View Full Version : "Cyprus a Template For EU"
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-03-25/word-out-place-sends-europe-tumbling
Perhaps the best example of a "word out of place" comes from the new Eurogroup head, Dijsselbloem, also phonetically known as Diesel-BOOM, who just may have ushered in the next, next wave of the Eurozone crisis:
"Cyprus a Template For EU"
Er... wasn't it a special case, inside a unique case, wrapped in a one-time case? We will ignore the rather hilarious Freudian slip, and focus on what he was explicitly talking about with Reuters, which is the resolution model which was just put in place in Cyprus:
A rescue programme agreed for Cyprus on Monday represents a new template for resolving euro zone banking problems and other countries may have to restructure their banking sectors, the head of the region's finance ministers said.
"What we've done last night is what I call pushing back the risks," Dutch Finance Minister Jeroen Dijsselbloem, who heads the Eurogroup of euro zone finance ministers, told Reuters and the Financial Times hours after the Cyprus deal was struck.
"If there is a risk in a bank, our first question should be 'Okay, what are you in the bank going to do about that? What can you do to recapitalise yourself?'. If the bank can't do it, then we'll talk to the shareholders and the bondholders, we'll ask them to contribute in recapitalising the bank, and if necessary the uninsured deposit holders," he said.
After 12 hours of talks with the EU and IMF, Cyprus agreed to shut down its second largest bank, with insured deposits - those below 100,000 euros - moved to the Bank of Cyprus, the country's largest lender. Uninsured deposits, those accounts with more than 100,000 euros, face losses of 4.2 billion euros.
Uninsured depositors in the Bank of Cyprus will have their accounts frozen while the bank is restructured and recapitalised. Any capital that is needed to strengthen the bank will be drawn from accounts above 100,000 euros.
The agreement is what is known as a "bail-in", with shareholders and bondholders in banks forced to bear the costs of the restructuring first, followed by uninsured depositors. Under EU rules, deposits up to 100,000 euros are guaranteed.
The punchline:
The approach marks a radical departure for euro zone policy after three years of crisis in which taxpayers across the region have effectively been on the hook for resolving problem banks and indebted governments via multiple rescue programmes.
That process, with governments and taxpayers bearing the costs and providing the back stop, had to stop, Dijsselbloem said. Recent financial market calm meant now was the time to make the change, although he conceded there was some concern that it could unsettle markets again.
If adopted by the euro zone, Dijsselbloem's template could also sound a death knell for a plan hatched nine months ago when the euro zone debt crisis was threatening to blow the currency area apart.
Then, euro zone leaders agreed that the bloc's future rescue fund should be allowed to recapitalise banks directly, thereby breaking the debilitating link between teetering banks and weak governments forced to bail them out. That may now never happen
Asked what the new approach meant for euro zone countries with highly leveraged banking sectors, such as Luxembourg and Malta, and for other countries with banking problems such as Slovenia, Dijsselbloem said they would have to shrink banks down.
"It means deal with it before you get in trouble. Strengthen your banks, fix your balance sheets and realise that if a bank gets in trouble, the response will no longer automatically be that we'll come and take away your problem. We're going to push them back. That's the first response we need. Push them back. You deal with them."
Translation: it now officially sucks to be an unsecured creditor in Europe. In other words: an uninsured depositor.
Why this ad hoc dramatic shift in the European approach to bank solvency, which if anything makes the link between bank and sovereign closer than ever, and crushes all that Draghi achieved in the summer of 2012?
Simple: because what Cyprus allowed was the effective usurpation of democracy - the only reason the Cypriot bailout "passed" (at least so far) is because it was structured as a bank restructuring, a financial system "resolution", not a tax, and thus not in need of a parliamentary, democratic vote. Because as Cyprus also showed, votes to deprive depositors of cash, whether insured or uninsured, simply won't fly.
Hence the shift.
However, there is a problem: it means that depositors are now fair game everywhere, and that the ESM or EFSF, with their unlimited scope but "democratic" implementation pathway, are on the backburner.
And now, the scramble to pull uninsured deposits out of banks everywhere begins. Thanks to the new Eurogroup head.
"You ask for miracles, Theo. I give you Diesel-BOOM"
And now, every European depositor is going to their local financial dictionary to look up the definition of General Unsecured Claims, only to see a picture of... themselves.
