Engine Air Filters and other stuff

[DemonGeminiX]

I know those K&N reusable filters are the bomb, but I've run across another reusable cotton engine air filter made by a company called Spectre and that costs about $30 less than the K&N. Does anyone know if the Spectre engine air filter is any good?

:-k

[Goofy]

Are you talking about the clamp on kind of K&N where you remove most of the old induction system? They dont make a lot of difference unless you have a highly tuned engine tbh....... just makes it guzzle more fuel and gives it a 'sucking' sound under the bonnet :lol:

[DemonGeminiX]

Are you talking about the clamp on kind of K&N where you remove most of the old induction system? They dont make a lot of difference unless you have a highly tuned engine tbh....... just makes it guzzle more fuel and gives it a 'sucking' sound under the bonnet :lol:

No, these are manufactured to fit. You don't have to replace the assembly, you just throw the filter in and close it up.

[DemonGeminiX]

At least that's what I'm getting from the descriptions. Could be wrong, though.

So you think I should just go with a standard paper replacement filter?

:-k

[Pony]

Yes they are direct replacement and I don't know if I'd spend the money on them. Typically I just get what's cheapest.

[Hugh_Janus]

just make sure it isn't an oiled filter if your car has a MAF sensor

[KevinD]

What Hugh said. You can use an oiled filter (like a K&N) but you must be careful not to over oil it, as the heated elements in a MAF sensor do NOT like oil, and thus you would have to replace your MAF soon afterwards. Spectre filter are okay, but, on a daily driven car, just go to local auto parts store and buy a paper factory style replacement. Despite what you may have heard, a free flowing air filter doesn't add much (if any) hp, and does nothing at all to improve fuel economy.

[DemonGeminiX]

Thanks for the help guys. Stay tuned for my inquiries into brakes.

:thumbsup:

[redred]

http://i.imgur.com/gCb3L.jpg

:lol: only joking but i did always have one of these stickers on my cars i use to race

[DemonGeminiX]

:lol:

Ok! Brakes questions:

After getting my oil changed, the Honda service center handed me this paper with notes on what I need to be thinking about in the future. It said that I need front and rear brakes soon, and on the checklist, the guy marked the "immediate attention required" box on all four brakes and listed them as 3mm (which I'm assuming is how much material is left on the brake pads).

There is nothing mentioning the rotors, pistons, or the calipers so I'm assuming that either they didn't look that close at the whole shindig (as they would have no reason to take the wheels off during this visit) or he's hoping to spring it on me when I say "Ok, go ahead and take care of it". Now I've watched several videos online on how to replace rotors and brake pads, so I have a pretty good idea of what's going to be done when I have it done. However, several things were not addressed:

Question 1: If I get my brake pads replaced (assuming four disc brakes instead of two front disc and two rear drum brakes), should I automatically just ask to have my rotors replaced as well, or should I wait to see what the service technician says? I'm assuming that I don't need rotors as the paper says there's 3mm of material left on the brake pads and I'm not hearing any grinding noises when I use the brakes.

Question 2: Should I go with standard replacement brake pads for my vehicle or should I look into some alternative 3rd party brake pad (for example, ceramic brake pads)?

Question 3: What can I expect to pay for brake pad replacement at a dealership service center compared to a nondealer national chain compared to an independently owned and operated local service station?

Question 4: Same as above but what if we include the rotors?

Question 5: And finally, how long will this sort of job usually take (assuming the service technicians aren't lollygagging around and wasting time on purpose)?


Edit: I have a 2006 Honda Civic EX 2-door auto transmission, if that helps any.

[redred]

i wouldn't bother with up rated ceramic pads if i were you not if your not planning alot more power

whats a rotor?

when i do me pads front and back sat out on my front drive i'll be looking at 2 hours max and thats without rushing and making sure everything is put back right a few stops here and there someone trained should be faster ,if your pads aren't grinding you shouldn't need disks replaced as long as theres no ridges cracks etc imo

btw i'm in no way a mechanic just know a bit about cars

[Hugh_Janus]

:lol:

Ok! Brakes questions:

After getting my oil changed, the Honda service center handed me this paper with notes on what I need to be thinking about in the future. It said that I need front and rear brakes soon, and on the checklist, the guy marked the "immediate attention required" box on all four brakes and listed them as 3mm (which I'm assuming is how much material is left on the brake pads).

