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View Full Version : Concerned about a euro exit, Greeks pull funds from banks



Teh One Who Knocks
05-16-2012, 12:11 PM
By Harry Papachristou | Reuters


ATHENS (Reuters) - Greece's president spoke of "fear that could develop into panic" at the country's banks in the weeks before fresh elections that could precipitate Athens exit from the euro zone.

Greeks are withdrawing euros afraid of the prospect of rapid devaluation if the country leaves the single currency, minutes of President Karolos Papoulias's meetings with political leaders showed. Greece's warring parties have refused to form a viable coalition, triggering new elections that could strengthen the hand of opponents of Greece's EU bailout.

Central bank head George Provopoulos said savers withdrew at least 700 million euros ($894 million) on Monday, the president told party chiefs. "Mr Provopoulos told me there was no panic, but there was great fear that could develop into a panic," the minutes quoted the president as saying.

"Withdrawals and outflows by 4:00 pm when I called him exceeded 600 million euros and reached 700 million euros," he said. "He expects total outflows of about 800 million euros, including conversions in German Bunds and other such things."

The specter of Greece quitting the single currency sent the euro and European shares to a fresh four-month low on Wednesday and raised the yields on Spanish and Italian debt, reflecting the risk that other European countries will be hurt.

Sources at two Greek banks told Reuters that withdrawals on Tuesday had taken place at about the same rate as Monday and the president's numbers appeared to be broadly accurate.

Greeks have been withdrawing funds from banks for years, and there has so far been no sign of queues at banks in Athens, but withdrawals at such a pace in two days are unusual.

A senior bank executive said there had been withdrawals but there was no sign of a panic, such as in April 2010 when eight billion were withdrawn just before Greece obtained its first bailout.

According to central bank figures, Greek businesses and households had 165 billion euros on deposit at the end of March, having withdrawn 72 billion euros since January 2010. Experts say some of that was due to capital flight and some due to Greeks eating into their savings because of the crisis.

Opinion polls show that voters enraged over five years of recession, record unemployment and steep wage cuts are likely to elect a parliament as fragmented as the one they chose on May 6. But the vote, probably in mid-June, may well tip the balance of power toward leftist parties opposed to the bailout conditions.

Policymakers from European Union states and at the European Central Bank have warned that they would stop sending Athens the cash it needs to stay afloat if a new government tears up the bailout.

Many Greek voters still hope they can stay in the euro without abiding by the conditions imposed to obtain the bailouts, as promised by Alexis Tsipras, the charismatic 37-year-old leader of the surging leftist SYRIZA party.

"There is a bit of schizophrenia in our society right now. People want to stay in Europe - have the cake - but they also want to eat it - by attacking the creditors," said Theodore Couloumbis at Athens-based think-tank ELIAMEP.

"Much depends on whether the Greek people in this repeat election are going to vote with anger and passion or if they will cool off, reflect and see in effect what the real choices are. The choice is between bad and worse."

Party leaders will meet Papoulias at 1 p.m. (1000 GMT) to put together a caretaker government. It was not clear who would be part of that emergency cabinet, whose main task would be to organize the repeat election - the third in Greece in as many years.

"DOESN'T LOOK GOOD"

Many in Greece pin their hopes on newly elected French President Francois Hollande, who campaigned on a pro-growth platform. Socialist Hollande offered some hope for more flexibility towards Greece on Tuesday, saying after his first meeting with German Chancellor Angela Merkel:

"I hope that we can say to the Greeks that Europe is ready to add measures to help growth and support economic activity so that there is a return to growth in Greece."

But despite encouraging comments from the conservative German leader about wanting to see growth, differences remain over how far austerity programs might be relaxed.

IMF chief Christine Lagarde had earlier in the day joined a string of EU policymakers who have over the past days lifted the taboo of openly discussing the prospect of an exit of Greece from the euro zone. She said it was important to be prepared for that possibility and warned that an exit would be "quite messy".

