Help me pick a car

[Hal-9000]

I know we have a mechanical section. I wanted this in general for a broader opinion, thanks.


I'm looking for a compact car, not a sub-compact and not a mid-sized sedan. I'm going to use it mainly for commuting daily and driving around the city at night. I want something that's fuel efficient and also handles well. It will be subjected to winter driving from October until May, so things like suspension, braking and traction are important.

I've already ruled out the new Ford Focus, Toyota Corolla, Mazda 3, Chevy Cruze, Dodge Dart and Nissan Sentra for various reasons. Everything from buyer opinions on the net, to price, to people I know that have bought one of the cars mentioned.

Up here, compact cars start at 18000 and go up to about 26000 depending on what you want. My needs are few. I want air conditioning, automatic transmission and a radio :lol:
I don't care about info-tainment crap, GPS, USB plugins, toaster plugins, syncing phones to my car.

So to recap:

About 20000-22000
Automatic trans
Decent handling, good on fuel
Sedan, not coupe


I've narrowed it down to 2 cars; The 2013 Honda Civic and the 2013 Hyundai Elantra. Next post I'll tell you why.

[Hal-9000]

In the USA, Hyundai's come with a 10 year standard warranty. Best warranty in the biz. Up here in Canada, the basic warranty is chopped to 5 years for some reason on the same car.5 years also for the powertrain.

Hondas come with the standard 3 year bumper to bumper, 5 year powertrain, 5 year rust warranty.


Honda has a good reputation using the same engine and powertrain for years, supposed to be reliable.
Hyundai's reputation is spotty.

Honda has 4 wheel independent suspension, Hyundai has independent front and torsion bar or single axle back.
Hyundai has 4 wheel disc brakes, Honda has disc on the front, drums on the back.

Hyundai has a 6 speed automatic transmission.
Honda has a 5 speed automatic transmission.

Honda 140 hp
Hyundai 148 hp

Both cars are similar in both style and weight. Honda had to 'refresh' their 2012 model because of complaints. They put more sound deadening materials and thicker glass in the 2013 car, as well as tightened up the suspension. The overall ride in a Honda is supposed to be one the most stable and comfortable, with little body roll on corners. The interior was redone with different materials too.

The Hyundai Elantra is supposed to have a nice cabin, has been compared to larger sedans for comfort and feel.

I'm going to show you one thing below in pictures, that may be a make or break selling point on one of the cars. DGX says I'll get used to it....:lol:

[Muddy]

Honda..no brainer

[Hal-9000]

so hal's summary is this...

warranty - Hyundai
reliability - Honda
braking - Hyundai
suspension - Honda
horsepower - Hyundai
transmission - Hyundai (6 gear auto vs 5 gear)
overall handling - Honda
interior comfort, instruments - Hyundai
gut instinct - Honda

[DemonGeminiX]

Man, go take a test drive.

:shakehead:

[Hal-9000]

Honda..no brainer

If anyone knows people with a 2013 version of either car, ask them what they like or don't like about it....thanks!

[Muddy]

Just buy it and ask later like i do.. :mrgreen:

[Hal-9000]

Man, go take a test drive.

:shakehead:


bitch be patient! http://i.imgur.com/wNe3zeS.gif







I'm getting there....:lol:

[Richard Cranium]

http://thechive.files.wordpress.com/2013/07/doing-it-right-29.jpg?w=500&h=563

[Hal-9000]

I called one of the Honda places, they were eager to schedule a test drive, but "were having a private sale that day". Still they were polite, just wouldn't tell me what the private thing was all about.

I called the Hyundai place and was treated like shite on the phone. After speaking to two people, the third person made it seem like I was getting a blowjob and a free gallon tub of Chunky Monkey for having the privilege of driving one of their cars....four days from the time of my call.

So I haven't sat in either or had a chance to redline the bitches on roads in my city. I know it's the deciding factor...I have to spend at least 3 hours commuting in it daily, don't want an ass-pinching seat or poor visibility...

I've never driven a car as small as these two.....pictures next!

[DemonGeminiX]

bitch be patient! http://i.imgur.com/wNe3zeS.gif







I'm getting there....:lol:

No, man. Go do a test drive with both cars. Better yet, go test drive a few of the cars you cut off your list already. Your going completely by what you read/word of mouth and you haven't even sat in one of the damn things yet. If you're gonna sit in one of the damn things, you better make sure that you're going to not feel uncomfortable behind the wheel.

