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View Full Version : Records shows welfare cash-withdraws at strip clubs



Teh One Who Knocks
02-28-2012, 02:36 PM
Written by Jeremy Jojola - 9 News Colorado


http://i.imgur.com/QUFhy.jpg

DENVER - After a three-month investigation, 9Wants to Know has uncovered welfare cash-withdraws at ATMs in strip clubs, casinos, bingo halls and amusement parks despite a state law banning such transactions at some businesses.

9Wants to Know also discovered more than $1 million in welfare is also going to ATM owners and banks through transaction fees per every year.

9Wants to Know reviewed 222,000 transactions involving Colorado Quest cards, the state-issued debit cards welfare recipients use to access cash at ATMs. The transactions occurred during a six-month period in 2011.

"When you see the type of obvious abuses that you've shown, it says there are people on welfare that should not be," Jon Caldara, of the conservative watchdog group The Independence Institute, said. "And people are throwing that away."

While current state law bans welfare transactions at casinos and liquor stores, it does not prohibit cash withdraws at strip clubs. Violating the law does not result in any penalties either.

A new federal law signed by President Barack Obama last week forces states to ban all such transactions within the next two years or face the consequence of losing federal funding. The federal ban is part of the Middle Class Tax Relief and Job Creation Act of 2012.

A person who uses welfare named Curtis was outraged when he heard about the welfare abuse.

"I think it pretty much sucks," Curtis said.

He uses the Colorado Quest card to survive.

"There are people who are getting it who shouldn't be getting it. That's backing up the system for the people who do need it," he said.

Liquor stores - Prohibited

9Wants to Know calculates more than $40,000 was withdrawn from ATMs located inside liquor stores in the Denver area between May 1 and Nov. 30, 2011.

The top three busiest locations are located Colfax Avenue
- Josh Liquor - 6569 W. Colfax Avenue - $5,880
- B&B Liquor - 7035 E. Colfax Avenue - $5,020
- E&A Liquor - 3230 W. Colfax Avenue - $3,880

"I think it's wrong," Steve Ziporlin, who works at a grocery store near Josh Liquor, said. "The money is supposed to be used for groceries and sundries."

Casinos - Prohibited

9Wants to Know found numerous transactions at ATMs inside casinos in Black Hawk. The most transactions occurred at the Wild Card Saloon Casino, with 208 transactions through its ATM for a combined withdrawn amount of around $15,000.

In one case, a welfare recipient withdrew $500 during one transaction at the casino.

9Wants to Know also found 56 transactions at the Bull Durham Casino and a handful of transactions at the Black Hawk Station Casino.

"The state is giving them money and to come up here and play with it, I think that's defeated them and their families," Pat Schmidt said as she walked out of a casino. "It comes out of our pocket."

Bingo halls - Prohibited

9Wants to Know found 29 transactions at bingo halls around the state, including in Turn 2 Bingo in Denver and Bingo World in Colorado Springs.

Strip clubs - Not Prohibited

Current state law does not prohibit welfare recipients from accessing cash from ATMs inside strip clubs.

9Wants to Know counted 14 transactions at strip club Shotgun Willie's for a combined amount of $1,500. Taxpayers also covered the $6.50 ATM fee for each transaction.

9Wants to Know found a handful of transactions at other strip clubs, including Diamond Cabaret, La Boheme and Dandy Dan's.

Elitch Gardens Theme Park - Not Prohibited

Thirty-three transactions were found inside Elitch Gardens Theme Park during the six-month period reviewed by 9Wants to Know. A handful of the transactions occurred at an ATM inside the water-park section.

Out-of-state transactions

9Wants to Know also identified two transactions totaling $160 at Disneyland, one transaction for $140 at Universal Studios and $1,000 worth of transactions in a liquor store in Los Angeles.

Several transactions were found at ATMs along the Las Vegas strip.

Banks and ATM owners getting a piece

Out of the 222,000 transactions reviewed by 9Wants to Know, 80 percent occurred at ATM that applied a fee to the welfare accounts.

9Wants to Know estimates ATM owners and banks collected $540,000 in fees during that six-month period.

The local banking industry in Colorado says the fees are the cost of doing business.

"Annual maintenance on such a machine will be $12,000 to $15,000 per year. That's a lot of money that you have to recover," Don Childears, president of the Colorado Bankers Association, said.

After 9Wants to Know inquired about ATM fees, the Colorado Human Services Department said it's sending out updated flyers to welfare recipients to help them avoid surcharges on their accounts.

The flyers encourage recipients to use Chase Bank ATMs, where there are no extra surcharges. Chase still collects 85-cents-per-transaction regardless of what ATM is used.

"I don't like ATM fees," Julie Kirksick, of Colorado's Health and Human Services Department, said. "But do I think it's right and that I want to see it continue? No."

