Letter asks school to warn parents when sensitive subjects arise

[Teh One Who Knocks]

Louise Brown, Education Reporter - The Toronto Star




A number of conservative Christian and Muslim parents — unusual political bedfellows — suddenly are asking schools across the GTA to notify them when their child’s class will discuss topics ranging from homosexuality and birth control to wizardry, evolution and “environmental worship,” so they can withhold their child from classes that contradict their religious beliefs.

They are giving schools the same five-page “Traditional Values Letter” used by a Greek Orthodox father who has sued the Hamilton school board for refusing to warn him when his children’s teachers plan to talk about family, marriage or human sexuality. Hamilton dentist Dr. Steve Tourloukis said Monday he only wants those issues taught to his Grade 1 daughter and Grade 4 son “from a Christian perspective.”

“I’m not an extremist, but I must ensure that my children abstain from certain activities that may include lessons which promote views contrary to our faith,” said Tourloukis, who is supported by a group called the Parental Rights in Education Defense Fund. “We know other denominations like Jehovah’s Witnesses and Muslims are excused for certain activities. Does our being Christian disqualify us from equitable treatment?”

Just days after Ontario’s new school anti-bullying law, Bill 13, took effect — promoting acceptance of all types of diversity — some parents of conservative Christian and Muslim backgrounds began presenting letters to public elementary schools in Toronto, Peel, York and Durham regions asking to be notified before their children’s class discusses a topic on a list the parent has checked off.

Word of the letters, while few in number, has set off alarms across a province-wide network of school equity officers. Its founder, Chris D’souza, warned that “any attack on Ontario’s move forward to an inclusive school system is a concern.”

As well as being notified about lessons on sex education, sexual orientation and evolution, the form letter, available on some Christian and Muslim parent websites, also lets parents ask for a warning if a teacher plans to “place environmental concerns above the value of our Muslim (or Christian) principles and human life.”

“We do agree with many of the goals of conservation, however these principles are often presented from a humanistic world view (for the benefit of man) or a naturalistic world view (deifying the earth) which is in conflict with our teachings,” notes the letter. “Conservation would be more successful for our children if connected to their understanding of being respectful of their Creator’s creation.”

Government sources say Ontario parents can request their child be excused only from certain portions of sex education.

The letter was penned by PEACE (Public Education Advocates for Christian Equity) Hamilton, a Christian parent group led by Phil Lees, also head of Ontario’s Family Coalition Party. PEACE Hamilton is helping to raise an estimated $65,000 for Tourloukis’ lawsuit, said Lees, and has posted a blank copy of the Traditional Values Letter for parents to download from its website. Parents simply insert the name of their faith, into the same letter.

“If we’re really a public education system, we need to be pluralistic and embrace values that go beyond the humanistic approach of Ontario schools that’s based on the belief there is no spiritual being,” said Lees. The former teacher has visited several Muslim parent groups to offer tips on how to try to sidestep school equity policy, including the Seerah School group in Toronto’s largely Muslim Thorncliffe Park neighbourhood.

“Muslim parents are very serious about their children, and a majority of them want to live a pious life,” noted Seerah founder Jawed Anwar, who said he believes at least 100 parents have given the letter to schools. “Bill 13 is a punch in their face.”

While school boards ponder how to respond, Ontario’s minister of education says the inclusive approach of Ontario’s school system is here to stay.

“These competing rights can be complex issues, but one reason educators from around the world study our system is because our schools are safe places for everyone,” Laurel Broten said.

“A little person can draw a picture of her two moms or two dads, for example, and feel safe and accepted. That’s what happens in classes across Ontario and that’s what should happen.”

[Teh One Who Knocks]

...suddenly are asking schools across the GTA to notify them when their child’s class will discuss topics ranging from homosexuality and birth control to wizardry, evolution and “environmental worship,” so they can withhold their child from classes that contradict their religious beliefs...