PorkChopSandwiches
03-25-2013, 05:02 PM
As shitty as it is, its these people trying to hid their money from being taxed, so I kinda have a fuck em, attitude.
that's the straw man of it. its the scapegoat. what the big issue here is, is precedent. what do you think this means for the rest of the PIIGS, france...
...and how do you think that 25bn in deposit insurance will play out here in the USA against the 9700bn in deposits?
why do you think merkel is jumping for joy that they were able to do this without a vote?
PorkChopSandwiches
03-25-2013, 05:15 PM
Its bullshit for sure, Im just saying though :twisted:
oh I hear ya, people go for places that dont tax the fug out of you...but this is EU fuckery at its culmination. this is basically the expected result from years of this EU bullshit.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-03-25/eurogroup-head-says-he-did-not-say-what-he-said-confirms-it-serious-again
That thing Diesel-BOOM very, very clearly said earlier? He did not say it. After all, can't have the market getting any ideas that reality may be slowly coming back to the basket case that is Europe:
EU DIJSSELBLOEM SPOKESWOMAN: DIJSSELBLOEM DIDN'T SAY CYPRUS A TEMPLATE FOR BANK RESTRUCTURINGS - DOW JONES
So not only are European depositors still impairable, because sadly Dijsselbloem was dead serious in his Reuters interview, but the new Eurogroup head pulled a Juncker and confirmed "it is serious" in the process losing all credibility too.
To summarize Diesel-BOOM: "If the market is red, you have to lie."
Forget Risk-On-Risk-Off, it's Template-On-Template-Off now...
http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user3303/imageroot/2013/03/20130325_dis_0.jpg
and what followed these words in the headlines and produces these curves? high frequency trading algorithms, for the most part.
* * * Cue to Diesel-Boom, sitting in his desk, phone ringing: Ring Ring Ring * * *
Diesel-BOOM: "Hello.... Oh Hi Goldman, how are the tentacles hang.."
* * * Interrupted... screaming heard in earpiece * * *
Diesel-BOOM: "You want me to do what... You want me to RETRACT an on the record interview with two major publications... But...But..."
* * * Interrupted again... Long silence... listening intently.... Beads of sweat forming on forehead * * *
Diesel-BOOM: "Oh.... Dear Lord.... I see.... Ok Then.... Done."
* * * Click, fade to black * * *
And just in case the message was lost
Jeroen Dijsselbloem @J_Dijsselbloem
Cyprus specific case. Programmes tailor-made to situation, no models or templates used. Quote: http://tiny.cc/epkiuw .
Jezter
03-25-2013, 08:24 PM
And they they wonder why we Finns are so fucking pissed off at everyone coming to steal from our pockets all the fucking time... We've given money to half of the Europe soon! And there's no fucking end to it... *sigh*
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-03-25/have-russians-already-quietly-withdrawn-all-their-cash-cyprus
well, it appears that all of the big russian money has disappeared from the cypriot banking system while the bank was closed...
And they they wonder why we Finns are so fucking pissed off at everyone coming to steal from our pockets all the fucking time... We've given money to half of the Europe soon! And there's no fucking end to it... *sigh*
how do you think us middle & lower-upper class folk feel in the US about the rest of the fuggin country :dance:
Acid Trip
03-26-2013, 02:22 PM
The rest of the PIIGS are next. If you have any money in Portugal, Ireland, Italy, Greece, or Spain you need to move it ASAP if you haven't already.
If you own bond funds that are invested in risky European bonds I suggest you move it too.
Muddy
03-26-2013, 02:25 PM
Oh so the Eu wants to grab everybodys money now?
You guys wonder why us Americans cherish our guns...
redred
03-26-2013, 02:27 PM
Oh so the Eu wants to grab everybodys money now?
You guys wonder why us Americans cherish our guns...
you can't shoot internet bank transfers :lol:
Muddy
03-26-2013, 02:28 PM
you can't shoot internet bank transfers :lol:
You can put that stuff in your own safe though and shoot mugs trying to steal it.. What happens after they take all that money? Where are they gonna get their blood from then? Enslavement?
The rest of the PIIGS are next. If you have any money in Portugal, Ireland, Italy, Greece, or Spain you need to move it ASAP if you haven't already.
