Feds Buy Two Billion Rounds of Ammunition

[Oofty Goofty]

Something strange is going on. Federal non-military agencies have bought two billion rounds of ammunition in the last 10 months. The Obama Administration says that federal law enforcement agents need the ammunition for “mandatory quarterly firearms qualifications and other training sessions.”

Radio show host Mark Levin is suspicious. He commented:

To provide some perspective, experts estimate that at the peak of the Iraq war American troops were firing around 5.5 million rounds per month. At that rate, the [Department of Homeland Security] is armed now for a 24-year Iraq war. A 24-year Iraq war! I’m going to tell you what I think is going on. I don’t think domestic insurrection. Law enforcement and national security agencies, they play out multiple scenarios. … I’ll tell you what I think they’re simulating: the collapse of our financial system, the collapse of our society and the potential for widespread violence, looting, killing in the streets, because that’s what happens when an economy collapses. I suspect that just in case our fiscal situation, our monetary situation, collapses, and following it the civil society collapses, that is the rule of law, they want to be prepared. I know why the government’s arming up: It’s not because there’s going to be an insurrection; it’s because our society is unraveling.

Even though the National Rifle Association says that the amount of ammunition bought isn’t excessive, considering the number of federal agents and the fact that the ammunition is used over a five-year period, there are others who question why the need for so many federal agents. Among them is Jeff Knox, director of The Firearms Coalition, who said:

It’s not the number of bullets we need to worry about but the number of feds with guns it takes to use those bullets. There are currently more than 70 different federal law enforcement agencies employing over 120,000 officers with arrest and firearms authority . . . That’s an increase of nearly 30 percent between 2004 and 2008. If the trends have continued upward at a relatively steady rate, that would put the total number of federal law enforcement officers at somewhere between 135,000 and 145,000. That’s a pretty staggering number, especially when you consider that there are only an estimated 765,000 state and local law enforcement officers. That means that about one in seven law enforcement officers in the country works directly for the federal government, not a local jurisdiction.

[Oofty Goofty]

Major General: Why Are Domestic Government Agencies Purchasing Enough Lethal Ammunition to Put 5 Rounds In Every American?
Posted on August 20, 2012 by WashingtonsBlog
Why Do They Need So Much Ammunition?

Preface: There might be an innocent explanation. But given recent trends, this is worrisome.

Retired Major General Jerry Curry wrote Friday:

The Social Security Administration (SSA) confirms that it is purchasing 174 thousand rounds of hollow point bullets to be delivered to 41 locations in major cities across the U.S.

***

Those against whom the hollow point bullets are to be used — those causing the civil unrest — must be American citizens; since the SSA has never been used overseas to help foreign countries maintain control of their citizens.

What would be the target of these 174, 000 rounds of hollow point bullets? It can’t simply be to control demonstrators or rioters. Hollow point bullets are so lethal that the Geneva Convention does not allow their use on the battle field in time of war. Hollow point bullets don’t just stop or hurt people, they penetrate the body, spread out, fragment and cause maximum damage to the body’s organs. Death often follows.

Potentially each hollow nose bullet represents a dead American. If so, why would the U.S. government want the SSA to kill 174,000 of our citizens, even during a time of civil unrest?

***

If this were only a one time order of ammunition, it could easily be dismissed. But there is a pattern here. The National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) has ordered 46,000 rounds of hollow point ammunition. Notice that all of these purchases are for the lethal hollow nose bullets. These bullets are not being purchased and stored for squirrel or coyote hunting. This is serious ammunition manufactured to be used for serious purposes.

In the war in Iraq, our military forces expended approximately 70 million rounds per year. In March DHS ordered 750 million rounds of hollow point ammunition. It then turned around and ordered an additional 750 million rounds of miscellaneous bullets including some that are capable of penetrating walls. This is enough ammunition to empty five rounds into the body of every living American citizen. Is this something we and the Congress should be concerned about? What’s the plan that requires so many dead Americans, even during times of civil unrest? Has Congress and the Administration vetted the plan in public.

