Nearly Half of Americans Believe in Creationism

[Teh One Who Knocks]

By Saul Relative | Yahoo! Contributor Network


http://i.imgur.com/Le5Vb.jpg

Sometimes religious faith can be a stronger force within an individual mind than a preponderance of scientific theory and fact. And just because some complain that there is a war on religion does not mean the secularist contingent is winning. According to a recent poll, nearly half of Americans believe in the creationist view of how humans and the cosmos came to be, with another 37 percent believing in divinely guided evolution. The poll also indicated that seven out of ten of those who attended religious services regularly were more likely to hold creationist views.

In the latest Gallup poll, conducted for USA Today, the findings revealed that little has changed over the past 30 years with regard to the percentages of Americans that believe in creationism as opposed to those who do not. If anything, the findings indicate that those who believe that God created the Earth and humans in their present form about 10,000 years ago (or less) constitute 2 percent more of the population than in 1982 (46 percent to 44 percent), when the questions were first asked. The number is also up 6 percent from a similar 2011 poll and one point above the 30-year average.

The poll also shows that those who believe God had nothing to do with the creation process and the evolution of the human species have also increased from 1982 (15 percent as opposed to 9 percent). However, the number is down a point from last year's survey but still 3 percentage points higher than the 30-year average.

A third position addresses those that intermingle both beliefs, that humans are evolving but doing so with divine guidance. Nearly four of ten Americans (38 percent) held those beliefs in 1982 and last year but decreased to 32 percent in the 2012 survey. The "theistic evolution" view returns a 37 percent 30-year average.

In all, 78 percent of Americans believe that God has at least some measure of control over worldly affairs.

The poll indicated that those who attended religious services on a weekly basis were more likely to hold with creationist beliefs; that is, the more religious, the more likely respondents were to be creationists. Some 67 percent of regular service-goers are creationists. When added to the "theistic evolution" contingent, those that hold some belief in God make of 92 percent of those that attend weekly services. Interestingly, 3 percent of those that attend weekly are nonbelievers.

The poll also revealed that respondents with post-graduate degrees were more likely to believe the theistic evolution view (42 percent) or that there was no divine guidance in the evolutionary process (29 percent). And Democrats were less likely to be creationists (41 percent to 58 percent) and tied with Independents as more likely to believe in evolution without the interference of a deity (19 percent to 5 percent).

Gallup concludes from the survey that the numbers hold well to the historic averages (with a margin of error of +/-4 percent), stating "there is no evidence in this trend of a substantial movement toward a secular viewpoint on human origins," which is a common cry among those with a religious bent.

Still, the survey does not indicate the increase in raw numbers commensurate with the population increase over the past thirty years. Even if one were to simply go by the 30-year averages, the increase in the creationist population is enormous.

In 1982, when the population of the United States was nearly 232 million, 45 percent of the overall population would measure out to just over 101 million people holding creationist views. In comparison, the 37 percent holding the theistic evolution belief would have been comprised of nearly 89 million Americans. As for the evolutionists, there would have been nearly 28 million (12 percent).

By 2012, with the population of the United States having ballooned to 313 million, the same percentages would generate: almost 141 million creationists, nearly 116 million theistic evolutionists, and just over 37.5 million evolutionists.

The numbers being averages, they don't add up to 100 percent, so there are millions that fall outside the survey. And yet, it is clear that Americans believing evolution is bunk and God created the Earth and humans within the last 10,000 years (creationism) or that God is the driving force behind evolution (theistic evolution) far outnumber those who hold with secular or non-belief systems. So if there is a war on religion, it has been fairly unsuccessful in the last thirty years in winning over the hearts and minds of believers. In fact, in terms of numerical strength and despite complaints to the contrary, the creationists appear to be winning.

[Arkady Renko]

explains a thing or two

[Loser]

Fkin buddy christ :lol:

[lost in melb.]

I have nothing against "Creationism", : the concept of a higher power with some influence over evolution and our lives. However, the belief that the earth was created by God less than 10,000 years ago - that's just plain dumb.

[Muddy]

I believe in love.

[Jezter]

http://i.imgur.com/vxKaI.jpg

[MrsM]

http://i.imgur.com/vxKaI.jpg

:lol:

[Acid Trip]

I believe that modern man was created about 10,000 years ago. We have the skull evidence to prove that.

[Muddy]

I believe that modern man was created about 10,000 years ago. We have the skull evidence to prove that.

Created? Like by divine intervention?

[Leefro]

I have watched That HAL film

[RBP]

I don't know what to believe. :|

[PorkChopSandwiches]

http://i.imgur.com/vxKaI.jpg

Brilliant

[Jezter]

http://www.pornoimg.com/uploads/2012/06/05/201712_700b_1338910883.jpg (http://www.pornoimg.com/show.php?img_id=124769)

[Acid Trip]

Created? Like by divine intervention?

Divine intervention, alien intervention, or some other intelligent design took place. We evolved above and beyond every other species on the planet almost over night.