European shares fell to their lowest closing level since the start of 2012 after attempts to form a government collapsed. Traders said markets could slump further in the coming days, with fears of a contagion to other crisis-hit EU states including Spain and Italy sending the euro below $1.27.

Patience is wearing thin among EU policymakers exasperated that a country which accounts for barely two percent of the euro zone's economy should drag the bloc into deep crisis yet again.

"The 16 other governments in the euro zone really are at the end of their patience with Greece. There isn't room or any willingness to move," said one official involved in talks over Greece at the European Commission. "The decisions are really in Athens's hands. But it doesn't look good." ($1 = 0.7828 euros)

redred
05-16-2012, 12:18 PM
and what are they going to do with all the euros they've withdrawn ? my in-laws are heading over there for a holiday very soon and have been told to take a stock of £'s with them and make sure they don't bring any greek euro's back with them

Acid Trip
05-16-2012, 01:07 PM
and what are they going to do with all the euros they've withdrawn ? my in-laws are heading over there for a holiday very soon and have been told to take a stock of £'s with them and make sure they don't bring any greek euro's back with them

Greek Euro? Please explain because last time I checked the euro was a single currency.

redred
05-16-2012, 01:23 PM
http://i.imgur.com/rU05v.jpg

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/article-2008065/Best-try-swap-Greek-euros-German-notes.html

from what i can tell, yes a euro is a euro ,but still linked to a countries bank so if the greeks were to drop the currency and go back to the drachma then the euros issued to that country could become worthless ,but as i'm not from a country that uses the euro maybe jez or Arkady Renko maybe able to tell me if i'm right or wrong

Acid Trip
05-16-2012, 01:40 PM
I know the coins are different but the paper money is all the same isn't it? I can't imagine people would bring back a ton of coins.

Arkady Renko
05-16-2012, 01:41 PM
The end is near, no doubt about it. Unlike most media pundits, I resent the term "tragedy" in the context because greek tragedies imply an element of inevitable fate or malicious divine intervention, while this mess is 100% man made. If anything it's a farce.


and what are they going to do with all the euros they've withdrawn ? my in-laws are heading over there for a holiday very soon and have been told to take a stock of £'s with them and make sure they don't bring any greek euro's back with them

allegedly most of that money will end up in the bank accounts many greeks hold in...*drumroll* Germany and Austria. They appreciate the stability over here and assume that even if the euro zone were to fall apart, their money would simply be converted to a porspective new hard currency. Ironic, isn't it?

As for the advice to your in-laws, I think it's bunkum. They're only gonna get ripped off when they exchange their money for euros and they can still spend their leftover cash in any other member state of the monetary union. Greek euro coins would continue to be legal tender and the bills can't be distinguished anyway as they'tre the same for all members.

redred
05-16-2012, 01:43 PM
paper money also has a country mark on it

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/news/article-1693427/How-to-find-out-where-a-euro-note-is-from.html

Muddy
05-16-2012, 01:51 PM
What a mess..

Acid Trip
05-16-2012, 02:03 PM
What a mess..

Just wait. Greece won't be the only country exiting the Euro.

Acid Trip
05-16-2012, 02:06 PM
paper money also has a country mark on it

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/news/article-1693427/How-to-find-out-where-a-euro-note-is-from.html

That makes me want to get some Greek Euros because it'll be a piece of history. According to the ECB website the Greek annotated Euro will not lose any value on exit.

Arkady Renko
05-16-2012, 02:33 PM
Just wait. Greece won't be the only country exiting the Euro.

probably not. I fail to imagine how Portugal and Italy will manage to implement the necessary reforms as well as balance their budgets anytime soon. Their situation is much less dramatic than Greece's but it would take something close to a miracle for those two countries to avoid going down the same road in two or three years.

Teh One Who Knocks
05-16-2012, 02:40 PM
probably not. I fail to imagine how Portugal and Italy will manage to implement the necessary reforms as well as balance their budgets anytime soon. Their situation is much less dramatic than Greece's but it would take something close to a miracle for those two countries to avoid going down the same road in two or three years.