And you'll get used to the digital readout on the Honda, dammit!

:lol:



P.S. Have you looked at the Scion TC? Or are they not available in Canada? I wanted one so bad when I was looking for a car back in '08 but a few factors prevented me from picking one up.

P.P.S. I still can't believe that you're going for the Civic and other smaller cars. I'd figure as tall as you are, you'd need the Accord.

[Hal-9000]

I really don't care what a car looks like on the outside.

I do care about visibility and not squishing backseat riders. Both of these cars have generous backseats for compact cars.




Hyundai Elantra

http://i.imgur.com/gO7WLQH.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/BunKmvD.jpg



Honda Civic

http://i.imgur.com/0BslqfX.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/o87lKT7.jpg

[DemonGeminiX]

From what I remember, Hyundai's generally feel on the smaller side when you're driving/riding in it. I'm used to the Civic, and from what I remember five years ago, Scion tC's are fun as hell to drive.

[Hal-9000]

I'm partial to the Honda because of the cool hood scoop sorta thingy :lol: The 2013 has sloped the windshield down to a greater degree and also extended the dash inside. Some guy from Motortrend or Edmunds said it puts you pretty low...


Now here's the make or break moment...like DGX the wanker spoiled above, the Honda has a two tiered dash with a digital speedometer readout. Not sure if I want to see a constantly changing value (49, 52, 67, 42) on the top ledge of the dashboard. The Honda also has a layered look all throughout the cabin, like four guys designed the dashboard and all of them lived in different parts of the country :lol:



Conversely the Hyundai interior looks spiffy and well appointed...but just plain weird :lol: I'm an analog guy so the Hyundai dash seems more pleasing..



Honda dash (huge tachometer on the automatic's lower tier, brilliant...)


http://i.imgur.com/M4waTyB.jpg




and the Hyundai's dash



http://i.imgur.com/DjK5vYr.jpg

[DemonGeminiX]

You can reduce the light of the instruments in the Civic... just saying. That Hyundai interior looks incredibly small.

Check out the tC.

And go for a damn test drive.

[Hal-9000]

No, man. Go do a test drive with both cars. Better yet, go test drive a few of the cars you cut off your list already. Your going completely by what you read/word of mouth and you haven't even sat in one of the damn things yet. If you're gonna sit in one of the damn things, you better make sure that you're going to not feel uncomfortable behind the wheel.

And you'll get used to the digital readout on the Honda, dammit!

:lol:



P.S. Have you looked at the Scion TC? Or are they not available in Canada? I wanted one so bad when I was looking for a car back in '08 but a few factors prevented me from picking one up.

P.P.S. I still can't believe that you're going for the Civic and other smaller cars. I'd figure as tall as you are, you'd need the Accord.


When I read about the Ford Focus's double clutch electronic automatic transmission failing, when parking or trying to pass on the highway, by over 100 buyers....Imma avoiding it :lol: I don't care how fun or sporty or responsive the car is supposed to be. Also, price is a factor so if I have to go up one trim level to get something like remote keyless entry on a Mazda 3, same thing...26 thousand bucks is out of my range. Keep in mind our trim levels and prices are different up here, so if you want air conditioning for example or something lame like intermittent wipers, you end up throwing another 2500 at the car. Guy at work bought a Cruze..he said he loved it at first for the ride and 'solid feel', hates it 3 months after buying it because of the engine noise and his seats hurt his ass if he drives it for over an hour :lol:

[Hal-9000]

You can reduce the light of the instruments in the Civic... just saying. That Hyundai interior looks incredibly small.

Check out the tC.

And go for a damn test drive.


Two landing strips beside that digital number, that constantly change from green to blue depending on how you're driving.


:lol: are they trying to torture me???

[Hal-9000]

From what I remember, Hyundai's generally feel on the smaller side when you're driving/riding in it. I'm used to the Civic, and from what I remember five years ago, Scion tC's are fun as hell to drive.

The Subaru Imprezza became a last minute dark horse in the race last night....

All wheel drive is standard on all models and the Canadian in me says - Hell yeah. Good example of our advertising - Imprezza is a comact car that starts at 18000. Make it automatic, it's 21000. Give yourself air conditioning and it's 23000. Go on a damn dealer website in my city and they're 27-29000 :x :x :x

[Hal-9000]

I should just be a chick and say -

I'll pick the blue one, it looks cute :)

[Hal-9000]

tiny steering wheels on both cars...Holy Asian hands Batman!


and all those buttons on the steering wheels....I don't want to dial my Auntie while I'm pulling 5 G's going around a corner!

