Virginia Tech shooting: two victims' families awarded $4m each

[RBP]

Jury finds university negligent over killing of Julia Pryde and Erin Peterson, who were among 32 killed in 2007 massacre

http://i.imgur.com/GuAnQ.jpg

A jury has found Virginia Tech negligent in a 2007 massacre in which 32 people were killed and recommended payouts of $4m (£2.5m) each to two families because the university was too slow in issuing a warning that a gunman was on the loose.

The families of students Julia Pryde and Erin Peterson brought the wrongful death lawsuit against the state university. The pair were killed before their fellow student Seung-Hui Cho turned his gun on himself.

Jurors in Christiansburg, Virginia, determined that university officials should have been quicker to issue a campus warning after two students were killed by gunfire in a residence hall on the morning of 16 April 2007.

Soon after the university notified the campus that a shooting had occurred, the student gunman continued his more than two-hour rampage in a classroom building elsewhere on the campus.

Jurors awarded $4m each to the families of Pryde and Peterson.

Virginia law requires awards against the state be capped at $100,000 each and government lawyers had immediately requested that the amounts be reduced to the legal limit, said Virginia attorney general spokesman Brian Gottstein.

By law, juries were not told of the cap until after their decision, Gottstein said.

According to memorial pages on the Virginia Tech website, Pryde, of Middletown, New Jersey, had been studying biological systems engineering, while Peterson, of Chantilly, Virginia, had been majoring in international studies.

Virginia Tech expressed disappointment with the verdict, having argued that exhaustive investigations failed to produce any evidence that university officials were negligent.

University spokesman Mark Owczarski said Virginia Tech stood by its view that the administration and law enforcement "did their absolute best" with the information available at the time of the shootings.

The university would discuss the matter further with the state attorney general, review the case and explore all other available options, he said. Virginia Tech did not believe the evidence presented at trial about the initial residence hall murders proved there had been an increased danger to the campus that day. "The heinous crimes committed by Seung-Hui Cho were an unprecedented act of violence that no one could have foreseen," he said. "Virginia Tech has always and will continue to put the safety and well being of its students first."

The attorney general's office said the trial evidence established that three law enforcement agencies had unanimously deemed the mass shooting unforeseeable. "Only with hindsight can one conclude that Cho's unprecedented acts were foreseeable."

Last year, the US department of education ruled the school should pay a $55,000 fine for failing to issue a timely warning. Virginia Tech has appealed the fine.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/mar/15/virginia-tech-shooting-families-awarded

[Teh One Who Knocks]

The only people that win here are the lawyers :|

[FBD]

yup, and the bullshitty thing is, if guns werent banned on campus, the episode would have lasted all of ten minutes instead of two hours and thirtysomething dead.

[MrsM]

The only people that win here are the lawyers :|

I agree

[Muddy]

yup, and the bullshitty thing is, if guns werent banned on campus, the episode would have lasted all of ten minutes instead of two hours and thirtysomething dead.

Exactly.. Every student should have an AR-15 in class...

[RBP]

Exactly.. Every student should have an AR-15 in class...

:-s

[Muddy]

And some hand grenades...

[RBP]

Bet their security guards are armed now.

[Acid Trip]

I think if you are over 21 and have a concealed handgun permit they should let you carry it on school grounds.

[Teh One Who Knocks]

I think if you are over 21 and have a concealed handgun permit they should let you carry it on school grounds.

You can in Colorado...case was just recently in front of the Colorado Supreme Court and they ruled in favor of gun owners

[Acid Trip]

You can in Colorado...case was just recently in front of the Colorado Supreme Court and they ruled in favor of gun owners

Colorado is sounding more and more appealing. Nice cities, the best skiing, good weed and laws that favor gun owners.

[Teh One Who Knocks]

Colorado is sounding more and more appealing. Nice cities, the best skiing, good weed and laws that favor gun owners.

Gun laws are favorable as long as you don't live in either the City and County of Denver or the People's Republic of Boulder

[Acid Trip]

Gun laws are favorable as long as you don't live in either the City and County of Denver or the People's Republic of Boulder

:rofl:

[Teh One Who Knocks]

In Colorado we refer to Boulder as 25 square miles surrounded by reality :lol:

[MrsM]

yup, and the bullshitty thing is, if guns werent banned on campus, the episode would have lasted all of ten minutes instead of two hours and thirtysomething dead.

I know I'm going to be slammed for saying this - but I disagree. No one knew what was happening - all they knew that was someone was shooting. So the true bad guy is shooting and joe hero pulls his gun and shoots at the bad guy. Perhaps he misses and hits an bystander. Another student sees Joe Hero shooting and starts shooting at him. How does Joe Hero know that the second student is just mistaken or perhaps he's another bad guy and there were 2 shooters. And then add a few more people into it and it becomes more and more confusing.

The cops show up and probably only have the info that there is a shooter in the building. They show up and there are 4 or 5 students with guns shooting at each other... who is the bad guy and who are the hero's?

Could it have saved lives - possibly - but it could have been worse. Also - on a campus of thousands - how many people would be licensed to carry. and how many of those would play the hero and put their lives at risk?

Sure I agree that if the bad guy walks into a class and starts shooting that if someone fired back that he would probably leave ... but he would probably head to another class and shoot there.

It's a tragedy what happened and to blame the University like that doesn't help anyone other than as Lance noted the lawyers.

[Joebob034]

I know I'm going to be slammed for saying this - but I disagree. No one knew what was happening - all they knew that was someone was shooting. So the true bad guy is shooting and joe hero pulls his gun and shoots at the bad guy. Perhaps he misses and hits an bystander. Another student sees Joe Hero shooting and starts shooting at him. How does Joe Hero know that the second student is just mistaken or perhaps he's another bad guy and there were 2 shooters. And then add a few more people into it and it becomes more and more confusing.