Evolution has no explanation as to why humans evolved at break neck speed starting 10,000 years ago and all other animals did not.

[Godfather]

Divine intervention, alien intervention, or some other intelligent design took place. We evolved above and beyond every other species on the planet almost over night.

Evolution has no explanation as to why humans evolved at break neck speed starting 10,000 years ago and all other animals did not.

The leading evidence places modern humans at 200,000 old in terms of the emergence of the sub-species homo-sapiens. 10,000 is way too recent. Even behavioral modernity is theorized only as young as 50,000 years old.

[RBP]

you said homo :giggle:

[Godfather]

I did :lol: Who says we've evolved at all eh :P

[Acid Trip]

The leading evidence places modern humans at 200,000 old in terms of the emergence of the sub-species homo-sapiens. 10,000 is way too recent. Even behavioral modernity is theorized only as young as 50,000 years old.

I use 10,000 years ago because that was the end of the last Ice Age. It was from then on we started building the massive structures that we can still see today.

Before the last Ice Age there are no discernible human structures that I equate to modern man.

[FBD]

I have nothing against "Creationism", : the concept of a higher power with some influence over evolution and our lives. However, the belief that the earth was created by God less than 10,000 years ago - that's just plain dumb.

luminous beings are we, not this crude matter

http://thethesiswhisperer.files.wordpress.com/2010/11/yoda1.jpg

chaos has simple matrices of order :mrgreen:

I've heard humans are a combination of 37 or so different species. Whether that's accurate is certainly debatable - but that's sort of aside from the point that we're not our bodies any more than we are the house we live in.

[Hal-9000]

My theory is this:

Cave paintings, ancient writings both illustrate and talk about 'divine gods' from the heavens. Often they have halo-like or even helmeted heads in the drawings.What if there was a man named Jesus who walked the Earth 2100 years ago and had 'divine, godlike powers' such as healing by touch and walking on water?

You have to think, there was absolutely NOTHING to be gained from trying to promote a new god...the ONE God, during Roman times. People then were believing in multiple gods and any contrary thinking was rewarded with stonings or crucifixion.

So what was the agenda of the Jesus dude? He certainly wouldn't have gained monetarily...or have the adulation of the entire population, trying to promote this new one God theory...so why? What was the endgame for Jesus and Christianity during that time in history?

God, Jesus, the Holy Ghost.....were all aliens and visited us with only one purpose in mind; to inform us to be better to each other and not ruin the world we live in. To not destroy humanity through our own actions.

Christianity has never been a threat and people who perceive it that way are idiots (if you don't do THIS, you will burn in hell) The message is simple - We are all part of one living thing and you should endevour to be better to others, as well as yourself. Or in other words - Don't fuck with The Force :)

[Hal-9000]

:lol: unbelievable...my last line above and FBD's picture

[FBD]

:lol: hal knows the dilly

[Hal-9000]

I've felt this presence before..

[deebakes]

:facepalm:

[Southern Belle]

It's sad that people who don't believe have to imply that people who do believe are dumb or ignorant.
I believe and I don't imply that you non believers are dumb or ignorant. I'll pray for all of you.

[DemonGeminiX]

http://www.ucmp.berkeley.edu/exhibits/index.php

[Godfather]

I would never claim to know if there is or isn't a God, or laugh at someone for being theistic. That's wrong, end of discussion.

But the Biblical young Earth just can't grab me, it's a huge problem I had with being raised Catholic. Look at Geology and the Bible. It's something you can see with little difficulty, much more easily than the age of the Universe or evolution. We know how long it takes for the wind and the rain to wear down a mountain, how long it takes glacial melts to turn a rapid river into winding billabongs, how slowly the continents drift, and the hot crust takes to form new islands in Hawaii or Iceland. This doesn't involve carbon dating... you can see Everest grow 2 inches a year, or Niagra Falls erode at an ever greater rate. These are processes very obviously carved through millions of years

Do people sleep at night with these questions unanswered... or unasked. I get 'blind faith, but how can you not care that the Grand Canyon is 16 million years old, or that the Urals are where they are, and have been there 250 million years... all when Genesis basically tells us the entire planet is 6-10,000 years old?

[Southern Belle]

And where in Genesis does it say that?

[Teh One Who Knocks]

And where in Genesis does it say that?

Where did a young-earth worldview come from?

Simply put, it came from the Bible. Of course, the Bible doesn’t say explicitly anywhere, “the earth is 6,000 years old.” Good thing it doesn’t; otherwise it would be out of date the following year. But we wouldn’t expect an all-knowing God to make that kind of a mistake.

God gave us something better. In essence, He gave us a “birth certificate.” For example, using my personal birth certificate, I can calculate how old I am at any point. It is similar with the earth. Genesis 1 says that the earth was created on the first day of creation (Genesis 1:1–5). From there, we can begin calculations of the age of the earth.