[Hal-9000]

true story

One of my Uncles had an old Cadillac, one of the first with a chip and a service engine warning light that applied to multiple causes. The light kept coming on, he took it back to the dealer something like 5 times. Each time the car was deemed completely roadworthy, all systems working well. The last time he got it back, the service manager had placed a small piece of tape over the indicator so my Uncle wouldn't have to see it :lol:

[DemonGeminiX]

I'm looking at Honda's Canada website and it looks like all the trim levels are the same, except for the 'Touring', whatever the hell that is. I'd stay away from that and the Si. Personally, I'd go for the EX. I have one of those now. Have about 6 months left on payments.

No offense, but your postal codes are weird. The Honda website required it for me to look at your trim levels. T1X 1E1? What the hell? :lol:

[DemonGeminiX]

Do you guys seriously need those engine block heaters?

[Hal-9000]

I'm looking at Honda's Canada website and it looks like all the trim levels are the same, except for the 'Touring', whatever the hell that is. I'd stay away from that and the Si. Personally, I'd go for the EX. I have one of those now. Have about 6 months left on payments.

No offense, but your postal codes are weird. The Honda website required it for me to look at your trim levels. T1X 1E1? What the hell? :lol:

Ya man 6 digits, alternating numbers and letters....how do you think your zip codes look to us? :lol: 90210....really?

I built one at the Honda Canada site. We lost a trim level so no DX, just LX, EX, and fancy shmancy EX touring or whatever...the LX is the only one in my price range.

Great example though and thanks for taking the time. Build an EX automatic, add the 162 dollar un-included floor mats (twats :lol:) and give me your number. Then add 2000 to that because dealer price is way up from the Honda Canada site.

Actually I'll do it, brb


Oh...block heaters are necessary if you do what I do. Park outside a building for 9 hours in the winter every day. Keep in mind some of our days are -20 and worse...with wind, some cars don't start after that. Most Canucks carry around jumper cables in their cars like you may carry around a package of Kleenex :lol:

Some buildings have plugins, so you plug into the block heater and your car always starts. I have no plug ins where I work and most commercial places don't.

[Hal-9000]

so here's my pretty blue EX Civic

getting close to 25000 only adding floormats, no extended warranty etc


http://i.imgur.com/rVxGcD4.jpg



I compared the LX to EX trim....not much difference other than 15 inch or 16 inch tires and the backup camera in the EX...which I really would want. You guys get the backup camera standard on all trims

[Hal-9000]

Hey DGX,

I heard that Civics don't have automatic headlights or intermittent wipers....and the 2013 doesn't have a trunk button on the fob


:lol: first world problems I know, but does your car have these options?

[DemonGeminiX]

They're phasing out the DX. You don't want the DX anyway. Remember The Hunt For Red October? When the ship captain said that they'd have to strip down the helicopter so that it'd be nothing more than a flying gas can? That's what I think of the DX.

So I guess you guys don't really need air conditioning. I never thought of that before.

Actually, if we went by current exchange rates, I'd only be paying around $1000 less for the same car.

I went and built it on the American site. EX, Auto Trans, All season floormats, we don't have the option for the engine block heater... MSRP $21,747. With your block heater, it would be closer to $22k, obviously. Dealerships automatically jack up the price, so I'm looking at $24,500-$25k or more. Might be able to get them down to $23,750 or so. I'd walk if I couldn't get them below $24500.

LX, same features $19,897. Again, I'd walk if I couldn't get them below $22000.

[KevinD]

Barf

[DemonGeminiX]

Hey DGX,

I heard that Civics don't have automatic headlights or intermittent wipers....and the 2013 doesn't have a trunk button on the fob


:lol: first world problems I know, but does your car have these options?

I don't have auto headlights, but I believe the Accords do. One control, no big deal. Intermittent wipers? I think that's standard nowadays.

And I do have a trunk button on my fob. Those are generally standard. Keep in mind, mine's a 2006, so whatever I have, it might have been upgraded in the past 7 years.

Seriously, looking between the 2 sites, there really isn't that much of a difference. Besides the extreme cold tech that you guys have...

[DemonGeminiX]

Barf

Hey. The dude wants a Civic. Let him be.