***

All of these rounds of ammunition can only be used to kill American citizens, though there is enough ammunition being ordered to kill, in addition to every American citizen, also every Iranian, Syrian or Mexican. There is simply too much of it. And this much ammunition can’t be just for training, there aren’t that many weapons and “shooters” in the U.S. to fire it.

***

We have enough military forces to maintain law and order in the U.S. even during times of civil unrest.

***

This is a deadly serious business. I hope I’m wrong, but something smells rotten. And If the Congress isn’t going to do its duty and investigate this matter fully, the military will have to protect the Constitution, the nation, and our citizens.

Why are government agencies doing this?

Major General Curry asks a troubling questions:

We have local police, backed up by each state’s National Guard, backed up by the Department of Defense. So in addition to all these forces why does DHS need its own private army? Why do the SSA, NOAA and other government agencies need to create their own civilian security forces armed with hollow nose bullets?

This may sound like a conspiracy theory …

But remember that Senator Daniel Inouye said in 1987:

There exists a shadowy Government with its own Air Force, its own Navy, its own fundraising mechanism, and the ability to pursue its own ideas of national interest, free from all checks and balances, and free from the law itself.


The Federal Reserve – which is not exactly federal (and see this)- also has its own police force. See this and this.

Chalmers Johnson called the CIA the President’s private army.

And that’s nothing compared to JSOC. As John Glaser wrote in February:

For the past decade, we’ve seen the rise of a secret, unaccountable U.S. military force … Joint Special Operations Command (JSOC) is an unwieldy private army at the command of the President, and him only. And they conduct military and spy missions all over the world, never receiving formal congressional approval ….

“Without the knowledge of the American public,” wrote Nick Turse back in August, “a secret force within the U.S. military is undertaking operations in a majority of the world’s countries. This new Pentagon power elite is waging a global war whose size and scope has never been revealed.” According to a recent Congressional Research Service report, JSOC forces “reportedly conduct highly sensitive combat and supporting operations against terrorists on a world-wide basis.” As the New York Times this week reported:

The Special Operations Command now numbers just under 66,000 people — including both military personnel and Defense Department civilians — a doubling since 2001. Its budget has reached $10.5 billion, up from $4.2 billion in 2001 (after adjusting for inflation).Over the past decade, Special Operations Command personnel have been deployed for combat operations, exercises, training and other liaison missions in more than 70 countries. Since the invasion of Iraq in 2003, Special Operations Command sustained overseas deployments of more than 12,000 troops a day, with four-fifths committed to the broader Middle East.

JSOC operates outside the confines of the traditional military and even beyond what the CIA is able to do.

***

But it goes well beyond the war zones. In concert with the Executive’s new claims on extra-judicial assassinations via drone strikes, even if the target is an American citizen, JSOC goes around the world murdering suspects without the oversight of a judge or, god forbid, granting those unfortunate souls the right to defend themselves in court against secret, evidence-less government decrees about their guilt. As Pulitzer Prize winning journalist Seymour Hersh said at a speaking event in 2009:

Congress has no oversight of it. It’s an executive assassination ring essentially, and it’s been going on and on and on.***

Under President Bush’s authority, they’ve been going into countries, not talking to the ambassador or the CIA station chief, and finding people on a list and executing them and leaving. That’s been going on, in the name of all of us….

[Marc Ambinder told Wired]:

There are legal restrictions on what the CIA can do in terms of covert operations. There has to be a finding, the president has to notify at least the “Gang of Eight” [leaders of the intelligence oversight committees] in Congress. JSOC doesn’t have to do any of that. There is very little accountability for their actions. What’s weird is that many in congress who’d be very sensitive to CIA operations almost treat JSOC as an entity that doesn’t have to submit to oversight. It’s almost like this is the president’s private army, we’ll let the president do what he needs to do.