State law lacks penalty

Neither welfare recipients nor businesses face a penalty under the law that bans transactions at casinos and liquor stores.

Southern Belle
02-28-2012, 02:51 PM
Card use can be limited to certain classifications that are stored by code number. The place I just worked had purchasing cards that couldn't be used for porn, alcohol, things like that because of the bank's classification codes.
The people are getting around that by withdrawing cash from ATMs at the places, then paying for the unapproved services & products with cash.
If they can afford all that, they probably don't need to be getting welfare. It's a slap in the face to people who are struggling to feed their families.

RBP
02-28-2012, 03:06 PM
I don't know what difference it makes where they withdraw cash. If it's an issue stop all cash withdrawals.

MrsM
02-28-2012, 03:13 PM
When I read this the first thought was if they some how were able to limit it - how would they prevent someone from going to a bank and taking the cash out and spending the cash at these places?

RBP
02-28-2012, 03:17 PM
When I read this the first thought was if they some how were able to limit it - how would they prevent someone from going to a bank and taking the cash out and spending the cash at these places?

exactly.

I think it was acid trip who said the business just moves to the ATM at the gas station across from the strip club.

Teh One Who Knocks
02-28-2012, 03:29 PM
You can't expect to stop all fraud like this, but the idea is to at least make it harder for people to screw the taxpayers FFS. Don't give them the convenience of accessing their 'free' money right at the liquor store of casino or strip club.

RBP
02-28-2012, 03:30 PM
You can't expect to stop all fraud like this, but the idea is to at least make it harder for people to screw the taxpayers FFS. Don't give them the convenience of accessing their 'free' money right at the liquor store of casino or strip club.

Fair enough

PorkChopSandwiches
02-28-2012, 03:45 PM
Just revoke the card when these types of transactions show up.

Arkady Renko
02-28-2012, 03:49 PM
it does suck a great deal to see welfare recipients spend much of their money for frivolous stuff, but I don't see a better option than those special debit cards. Cash would obviously be even worse and vouchers for everything would create a huge bureaucratic follow up. Plus they could always trade vouchers for cash, booze or whatever.

PorkChopSandwiches
02-28-2012, 03:54 PM
it does suck a great deal to see welfare recipients spend much of their money for frivolous stuff, but I don't see a better option than those special debit cards. Cash would obviously be even worse and vouchers for everything would create a huge bureaucratic follow up. Plus they could always trade vouchers for cash, booze or whatever.

Its easy, you allow the cards to be used for food and drink purchases only. No cash, no best buy purchases no bullshit

Acid Trip
02-28-2012, 03:59 PM
Maybe it was the welfare mom's withdrawing money while at work (aka the strip club)?

Arkady Renko
02-28-2012, 04:04 PM
Its easy, you allow the cards to be used for food and drink purchases only. No cash, no best buy purchases no bullshit

would't that be a bitch to police?

PorkChopSandwiches
02-28-2012, 04:08 PM
would't that be a bitch to police?

I doubt it, not if this is true



Card use can be limited to certain classifications that are stored by code number. The place I just worked had purchasing cards that couldn't be used for porn, alcohol, things like that because of the bank's classification codes.

Southern Belle
02-28-2012, 04:11 PM
Merchant Category Codes

It's used by all plastic issuers. Even mine and yours. Google it.

Southern Belle
02-28-2012, 04:12 PM
http://www.dm.usda.gov/procurement/card/card_x/mcc.pdf

Southern Belle
02-28-2012, 04:13 PM
I may be wrong about ALL plastic. Apparently, these are for "procurement" cards.

Southern Belle
02-28-2012, 04:15 PM
http://www.creditcards.com/credit-card-news/credit-card-purchase-privacy-1282.php

Maybe this should be a separate thread...

Arkady Renko
02-28-2012, 04:50 PM
interesting, that might come in handy for a ot of situations, if you leave the privacy concerns aside.

PorkChopSandwiches
02-28-2012, 05:25 PM
interesting, that might come in handy for a ot of situations, if you leave the privacy concerns aside.

I dont see why there would be a privacy issue when you are on the tit

Arkady Renko
02-29-2012, 01:41 PM
Over here it's a huge issue, particularly when automated database crosschecks are concerned. In my opinion it's mostly an excuse for the lefty parties to do one of their most important voter groups a favour. After all, 7 million voters living on either unemployment benefits or welfare in a country of 82 million people are a force to be reckoned with. And these folks are highly motivated to vote because even small changes in legislation affect their income a lot.

At the end of the day, I suppose the same applies to the US. Welfare recipients are just another voter group that needs to be pandered to if you want a good shot at winning elections.

---> no representation without taxation