Let’s do a rough calculation to show how this works. The age of the earth can be estimated by taking the first 5 days of creation (from earth’s creation to Adam), then following the genealogies from Adam to Abraham in Genesis 5 and 11, then adding in the time from Abraham to today.

Adam was created on Day 6, so there were 5 days before him. If we add up the dates from Adam to Abraham, we get about 2,000 years, using the Masoretic Hebrew text of Genesis 5 and 11.3 Whether Christian or secular, most scholars would agree that Abraham lived about 2,000 B.C. (4,000 years ago).

So a simple calculation is:

5 days
+ ~2000 years
+ ~4000 years
______________
~6000 years

At this point, the first 5 days are negligible. Quite a few people have done this calculation using the Masoretic text (which is what most English translations are based on) and, with careful attention to the biblical details, have arrived at the same time-frame of about 6,000 years, or about 4,000 B.C. Two of the most popular, and perhaps the best in my opinion, are a recent work by Dr. Floyd Jones and a much earlier book by Archbishop James Ussher (1581–1656):

http://i.imgur.com/rAKoH.png

Often, there is a misconception that Ussher and Jones were the only ones to do a chronology and arrive a date of about 6,000 years. However this is not the case at all. Jones gives a listing of several chronologists who have undertaken the task of calculating the age of the earth based on the Bible and their calculations range from 5501 to 3836 B.C.

[Jezter]

I was just about to post the same stuff, Lance. You beat me.

[Southern Belle]

So where did everything come from? Even before 6,000 years ago?

[Jezter]

So where did everything come from? Even before 6,000 years ago?

The Earth is 4,5Billion years old. And what made planets and solar systems and galaxies was The Big Bang. Not the TV-show. :lol: So...it has been around a long time. During that time, our climate has changed to be habitable to animals.

[Southern Belle]

I don't have a problem with "the big bang" but I believe it was an act of God.

[Muddy]

So where did everything come from? Even before 6,000 years ago?


Just because we don't have all the answers doesn't mean we should just say 'Oh it has to be god because It's too big for me to understand'... at this point.

[Acid Trip]

Just because we don't have all the answers doesn't mean we should just say 'Oh it has to be god because It's too big for me to understand'... at this point.

And just because we have a theory to understand it (ie The Big Bang theory) doesn't mean it's correct.

[Muddy]

And just because we have a theory to understand it (ie The Big Bang theory) doesn't mean it's correct.

Agreed..

[Jezter]

And just because we have a theory to understand it (ie The Big Bang theory) doesn't mean it's correct.
No, but science gets a helluva lot closer with explaining than Bible...but everyone is entitled to believe in what they want.

[Acid Trip]

No, but science gets a helluva lot closer with explaining than Bible...

You mean the subject based almost completely on theories?

Big Bang theory, theory of relativity, string theory, theory of gravity, etc. We have lots of theories and very few concrete answers.

[Teh One Who Knocks]

You mean the subject based almost completely on theories?

Big Bang theory, theory of relativity, string theory, theory of gravity, etc. We have lots of theories and very few concrete answers.

And the only 'concrete answers' the bible gives is if you go on blind faith, so there you go.

[Acid Trip]

And the only 'concrete answers' the bible gives is if you go on blind faith, so there you go.

Why is why no one is right. Modern man is just as clueless to our existence as the people who wrote the Bible.

[Jezter]

And the only 'concrete answers' the bible gives is if you go on blind faith, so there you go.
:+1:

Why is why no one is right. Modern man is just as clueless to our existence as the people who wrote the Bible.

Yeah, but atleast science is trying to actively understand it better...


http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3192/2630372569_75089e7c91_o.jpg

[Acid Trip]

:+1:


Yeah, but atleast science is trying to actively understand it better...


http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3192/2630372569_75089e7c91_o.jpg

You can't rewrite the Bible like you do scientific theories.

If I could I would remove all the "science" from the Bible and just leave the stories and their morals. That's what people should be paying attention to.

[Jezter]

I see a new cult beginning soon... The ATNSBSG. The Acid Trip Non-Scientific Bible Study Group. :razz: :lol:

Kidding aside, I do not mean any disrespect as I do respect everyone's faith and beliefs. I do agree that there are a lot of good stories and morals in the Bible.

[Acid Trip]

I see a new cult beginning soon... The ATNSBSG. The Acid Trip Non-Scientific Bible Study Group. :razz: :lol:

Kidding aside, I do not mean any disrespect as I do respect everyone's faith and beliefs. I do agree that there are a lot of good stories and morals in the Bible.

We'll need a shorter acronym. :lol:

Science has been wrong since the beginning of mankind. The Earth is the center of the universe, no wait it's the sun, no wait that's wrong too. The Earth is flat...oh shit, it's round! Light is balls of energy...no...wait...light is now waves. There are 3 dimensions, no wait 10...damn...11 to 13.