What's gonna happen in France? That new president sounds like he wants to revert completely back to the socialist nanny state ways and scrap all the austerity measures that were put in place. That can't be a good thing.

Muddy
05-16-2012, 02:43 PM
probably not. I fail to imagine how Portugal and Italy will manage to implement the necessary reforms as well as balance their budgets anytime soon. Their situation is much less dramatic than Greece's but it would take something close to a miracle for those two countries to avoid going down the same road in two or three years.

I know this is politically incorrect, but really it's a truthfull observation..

All 3 of these countries are dark skinned people..

Acid Trip
05-16-2012, 03:01 PM
I know this is politically incorrect, but really it's a truthfull observation..

All 3 of these countries are dark skinned people..

:lolwut:

Arkady Renko
05-16-2012, 03:04 PM
What's gonna happen in France? That new president sounds like he wants to revert completely back to the socialist nanny state ways and scrap all the austerity measures that were put in place. That can't be a good thing.

I'm a little worried about France, too, but I doubt they'll be in danger of going bankrupt anytime soon. Francois Hollande made the mistake of promising people a rose garden when all they're gonna get is a potato field. If his government were actually to start and repeal the social and fiscal reforms implemented under Sarkozy, I'm sure France's credit rating would take a nosedive. So they'll try and find a scapegoat and then tell the public, thatr, unfortunately and against all probability, they'll have to nix their campaign promises. I suppose they'll blame Sarkozy for draining France's public coffers and Angela Merkel for refusing to renegotiate the european fiscal responsibility pact. A convenient way to save face and sell the inevitable cutbacks and reforms.


I know this is politically incorrect, but really it's a truthfull observation..

All 3 of these countries are dark skinned people..

Not really, they're more the mediterranean type down there. But in my opinion their current woes derive from cultural pecularities (Greece and Italy) or historical factors (Portugal and, to a much lesser extent, Spain).

In Greece and also in large parts of Italy, people have no interest whatsoever in a functional state, instead they see the state as some kind of occupation force that you need to cheat wherever you can and therefore tax evasion as well as welfare fraud are absolutely commonpace. Politicians seem to think along the same lines. All they care about is lining their own pockets and seeing to it that their local constituents are appeased with subsidies and jobs in the public sector. Seems to me those countries are profoundly dysfunctional and they won't learn anything unless they hit rock bottom.

Portugal on the other hand, was held in the vice of a ruthless fascist military junta who blew the national wealth on a series of bloody and futile colonial wars. They only returned to democracy in 1975 and were western europe's poorest country since then. When my parents took me there for a vacation in the early eighties, a lot of folks went barefoot in their spare time because they could only afford one good pair of shoes that needed saving for work or school. once Portugal joined the EU and was able to tap Brussel's cornucopia of subsidies, that set in motion an incredible boom where they tried to compensate for everything they missed out on between the end of WW2 and the return to democracy. Now that bubble burst and they'll have to face the enormous debt load they amassed in the last few years without any major potential for economic growth. Actually, I believe that Portugal could be saved with the kind of help Greece is getting right now, because they "only" have a debt problem while the country is mostly viable, but by the time Greece's wheels come off, none of the wealthier countries of europe will be dispose to spend a cent of trying to save another mediterranean country.

FBD
05-16-2012, 04:38 PM
and what are they going to do with all the euros they've withdrawn ? my in-laws are heading over there for a holiday very soon and have been told to take a stock of £'s with them and make sure they don't bring any greek euro's back with them

they should be taking us dollars, over there they will be a commodity - trade 'em for euros or shit even, depending on how when and what the financial situation looks like. not that the dollar is great, but you're fo sho not going to be taking your gold coins with you, you hoard those fuckers like...they're...

..gold :lol:

its all a bit fiat bubble right now anyway, its just which bubble are you talking about