There is nothing mentioning the rotors, pistons, or the calipers so I'm assuming that either they didn't look that close at the whole shindig (as they would have no reason to take the wheels off during this visit) or he's hoping to spring it on me when I say "Ok, go ahead and take care of it". Now I've watched several videos online on how to replace rotors and brake pads, so I have a pretty good idea of what's going to be done when I have it done. However, several things were not addressed:
if it was just an oil change, then I doubt the'd have done anything more than a quick visual inspection. You can't really check the caliper until you've removed it (unless trhe disc is blue, in which case the piston in the calliper is probably siezed :lol: )

Question 1: If I get my brake pads replaced (assuming four disc brakes instead of two front disc and two rear drum brakes), should I automatically just ask to have my rotors replaced as well, or should I wait to see what the service technician says? I'm assuming that I don't need rotors as the paper says there's 3mm of material left on the brake pads and I'm not hearing any grinding noises when I use the brakes.
short answer - no

If there was simething wrong with the rotors, it should have been picked up when the dude spotted your "3mm" brake pads

also, your pads (assuming they've never been replaced) probably have a little metal tag on them official term = "acoustic wear indicator" they make a high pitched screech when they touch the rotor

Question 2: Should I go with standard replacement brake pads for my vehicle or should I look into some alternative 3rd party brake pad (for example, ceramic brake pads)?
don't waste money on "high performance" stuff. You could probably get pattern parts cheaper yourself and ask the garage to fit them for you

Question 3: What can I expect to pay for brake pad replacement at a dealership service center compared to a nondealer national chain compared to an independently owned and operated local service station?
labour times for replacing brake pads for your car about 0.6 hours per axle

Question 4: Same as above but what if we include the rotors?
1 hour per axle (including pads)

Question 5: And finally, how long will this sort of job usually take (assuming the service technicians aren't lollygagging around and wasting time on purpose)?
assumiong they aren't retards
pads about 20 mins

pads and rotors about 30-40 mins

how many miles hjas the car done?

[DemonGeminiX]

How many miles has the car done?

I have about 30000 miles on it, maybe a tad less, but I bought it used and got it when the odometer read 22500. I've been finding little things here and there that need to be taken care of since I bought it, but that's par for the course with most used cars. Most of it was taken care of when it was still under warranty, but that warranty has expired now, so I wasn't looking at any major costs before. I can't really complain though, it's in great running order.

[redred]

i don't think you need to upgrade the pads imo for engine size etc i only did things like that when i took out a 1 litre and put in a 1.6 on the vauxhalls had and when i played with me mini (car not anything else) just get a good known make read reviews if needed you want a balance of pad ware disk ware

[Hugh_Janus]

rotors *should* be ok wear wise then. I'd expect they'd need to be changed when the new pads are worn low

[Teh One Who Knocks]

Question 2: Should I go with standard replacement brake pads for my vehicle or should I look into some alternative 3rd party brake pad (for example, ceramic brake pads)?


don't waste money on "high performance" stuff. You could probably get pattern parts cheaper yourself and ask the garage to fit them for you

^^^ This....I got ceramic pads once....not worth it and they ended up screeching like a mother after a few weeks. Definitely not worth the HUGE upcharge. Any reputable place will warranty the pads if they end up failing early. I usually have my work done at a local Firestone owned garage. They did my brakes, a few months later they were acting all funky and they re-did them for no charge.

[fricnjay]

DGX if they make it for your car look into Amsoil filters. They allow about the same amount of airflow as a K&N but stop about 50% more of the air-born particulates. They are also typically around 30 dollars and are reusable. They last around 100,000 miles and do not require oiling at all. You just clean with with some compressed air and blow them off, the box actually has instructions. I use Amsoil Oil, tranny fluid and oil and air filters exclusively. Going from Mobile one and Wix I have notice more power and about 2 to 3 miles per gallon better efficiency and I only have to change my oil once a year. :dance:

[Pony]

I think you shouldn't worry about the brakes yet, the wear indicators will give you time to get them fixed before the rotors get damaged. They were most likely trying to upsell the job.

