PDA

View Full Version : Obama in 2002: Toppling Brutal Dictator a ‘Dumb War’



AntZ
03-31-2011, 06:57 AM
Obama in 2002: Toppling Brutal Dictator a ‘Dumb War’

Wednesday, March 30, 2011
By Matt Cover



(CNSNews.com) – President Barack Obama, as an Illinois state senator in 2002, said that using military force to topple a murderous dictator amounted to a “dumb war” and should be opposed.

The “dumb war” Obama was criticizing was the planned invasion of Iraq and the murderous dictator was its leader, Saddam Hussein. Obama, speaking at an anti-war rally in Chicago on Oct. 2, 2002 said that while Saddam was a brutal tyrant, that was not enough to justify using military force to remove him from power.

“Now, let me be clear – I suffer no illusions about Saddam Hussein,” said Obama in his speech. “He is a brutal man. A ruthless man. A man who butchers his own people to secure his own power. He has repeatedly defied U.N. resolutions, thwarted U.N. inspection teams, developed chemical and biological weapons, and coveted nuclear capacity. He's a bad guy. The world, and the Iraqi people, would be better off without him.”

"... After September 11th, after witnessing the carnage and destruction, the dust and the tears, I supported this administration's pledge to hunt down and root out those who would slaughter innocents in the name of intolerance, and I would willingly take up arms myself to prevent such tragedy from happening again," said Obama. "I don't oppose all wars. ... What I am opposed to is a dumb war. What I am opposed to is a rash war. What I am opposed to is the cynical attempt by Richard Perle and Paul Wolfowitz and other armchair, weekend warriors in this administration to shove their own ideological agendas down our throats, irrespective of the costs in lives lost and in hardships borne."

Obama argued that deposing Saddam militarily was not necessary, because Iraq posed no “direct threat” to the United States. Obama also cited Iraq’s weakened economy and the fact that it was still possible to contain Saddam’s aggression, repudiating the Bush administration’s rationale that Saddam posed too great a threat to American interests and his own people to be left in power.

“But I also know that Saddam poses no imminent and direct threat to the United States, or to his neighbors, that the Iraqi economy is in shambles, that the Iraqi military is a fraction of its former strength, and that in concert with the international community he can be contained until, in the way of all petty dictators, he falls away into the dustbin of history,” said Sen. Obama.

However, as president of the United States, Obama has discounted those same arguments he once made against using military force against brutal dictators.

In his March 28, 2011 speech justifying his decision to attack the government of Libyan leader Moammar Gadhafi, Obama cited Gadhafi’s record of brutality, saying that allowing Gadhafi to continue his brutality was not an option.

“Qaddafi declared he would show ‘no mercy’ to his own people,” said President Obama. “He compared them to rats, and threatened to go door to door to inflict punishment. In the past, we have seen him hang civilians in the streets, and kill over a thousand people in a single day.

“Now we saw regime forces on the outskirts of the city,” Obama said. “We knew that if we waited, if we waited one more day, Benghazi, a city nearly the size of Charlotte, could suffer a massacre that would have reverberated across the region and stained the conscience of the world.”

Gadhafi, apparently unlike Saddam, needed to be stopped because he would kill his own people to maintain his own power, an act that this time posed a threat to America’s “interests and values,” Obama said.

“But when our interests and values are at stake, we have a responsibility to act,” said Obama. “That’s what happened in Libya over the course of these last six weeks.”

Obama, in his 2002 speech, said that instead of deposing Saddam through force, America should “fight” for democratic reforms in countries such as Saudi Arabia and Egypt, stronger international nuclear safeguards, and energy independence.

“Those are the battles that we need to fight,” Obama said in 2002. “Those are the battles that we willingly join – the battles against ignorance and intolerance, corruption and greed. Poverty and despair.”

By 2011, however, Obama had come to endorse the use of military power to enforce America’s “responsibility as a [global] leader” arguing that the United States was “different” and therefore had no other choice but to attack Libya.

“To brush aside America’s responsibility as a leader and, more profoundly, our responsibilities to our fellow human beings under such circumstances would have been a betrayal of who we are,” he said. “Some nations may be able to turn a blind eye to atrocities in other countries. The United States of America is different.”


http://cnsnews.com/news/article/obama-2002-toppling-brutal-dictator-dumb

lost in melb.
03-31-2011, 07:54 AM
Isn't the US just "helping out", multilaterally like in many a war. Yugoslavia? Africa? S. America? Weapons here and there to groups that you like. Hardly atypical US behaviour.. And I don't see any mention of sending in troups.