What's the common denominator between Science and the Bible? Humans. Humans wrote the Bible based on the teachings of Jesus/God. Did they get his message 100% correct? Nobody knows. Then man invents Science to explain everything "God did" and we have had millions of theories on everything under the sun.

The Bible and Science are the same thing. They are man's interpretation of his environment and neither has been proven right or wrong.

[Muddy]

You can't rewrite the Bible like you do scientific theories.

If I could I would remove all the "science" from the Bible and just leave the stories and their morals. That's what people should be paying attention to.

Great point.

I go to a 'golf cart church' from time to time on Sundays and we take our kids because lifes lessons and morals and the storys are really great sometimes.. But also the woman who gives the sermon doesn't hammer the mysticism so much.. Her angle seems to be more around mans perseverance and finding strength..

[Jezter]

We'll need a shorter acronym. :lol:

Science has been wrong since the beginning of mankind. The Earth is the center of the universe, no wait it's the sun, no wait that's wrong too. The Earth is flat...oh shit, it's round! Light is balls of energy...no...wait...light is now waves. There are 3 dimensions, no wait 10...damn...11 to 13.

What's the common denominator between Science and the Bible? Humans. Humans wrote the Bible based on the teachings of Jesus/God. Did they get his message 100% correct? Nobody knows. Then man invents Science to explain everything "God did" and we have had millions of theories on everything under the sun.

The Bible and Science are the same thing. They are man's interpretation of his environment and neither has been proven right or wrong.
I respectfully disagree with pretty much everything you said there. I mean, you just described what it awesome about science; just like in the flowchart above. Being wrong is part of learning. But that is how it goes; one believes in science, one has blind faith, one has something inbetween and one has something totally different. That is why we need to be open minded, respectful and value the person as he/she is no matter what they believe in. Also, there are so many different religions out there with so many different gods. Some have the same god, yet they interpret it differently and see their god as better than the others. It is not so straightforward in that world either. Each to interpret the Bible or other Holy Books as seen fit to their teachings and such. So I guess in that sense you are right; no one knows what is exactly right. I still believe that science comes closers as without it, we'd not have all what we have today. Still some people believe that prayers will heal, science wont and Im pretty sure science leads in the lives saved tally...etc etc. This is one of those neverending topics aswell. So yeah...lets just all believe in what makes us happy and respect one another.
:grouphug:

[Acid Trip]

I respectfully disagree with pretty much everything you said there. But that is how it goes; one believes in science, one has blind faith, one has something inbetween and one has something totally different. That is why we need to be open minded, respectful and value the person as he/she is no matter what they believe in.

Which is exactly what Southern Belle did not get. You plastered "religious people are idiots" flow diagrams as if your belief system is somehow superior.

Not a very respectful and/or open minded thing to do is it.

[Jezter]

Which is exactly what Southern Belle did not get. You plastered "religious people are idiots" flow diagrams as if your belief system is somehow superior.

Not a very respectful and/or open minded thing to do is it.

I don't think any of them said "religious people are idiots"... Atleast I didn't see any of that there. Nor did I call anyone here idiot for believing in what they believe in. Never have and never will. Nor have I tried to prove science is right, religion is wrong. Just been saying what I think. What's wrong with that?

[Godfather]

We'll need a shorter acronym. :lol:

Science has been wrong since the beginning of mankind. The Earth is the center of the universe, no wait it's the sun, no wait that's wrong too. The Earth is flat...oh shit, it's round! Light is balls of energy...no...wait...light is now waves. There are 3 dimensions, no wait 10...damn...11 to 13.

What's the common denominator between Science and the Bible? Humans. Humans wrote the Bible based on the teachings of Jesus/God. Did they get his message 100% correct? Nobody knows. Then man invents Science to explain everything "God did" and we have had millions of theories on everything under the sun.

The Bible and Science are the same thing. They are man's interpretation of his environment and neither has been proven right or wrong.

And see for me, that's just not good enough. You can blow off science and say it's all dribble, but I just don't believe anyone who peels back the layers of the Earth and seeing the ice ages, great volcanic eruptions, seas drying and fossils decaying can really say it's wrong that these things have been there more than a few thousand years.

Say what you like about theoretical physics, but there are far more ways to see that time has been ticking a very long time. This isn't just based on an unresolved fear of disappearing over the side of the Earth. There are hundreds of unrelated reasons that this is true. http://www.interacademies.net/10878/13901.aspx

Again, this isn't a reason to say there isn't a God. But it's just one of the many problems I have with treating the Bible as scripture. Sure there are great lessons, but I'm not devoting my life to that particular version of God based on a book with important moral lessons, amongst tales of impossibility, fear-mongering and brutal contradictions (ie. Love one another... unless they're your slave, then you can beat them to within an inch of their life, and so long as you don't kill them, it's ok (that's Exodus))

[Godfather]

Some more problems with what God told us:

And God said, "Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters." And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament; and it was so. And God called the firmament Heaven. (Genesis 1:6-8)
The sky is not a solid structure.The word "firmament" implies a solid material, coming from the Latin word "firmamentum."
It also says that there is water above the skies (heaven), sky refers to Earth's atmosphere. There is no water above the sky, only within it.