If you own bond funds that are invested in risky European bonds I suggest you move it too.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/debt-crisis-live/9953844/Cyprus-bailout-live.html
correctamundo telemundo cierra del mundo
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-03-26/mindset
Acid Trip
03-26-2013, 02:43 PM
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/debt-crisis-live/9953844/Cyprus-bailout-live.html
correctamundo telemundo cierra del mundo
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-03-26/mindset
I'm not a "cry wolf" kind of guy but this story is out of control.
The Federal Reserve has robbed the American public secretly for years. Robbing us in front of our faces would have a much different reaction, especially with an armed populace like that of the US.
and it will come here too...watch the doj go after anyone and everyone it can using whatever means it can
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-03-25/wealth-tax-contagion-rapidly-spreading-switzerland-cyprus-and-now
I agree it is extreme, but it wont surprise me when I see them try
I cant remember which news paper I was reading this morning but they were saying this could be rolled out thought all of the Euro zone Countries if the crisis continues, I'll try to find it.
Muddy
03-26-2013, 02:46 PM
I cant remember which news paper I was reading this morning but they were saying this could be rolled out thought all of the Euro zone Countries if the crisis continues, I'll try to find it.
The UK is not in the Union, correct?
what diesel bomb said, transcript:
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-03-26/what-dijsselbloem-really-said-full-record-transcript
The UK is not in the Union, correct?
I dont know if that's differentiating between EU and EZ - one's the monetary union, the other's like framework without monetary union...england was wise enough to stay out of the monetary union, but they still have exposure.
We are not in the Euro zone we kept our own currency but a huge chunk of our trading is with the Euro zone countries so the impact on the UK will be huge, there is already talk of us going into a triple dip recession. :wha:
Muddy
03-26-2013, 02:53 PM
We need the Doctor to fix this..
Jezter
03-26-2013, 03:36 PM
The rest of the PIIGS are next. If you have any money in Portugal, Ireland, Italy, Greece, or Spain you need to move it ASAP if you haven't already.
If you own bond funds that are invested in risky European bonds I suggest you move it too.
Finland's money is in all of those countries.
Oh so the Eu wants to grab everybodys money now?
You guys wonder why us Americans cherish our guns...
Yeah cuz guns solve everything and war's totally cheap and makes the world a better place... :roll:
We are not in the Euro zone we kept our own currency but a huge chunk of our trading is with the Euro zone countries so the impact on the UK will be huge, there is already talk of us going into a triple dip recession. :wha:
Yaay! One more country to give our money to! :cheerlead:
So there's Germany, Holland and Finland who still have their own money. :lol:
Yaay! One more country to give our money to! :cheerlead:
So there's Germany, Holland and Finland who still have their own money. :lol:
You're kidding right? We are so busy 'giving' to Europe and other countries that we can barely suppost our own.
Muddy
03-26-2013, 03:42 PM
Yeah cuz guns solve everything and war's totally cheap and makes the world a better place... :roll:
Fuck yeah! Now you got it! :dance:
http://i.imgur.com/f2yTjjd.jpg
Yeah cuz guns solve everything and war's totally cheap and makes the world a better place... :roll:
nobody is saying war is cheap. and us civilians having guns is protecting us from the government waging war on us, and protecting ourselves against criminals.
an AR is way cheaper than having your house mugged.
Jezter
03-26-2013, 04:43 PM
Yeah I still don't see how the guns help with the money situation... and you guys are way way way too paranoid.
And for as long as the Army has missiles, tanks, choppers and airforce, I don't think your AR can hold on for too long (If you are afraid of your own country turning against you that is). Just saying...but hey, be proud of your guns if it makes you happy.
Muddy
03-26-2013, 04:45 PM
Yeah I still don't see how the guns help with the money situation... and you guys are way way way too paranoid.
And for as long as the Army has missiles, tanks, choppers and airforce, I don't think your AR can hold on for too long. Just saying...but hey, be proud of your guns if it makes you happy.
You think our army made up of Americans will kill American civilians?
PorkChopSandwiches
03-26-2013, 04:49 PM
You think our army made up of Americans will kill American civilians?
Sure
Jezter
03-26-2013, 04:50 PM
You think our army made up of Americans will kill American civilians?