An End-Run Around the Constitution?

[Hal-9000]

"Iraq war American troops were firing around 5.5 million rounds per month."

wow, that's almost 185 000 rounds per day....and these mooks over here in peace-time bought 2 BILLION rounds in 300 days?

[Oofty Goofty]

Obama DHS Purchases 2,700 Light-Armored Tanks to Go With Their 1.6 Billion Bullet Stockpile


This is getting a little creepy.
According to one estimate, since last year the Department of Homeland Security has stockpiled more than 1.6 billion bullets, mainly .40 caliber and 9mm.

DHS also purchased 2,700 Mine Resistant Armor Protected Vehicles (MRAP).
homeland security mrap

Modern Survival Blog reported:

The Department of Homeland Security (through the U.S. Army Forces Command) recently retrofitted 2,717 of these ‘Mine Resistant Protected’ vehicles for service on the streets of the United States.

Although I’ve seen and read several online blurbs about this vehicle of late, I decided to dig slightly deeper and discover more about the vehicle itself.

The new DHS sanctioned ‘Street Sweeper’ (my own slang due to the gun ports) is built by Navistar Defense (NavistarDefense.com), a division within the Navistar organization. Under the Navistar umbrella are several other companies including International Trucks, IC Bus (they make school buses), Monaco RV (recreational vehicles), WorkHorse (they make chassis), MaxxForce (diesel engines), and Navistar Financial (the money arm of the company).

DHS even released a video on their newly purchased MRAPs.
Via Pat Dollard:

The MRAP featured in this video is was in Albuquerque, New Mexico for Law Enforcement Day which was held at a local area Target Store. This MRAP is stationed in El Paso, Texas at The Homeland Security Investigations Office. MRAP is a Mine Resistant Armor Protected Vehicle.

[Oofty Goofty]

http://i1180.photobucket.com/albums/x406/Oofty_Goofty/DHS_zpsd21865dc.jpg


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0pS9aw5pcJo&feature=player_embedded

[Griffin]

This isn't new news. I heard about this over a year ago.
The DHS has been gearing up for an Obama induced civil war since he was given the office.

[Hal-9000]

and the irony is that one single bullet could change the course of history









oops :lol:

[Loser]

There's a reason they're doing this and it has nothing to do with genocide or mass chaos or any of that conspiracy theory bullshit.

They are causing a demand spike.

Most firearm manufacturers are running at maximum capacity and are at least 3 month backlogged. Smith & wesson is almost a year backlogged.

Think of what this is doing to the ammunition suppliers. There are almost 20 people each week waiting at my local walmart for the ammunition truck to pull up, it literally doesn't even hit the shelf.

[Hal-9000]

There's a reason they're doing this and it has nothing to do with genocide or mass chaos or any of that conspiracy theory bullshit.

They are causing a demand spike.

Most firearm manufacturers are running at maximum capacity and are at least 3 month backlogged. Smith & wesson is almost a year backlogged.

Think of what this is doing to the ammunition suppliers. There are almost 20 people each week waiting at my local walmart for the ammunition truck to pull up, it literally doesn't even hit the shelf.


that is so sad :lol:


I'm sorry

[DemonGeminiX]

*Doesn't tell Hal to look at my celebrity death pool list*

8-[

[Oofty Goofty]

Pretty scary stuff when you start looking at everything the government domestically has done in the last few years - military helicopters firing blanks and flying above the streets of downtown major American cities while in a coordinated exercise with local police - non-military non-law enforcement agencies buying enough ammunition to last decades - non-military non-law enforcement agencies buying armored vehicles

If the same things had been done during the Bush administration, it would be front page news and the lead off story on every newscast. But since it's Nobel Peace Prize winning Obama, nobody is saying a thing about it.

[DemonGeminiX]

The thing is, I believe that the majority of people in the feds that are being trained and armed would no more be able to fire on an American citizen than they would their own mother. If they're looking to quell a national rebellion, they're gonna lose based on my hunch that about 3/4ths of the feds and military would abandon their posts to go be with their families. Blood is thicker than water. They'll switch sides.