"He shakes the earth from its place and makes its pillars tremble." (Job 9:6)
We now know that no, the Earth does NOT have pillars.

"He set the earth on its foundations; it can never be moved." (Psalm 104:5)
Nor does it have "foundations"

"He set the earth on its foundations; it can never be moved." (Psalm 104:5)
The Earth moves around the sun.

[PorkChopSandwiches]

Sure there are great lessons, but I'm not devoting my life to that particular version of God based on a book with important moral lessons, amongst tales of impossibility, fear-mongering and brutal contradictions

:+1:

[Muddy]

:+1:

Great contribution.. :lol:

[Acid Trip]

And see for me, that's just not good enough. You can blow off science and say it's all dribble, but I just don't believe anyone who peels back the layers of the Earth and seeing the ice ages, great volcanic eruptions, seas drying and fossils decaying can really say it's wrong that these things have been there more than a few thousand years.

Say what you like about theoretical physics, but there are far more ways to see that time has been ticking a very long time. This isn't just based on an unresolved fear of disappearing over the side of the Earth. There are hundreds of unrelated reasons that this is true. http://www.interacademies.net/10878/13901.aspx

Again, this isn't a reason to say there isn't a God. But it's just one of the many problems I have with treating the Bible as scripture. Sure there are great lessons, but I'm not devoting my life to praising something based on important moral lessons, amongst tales of impossibility.

I see the editors are out in force.

Not once did I blow off science or call it dribble. I did say that scientific theories are rewritten or dis proven on a massive scale. Scientists hundreds of years ago thought they had it all figured out and clearly they did not. Science still has a long way to go.

Quantum physics is a great example of scientific theories colliding to where it's impossible for it and other scientific theories to co-exist.

Why is it that the smallest elements in our universe (smaller than photos, neutrons, and electrons) act counter intuitively to the "larger" universe? How is it that two quantum entangled atoms can pass information faster than the speed of light (instantaneously) even if they are light years apart? How is it that quantum elements can be in two places at once?

Finding the answers to some of those questions will negate hundreds, if not thousands, of standing scientific theories. You can't say everything in the universe works one way when the smallest elements of our universe act totally differently. Back to the drawing board for a new explanation of everything.

My point remains the same. Science thinks it knows the answer to everything and so does the Bible/Koran/etc. Neither is right.

[Muddy]

Some more problems with what God told us:

And God said, "Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters." And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament; and it was so. And God called the firmament Heaven. (Genesis 1:6-8)
The sky is not a solid structure.The word "firmament" implies a solid material, coming from the Latin word "firmamentum."
It also says that there is water above the skies (heaven), sky refers to Earth's atmosphere. There is no water above the sky, only within it.

"He shakes the earth from its place and makes its pillars tremble." (Job 9:6)
We now know that no, the Earth does NOT have pillars.

"He set the earth on its foundations; it can never be moved." (Psalm 104:5)
Nor does it have "foundations"

"He set the earth on its foundations; it can never be moved." (Psalm 104:5)
The Earth moves around the sun.

Keep in mind here the bible was written by man and his interpretations..

[Hal-9000]

how about this....

man wrote the bible based on oral accounts ...and 'The Word' was collected from multiple sources over a span of almost 300 years.

You ever hear the one about telling a person something in a room and have them relay that message to 12 other people? By the time person 12 gets the message it's changed...



ALWAYS keep in mind that man wrote the bible, not some divine entity. So his perception of events and geology is sketchy at best.If the people 2100 years ago felt that the Earth was only 6000 years old...either their source or their reasoning was incorrect. Man can always interpret things the wrong way, even if the message was furnished by some divine method.

Galileo is a great example of how man constantly screws up....he was nearly killed for suggesting that the Earth revolved around the sun. And that's only one example from the world of science.

So if science can be wrong about any number of hypothesis regarding life, the bible could be too.

[Jezter]

Yeah, but I still say that science atleast admits when it is wrong and tries to correct old theories to prove something right. That is what science is all about. Bible or other Holy Books are just the same and only thing that changes is the people and how they interpret it. They wont change something that is old. Science evolves, changes and tries to provide the world with knowledge of how things work in great detail.
It is like...science can, and will be challenged always. That is what drives it forward. Dare to go and challenge Bible/Other holy book and there is hell to pay. That drives people to fight wars.

[MrsM]

A lot has already been said - so I'll throw in my 2 cents...

Religion to me was a way of controlling society many years ago. Life was a lot harder then and death was an everyday occurrence. People died from starvation, child birth, disease… even dental issues could be fatal.

So I don’t think people feared death the same way that modern society does. So, how do you control a society that doesn’t fear death? By telling them that you will be punished for all eternity in hell OR if you are good, then you get to spend eternity in a great place called heaven. It is also handy that the only way to prove that there is a heaven or hell is to die.