:wtf:

[KevinD]

Gonna go out on a limb here. I gotta say I agree. Not too familiar with Canadian public schools, but some of the ones in my area have gotten absurd. Luckily, I meet with my daughter's teachers on a regular basis, and step like these have not been needed.

[Teh One Who Knocks]

Gonna go out on a limb here. I gotta say I agree. Not too familiar with Canadian public schools, but some of the ones in my area have gotten absurd. Luckily, I meet with my daughter's teachers on a regular basis, and step like these have not been needed.

So....they teach wizardry in Texas? :-k


Explains a lot :thumbsup:













:dance:

[KevinD]

Gun wizardry? Yes, we do. lol

[Muddy]

Wizardry.. :lol:

Really though, I would like to know the county's stance on certain subjects before they attempt to program my kid with it..

[KevinD]

While I know schools are required to teach to Dept of Education (federal) standards, I find it strange in the extreme some of the things my kids are being taught, or not being taught (such as no Texas history)

[minz]

I'm a little split on this, I think its a good thing to have an overview of all religions and beliefs, ignorance only breeds contempt.

[KevinD]

IMHO, school is not the place to teach any religion. That is what churches are for. However, though I may not agree with creationist or evolutionist per se, I can see the point that they don't want counter ideas taught to their kids. it should be up to parents to agree what the kids are taught.

[minz]

But that is the root of many problems today Kev, certain religions literally brain wash their children to their way of thinking instead of allowing them an overview of the world as it really is with mixed religions and mixed beliefs, it makes them very close minded and so the cycle of intolerance continues. :dunno:

[Acid Trip]

IMHO, school is not the place to teach any religion. That is what churches are for. However, though I may not agree with creationist or evolutionist per se, I can see the point that they don't want counter ideas taught to their kids. it should be up to parents to agree what the kids are taught.

If the parents want to be in charge of everything their kids are taught them they should be home schooled.

Otherwise they must accept the consequence that public schooling may teach ideas/beliefs outside what the family believes.

[DemonGeminiX]

*Casts spell on Lance*

[Muddy]

Otherwise they must accept the consequence that public schooling may teach ideas/beliefs outside what the family believes.

Actually NO.. They "must not" accept that.. The school is run by standards.. Those standards are written by a delegation of the people.. We the people.

Just because a Federal mandate states that the schools need to have a week highlighting Kwanza doesn't mean I have to accept it.. You shocked me with this.. You of all people I thought would never roll over and say you should take it up the ass from the federal government or just go home..

[Teh One Who Knocks]

*Casts spell on Lance*

:twizone:

[Acid Trip]

Actually NO.. They "must not" accept that.. The school is run by standards.. Those standards are written by a delegation of the people.. We the people.

Just because a Federal mandate states that the schools need to have a week highlighting Kwanza doesn't mean I have to accept it.. You shocked me with this.. You of all people I thought would never roll over and say you should take it up the ass from the federal government or just go home..

Ummm, ok. I went to public school and heard a bunch of dumb shit that I let go in one ear and out the other. My parents didn't have to freak out every time I was taught something questionable.

If you want to babysit your kids and filter everything they hear through a racist/religious filter then keep them at home. And you're right, if you don't like the curriculum then change it. But don't sit and bitch about public schooling when you do have other options. It's the times when there are no other options (like buy Healthcare of pay a tax) that bother me.

[KevinD]

Actually NO.. They "must not" accept that.. The school is run by standards.. Those standards are written by a delegation of the people.. We the people.

Just because a Federal mandate states that the schools need to have a week highlighting Kwanza doesn't mean I have to accept it..


This was my point mostly, though MG expressed it better than I. You, as a parent, do in fact have the ability to control what your child is taught.

[Muddy]

If you want to babysit your kids and filter everything they hear through a racist/religious filter then keep them at home. .

The Kwaanza example was just that, an example.. I'm personally more concerned about the PC crap and how its presented.. Like the Trayvon case.