[Hal-9000]

*Doesn't tell Hal to look at my celebrity death pool list*

8-[

You got some Walmart shoppers on there?








:lol: sorry, this is serious subject

[RBP]

The thing is, I believe that the majority of people in the feds that are being trained and armed would no more be able to fire on an American citizen than they would their own mother.

That's what the drones are for ;)

[DemonGeminiX]

That's what the drones are for ;)

For every security measure created, there's somebody on this Earth that's figured out how to defeat it. I'm thinking somebody in this country already knows how to build a homemade EM pulse gun to fry those drones' circuits and pick them out of the sky, or block the signal used to control it.

[Hal-9000]

Postulating....America could be one of the only countries... if the government did get out of line, the general population would have a fair chance of toppling the local forces, since 3/4's of the people are armed already.

In other countries and I mean this sincerely, the people still fear their governments in this regard. Meaning that they think the government would wipe their asses if it came to a large confrontation.





And since every kid in Texas gets a gun for their 7th birthday, I'd make my stand there :thumbsup:

[Oofty Goofty]

The oath taken by military personnel states that they will follow lawful orders, not any order given to them. "I was just following orders" was the defense at the Nuremberg trials after WWII. It didn't work for them. Firing upon American civilians would definitely be unlawful. I don't think many military personnel would fire on fellow Americans. I know I wouldn't have when I was in.

[DemonGeminiX]

Postulating....America could be one of the only countries... if the government did get out of line, the general population would have a fair chance of toppling the local forces, since 3/4's of the people are armed already.

In other countries and I mean this sincerely, the people still fear their governments in this regard. Meaning that they think the government would wipe their asses if it came to a large confrontation.





And since every kid in Texas gets a gun for their 7th birthday, I'd make my stand there :thumbsup:

The Framers of the constitution had every intention of the people to rise up and overthrow the government if it got out of hand.

You gotta figure, at least down here, none of the police I know of agree with anything the feds are doing. I know some military guys around here that feel the same way. If it's like that all across the US, then the feds are gonna have one helluva problem on their hands.

[Hal-9000]

The oath taken by military personnel states that they will follow lawful orders, not any order given to them. "I was just following orders" was the defense at the Nuremberg trials after WWII. It didn't work for them. Firing upon American civilians would definitely be unlawful. I don't think many military personnel would fire on fellow Americans. I know I wouldn't have when I was in.

What about worst case scenario?

The pundits are close to the truth when they say that a small economic crisis could provoke the people to take up arms against their government. Imagine if your recession had caused more widespread job loss and drove the price of staples like bread and milk through the roof, to the point where people weren't just crying about first world problems (oh boo hoo, we only have one computer in the house now), they were in serious trouble daily because of poor government management.

Imagine further that the people said - We've worked too hard for too long to pay 30 dollars for a loaf of stale bread and pay 5000/mo for a mortgage on a two room bungalow! And the people gather en masse, get armed and march on their local government offices. At one point Marshall Law would be declared and the government would be forced to arm up (with better weapons, more ammunition) and have no choice but to fire on crowds of thousands..

I'm not an alarmist, but North American economical balance relies on a lot of balls in the air at once...it's no so far-fetched to envision a scenario where a few balls drop and world changes...

[Hal-9000]

The Framers of the constitution had every intention of the people to rise up and overthrow the government if it got out of hand.

You gotta figure, at least down here, none of the police I know of agree with anything the feds are doing. I know some military guys around here that feel the same way. If it's like that all across the US, then the feds are gonna have one helluva problem on their hands.

Good point. The Feds and local law enforcement could have vastly different inclinations/actions should the people decide that they've had enough. Feds would order the military and local law to enforce THEIR rule and perhaps the cops and army guys wouldn't agree with mowing down native civilians at the behest of the all knowing government.