Sure the bible has good stories and lays out a good just way to live in a society where people need to interact. But to quote the bible as word for word and say that this is the absolute truth and nothing else can be true because God made it so and that can’t be changed… to me doesn’t make sense.

There are just too many holes in religion (in my opinion) to be believable. Which one is correct? There are too many and each says that the others are wrong and they are right. Well someone must be wrong, they all can’t be correct. I agree that some good things have come from religion – but across history a lot of bad things also occurred in the name of God.

The bible is a book of writings and stories, that was told and re-written generation to generation. Within your circle of friends – when someone tells you a story, is it always exactly the same when you hear it the same story from another friend? Now multiply that by 1000’s of years and sure some guy that was standing in a low canoe who looked like he was walking on water, was now walking on water.

I’m not trying to say that I’m correct, nor am I saying that those who believe are wrong… However to me I need proof before I can believe and science can offer me more answers than the bible. Sure theories have been proven wrong - but as Jez said, Science evolves and will admit that it was wrong. Religion - never.

I am more likely to believe that we are decedents of aliens that came here many years ago, or that “god” was an alien visitor, than to believe that God created the universe from nothing.

[Hal-9000]

Yeah, but I still say that science atleast admits when it is wrong and tries to correct old theories to prove something right. That is what science is all about. Bible or other Holy Books are just the same and only thing that changes is the people and how they interpret it. They wont change something that is old. Science evolves, changes and tries to provide the world with knowledge of how things work in great detail.
It is like...science can, and will be challenged always. That is what drives it forward. Dare to go and challenge Bible/Other holy book and there is hell to pay. That drives people to fight wars.

One day soon...you'll see that science and religion aren't so far apart. It's man's interpretation that causes wars and death, not religion itself. The ideal is pure and man fouls it...

[Muddy]

A lot has already been said - so I'll throw in my 2 cents...

Religion to me was a way of controlling society many years ago. Life was a lot harder then and death was an everyday occurrence. People died from starvation, child birth, disease… even dental issues could be fatal.

So I don’t think people feared death the same way that modern society does. So, how do you control a society that doesn’t fear death? By telling them that you will be punished for all eternity in hell OR if you are good, then you get to spend eternity in a great place called heaven. It is also handy that the only way to prove that there is a heaven or hell is to die.

Sure the bible has good stories and lays out a good just way to live in a society where people need to interact. But to quote the bible as word for word and say that this is the absolute truth and nothing else can be true because God made it so and that can’t be changed… to me doesn’t make sense.

There are just too many holes in religion (in my opinion) to be believable. Which one is correct? There are too many and each says that the others are wrong and they are right. Well someone must be wrong, they all can’t be correct. I agree that some good things have come from religion – but across history a lot of bad things also occurred in the name of God.

The bible is a book of writings and stories, that was told and re-written generation to generation. Within your circle of friends – when someone tells you a story, is it always exactly the same when you hear it the same story from another friend? Now multiply that by 1000’s of years and sure some guy that was standing in a low canoe who looked like he was walking on water, was now walking on water.

I’m not trying to say that I’m correct, nor am I saying that those who believe are wrong… However to me I need proof before I can believe and science can offer me more answers than the bible. Sure theories have been proven wrong - but as Jez said, Science evolves and will admit that it was wrong. Religion - never.

I am more likely to believe that we are decedents of aliens that came here many years ago, or that “god” was an alien visitor, than to believe that God created the universe from nothing.

Lets not forget the business aspect of the church.. if you don't have followers you don't have an income.

[PorkChopSandwiches]

One day soon...you'll see that science and religion aren't so far apart. It's man's interpretation that causes wars and death, not religion itself. The ideal is pure and man fouls it...

I havent disagreed with you so hard before :lol:

[MrsM]

Lets not forget the business aspect of the church.. if you don't have followers you don't have an income.

Good point!

[PorkChopSandwiches]

I love how Muddy will argue both sides :tup:

[Hal-9000]

I havent disagreed with you so hard before :lol:


Science eventually explains some aspects of mysticism and religion... and have you ever heard of Einstein? When you're bored, google him and religion. You may find his views on God enlightening. And he was one of the finest scientific minds of the 20th century.

[PorkChopSandwiches]

:hand:

[PorkChopSandwiches]

I have an easier time accepting Eastern Religon the Western.

[Muddy]

I love how Muddy will argue both sides :tup:

Im really not trying to argue.. As AT stated, I don't have any infinite wisdom on the subject.. Just trying to be honest is all.

[Hal-9000]

The message is pure, man isn't.

I've been through the bible a few times. Atheists always seem to go back to the same points when arguing - Earth isn't 6000 yrs old, eye for eye, there's contradictions etc.In the very least it was a book that was written 20 centuries ago, by man. Well of course there's contradictions, the bible is an assembled piece of work with many authors and sources :lol: Jesus just didn't sit down one day and say - Hey, I've got a great idea for a book and Imma writing it! :) Jesus was only the creative director who gave the outline of his vision to other people..

