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Teh One Who Knocks
10-31-2012, 10:50 AM
Court: Fourth Amendment allows 24/7 camera surveillance of "open fields."
by Timothy B. Lee - Ars Technica


A federal judge has ruled that police officers in Wisconsin did not violate the Fourth Amendment when they secretly installed cameras on private property without judicial approval.

The officers installed the cameras in an open field where they suspected the defendants, Manuel Mendoza and Marco Magana, were growing marijuana. The police eventually obtained a search warrant, but not until after some potentially incriminating images were captured by the cameras. The defendants have asked the judge to suppress all images collected prior to the issuance of the search warrant.

But in a Monday decision first reported by CNET, Judge William Griesbach rejected the request. Instead, he approved the ruling of a magistrate judge that the Fourth Amendment only protected the home and land directly outside of it (known as "curtilage"), not open fields far from any residence.

The Fourth Amendment protects "the right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures." The court ruled that under applicable Supreme Court precedents, "open fields, as distinguished from curtilage, are not 'effects' within the meaning of the Fourth Amendment."

The property in question was heavily wooded, with a locked gate and "no trespassing" signs to notify strangers that they were unwelcome. But the judges found that this did not establish the "reasonable expectation of privacy" required for Fourth Amendment protection. In their view, such a rule would mean that (in the words of a key 1984 Supreme Court precedent) "police officers would have to guess before every search whether landowners had erected fences sufficiently high, posted a sufficient number of warning signs, or located contraband in an area sufficiently secluded to establish a right of privacy."

"The Supreme Court has upheld the use of technology as a substitute for ordinary police surveillance," the judges held. Because it would be legal for the police to enter a private field to collect evidence, they concluded it must also be legal to install cameras there.

But this illustrates the absurdity of automatically allowing the police to automate any surveillance activities they're allowed to do manually. In arguments over warrantless GPS surveillance, for example, the government has insisted that installing a tracking device on a suspect's car is no different than having an officer manually follow the car, an activity that has always been permitted by the Fourth Amendment.

But the police only have the resources to tail a small number of suspects at any one time, and a suspect is likely to notice a car following him 24/7. So allowing the installation of GPS tracking devices dramatically increases the government's practical spying powers even if the formal law hasn't changed. And that, in turn, can diminish the privacy protections that are the whole point of the Fourth Amendment.

The same point applies to the installation of surveillance cameras. The police can't afford to put police officers in the bushes of every suspected marijuana grower. But they can afford to install surveillance cameras in every suspect's back yard. So allowing warrantless camera installation dramatically increases the police's surveillance powers, which ought to attract stricter judicial scrutiny.

Update: Our original story incorrectly suggested that Mendoza or Malaga owned the property in question. As the magistrate judge explained in a footnote:


The government also briefly argues that there was no Fourth Amendment search because neither Mendoza nor Magana owned or leased the Property. The court need not address this argument because: (1) it is arguably underdeveloped; (2) the record does not disclose whether Mendoza or Magana leased the Property; and (3) as set forth below, the motion can be denied on other grounds

DemonGeminiX
10-31-2012, 11:10 AM
If they didn't own the property, then fuck them.

redred
10-31-2012, 11:13 AM
i'm all for whats your own is your own ,but if this manages to stop say another 9/11 or a pedo ring then it's job is done ,rights or no rights

FBD
10-31-2012, 12:01 PM
A federal judge has ruled that police officers in Wisconsin did not violate the Fourth Amendment when they secretly installed cameras on private property without judicial approval.

Gotta love the destruction of the 4th amendment.

It simply does not matter if the people owned or rented the property - the police put up surveillance on private property, with cameras placed inside the property line, without the owner's permission, without a warrant.

I fkn HATE it when judges craft excuses to support a ruling they want.

Acid Trip
10-31-2012, 01:02 PM
i'm all for whats your own is your own ,but if this manages to stop say another 9/11 or a pedo ring then it's job is done ,rights or no rights

That reasoning is okay for British subjects but Americans don't see it that way.

Governments want you to believe they can give you wealth and safety. All you have to do is give up your liberty, and especially "the spirit of liberty," to quote Sam Adams.

But you don't really want "liberty" anyway, because that means personal responsibility. That means risk and uncertainty. Better to be a pampered slave.

redred
10-31-2012, 01:09 PM
don't get me wrong i wouldn't want anyone hiding cameras in my house ,but then i wouldn't be doing anything wrong to get to this stage , you'll only be getting this treatment if you attract the attention of the police, the average joe public can carry on with your 4th amendment thing

FBD
10-31-2012, 01:19 PM
You wouldnt be doing anything wrong? What if the government is the one doing something wrong, and they decide that you might be doing something wrong so they decide to violate your rights in order to find out? And then have a judge declare that violation of rights as perfectly fine admissible evidence?

When people say we're devolving into a police state, this is exactly the type of shit they're referring to. We have a constitution for a reason, and branches of power violating that are violating their social contract with the people. Revolutions have happened over similar violations of power. What's it going to take for our government to stop violating our rights like this...another revolution???

Acid Trip
10-31-2012, 01:23 PM
You wouldnt be doing anything wrong? What if the government is the one doing something wrong, and they decide that you might be doing something wrong so they decide to violate your rights in order to find out? And then have a judge declare that violation of rights as perfectly fine admissible evidence?

When people say we're devolving into a police state, this is exactly the type of shit they're referring to. We have a constitution for a reason, and branches of power violating that are violating their social contract with the people. Revolutions have happened over similar violations of power. What's it going to take for our government to stop violating our rights like this...another revolution???

America's Founding Fathers would say that Americans today are slaves. Wealthy slaves, but still slaves. Slaves that enjoy luxury and tranquility, but still slaves.

Sam Adams tossed tea into the Boston Harbor rather than be subjected to a tax of 3 pence per pound. How much tax do you pay on each gallon of gas you buy?

Why do you pay 20 times more in taxes than America's Founding Fathers? Because you think the government guarantees you "the good life."

Most people think that if you have wealth, you have Liberty. There is an element of truth to this. But it is also one of the most dangerous myths of the century in which we live, as Sam Adams can help us see. We think of slaves as being poor, deprived of all wealth. Sam Adams will help us see that we now live in the century of wealthy slaves living in luxury.

So in my eyes yes, another revolution is necessary to get back where we should be.