[Teh One Who Knocks]

I think you shouldn't worry about the brakes yet, the wear indicators will give you time to get them fixed before the rotors get damaged. They were most likely trying to upsell the job.

I always wait too long and fuck up the rotors :oops:

[KevinD]

Only thing I have to add about the brakes issue is I wouldn't go with the bargain basement cheapo auto parts brand(s) they don't last very long, and they tend to create a tremendous amount of brake dust (black/grey junk on your wheels) I would bet your car came with semi-metallic pads from the factory, and a good set of those is fine for replacement.
As per the rotors, it has been my experience that if they are warped, you can feel a "shimmy" when lightly applying the brakes. If they are worn too much, you can feel that with your thumbnail (along the outside edge of the shiny part) with 40k miles or so, it's normal to feel a bit of a ridge (depending on driving habbits and environment) but it shouldn't be drastic.
If you are not mechanically inclined, I wouldn't suggest you doing the brakes yourself the first time. find a friend who knows hoe to do it, have him(or her) watch and teach you how. Other than that, take it to a reputable shop (I never use dealership personally due to excess cost) and have them check the brake system, and give you a written estimate/ scope of work. Brakes are one area that need to work right, every time. Not really something I would suggest a novice to do alone. They are easy, once you've done it and understand how it all works.

[Noilly Pratt]

Lance...I'd say you've been given great advice here. Only thing I can add here is that when my Aerostar (which has similar brakes to your Ranger) needed rotors, or near enough - It just felt "wrong" when braking. (My wife calls me the "car whisperer" - I can usually drive a car and tell you what's up with it! Am I gifted? No - I've just had so many shitty cars in my life everything's gone wrong once!)

I got a shudder throughout the thing that you could feel at the pedal. I thought it was my ABS system, but turned out the rotors were shot - were probably the originals from 280,000 kms (or at least from 100,000 - 280,000 when the owner before me bought my van). Rotors usually last a while!

If you are going through rotors, are you hauling lots of loads, or a trailer with no brakes?

[Noilly Pratt]

What Hugh said. You can use an oiled filter (like a K&N) but you must be careful not to over oil it, as the heated elements in a MAF sensor do NOT like oil, and thus you would have to replace your MAF soon afterwards. Spectre filter are okay, but, on a daily driven car, just go to local auto parts store and buy a paper factory style replacement. Despite what you may have heard, a free flowing air filter doesn't add much (if any) hp, and does nothing at all to improve fuel economy.

I'd agree with that...I do have a K&N filter in my Nissan NX2000. It might give me some small measureable amount of HP, but it's not much.

Way back, I had a bet with a friend who had the basic identical car to mine - 1987 VW Fox - that mine was faster because I took care of it better.

I was meticulous at keeping up my tune ups, oil changes and he was the opposite, but along the way he added a K&N intake...some shifter that was quicker and a fancy loud exhaust. His car certainly sounded the part of racer, but I just kept pulling away from him. We tried 0 - 60, 30-60 etc etc.

There's no substitute for looking after your cars! Both of my cars have 300,000Kms +

[Hugh_Janus]

I'd agree with that...I do have a K&N filter in my Nissan NX2000. It might give me some small measureable amount of HP, but it's not much.

Way back, I had a bet with a friend who had the basic identical car to mine - 1987 VW Fox - that mine was faster because I took care of it better.

I was meticulous at keeping up my tune ups, oil changes and he was the opposite, but along the way he added a K&N intake...some shifter that was quicker and a fancy loud exhaust. His car certainly sounded the part of racer, but I just kept pulling away from him. We tried 0 - 60, 30-60 etc etc.

There's no substitute for looking after your cars! Both of my cars have 300,000Kms +
some cars loose power with performance intake filters fitted.... and run like a bag of shit.

actual fact.

[KevinD]

some cars loose power with performance intake filters fitted.... and run like a bag of shit.

actual fact.