However in regards to Iraq, the comparison point here obviously, I think we all know that at the time Iraq was invaded it was stable and there was not a civil war at the time.

And lastly, who is complaining about the action against Ghadafi? Are there anti-war marches in the major western capitals around the world? Is there widespread condemnation?

Oh, and yes I'm aware that this is just an Obama-bashing article so common sense won't prevail here. Pretty convoluted and badly-written too...

AntZ
03-31-2011, 10:40 AM
Oh, and yes I'm aware that this is just an Obama-bashing article so common sense won't prevail here. Pretty convoluted and badly-written too...


Naturally!

Because in the two years he's been in office, he's broken every promise, contradicted every one of his grandstanding pre-presidential speeches and positions. And has proved that he is a rank amateur and over his head in every category of the office. But only his starstruck admirers will continue to blindly try to find anything to prop up his short comings and attack ANY criticism of him!

I just continue to laugh out loud at some, in the "unbiased" media, when they just plain ignore incredible examples ineptness and stupidity.

Even yesterday, he was awarded an award from his sycophants for "transparency in government" while locking out the media! And there are investigations for his administrations doing exactly and worse what the Dems. have always whined about. Except when they're in office.

FBD
03-31-2011, 11:07 AM
However in regards to Iraq, the comparison point here obviously, I think we all know that at the time Iraq was invaded it was stable and there was not a civil war at the time.


Come now, you realize why there was never civil war under Saddam. - because the Army would come and deal with you as ruthlessly as possible. The Iraqis literally had no chance to rebel against him, organize it and make it happen. He had the country in a full nelson all those years!

Binky
03-31-2011, 12:15 PM
Isn't the US just "helping out", multilaterally like in many a war. Yugoslavia? Africa? S. America? Weapons here and there to groups that you like. Hardly atypical US behaviour.. And I don't see any mention of sending in troups.

However in regards to Iraq, the comparison point here obviously, I think we all know that at the time Iraq was invaded it was stable and there was not a civil war at the time.

And lastly, who is complaining about the action against Ghadafi? Are there anti-war marches in the major western capitals around the world? Is there widespread condemnation?

Oh, and yes I'm aware that this is just an Obama-bashing article so common sense won't prevail here. Pretty convoluted and badly-written too...

*looks at FBD nervously* lol

Yeah, doesn't make much sense, if you're in America you're better off reading another country's online newspapers

FBD
03-31-2011, 01:00 PM
the newspapers and "media" did it to themselves, that's why basically blogs are every bit as trusted if not more :lol: (depending on the exact circumstances, but they are at least a good balance)

Teh One Who Knocks
03-31-2011, 01:24 PM
the newspapers and "media" did it to themselves, that's why basically blogs are every bit as trusted if not more :lol: (depending on the exact circumstances, but they are at least a good balance)

Seriously? :-s

So the Drudge Report and The Daily Kos are just as reliable to get your news from as The NY Times or The Chicago Tribune?

FBD
03-31-2011, 02:15 PM
:lol: Are you trying to tell me that the NY times and Chicago Tribune (or Reuters, or AP for that matter) are completely unbiased???

:hand:


:lol:

Teh One Who Knocks
03-31-2011, 02:24 PM
They are far less biased than those 2 blogs I cited and if you don't think so, then you have been obviously drinking the kool-aid ;)

Arkady Renko
03-31-2011, 02:28 PM
I think Obama did have a point back then. When the invasion was waged Saddam wasn't particularly murderous (anymore) and there were quite a few other dictators that would have needed deposing much more urgently. But these guys had the good fortune that they didn't leand themselves as fall guys for 9/11 and they weren't among America's pet enemies either.

Gaddafi on the other hand, is currently busy trying to butcher the opposition in his country (albeit with limited success so far) and to this point the interbvention has been concentrated on air strikes, keeping the risk for the soldiers involved minimal. So if your intention was to exposea double standard, it would be necessary to find similar subjects that were treated differently. Libya and Iraq are different subjects treated differently.

FBD
03-31-2011, 03:44 PM
Lance...How much less is of course debatable depending on what exactly you're referring to - but my main point was, you simply are not getting unbiased news any more.