[Hal-9000]

They're phasing out the DX. You don't want the DX anyway. Remember The Hunt For Red October? When the ship captain said that they'd have to strip down the helicopter so that it'd be nothing more than a flying gas can? That's what I think of the DX.

So I guess you guys don't really need air conditioning. I never thought of that before.

Actually, if we went by current exchange rates, I'd only be paying around $1000 less for the same car.

I went and built it on the American site. EX, Auto Trans, All season floormats, we don't have the option for the engine block heater... MSRP $21,747. With your block heater, it would be closer to $22k, obviously. Dealerships automatically jack up the price, so I'm looking at $24,500-$25k or more. Might be able to get them down to $23,750 or so. I'd walk if I couldn't get them below $24500.

LX, same features $19,897. Again, I'd walk if I couldn't get them below $22000.


Yes we do need air conditioning....were kind of a 4 season country up here. Example will be tomorrow...car sits in lot for 9 hours and it will get up to about 25-27C or 81F. Have you ever sat in traffic for 2 hours in that? :lol: I know you guys endure much worse, but yes air conditioning is needed, not vital, but needed. I didn't use mine today and was a sweaty mess when I got home tonight.

Never added the block heater on mine...yes the prices seem similar for both countries...


I just looked at the LX/EX comparison....for exactly 2000 dollars I get 16 inch tires, 6 speaker vs 4 speaker radio, moonroof, intermittent wipers, auto climate control and the backup camera

[Hal-9000]

Barf

well then buy me a fookin Mustang with 300 horses J.R.!!!! :lol:


I gotta roll with what I can afford..

[DemonGeminiX]

Yeah, but the moonroof fucking rocks. :lol:


Seriously, I fell in love with it when I saw it. :lol:

[Hal-9000]

I was looking at a Kia Soul...

and then slapped myself back into reality.....Kia makes a lot of chick cars IMO

[KevinD]

I was more commenting on the color, lol. Didnt come out right. Believe it or not, though i prefer big 3 products, i have nothing against imports. Mostly i just hate front wheel drive cars.

[Hal-9000]

Yeah, but the moonroof fucking rocks. :lol:


Seriously, I fell in love with it when I saw it. :lol:

that would be one feature I couldn't care about :lol:

why, so I see the snow accumulation inside my car too?

[KevinD]

Dude, hal i totally get you on getting what you can afford.

[DemonGeminiX]

that would be one feature I couldn't care about :lol:

why, so I see the snow accumulation inside my car too?

:hand:

You can drive with it open for at least one month out of the year.

[Hal-9000]

I was more commenting on the color, lol. Didnt come out right. Believe it or not, though i prefer big 3 products, i have nothing against imports. Mostly i just hate front wheel drive cars.


well the Focus, the Cruze and the Dart are my big 3 picks...and each one is new enough (Dart is Italian + Dodge) to have reliability problems already....and the Focus and Dart are supposed to rock in terms of handling and acceleration...

I can't go mid-level on the big 3...too much money :|

[Hal-9000]

anyone hear or know about Subaru cars?

the all wheel drive ones get rave reviews up here....of course in snow it's all about your tires and your driving habits...but all wheel drive can get you outta some sticky spots

[KevinD]

Tbh, too much money is why i fixed my truck back instead of buying a new one, i cant see 35k for a new nonloaded truck.

[DemonGeminiX]

I think there's still a stigma against Subaru down here. Every time I'm reminded that they sell cars, I laugh a little.

[KevinD]

I,m not familiar with subaru, other than the wrx sti. I knew the focus had some problems, but didnt know about the dart or the cruze.

[Hal-9000]

I,m not familiar with subaru, other than the wrx sti. I knew the focus had some problems, but didnt know about the dart or the cruze.

yeah and that's a spendy model...wrx sti

dart and cruze both having some growing pains....mostly the new electronic assist programs...but the dart has a hidden compartment under one of the seats so it almost sold me :lol:

[Hal-9000]

I think there's still a stigma against Subaru down here. Every time I'm reminded that they sell cars, I laugh a little.

Kia and Hyundai until recently were jokes too...Korean go-carts trying to compete with Honda and Toyota...

last couple of years both makes stepped up their quality and features...Kia's up here come loaded with crap....I wouldn't know as I haven't driven either

[Hal-9000]

I kinda lucked out with my current car....it's a Grand Am, don't laugh..

the only major stuff I've put in has been a fuel pump and they replaced the front struts within 2 months of buying it. Struts were warranty and no fuss...changed the battery once and the serpentine belt once...