Isn't this what you are afraid of? Isn't this why you are so crazy about stockpiling guns and ammo? Or against who you do that? Goverment officials? How is that going to be solved with guns? Kill 'em all? What is that going to then solve? And aren't you as an American killing fellow Americans with your guns too if all hell breaks loose like the war and chaos mongers love to predict and preach...and if you are armed to the teeth, ready to kill then doesn't that make you a rebellion fighter and not so much a civilian (this is again if you are afraid that your own country will turn against you and a war breaks loose)?
it makes us ready to be The Rebellion if need be. we dont want it, but...plan for contingency. make sure you plans for something include the worst possible case scenarios. I'd rather brandish a weapon and keep my shit than get terrorized and thieved.
Acid Trip
03-26-2013, 05:11 PM
We are all supposed to be armed in the event the government "of the people, by the people, for the people" no longer services the people. At that time we will have the 2nd Revolutionary War and create a new government.
There will be people who stand in the way of the 2nd Revolution and those people will be killed. Since our soldiers swear an oath to the Constitution (not the politicians or their higher ups) they will be on the Constitutional side (aka the winning side).
PorkChopSandwiches
03-26-2013, 05:22 PM
We would hope
Jezter
03-26-2013, 05:22 PM
it makes us ready to be The Rebellion if need be. we dont want it, but...plan for contingency. make sure you plans for something include the worst possible case scenarios. I'd rather brandish a weapon and keep my shit than get terrorized and thieved.
I can understand that. :tup:
We are all supposed to be armed in the event the government "of the people, by the people, for the people" no longer services the people. At that time we will have the 2nd Revolutionary War and create a new government.
There will be people who stand in the way of the 2nd Revolution and those people will be killed. Since our soldiers swear an oath to the Constitution (not the politicians or their higher ups) they will be on the Constitutional side (aka the winning side).
As I can understand this, but I am sorry if I have a hard time believing the Army will be on the Constitutional side... I just really doubt that. If they were, then there would not be much of a war would there. It'd be rather quick and clean take over then.
Lets just hope none of that ever comes true. :tup:
well, that is why one of obama's criteria for appointment to top general positions now is how they feel about shooting at civilians. while there may be some higher ups that would order it, I believe that the vast majority of the lower and mid ranks would not follow such clearly unconstitutional orders.
Jezter
03-26-2013, 05:33 PM
well, that is why one of obama's criteria for appointment to top general positions now is how they feel about shooting at civilians. while there may be some higher ups that would order it, I believe that the vast majority of the lower and mid ranks would not follow such clearly unconstitutional orders.
Well I hope no one would ever shoot civilians. In any war, in any country. I just don't think any soldier does that and any commander would give such orders. It is just that if you shoot first and they shoot back, are you a civilian anymore? It is like if a woman hit you and you were not allowed to hit back thing...
Acid Trip
03-26-2013, 05:36 PM
Well I hope no one would ever shoot civilians. In any war, in any country. I just don't think any soldier does that and any commander would give such orders. It is just that if you shoot first and they shoot back, are you a civilian anymore? It is like if a woman hit you and you were not allowed to hit back thing...
Why would we be shooting at the military if our grievances are with the politicians? That would be totally unproductive.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XMU6WZzOkck
Jezter
03-26-2013, 05:39 PM
Why would we be shooting at the military if our grievances are with the politicians? That would be totally unproductive.
That is what I asked before... but like I said, it just seems like you are all going for all out civil war there in all the war and scare mongering. So I guess you'd be shooting at soldiers.
If your grievances are with politicians, then what is the guns for then...like I asked there before. Anyway...it has again come to this talk. I know Im alone vs. the rest of you so I admit my defeat already. Thank you.
Muddy
03-26-2013, 05:41 PM
Also I need my guns because of all the out of control Djangos running around..
redred
03-26-2013, 05:49 PM
Also I need my guns because of all the out of control Djangos running around..
worried your girl is going to come home as one as a "friend" :lol:
PorkChopSandwiches
03-26-2013, 05:51 PM
http://i.imgur.com/sAjf5kS.jpg
Muddy
03-26-2013, 05:55 PM
worried your girl is going to come home as one as a "friend" :lol:
More worried about one trying to steal me gold..
http://i.imgur.com/GZj1W2Y.jpg
Muddy
03-26-2013, 05:56 PM
Sorry, one more..
http://i.imgur.com/mzYewif.jpg
PorkChopSandwiches
03-26-2013, 05:59 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XMU6WZzOkck
:lol: Nice example based on Finland moving to Communism
"Countries like Finland are the model for progressive socialism that leads to communism "
I'm waiting for Jez to go "but I dont know what you're talking about, its just fine over here" :razz:
Jezter
03-26-2013, 06:13 PM
I'm waiting for Jez to go "but I dont know what you're talking about, its just fine over here" :razz:
But I don't know what you're talking about, it's just fine over here.