*edit* well actually I guess Kwanzaa is also PC crap.. So.. I dunno.. done.

[KevinD]

But that is the root of many problems today Kev, certain religions literally brain wash their children to their way of thinking instead of allowing them an overview of the world as it really is with mixed religions and mixed beliefs, it makes them very close minded and so the cycle of intolerance continues. :dunno:

While I understand what you are saying, I think you missed my point. The teaching of religion should be kept out of school entirely. That doesn't mean that if something in history involved religion (say, the Crusades) it shouldn't be taught.
I wouldn't want my child to be taught that God, Jehova, Yahwe, whatever you call him/her doesn't exist. If a class, hmm, perhaps wants to teach the about the types of various different religions, I have no problem with that personally, however there are those who will disagree, and it is (or should be) their right to not have the child attend that class.

[Acid Trip]

The Kwaanza example was just that, an example.. I'm more concerned about the PC crap and how its presented.. Like the Trayvon case.

What in the hell does Trayvon have to do with public schooling? The "PC crap" and "how its presented" was because of a LIBERAL MEDIA covering the story.

In public schooling they will teach some things you may not like. They created a curriculum based on what millions of different minded people believed was a "standard" education.

Either get the curriculum changed, home school your kid, or send them to the private school of your choice. You have lots of choices.

Expecting a public school to get expressed permission before every subject is asinine. Surely you and Kevin can see that.

[Jezter]

But that is the root of many problems today Kev, certain religions literally brain wash their children to their way of thinking instead of allowing them an overview of the world as it really is with mixed religions and mixed beliefs, it makes them very close minded and so the cycle of intolerance continues. :dunno:

This. So much this. Plus, I don't see what is the issue with sex ed, sexual orientation, evolution and the likes. Why prevent the youth from learning and letting them use their own head to decide what is their opinion, their thoughts and stand on these matters. The parents and school both serve a valuable role in helping, supporting and teaching our children about the world and how it works. Limiting them and forcing them to just go with what the parents hold true and right is wrong in my opinion. There is no point in overprotecting our children. They are not the same as their parents, but their own individuals who should be given the right to choose themselves what they want to learn about.
Also, I think it is healthy if a kid comes home with bunch of new, interesting info he or she has learned at school. Then back at home, the parents can talk about these things with their child and tell them what they believe in and why. Healthy discussions and teaching home and school is the way to go.

[KevinD]

What in the hell does Trayvon have to do with public schooling? The "PC crap" and "how its presented" was because of a LIBERAL MEDIA covering the story.

In public schooling they will teach some things you may not like. They created a curriculum based on what millions of different minded people believed was a "standard" education.

Either get the curriculum changed, home school your kid, or send them to the private school of your choice. You have lots of choices.

Expecting a public school to get expressed permission before every subject is asinine. Surely you and Kevin can see that.


I didn't say the school has to get permission. I said I stand by the parents' right to pull the child out of a class they don't agree with.

[KevinD]

This. So much this. Plus, I don't see what is the issue with sex ed, sexual orientation, evolution and the likes. Why prevent the youth from learning and letting them use their own head to decide what is their opinion, their thoughts and stand on these matters. The parents and school both serve a valuable role in helping, supporting and teaching our children about the world and how it works. Limiting them and forcing them to just go with what the parents hold true and right is wrong in my opinion. There is no point in overprotecting our children. They are not the same as their parents, but their own individuals who should be given the right to choose themselves what they want to learn about.
Also, I think it is healthy if a kid comes home with bunch of new, interesting info he or she has learned at school. Then back at home, the parents can talk about these things with their child and tell them what they believe in and why. Healthy discussions and teaching home and school is the way to go.


So, holding my children to my own morals of right and wrong is wrong??? If so, then to whose standards should they be held?
As for coming home and discussing new ideas, I absolutely agree. It's done all the time at my home, and I've even been known to change my stance once or twice, lol

[Muddy]

What in the hell does Trayvon have to do with public schooling? The "PC crap" and "how its presented" was because of a LIBERAL MEDIA covering the story.