I've driven it for 10 years, mostly rush hour commuting and only last year the small stuff started to go. Horn contact is constantly on so I pulled the fuse, no horn. Turning signals are intermittent..I have to punch the hazard lights to activate the turning signals at times...the daylight sensor for the interior dash lights is wonky sometimes...

So I drive with no horn, turning signals that don't work and can't see the dash on overcast days......:lol: I need those things


and also, it's only 140 hp, 4 door mid size sedan, and whether by design or luck, the car is zippy off the line. Where it really chokes is when I'm doing let's say 50 mph, and need to kick it up to pass or go up a slight incline...I stand on the gas pedal and it isn't there for at least 30 seconds..


so yeah....it's at the 10 year mark, time for the powertrain or the front end to go...it's a Pontiac after all :lol:

[Richard Cranium]

I'm thinking aboot a 2013 Ford Police Interceptor Utility, I can get one at state bid price of 22k.
awd, persuit rated, 305hp 25 mpg.


your sister is going to be jealous of your new car buddy..

[Hal-9000]

you sayin Hondas are poofter cars???? :x







well it is DGX's preferred ride after all :lol:

[Hal-9000]

305 hp cop Ford interceptor??



*drools*

[DemonGeminiX]

Hyundai wasn't so much of a joke in my eyes. It was just small.

[Richard Cranium]

its the exploder, basically. I've been playing with the Taurus interceptors, same basic package. pretty tight rides if you like basic.. like rubber instead of carpet kind of basic.

[Hal-9000]

thanks for the chat gentlemen....I found a site that gives me a cool 360 view of car interiors...hundreds of makes


I'm off to pretend I'm sitting in a Lexus

[Hal-9000]

its the exploder, basically. I've been playing with the Taurus interceptors, same basic package. pretty tight rides if you like basic.. like rubber instead of carpet kind of basic.

some new Hyundai's don't come with spare tires and jacks, just puncture foam shit in a can :lol:

read a story about some guy's daughter getting a sidewall blowout and finding out the hard way on the highway.....

[redred]

some new Hyundai's don't come with spare tires and jacks, just puncture foam shit in a can :lol:

read a story about some guy's daughter getting a sidewall blowout and finding out the hard way on the highway.....

honda do the same thing over here ,but i believe you get free roadside cover for 5 years or so to take you to a tyre shop

[redred]

also don't worry about the digi dashboard i use to have one and missed it when i sold the car

[Teh One Who Knocks]

http://i.imgur.com/R7Z9zYu.jpg

[redred]

http://i.imgur.com/RrbQxiV.jpg

[Hal-9000]

also don't worry about the digi dashboard i use to have one and missed it when i sold the car

it's just so random :lol:


http://i.imgur.com/7nUOShT.jpg

[DemonGeminiX]

Really, it's perfectly fine. When you steal a glance to check your speed, it's a proper 1 second glance, not a 2 second look. It becomes second nature quickly.

Now go do a TEST DRIVE.

[Hal-9000]

I could pretend I'm piloting a Viper :-k






http://i.imgur.com/5RrvUVX.jpg

[Hal-9000]

BSG Viper, not a Dodge Viper

[Teh One Who Knocks]

Let's just get down to the brass tacks....you could do thousands of hours of research, read a million reviews, and break it down until you come up statistically what you read is the best car in your price range....and you can still get a lemon.

:slap:

Don't discount anything and do like DGX keeps telling you, go test drive them!

[Richard Cranium]

test drive and consumer reports, stfu and buy something already.

[Hal-9000]

Let's just get down to the brass tacks....you could do thousands of hours of research, read a million reviews, and break it down until you come up statistically what you read is the best car in your price range....and you can still get a lemon.

:slap:

Don't discount anything and do like DGX keeps telling you, go test drive them!


:|


that would be an awfully short thread :sad2:

[Hal-9000]

test drive and consumer reports, stfu and buy something already.