So if a passage says for example - "Believers will find a home in heaven, all others will perish." That doesn't mean I need to get a rifle and shoot all Atheists or people who follow a different faith. It's only man that says - The bible tells me to kill disbelievers.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that the bible has survived a long time in this world and that man perverts and twists the messages within.

[Jezter]

Same as believers always seem to go back to the same points and tell how something is just a metaphor or a matter of how it is interpreted. Just an observation. To me, it seems like an eternal stalemate and there is no point in saying your belief in religion is wrong as there is no point saying that my belief in science is wrong. Or that anyone elses belief in something else is wrong.

[Teh One Who Knocks]

You're all wrong :hand:


Scientology is the way :)

[Hal-9000]

Same as believers always seem to go back to the same points and tell how something is just a metaphor or a matter of how it is interpreted. Just an observation. To me, it seems like an eternal stalemate and there is no point in saying your belief in religion is wrong as there is no point saying that my belief in science is wrong. Or that anyone elses belief in something else is wrong.

Because they ARE metaphors and the interpretation can be wrong! :lol: 2000 year old text.....is this thing on ffs???


and I will never say that anyone's belief in science is wrong. My faith is called Christian Science btw............................................... ..........

[DemonGeminiX]

You're all wrong :hand:


Scientology is the way :)

:hand:

Scientology is crap, infidel.

All hail the Flying Spaghetti Monster!!!

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/6/6e/Touched_by_His_Noodly_Appendage.jpg/330px-Touched_by_His_Noodly_Appendage.jpg

May he touch you all with his noodly appendage!




I actually had some serious shit to post regarding the historical basis for events in the Bible and the style of writing the Bible was written in, but I don't want to throw my hat into this ring.

[Hal-9000]

If I wasn't at work I'd be throwing the same hat in...



Now I have to plan on killing the infidels here instead...no rest for the wicked I guess :|

[RBP]

:hand:

Scientology is crap, infidel.

All hail the Flying Spaghetti Monster!!!

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/6/6e/Touched_by_His_Noodly_Appendage.jpg/330px-Touched_by_His_Noodly_Appendage.jpg

May he touch you all with his noodly appendage!




I actually had some serious shit to post regarding the historical basis for events in the Bible and the style of writing the Bible was written in, but I don't want to throw my hat into this ring.


http://i.imgur.com/AxIoM.jpg

[Jezter]

If I wasn't at work I'd be throwing the same hat in...



Now I have to plan on killing the infidels here instead...no rest for the wicked I guess :|

There's no need to throw any hats in any rings. It is educating to hear others views and ideas.

[Acid Trip]

Looks like Hal and I are on the same page here. Religion and science are the same thing. Two means to the same end.

Let that sink in. Two means to the same end. One is a collection of stories that attempt to explain everything, one is a collection of theories that attempt to explain everything. One was written by many authors thousands of years ago and does not change. One will never be finished.

What distinguishes the two is that the Bible is primarily focused on your moral compass, not the compass that shows where we sit on the galactic map.

[Hal-9000]

Looks like Hal and I are on the same page here. Religion and science are the same thing. Two means to the same end.

Let that sink in. Two means to the same end. One is a collection of stories that attempt to explain everything, one is a collection of theories that attempt to explain everything. One was written by many authors thousands of years ago and does not change. One will never be finished.

What distinguishes the two is that the Bible is primarily focused on your moral compass, not the compass that shows where we sit on the galactic map.


That....is a damn fine piece of writing

[MrsM]

I heard this a while back

"religion starts wars - science ends them"

[Hal-9000]

let's talk about something else...


The urinal mints in my work bathroom. Typically I don't mind them but lately we've got these huge urinal mints with a little bathmat in there and I end up getting pee splashed all over my pants.

I hate that :x

[PorkChopSandwiches]

I hate when you walk in the bathroom and can taste the mint of the cake :puke:

[Hal-9000]

I hate it when nosy coworkers catch me jerking off into the sink :x

[Jezter]

I play urinal-hockey with the disks. The damn mat gets in the way tho and doesn't function so well as a goal net as it does as a pee-splasher like Hal mentioned.

Also, awesome derailment of a thread! :lol: Oldskool stuff!

[Hal-9000]

I play urinal-hockey with the disks. The damn mat gets in the way tho and doesn't function so well as a goal net as it does as a pee-splasher like Hal mentioned.

Also, awesome derailment of a thread! :lol: Oldskool stuff!

It's about the same result...there's no point in the other conversation so we started a new one with the equivalent chance of learning/respect/resolution :lol:

[Hal-9000]

we only have one girl at work so I often go into her washroom, put all of toilet seats down and pee on them :face:


she keeps blaming me :sad2:

[Jezter]

It's about the same result...there's no point in the other conversation so we started a new one with the equivalent chance of learning/respect/resolution :lol:

Nuh-uh! I learned about y'alls views! I didn't know about them before!