My personal feelings on that (no hard data to back it up) is that a lot of the performance filters/intake just have an open cone type filter under the hood, so the engine is sucking hotter air in. I prefer to stay with a stock style paper filter with an actual cold air intake. I still run a system like this on my 99Z28, and when I put the cold/ram air on, I picked up almost a full 1mph in the 1/8 with similar DA

[Pony]

I always wait too long and fuck up the rotors :oops:

Yep, me too. Many smaller cars the rotors are dirt cheap anyways so you might as well replace them.

[DemonGeminiX]

So the Honda service center wanted around $60 for the cabin air filter and around $30 for the engine air filter. I went down to Advance Auto Parts and paid $20 for both together.

8-)

[Hugh_Janus]

My personal feelings on that (no hard data to back it up) is that a lot of the performance filters/intake just have an open cone type filter under the hood, so the engine is sucking hotter air in. I prefer to stay with a stock style paper filter with an actual cold air intake. I still run a system like this on my 99Z28, and when I put the cold/ram air on, I picked up almost a full 1mph in the 1/8 with similar DA
your personal feeling is spot on. When I just came out of my time I had a customer complain that his car wasn't running right, I checked the ECU for stored DTCs.... nothing. I took the car out for a road test and it sounded mental:mrgreen: but it didn't go anywhere. So I go back to the workshop and start doing my thing when I have this brainwave.... big engine +small engine bay = lots of heat. So I take the car out for a blast with a live data logger and see the intake air temp is sky high.... Back to the shop I go and I rip out the headlight cos the filter is right behind it and go for another spin.... hey presto, car pulls like a train.

So the Honda service center wanted around $60 for the cabin air filter and around $30 for the engine air filter. I went down to Advance Auto Parts and paid $20 for both together.

8-)

you gunna go get your hands dirty then? :dance:

[DemonGeminiX]

you gunna go get your hands dirty then? :dance:

Yep, I'm doin' it myself.

;)

[DemonGeminiX]

Well, I finally got around to putting in those air filters. I took advantage of the brutal heat so that I wouldn't get eaten alive by an infinite swarm of gnats. It took me about a minute and a half to replace both air filters.

And the Honda service center wanted me to pay $90 to let them do it.

:roll:

[Pony]

Haha, they round that 90 seconds up to an hours labor? Sounds about right. :mrgreen:

[DemonGeminiX]

Now I know why they won't let you in the bay to watch them do the work. Because they're full of shit.

[Pony]

I wonder if I can find the book time for changing those filters. I'm betting it's probably only .1-.2 hours.

2 tenths at 90 an hour is 18 bucks. so even if it was .2 each filter that's still only 36 dollars.

[DemonGeminiX]

I wonder if I can find the book time for changing those filters. I'm betting it's probably only .1-.2 hours.

2 tenths at 90 an hour is 18 bucks. so even if it was .2 each filter that's still only 36 dollars.

And both filters cost me $25 in total.

[Southern Belle]

People always try to screw me out of money when they work on my car. Fuckers.

[KevinD]

Actually it does. When I worked at a dealership service center years ago, the minimum shop charge was for 1 hour. Good job on replacing the filters DGX!

[Hugh_Janus]

Now I know why they won't let you in the bay to watch them do the work. Because they're full of shit.
I down tools if some fucker watches me work:hand:

Actually it does. When I worked at a dealership service center years ago, the minimum shop charge was for 1 hour. Good job on replacing the filters DGX!
we only have minimum charge for diagnostic work.... all the other stuff gets charged book time except bulbs, windscreen wipers and other stuff that takes seconds to fit. They get done FOC providing they buy the parts from us. Well, they did until I spent 40 mins changing a xenon headlight bulb.... now they ask if the car has HID bulbs before telling the customer its free fitting :lol:

[DemonGeminiX]

Toothpaste to clean your headlight lenses?

:-s


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X39V58O_zzc

[Hugh_Janus]

haha! yeah, I'd really try that on a plastic headlight :roll:

[redred]

Well, they did until I spent 40 mins changing a xenon headlight bulb.... now they ask if the car has HID bulbs before telling the customer its free fitting :lol:

a renault by any chance where you have to take the front wing off? :lol:

[DemonGeminiX]

haha! yeah, I'd really try that on a plastic headlight :roll:

:-s

I've watched several videos where people have done it wth great results.