:lol:

[Richard Cranium]

Hi buddy.:bye:

[Yt Trash]

My wife has a 2012 Sonata. It's a 4 cylinder , gets about 34 mpg. it's roomy inside and fun to drive. It is fully loaded, but in general after about a year of driving it we are pretty happy and satisfied with overall experience of the car.
I on the other hand, drive a 2004 Civic SI hatchback. It's basically a go cart with a shell. 4 cyl. vtec motor and 5 speed manual. It gets around 35-38 mpg. It's a blast to drive, maybe cause it's manual and has tighter steering and suspension. It's a DD with over 120k miles. I drive 130 miles round trip a day. Having done the ride in both cars, I find the civic more entertaining, and the Hyundai more luxurious.

just my:2cents: .

[Richard Cranium]

http://thechive.files.wordpress.com/2013/07/great-photos-58.jpg?w=500&h=666

[Goofy]

Any reason you want to buy a brand new one? You could pick up a year old ex-demo for 5 or 6k cheaper with barely run-in mileage! Or spend the same money and get a better model :)

[Richard Cranium]

http://www.instablogsimages.com/images/2009/03/19/animal-house-deathmobile_XOW7w_5965.jpg

[Richard Cranium]

http://www.dusttoashes.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/Penis-Art-Car.jpg

[Hal-9000]

My wife has a 2012 Sonata. It's a 4 cylinder , gets about 34 mpg. it's roomy inside and fun to drive. It is fully loaded, but in general after about a year of driving it we are pretty happy and satisfied with overall experience of the car.
I on the other hand, drive a 2004 Civic SI hatchback. It's basically a go cart with a shell. 4 cyl. vtec motor and 5 speed manual. It gets around 35-38 mpg. It's a blast to drive, maybe cause it's manual and has tighter steering and suspension. It's a DD with over 120k miles. I drive 130 miles round trip a day. Having done the ride in both cars, I find the civic more entertaining, and the Hyundai more luxurious.



just my:2cents: .


Thanks YT....130 miles per day, wow

yeah it seems the Hyundais are more comfy and come ahead on stats, but the Civics are a good, well put together car that does a little bit of everything right..

[Hal-9000]

Any reason you want to buy a brand new one? You could pick up a year old ex-demo for 5 or 6k cheaper with barely run-in mileage! Or spend the same money and get a better model :)

warranty mainly...I drive cars for about 10 years and don't like sinking thousands into repairs...over here the cheapest labor is 125/hr without parts

I bought an '03 in January of 04 for my last car and saved a bundle...I can't wait unit Jan next year because I don't want to drive through another winter in my current car..

and if I look at the '12 Civics, it was a bad year...the 13's are supposed to be a refresh of the model because buyers complained so much

[Hal-9000]

http://thechive.files.wordpress.com/2013/07/great-photos-58.jpg?w=500&h=666


rico-9000 :lol:

[Noilly Pratt]

I'd make a phone call to your local rental or leasing firms. Often they lease cars to companies on a 3 or a 5 year rotation and you can get a bargain sometimes.

I bought my van at a government auction, and that was great...bought it 3 years ago and now depreciation has now deflated the price down to what I bought it for.

And, don't take stock in a lot of the claims of failures. A lot of North Americans don't maintain their cars and wants them to go forever without an oil change, transmission fluid etc. So, they will fail without any maintenance.

My old van had a known bad transmission, but mine lasted to 300,000kms because I, and the previous owner changed the fluid yearly and I added a cooler to it because I was trailer towing.

I've kept my van until it had nearly 400,000kms, my present car has 350,000+ (odometer stopped 2 years ago) and my old VW Fox I had to 200,000. So, I know how to maintain and keep a car!

My cousin's Hyundai just needed a new transmission and they didn't honour the warranty - they said there was excessive wear and tear in it, so they're fignting.

So, warranties aren't always the greatest, especially if the manufacturer wiggles out of them!

[Hal-9000]

thanks Noilly...I've been reading (listening to the odd person) about newer complaints that aren't caused due to lack of maintenance

ie google 2013 Ford Focus problems

the car handles well and has some jam, but I don't want to buy a new vehicle that has engine problems out of the gate :lol:

[Muddy]

So what did you buy?

[Hal-9000]

I think I'm going to wait until the 2014's arrive...that way I can a get a few bucks off the 2013 or maybe buy a cheap 2014


probably going to go with Honda

[Muddy]

Buying closeouts definitely saves you some bucks.. Keeping in mind Honda doesnt have an issue moving inventory.. It is a Honda, you know..

[Hal-9000]

Yeah they call it built in Honda value...meaning they can churn out crap cars for the next 5 years and people will still buy them from the past reputation...

the Civic is the number one seller in Canada for something like 10 years..