The cops show up and probably only have the info that there is a shooter in the building. They show up and there are 4 or 5 students with guns shooting at each other... who is the bad guy and who are the hero's?

Could it have saved lives - possibly - but it could have been worse. Also - on a campus of thousands - how many people would be licensed to carry. and how many of those would play the hero and put their lives at risk?

Sure I agree that if the bad guy walks into a class and starts shooting that if someone fired back that he would probably leave ... but he would probably head to another class and shoot there.

It's a tragedy what happened and to blame the University like that doesn't help anyone other than as Lance noted the lawyers.

I tend to agree. I've seen too many douche bags at all the college parties and what not I've been to. If they were allowed to carry guns you'd have shooting deaths over beer pong.

[FBD]

I know I'm going to be slammed for saying this - but I disagree. No one knew what was happening - all they knew that was someone was shooting. So the true bad guy is shooting and joe hero pulls his gun and shoots at the bad guy. Perhaps he misses and hits an bystander. Another student sees Joe Hero shooting and starts shooting at him. How does Joe Hero know that the second student is just mistaken or perhaps he's another bad guy and there were 2 shooters. And then add a few more people into it and it becomes more and more confusing.

The cops show up and probably only have the info that there is a shooter in the building. They show up and there are 4 or 5 students with guns shooting at each other... who is the bad guy and who are the hero's?

Could it have saved lives - possibly - but it could have been worse. Also - on a campus of thousands - how many people would be licensed to carry. and how many of those would play the hero and put their lives at risk?

Sure I agree that if the bad guy walks into a class and starts shooting that if someone fired back that he would probably leave ... but he would probably head to another class and shoot there.

It's a tragedy what happened and to blame the University like that doesn't help anyone other than as Lance noted the lawyers.
I honestly think its sad that a lot of people dont even know what responsible gun ownership is.

What is *the* single thing that stops a massacre like this?

:wavey: another gun shows up that is on the side of the innocents and not the perp.

Talk all you want about these mythical situations where a gun owner just decides he can wave his pistol around at a party and shoot into the ceiling, but brake it down to harsh reality and the only thing that stops a madman with a gun is a sane man with a gun.

[Acid Trip]

I honestly think its sad that a lot of people dont even know what responsible gun ownership is.

What is *the* single thing that stops a massacre like this?

:wavey: another gun shows up that is on the side of the innocents and not the perp.

Talk all you want about these mythical situations where a gun owner just decides he can wave his pistol around at a party and shoot into the ceiling, but brake it down to harsh reality and the only thing that stops a madman with a gun is a sane man with a gun.

:+1:

Besides, how many 21+ year old college students can pass an FBI background check (no felonies or violent crimes), will submit to 8 hours classroom training with a Sheriff, and then go qualify on a range only to take their weapon to parties and wave it around like a fool?

The classroom stuff is by far the most important. A law enforcement officer tells you exactly when you can pull your weapon, how to respond to police if your weapon is drawn (or holstered), and lots of other scenarios.

[PorkChopSandwiches]

:facepalm: what ridiculousness

[deebakes]

100K < 4000000

:shrug:

[Hal-9000]

I know I'm going to be slammed for saying this - but I disagree. No one knew what was happening - all they knew that was someone was shooting. So the true bad guy is shooting and joe hero pulls his gun and shoots at the bad guy. Perhaps he misses and hits an bystander. Another student sees Joe Hero shooting and starts shooting at him. How does Joe Hero know that the second student is just mistaken or perhaps he's another bad guy and there were 2 shooters. And then add a few more people into it and it becomes more and more confusing.

The cops show up and probably only have the info that there is a shooter in the building. They show up and there are 4 or 5 students with guns shooting at each other... who is the bad guy and who are the hero's?

Could it have saved lives - possibly - but it could have been worse. Also - on a campus of thousands - how many people would be licensed to carry. and how many of those would play the hero and put their lives at risk?

Sure I agree that if the bad guy walks into a class and starts shooting that if someone fired back that he would probably leave ... but he would probably head to another class and shoot there.

It's a tragedy what happened and to blame the University like that doesn't help anyone other than as Lance noted the lawyers.

You bring up some very solid points.Multiple people holding guns would lead to chaos in the very least, when the police and swat team go in.

[Arkady Renko]

The only people that win here are the lawyers :|

:slap::hater::beatdown:


I know I'm going to be slammed for saying this - but I disagree. No one knew what was happening - all they knew that was someone was shooting. So the true bad guy is shooting and joe hero pulls his gun and shoots at the bad guy. Perhaps he misses and hits an bystander. Another student sees Joe Hero shooting and starts shooting at him. How does Joe Hero know that the second student is just mistaken or perhaps he's another bad guy and there were 2 shooters. And then add a few more people into it and it becomes more and more confusing.

The cops show up and probably only have the info that there is a shooter in the building. They show up and there are 4 or 5 students with guns shooting at each other... who is the bad guy and who are the hero's?

Could it have saved lives - possibly - but it could have been worse. Also - on a campus of thousands - how many people would be licensed to carry. and how many of those would play the hero and put their lives at risk?

Sure I agree that if the bad guy walks into a class and starts shooting that if someone fired back that he would probably leave ... but he would probably head to another class and shoot there.

It's a tragedy what happened and to blame the University like that doesn't help anyone other than as Lance noted the lawyers.

that's exactly my take on things like that. Places like schools and university campuses 8is that the proper plural of campus?) should be free of any weapons whatsoever. If the situation requires, they should have armed guards but that's as much as is reasonable. Otherwise you'll end up with some sort of an arms race.