I think Obama did have a point back then. When the invasion was waged Saddam wasn't particularly murderous (anymore) and there were quite a few other dictators that would have needed deposing much more urgently. But these guys had the good fortune that they didn't leand themselves as fall guys for 9/11 and they weren't among America's pet enemies either.

Gaddafi on the other hand, is currently busy trying to butcher the opposition in his country (albeit with limited success so far) and to this point the interbvention has been concentrated on air strikes, keeping the risk for the soldiers involved minimal. So if your intention was to exposea double standard, it would be necessary to find similar subjects that were treated differently. Libya and Iraq are different subjects treated differently.

:lol: Oh, forgettings of history...

"wasnt particularly murderous"??? :hand:

torturing your soccer team for losing is ok, though?

Arkady Renko
03-31-2011, 03:58 PM
:lol: Oh, forgettings of history...

"wasnt particularly murderous"??? :hand:

torturing your soccer team for losing is ok, though?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying Saddam should have gotten an award from Amnesty International or anything, he was a brutal tyrant, no doubt about it. But the worst crimes he committed happened in the 80s and 90s, e.g. the use of poison gas against kurdish civilians and iranian soldiers. After Desert Storm he was no worse than dozens of other dictators so it really makes little sense to remove him and only him from power by massive use of military force and leave all the other guys who were just as bad to their own devices.

Godfather
03-31-2011, 04:01 PM
Without having read this entire thread, I just have to say that personally I'm having trouble not laughing at the Republicans (or whoever they are) who have the gull to rip Obama for getting involved in Lybia.... when they started two wars of their own, both of which are ongoing.

Pretty funny they try and swing it to make Obama look the the only shitty politician out there :lol:

Teh One Who Knocks
03-31-2011, 04:03 PM
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying Saddam should have gotten an award from Amnesty International or anything, he was a brutal tyrant, no doubt about it. But the worst crimes he committed happened in the 80s and 90s, e.g. the use of poison gas against kurdish civilians and iranian soldiers. After Desert Storm he was no worse than dozens of other dictators so it really makes little sense to remove him and only him from power by massive use of military force and leave all the other guys who were just as bad to their own devices.

Agree 100%

FBD
03-31-2011, 04:19 PM
So what do you think Obama would be doing about Libya's nuke program, then? Dont forget that Gadaffi only gave 'em up after he saw Saddam taken out and hung.

GF, "the republicans" is slightly misleading. "The democrats" voted in support of it, and there would have been a whole ton of Rs that wouldnt have with the gift of that 20/20 hindsight.

AntZ
03-31-2011, 05:04 PM
Without having read this entire thread, I just have to say that personally I'm having trouble not laughing at the Republicans (or whoever they are) who have the gull to rip Obama for getting involved in Lybia.... when they started two wars of their own, both of which are ongoing.

Pretty funny they try and swing it to make Obama look the the only shitty politician out there :lol:

You might want to check your facts on the bold statement! Bi-partisan Congressional votes, AND U.N. resolutions, AND coalitions of other countries including yours, hurts your argument!

And NO ONE is trying to make Obama look like a shitty politician, he's doing that all on his own!

Godfather
03-31-2011, 05:14 PM
You were the guys who got bored of people ripping on Bush for eight years right!? :lol:


Up here I'm just dying for Obama's term to end so you guys stop bitching about him all year round :P














(Which I say with much love :P )

Arkady Renko
04-01-2011, 11:44 AM
So what do you think Obama would be doing about Libya's nuke program, then? Dont forget that Gadaffi only gave 'em up after he saw Saddam taken out and hung.

Is that so? How do you know his motivations? After all, he managed to trade his WMD programs in for business deals worth tens of billions of dollars that would not have been possible if Libya had continued to be a pariah state. If memory serves, Gaddafi seized the opportunity 9/11 provided him with and condemned the attacks. From then on, Libya pursued a systematic cozying up approach towards the US. Granted, maybe he was just clever and saw what was coming to Saddam and didn't want to end up as the other fall guy for 9/11, but it seems much more likely that he had come to the conclusion that business was more interesting than ideology a lot earlier and didn't know how to change course without losing face until 9/11.

FBD
04-01-2011, 11:55 AM
I cant claim to exactly know his motivations, but the events were pretty suggestive of that.