Surely you and Kevin can see that.


Kevin and I probably see it a lot better than you seeing as we both have children in the public school system.

[Jezter]

So, holding my children to my own morals of right and wrong is wrong??? If so, then to whose standards should they be held?
As for coming home and discussing new ideas, I absolutely agree. It's done all the time at my home, and I've even been known to change my stance once or twice, lol

No, ofcourse not. One shouldn't force them to one's children and let that be the only truth he or she ever knows. This is why I said,
Also, I think it is healthy if a kid comes home with bunch of new, interesting info he or she has learned at school. Then back at home, the parents can talk about these things with their child and tell them what they believe in and why. Healthy discussions and teaching home and school is the way to go.
So you can talk about your beliefs and why they are your beliefs, morals, etc. so that your child(ren) can get even wider view on things.

[DemonGeminiX]

:twizone:

:dance:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YCjspyo-_aI

[Acid Trip]

I didn't say the school has to get permission. I said I stand by the parents' right to pull the child out of a class they don't agree with.

And where did I argue that parents didn't have the right to pull their kids out of class? I'm not sure who you are arguing but it's not me.

[KevinD]

No, ofcourse not. One shouldn't force them to one's children and let that be the only truth he or she ever knows. This is why I said,
So you can talk about your beliefs and why they are your beliefs, morals, etc. so that your child(ren) can get even wider view on things.

I understand your point, but I fundamentally disagree. It IS the parents' responsibility to instill morals, respect, etc. Having a closed mind is wrong in my opinion, but allowing my child to be taught AND HELD RESPONSIBLE FOR GIVING "CORRECT" ANSWERS to things I don't agree with is not my idea of education. I won't stand for it at all.

[Acid Trip]

Kevin and I probably see it a lot better than you seeing as we both have children in the public school system.

You are arguing things I never argued against. Kevin thinks I'm against letting parents pull their kids from school (wrong) and I'm not sure what the hell you are arguing anymore. You're scatterbrained as hell in this thread.

First it was "I can't believe what you're saying letting government do you in the butt blah blah" (a reading comprehension problem on your part, nothing unusual there), then it was Trayvon (a different subject all together), and now it's "he doesn't understand school since he has no kids".

[MrsM]

My 2 cents - I'm all for schools to teach my kids alternative views on the world than what I believe or support - I want them to be exposed to these different ideas so that when they grow up they have broader understanding of the world that we live in.

Even though I do not believe in any religion - I do not have a problem with my kids learning about the different religions and even participating in different cultural events.

I believe that what these parents in the OP are doing is not protecting their kids - but protecting their narrow minded views from being questioned by their kids.

Kids are smarter than we give them credit for... I enjoy talking to my kids and debating different thing that they learned in school and from their friends. Kids should learn how to listen to different opinions and make their own decision on what to believe. and it's the role of the parent to guide them.

[KevinD]

And where did I argue that parents didn't have the right to pull their kids out of class? I'm not sure who you are arguing but it's not me.

No where that I know of, lol. I was just clarifying my point in regards to this:


Expecting a public school to get expressed permission before every subject is asinine. Surely you and Kevin can see that.

I think we mostly agree, just are expressing it from different points due to lack of personal interaction via the interwebs, lol


Oh, and AT, I don't think we are disagreeing on parent's rights to pull kids from class, lol

My original position on the OP was that I agree with the parents desire to be informed when a subject they don't agree with is being taught. Thereby the parents are able to remove the child from the class.