[Hugh_Janus]

a renault by any chance where you have to take the front wing off? :lol:
nah, it was a mazda 6.... I was determined to get the bulb out without removing anything, but in the end, I gave up and had to take the bumper and headlights off

:-s

I've watched several videos where people have done it wth great results.
didn't theyu say the best wat to clean up a CD was to use toothpaste.... I tried that and ended up with an ass load of scratches on it :lol: You sure they were plastic lenses? cos I've seen quite a few lamps that have been cleaned using abraisive stuff and they ended up being all opaque and shit. Anyway, I wouldn't use it 8-)

[FBD]

toothpaste works :thumbsup: its all about what you're doing the rubbing with. nothing very abrasive, that's for sure.

if you get your brakes done you very rarely need new rotors. but, if you've worn the pads down kinda low, feel along the rotor and if there's grooves, take the rotors and have them turned on a lathe before putting the pads on. it will increase the lifetime of the pad significantly, create way less brake dust, and way less likely to squeak. if you take your rig to a place to have them do the brakes make sure you have them turn the rotors.

I wouldnt go with a k&n air filter unless you could feel air restriction when the pedal's on the floor...but that's a subtle thing, tough to really tell. my buddy's mustang - k&n cylinder hanging inside the fender, found a special routing kit that really gets it out of the way of the supercharger :thumbsup: and moves intake to a colder place...although, watch out when its wet :lol:

[Hugh_Janus]

Well, I finally got around to putting in those air filters. I took advantage of the brutal heat so that I wouldn't get eaten alive by an infinite swarm of gnats. It took me about a minute and a half to replace both air filters.

And the Honda service center wanted me to pay $90 to let them do it.

:roll:
today it took me about 30 minutes to change a cabin air filter.... 30 fuckin minutes

a renault by any chance where you have to take the front wing off? :lol:
the 30 minute job I just mentioned was ion a renault.... I had to take the clutch pedal out to change a fuckin cabin filter.... fuckin french fucks

[Goofy]

today it took me about 30 minutes to change a cabin air filter.... 30 fuckin minutes

the 30 minute job I just mentioned was ion a renault.... I had to take the clutch pedal out to change a fuckin cabin filter.... fuckin french fucks

:lol:

[DemonGeminiX]

I'm actually looking around for estimates on the brake pad replacement that I never took care of 2 years ago. I emailed a few places and I'm waiting for a reply.

The brakes still aren't screeching, but when I had my tires replaced two months ago, I got a good look at them, and they did look worn down. Close to the metal. I suppose I should go ahead and take care of the filters again as well. It's been two years. 8-[

[DemonGeminiX]

Now I'm wondering if I buy the brake pads myself, if the auto shops would install them for me without a hassle, and what I could expect them to charge me for the service alone.

[Hugh_Janus]

0.7 of an hour maximum. I quote the same time whether customers buy their own bits or let us supply them

[DemonGeminiX]

So you don't care whether your customers buy their own parts or get them from your business?

[Hugh_Janus]

on general wear & tear and service parts? No. There isn't that much of a markup on those things, so I'm not losing business for the sake of a tenner :shrug:

[Hugh_Janus]

I should say though, if you supply your own stuff where there can be a decent markup, then you will find an extra bit of time added on in your quote

#allaboutthepaper

[DemonGeminiX]

How much does a timing belt/water pump replacement cost?

:-k

[FBD]

sorry to be the title of bad bearings, but that's a biiiiiiiitch of a job

water pump you usually wind up having to take all the other peripherals off (AC, alt, etc)

and the timing belt is probably on the other side of the engine from the water pump, so you've basically got to have a lot of that sumbich apart

=fucking expensive

[Hugh_Janus]

anything from 1 hour to 8+ hours in labour. If it was coming in to me, the tensioner, guide pulley and water pump (if driven by the timing belt) would also be getting changed otherwise I wouldn't do the job.