this time. We had one, once, handed down by Clinton. Then Bush took over, with his perplexing tax cuts for the rich and his insane wars which have crippled us.

Debt will be with us for the time being. We need to establish more order and stability and then we can balance the budget again.

A 'balanced' budget right now would cut things we desperately need to bring about that stability.

[perrhaps]

If you haven't seen a doctor in almost 20 years, then it's safe to assume that you don't have employment that has good health insurance and/or you're self-employed and don't make much money. Sounds like you've made some questionable career choices, although I'll give you credit for not being on welfare, which provides the best health insurance in America.

I've owned; been a partner in; been a significant shareholder, etc. in over a dozen businesses in the past 30 years. I've also been an officer or director in a number of non-profit or charitable organizations. In response to your smug comment about me "hating the poor", I've led a number of charitable fund-raising efforts. I also volunteer 4 hours a week of janitorial labor at a free community medical clinic that treats folks without medical insurance.

If there's one thing I've learned from all these experiences, it's that you never prepare a budget that spends more than anticipated earnings unless you have adequate cash reserves to make up the shortfall. Never.

If you want to live in The United States of Greece, just keep throwing money around (and away) that you don't have. While you're at it Joey, just keep on keeping on with a system that now has third-generation welfare bums living in subsidized housing that was originally designed to be a temporary respite for folks who were down on their luck.

When I was a kid, there was no welfare, or food stamps. Let me know if there was pandemic starvation in the 1950s and early 1960s here in America., because I sure can't remember it.

You claim to want "stability", but only at an extreme cost to future generations. How pathetically selfish.


Finally, Joey, before you continue criticizing those of us who are tired of both Republican and Democratic presidents who've foolishly increased our national debt and who are incensed at The Community Organizer's plan to increase taxes before making a sincere effort to cut marginal spending programs like Arab Spring I respectfully suggest to you that you start a business, provide your employees with competitive wages and benefits and then after you become successful, listen to the bullshit I'm hearing that somehow this makes me evil, and that I should pay more taxes to a spendthrift corrupt government.

Or, I guess you can choose to keep on not seeing a doctor for another 20 years, unless the nanny-state takes more money from "rich people" so you can go for free.

[PorkChopSandwiches]

:ronpaul:

[Jezter]

Or, I guess you can choose to keep on not seeing a doctor for another 20 years, unless the nanny-state takes more money from "rich people" so you can go for free.

It doesn't have to be a nanny-state to actually have functional, universal healthcare...just sayin'. Otherwise I do tend to agree with you. Besides, if they start a war somewhere there in the arab region, then let them fucking have their war. It is not so that the US needs to always be patrolling and policing in every friggin' corner of the world where there is war. You guys need to learn to do something else than send your troops around the world. Bring them home first and give them safer jobs on the US soil and let them do their part rebuilding the US of A instead of trying to force democracy in god forsaken countries and rebuild them after bombing them for 10 years straight.

[PorkChopSandwiches]

Are you running for president? :tup:

[Jezter]

Are you running for president? :tup:

Maybe someday I will. I'll do the Texas governor/senate/whatever first to fix things there. Then I'll Finnotize the rest of the country. :lol:

[perrhaps]

Maybe someday I will. I'll do the Texas governor/senate/whatever first to fix things there. Then I'll Finnotize the rest of the country. :lol:


Go for it !:cheerlead:

[Muddy]

*nukes Finland*

[Acid Trip]

Maybe someday I will. I'll do the California governor/senate/whatever first to fix things there. Then I'll Finnotize the rest of the country. :lol:

Fixed. If you can turn Cali around you can do anything.

[Jezter]

*nukes Finland*
Yay! Glowing snow! Makes wandering outside much more fun. Matches the Northern Lights in the sky then. :lol:

Fixed. If you can turn Cali around you can do anything.
I'll leave that to Porky Pork. :D

[PorkChopSandwiches]

Nobody listens to me

[MrsM]

Nobody listens to me

Sorry, what? I wasn't listening :dance:

[PorkChopSandwiches]

:slap:

[Acid Trip]

Nobody listens to me


Sorry, what? I wasn't listening :dance:

:rofl:

[Muddy]

Sorry, what? I wasn't listening :dance:

He said :ronpaul:

[PorkChopSandwiches]

:dance:

[JoeyB]

You claim to want "stability", but only at an extreme cost to future generations. How pathetically selfish.

Or, I guess you can choose to keep on not seeing a doctor for another 20 years, unless the nanny-state takes more money from "rich people" so you can go for free.

Selfish is the entire neo-con agenda. My solutions are about making sure that the mistakes of the BUSH era are not dumped on the kids, as I stated earlier in this thread. Which is why you invest in peace, not war.

Also, we had a balanced budget under Clinton, then Bush came and fought useless wars and cut taxes for the rich and refunded tax money even while racking up a massive debt. You don't crawl out from that train wreckage overnight.