[Jezter]

I understand your point, but I fundamentally disagree. It IS the parents' responsibility to instill morals, respect, etc. Having a closed mind is wrong in my opinion, but allowing my child to be taught AND HELD RESPONSIBLE FOR GIVING "CORRECT" ANSWERS to things I don't agree with is not my idea of education. I won't stand for it at all.
Sure, parents set the foundation and seed of the morals etc. , but it is wrong to limit them to only those that you yourself believe in. You can not say that your morals, views, opinions are the only right ones any more than the school can. That is why I think it is better to teach the kids as much as possible about the world and how it works so that they can themselves form their own views, opinions, ideas, morals etc. as they grow up. I think it is all about how it is taught...and I guess the average American doesn't have much belief and trust in the education system as opposed to who it is over here in Scandinavia in general...

[Muddy]

You are arguing things I never argued against. Kevin thinks I'm against letting parents pull their kids from school (wrong) and I'm not sure what the hell you are arguing anymore. You're scatterbrained as hell in this thread.

First it was "I can't believe what you're saying letting government do you in the butt blah blah" (a reading comprehension problem on your part, nothing unusual there), then it was Trayvon (a different subject all together), and now it's "he doesn't understand school since he has no kids".

I just don't have time to wage a debate/war with you right now.. Im popping back and forth between the site and work. I'm sorry..

[DemonGeminiX]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t9EE0_gd8OA

[KevinD]

My 2 cents - I'm all for schools to teach my kids alternative views on the world than what I believe or support - I want them to be exposed to these different ideas so that when they grow up they have broader understanding of the world that we live in.

Even though I do not believe in any religion - I do not have a problem with my kids learning about the different religions and even participating in different cultural events.

I believe that what these parents in the OP are doing is not protecting their kids - but protecting their narrow minded views from being questioned by their kids.

Kids are smarter than we give them credit for... I enjoy talking to my kids and debating different thing that they learned in school and from their friends. Kids should learn how to listen to different opinions and make their own decision on what to believe. and it's the role of the parent to guide them.


I can see that, but suppose a class was teaching that the Nazi Germany was correct in the belief in Aryan Supremacy? (It's a stretch, I know, but bear with me)
Would you allow your child to go to that class?
What if you were not allowed to pull the child from the class without being penalized?

From what I get in the OP, the parents aren't trying to get the school to teach differently, but just want to know when certain subjects are bieng taught that they don't agree with.

[Acid Trip]

Seriously though, can we really warn parents before a teacher makes any reference to a sensitive subject? That would be a lot of letters/phone calls and there is no way you could catch them all.

If a kid asks "Why do cheetahs have spots?" a teacher could slip up and say "cheetahs evolved with spots to make them harder to see by prey". Oh shit, just reference evolution without parental consent.

Kid asks, "why do we have off from school on December 25th? Teacher says, "That's Jesus' birthday...err...Christmas...errr...it's just another day off" Doh, just referenced religious topics without consent.

Perhaps we should give teachers a list of prepared responses based on what we want our children to believe. :roll:

[KevinD]

Sure, parents set the foundation and seed of the morals etc. , but it is wrong to limit them to only those that you yourself believe in. You can not say that your morals, views, opinions are the only right ones any more than the school can. That is why I think it is better to teach the kids as much as possible about the world and how it works so that they can themselves form their own views, opinions, ideas, morals etc. as they grow up. I think it is all about how it is taught...and I guess the average American doesn't have much belief and trust in the education system as opposed to who it is over here in Scandinavia in general...

Jez, please don't get upset. We are just discussing things that have no bearing on either of our countries, lol
Oh, and don't confuse me with average Americans, lol

It is my duty to provide a solid foundation until my child is out of my home. It is not the school (or any other government agency) right to do so. As I said, if my child has questions, we can discuss any issues involved.

[KevinD]

Seriously though, can we really warn parents before a teacher makes any reference to a sensitive subject? That would be a lot of letters/phone calls and there is no way you could catch them all.

If a kid asks "Why do cheetahs have spots?" a teacher could slip up and say "cheetahs evolved with spots to make them harder to see by prey". Oh shit, just reference evolution without parental consent.

Kid asks, "why do we have off from school on December 25th? Teacher says, "That's Jesus' birthday...err...Christmas...errr...it's just another day off" Doh, just referenced religious topics without consent.