[PorkChopSandwiches]

I typically will just pee in my trash can under my desk then I dont have to fuck with the cakes

[PorkChopSandwiches]

Nuh-uh! I learned about y'alls views! I didn't know about them before!

where have you been?

[Jezter]

I typically will just pee in my trash can under my desk then I dont have to fuck with the cakes

But if you fucked with the cakes, your pen0r would be all minty and your wife's holes would tingle nicely. :lol:

[Hal-9000]

Just remember and don't be like some Atheist twats.....



God is perfect, I am not :lol:

[Jezter]

where have you been?

In teh basement.

[Acid Trip]

It could be worse. You could have a bathroom that smelled like pee 24/7 cause they were to cheap to buy the urinal cakes.

[Hal-9000]

I suck on the urinal mints to determine the expiry date

[Teh One Who Knocks]

we only have one girl at work so I often go into her washroom, put all of toilet seats down and pee on them :face:


she keeps blaming me :sad2:

When I use the bathroom here at work, I like to put the seat down before I exit and splash water on it to make it look like someone peed on the seat :lol:

[Jezter]

I suck on the urinal mints to determine the expiry date

That explains a lot... Some do bath salts, some do urinal cakes...

[Acid Trip]

When I use the bathroom here at work, I like to put the seat down before I exit and splash water on it to make it look like someone peed on the seat :lol:

:rofl: Looks like Lance and Hal work together.

[PorkChopSandwiches]

But if you fucked with the cakes, your pen0r would be all minty and your wife's holes would tingle nicely. :lol:
I rub toothpaste on her to get the tingle, and I have fresh breath when Im done

Just remember and don't be like some Atheist twats.....
God is perfect, I am not :lol:

Dont forget, I exist :twisted:

[Hal-9000]

she caught me in there once....we have like 9 guys and 1 girl so hers is vacant 90% of the day...


she tried to give me a hard time about being in there and I say - Are you kidding? 5 of those guys had curry for lunch, would you go in there?


she larfed :lol:

[Jezter]

I rub toothpaste on her to get the tingle, and I have fresh breath when Im done



*takes notes*

[Muddy]

http://i.imgur.com/HQCUg.jpg

[Hal-9000]

God doesn't believe in Atheists..

[minz]

God doesn't believe in Atheists..

He told you that himself did he?

[Hal-9000]

it's a play on words Speedy :lol:



:rolleyes:

[Muddy]

God doesn't believe in Atheists..

:lol: clever.

[Hal-9000]

thank you, I had to think for a minute on that one :dance:

[Acid Trip]

God doesn't believe in Atheists..

It's bad luck to be superstitious.

[Hal-9000]

It's bad luck to be superstitious.

Atheists pray that Jehovah's Witnesses don't show up at their door.

[Muddy]

Atheists pray that Jehovah's Witnesses don't show up at their door.

So does everyone else.. :lol:

[Hal-9000]

So does everyone else.. :lol:

Invite them in, pull out your cock, roll a joint and then ask - Who wants to go first?


they know when they're beaten :lol:

[Muddy]

I like to debate them.. It's pretty easy..

[PorkChopSandwiches]

Atheists pray that Jehovah's Witnesses don't show up at their door.

I just tell them that I'm Jewish, thats sends them running

[Muddy]

:hitler:

[Hal-9000]

I like to debate them.. It's pretty easy..

I ask them for their home addresses and a time that would be convenient for them...

[Muddy]

I ask them for their home addresses and a time that would be convenient for them...

Ask for a time that would be inconvenient for them..

[Acid Trip]

Invite them in, pull out your cock, roll a joint and then ask - Who wants to go first?


they know when they're beaten :lol:

My dad used to invite them in, offer them some water or a snack, and then listened to what they had to say.

At the end he'd say "I'm afraid we have two different beliefs. I appreciate you coming by and hope you have a nice day."

They'd come back a couple times a year just to say hi. Their beliefs are strange but they are nice people.

[PorkChopSandwiches]

I dont like any solicitors coming to my house, except for the guy with fresh made tamales, I always let him in.

[Muddy]

I like it when the window replacement companies send Trayvon to my door to try and sell me 10k in construction work..

[PorkChopSandwiches]

Do you thank them then shoot them in the face?

[Muddy]

I release the hounds...

[Noilly Pratt]

I remember the weekend right after September 11th I had a Jehova's Witness canvass my door.

They of course worked it into their pitch - "Don't you think that the world changed forevermore after that horrible day?" I answered "no, only unless we let it." Blew the wind out of her sails...she was ready to connect the dots to let it signify why JW is the best way, the end of days is nigh etc.

I went further..."I haven't seen 4 guys on horseback yet - this is only a tragic event, not a 'sign' or a harbinger of things to come".

[DemonGeminiX]

I'm an American and you wanna know what I believe in?



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sRYNYb30nxU


I also believe that lead singer could use the services of an orthodontist.