A balanced budget now would mean cuts to the very programs that are sustaining this country, as well as delaying much needed improvements, job creating infrastructure improvements. Those cuts would hurt people and further destabilize us. Which in turn means that future generations will suffer.

Now, you take on some debt now, you fix what is wrong, and you get things working normally...once you have done that, you work on balancing the budget...like Clinton had given us.

Balancing the budget now would be like pulling the life support machines off a guy in intensive care. Sure, it saves money in the short term but the long term effects are pretty dismal. Nope, you stabilize the patient first and then you take away the life support.

The only safe way to balance the budget right now would be to slash military spending by half...a theory I have presented before and shown that even at half of what we spend now we maintain a uselessly large war machine.


It doesn't have to be a nanny-state to actually have functional, universal healthcare...just sayin'. Otherwise I do tend to agree with you. Besides, if they start a war somewhere there in the arab region, then let them fucking have their war. It is not so that the US needs to always be patrolling and policing in every friggin' corner of the world where there is war. You guys need to learn to do something else than send your troops around the world. Bring them home first and give them safer jobs on the US soil and let them do their part rebuilding the US of A instead of trying to force democracy in god forsaken countries and rebuild them after bombing them for 10 years straight.

Jez understands what we are doing wrong militarily. Again, no more stupid, expensive wars. Invest in peace. This money is being proposed as aid to those countries that have DONE the revolution part. They've done it! Not us, not our military. What we do now is support their nascent governments, and make some long term friends.


Nobody listens to me

I comment on every repost you ever make.

[perrhaps]

You want to improve infrastructure improvements? Fine, then make every able-bodied welfare reciprient work for their money. Gee, is this just another example of my anti-Christian hatred of the poor?

As far as throwing money at our new Islamic "buddies" goes, if you really think they'll still be our allies ten years from now, please change your forum name to "Pollyanna"

[PorkChopSandwiches]

"anti-Christian hatred of the poor"


Mods can I get a name change?

[JoeyB]

You want to improve infrastructure improvements? Fine, then make every able-bodied welfare reciprient work for their money. Gee, is this just another example of my anti-Christian hatred of the poor?

As far as throwing money at our new Islamic "buddies" goes, if you really think they'll still be our allies ten years from now, please change your forum name to "Pollyanna"

So, sorry dude, but before this goes the way those things did I have to shitcan you.

Lance will be pleased I cut this off at the knees. That fucking rhymes too!

It's nothing personal, but the 'ignore' is necessary before I get more unhappy PM's.

[DemonGeminiX]

Mods can I get a name change?

Let me guess:

Sir PorkchopSandwiches the Magnificient, Omnipotent Scourge of the Universe?

:-s

[Teh One Who Knocks]

Let me guess:

Sir PorkchopSandwiches the Magnificient, Omnipotent Scourge of the Universe?

:-s

No, I think he's looking for "anti-Christian hatred of the poor" as his new name :lol:

[JoeyB]

In case you missed it, Porky said nobody reads his posts. Are you trying to make a liar of him?

[DemonGeminiX]

No, I think he's looking for "anti-Christian hatred of the poor" as his new name :lol:

:hand:

That's too obvious. He couldn't want that.

[PorkChopSandwiches]

That was it ;)

[DemonGeminiX]

:nono:

Quit lying to yourself, Porky.

"Sir PorkchopSandwiches the Magnificient, Omnipotent Scourge of the Universe" just has a certain ring to it. You'll love it. It'll grow on you.

[Pony]

Let me guess:

Sir PorkchopSandwiches the Magnificient, Omnipotent Scourge of the Universe?

:-s

SPSMOSU for short.

[JoeyB]

That was it ;)

Partly read.

[PorkChopSandwiches]

Party rock?

[JoeyB]

Party rock?

Glanced at.

[DemonGeminiX]

Party hard?

[KevinD]

Haven;t read the whole thread yet, but had to step in and address this mistaken idea that the Clinton Admin left a Balanced Budget, or better yet, a Budget Surplus. This is fallacy, and has been proved many, many, many times.
Here's a link with the basics:

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2012/feb/6/clinton-gingrich-and-the-balanced-budget-myth/

I'll read the rest of the thread in a bit.

[Muddy]

Party rock?

Perfect.. :lol:

[Acid Trip]

Haven;t read the whole thread yet, but had to step in and address this mistaken idea that the Clinton Admin left a Balanced Budget, or better yet, a Budget Surplus. This is fallacy, and has been proved many, many, many times.
Here's a link with the basics:

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2012/feb/6/clinton-gingrich-and-the-balanced-budget-myth/

I'll read the rest of the thread in a bit.

Warning! Warning! Facts and Logic detected! This thread will self destruct in 10 seconds...

[KevinD]

It's still here. Must be built with a wall of party line BS. lol