Perhaps we should give teachers a list of prepared responses based on what we want our children to believe. :roll:

I don't think it's unreasonable to request advance notice when a class is being devoted to a certain subject. Offhand remarks? Of course there's no way to regulate that.

[Jezter]

Jez, please don't get upset. We are just discussing things that have no bearing on either of our countries, lol
Oh, and don't confuse me with average Americans, lol

It is my duty to provide a solid foundation until my child is out of my home. It is not the school (or any other government agency) right to do so. As I said, if my child has questions, we can discuss any issues involved.
I wont and don't get upset, Kev. No worries! :D Doesn't have any bearing, no, but our opinions on this matter are still influenced by the school system we went through and the country we live in.

Well, how can there be any questions if certain things weren't taught and brought to your kid's attention... Yes, parents' are to provide a solid foundation ofcourse. I also believe it is parents' job to provide their children with spark to be curious about his or her environment, the world he or she lives in and how it works. Not limit, overprotect and narrow their mind and lives.

[KevinD]

Well, how can there be any questions if certain things weren't taught and brought to your kid's attention... Yes, parents' are to provide a solid foundation ofcourse. I also believe it is parents' job to provide their children with spark to be curious about his or hers environment, the world he or she lives in and how it works. Not limit, overprotect and narrow their mind and lives.

How can there be questions??? roflmfao........

Can't wait 'till you have some kids of your own, lol

I don't consider myself narrow or closed minded. I do have a strong moral code (though I sometimes ignore it, lol) and I would never raise my child to not question everything. All I am saying is that as per the OP, it is the parents right to be informed of what children are being taught, and to remove child from class if they wish.

I may not agree with others views on subjects, but they have the right to said views. They also have the right to hear me bitch about it, lol :mrgreen:

[Hal-9000]

Keep in mind people...this document was drafted by Christian and Muslim parents. Only a portion of the parents in the world today. So it's designed to keep 'their' little Johnnies and Suzies safe from certain subject matter. I use the term safe but you know I mean shielded from ideas like evolution, wizardry...:lol: the like.

If it was a coalition of Atheist parents, I'm sure the wording/rules/structure of the letter would shield their kids from other subjects...

Up here we have Christian and Muslim schools so the idea of religion in school gets a little muddy. I think public schools should offer religious courses, and like others have mentioned...let the parents decide the curriculum when it comes to subjects like that.

[Jezter]

How can there be questions??? roflmfao........

Can't wait 'till you have some kids of your own, lol

I don't consider myself narrow or closed minded. I do have a strong moral code (though I sometimes ignore it, lol) and I would never raise my child to not question everything. All I am saying is that as per the OP, it is the parents right to be informed of what children are being taught, and to remove child from class if they wish.

I may not agree with others views on subjects, but they have the right to said views. They also have the right to hear me bitch about it, lol :mrgreen:

I know very well there will be questions of all sorts, but I think you know what I meant.
I, infact, have always loved kids and I have babysat and I just got approved to work as volunteer in the pro-active youth project here in my home town...so I know how it is. :D Getting good practice for the future. ;)
I didn't say you were close or narrow minded, just that none of us can say we are the one and only true source of truth and moral etc. I do agree that parents ofcourse will have to have the right to pull their kids out of class if they so wish, but I just don't understand why that would be necessary...

[MrsM]

I can see that, but suppose a class was teaching that the Nazi Germany was correct in the belief in Aryan Supremacy? (It's a stretch, I know, but bear with me)
Would you allow your child to go to that class?
What if you were not allowed to pull the child from the class without being penalized?

From what I get in the OP, the parents aren't trying to get the school to teach differently, but just want to know when certain subjects are bieng taught that they don't agree with.

:lol: that might be a stretch - but lets say that my kids came home and they told me about this class that they had where the teacher said that...