PorkChopSandwiches
03-26-2013, 06:14 PM
:rofl: Brilliant
:lol: that's the objective
http://www.zerohedge.com/contributed/2013-03-28/10-40-now-80-confiscation-scheme
The news coming out of Cyprus only gets worse.
It was bad enough that the political class even promoted the idea of STEALING depositors’ savings. But now we’re finding out that they lied time and again about how much they’d take.
Initially the plan in Cyprus was the following:
Simply TAKING 6.75% of ALL savings accounts up to the official insurance limit of €100,000[/*]
A 9.9% levy (THEFT) on all deposits above the official insurance limit of €100,000.[/*]
The idea was put to a vote by the Cyprus Government, which rejected it. However, the facts remain that this idea WAS suggested. In fact, the original proposal from Germany and IMF was even more dramatic:
Cyprus state broadcaster CyBC reported on Saturday that German Finance Minister actually entered the Eurogroup meeting on Friday proposing a 40 percent haircut on Cypriot bank accounts. Sarris stated on Saturday that this had also been the proposal of the International Monetary Fund.
Sarris stated in Brussels that in view of the threat from the European Central Bank for banks in Cyprus to shut down and chaos to ensue, the increase in interest taxation and the haircut to bank accounts became necessary. “A disorderly default, that was a genuine possibility, has been averted,” he said.
http://ekathimerini.com/4dcgi/_w_articles_wsite2_1_16/03/2013_488169
Please reread that first paragraph: Germany and the IMF wanted to take 40% of all depositors’ accounts. Imagine nearly half of your savings being simply TAKEN one day to bail out a bank. That’s what Germany and the IMF proposed.
And we now find out that it could be far worse than even that:
Cyprus's finance minister said Tuesday that large deposit holders at Cyprus Popular Bank PCL (CPB.CP), the island's second biggest lender, could face losses of as much as 80% on their deposits as the government moves to wind down its operations.
Speaking in a television interview with state broadcaster RIC, Michalis Sarris indicated that it could also take years before those depositors see any of their money returned.
"Realistically, very little will be returned," Mr. Sarris said.
http://www.foxbusiness.com/news/2013/03/26/cyprus-finance-minister-uninsured-laiki-depositors-could-face-80-haircut/#ixzz2OqctR6pb
So… first it’s 10% on savings about €100,000… then we find out actually 40% was proposed… and NOW they reveal that realistically it could be as much as 80%.
As a quick aside, anyone who believes this could never happen in the US should consider that John Corzine stole over $1 billion worth of client funds during MF Global’s collapse in the US. Corzine is not in jail and in fact remains one of the most connected financial elites in the US. Indeed, NO ONE went to jail for MF Global’s theft.
There can be little doubt that European elites took note of the MF Global case and believed a similar idea could be foisted upon the European public during extreme times of Crisis. The only difference between MF Global and Cyprus is that in the former case the funds that were stolen were invested in commodity futures and other securities whereas in Cyprus they were savings.
Investors take note: a major development is at hand. As bankrupt nations and banks continue to spiral downward there will be more and more desperate attempts to plug the holes in their balance sheets by any means necessary. And it will be a LOT more than they claim,
The idea of confiscating savings is now on the table. And under an extreme enough crisis, this idea could indeed be implemented: the proposal will likely be “you, the people of this nation can choose…we can take 7% of your savings and your bank remains afloat or you lose everything.” Be prepared for this.
Acid Trip
03-28-2013, 07:09 PM
“you, the people of this nation can choose…we can take 7% of your savings and your bank remains afloat or you lose everything.”
I'll take "Lose Everything" for $2000 Alex.
The answer is.... You're right, we bluffed. The world is not coming to an end.
"What the government will would never say"?
Correct!
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-04-05/investigators-hit-brick-wall-bank-cyprus-ceo-hard-drives-wiped
bank execs in cyprus wiped their hard drives...fkn jail 'em for it
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