First thing I would talk to them about what I believe and try to counter any arguments that the teacher may have told them - then in that case where the topic is very concerning to me - I would talk to the principle (I'm part of the parent council and have a good relationship with teachers and staff).

I would ask for clarification as to the circulum and what is to be taught in that class.

If it was approved that the teacher can teach that topic - I would be asking if there was a way to counter balance that topic with other view points and if not ... then I would pull my child from that class.

From what I know with most of the circulum for public schools (up to grade 4 and that is where my oldest is) discussions about religion, family etc are usually high level and often talk about different view points. I believe that the OP was that the parents didn't want their kids to hear the different view points.

that to me is the problem and they are not helping their kids by limiting their exposure to these other views.

[KevinD]

I know very well there will be questions of all sorts, but I think you know what I meant.

Yeah, I did, just yanking your chain a bit, lol


I, infact, have always loved kids and I have babysat and I just got approved to work as volunteer in the pro-active youth project here in my home town...so I know how it is. :D Getting good practice for the future. ;)

Hmm, loves kids, works in a "youth project" Oh snap, Jez is a paedo!!!!:cheerlead::shock::mrgreen:


I didn't say you were close or narrow minded, just that none of us can say we are the one and only true source of truth and moral etc. I do agree that parents ofcourse will have to have the right to pull their kids out of class if they so wish, but I just don't understand why that would be necessary...

I don't feel it necessary either, not here anyway, but it is their right to do so imho.

[MrsM]

How can there be questions??? roflmfao........

Can't wait 'till you have some kids of your own, lol

I don't consider myself narrow or closed minded. I do have a strong moral code (though I sometimes ignore it, lol) and I would never raise my child to not question everything. All I am saying is that as per the OP, it is the parents right to be informed of what children are being taught, and to remove child from class if they wish.

I may not agree with others views on subjects, but they have the right to said views. They also have the right to hear me bitch about it, lol :mrgreen:

One Note here Kev- I agree that parents should be aware of what is being taught... I also believe that if a parent disagrees with the topic that they have the right to pull their kid from the school

However - I do not support that that kid should get special treatment or a "custom" test if the parent does not support the teachings.

[KevinD]

I can agree with that.

I honestly think we all basically agree here, just some slight variances on fine points. Those could be attributable to chatting on the net, not face to face.

[Jezter]

Hmm, loves kids, works in a "youth project" Oh snap, Jez is a paedo!!!!:cheerlead::shock::mrgreen:
You bastard! :lol: :nutkick: :razz:




I don't feel it necessary either, not here anyway, but it is their right to do so imho.
Yeah, we agree there...but I just don't understand these demands in the OP. Ohwell..there are all sorts of people in the world. Good to read about these things, cuz they definitely strengthen my views on how I want to raise my future children and in what kind of schools I want them to be in. Provided that I will one day be blessed with my own kiddos.

[Hal-9000]

We had a teacher in Eckville, Alberta that taught elementary school kids a course about how the holocaust never happened...Jim Keegstra was his name I believe. Going on memory but I think he was charged and lost his ability to teach.

[KevinD]

You bastard! :lol: :nutkick: :razz:

I couldn't resist, lol



Yeah, we agree there...but I just don't understand these demands in the OP. Ohwell..there are all sorts of people in the world. Good to read about these things, cuz they definitely strengthen my views on how I want to raise my future children and in what kind of schools I want them to be in. Provided that I will one day be blessed with my own kiddos.

One of the best things about the www imho:
The exposure to various differing viewpoints.
Often I will read something, stop and think about it, and organize my feelings about it. The only thing I am absolutely sure of is we're all gonna die. lol
Oh and Jez...little guy has to go in front door to have babies....lol

[KevinD]

We had a teacher in Eckville, Alberta that taught elementary school kids a course about how the holocaust never happened...Jim Keegstra was his name I believe. Going on memory but I think he was charged and lost his ability to teach.

Hope so. that would be the entirely correct response.