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View Full Version : Editorial: 'Black boxes' are in 96% of new cars



Teh One Who Knocks
07-22-2013, 09:39 PM
And you don't necessarily own what yours record.
USA Today


http://i.imgur.com/3Hb1t8I.jpg

If you happen to read every word of your new car owner's manual, then you already know that your car may be monitoring your driving habits.

If you're like most people on the planet, though, it will come as a surprise that a box the size of a deck of cards — called an event data recorder — is on board, tracking your seat belt use, speed, steering, braking and at least a dozen other bits of data. When your air bag deploys, the EDR's memory records a few seconds before, during and after a crash, much like an airliner's "black box."

This a handy tool for analyzing the cause and effect of crashes. It can be used to improve safety technology. But its presence is not entirely benign. The data have many other potential uses — for insurance companies, lawyers and police, for instance — and it's up for grabs.

The EDR is the only part of your car that you don't necessarily own. Just 13 states have laws on the issue, and fewer — Oregon and North Dakota, for example — offer strong privacy protection. The devices, part of a car's electronic system, are almost impossible to remove.

Last month, the federal government proposed that all new passenger vehicles be equipped with the devices. But 96% of new cars already have them, as do at least 150 million older vehicles. American makers, led by GM and Ford, have been putting them in cars since the mid-1990s.

What the federal government ought to do is ensure that car buyers get prominent disclosure before they buy and that privacy protections are in place. But the trend is in the opposite direction.

In 2006, when the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration first proposed regulating black boxes, it rejected calls for pre-purchase disclosure and opted for requiring a few obscure paragraphs in the owner's manual. It gave car makers six years to comply.

The agency says it has no authority to regulate privacy. But it has not sought any, nor alerted Congress to the need for legislation.

The chaotic results are apparent in courts and in high-profile crashes. In a 2011 crash, Massachusetts Lt. Gov. Timothy Murray, who said he was belted in and driving the speed limit, was contradicted by an EDR. The government-owned Ford Crown Victoria's recorder found that the car was traveling more than 100 mph and that Murray wasn't belted in.

OK, so comeuppance for a politician doesn't sound so bad. But what about your own car? Should police be able to grab that data without a warrant? Should insurers access it so they can raise your rates?

Courts are all over the place. Two New York courts have ruled warrants are not needed. Many prosecutors, not surprisingly, argue that drivers have no expectation of privacy on public roads.

In California, an appeals court tossed out a drunken-driving manslaughter conviction because police failed to get a warrant for the box.

Proponents of black boxes argue that they aren't all that intrusive. Maybe so, today. But technology never stands still. GPS in cellphones was originally advanced as a safety feature so callers to 9-1-1 could be quickly located. But location identification is now used in all sorts of third-party apps. People's movements are easily tracked. It wouldn't take much to tweak EDRs for equally broad uses. They could record more. Some insurers are offering customers a cousin of the EDR, which tracks how a car is driven over a long period, so volunteer participants may qualify for lower rates.

Two things are certain. Black boxes are here to stay. And without strict rules of the road, they are less a boon to safety than an intrusive hitchhiker.

deebakes
07-22-2013, 09:40 PM
this pisses me off :x

DemonGeminiX
07-23-2013, 12:35 AM
Is there a law forbidding their removal by the car owner?

:-k

deebakes
07-23-2013, 01:27 AM
probably :x

Teh One Who Knocks
07-23-2013, 02:07 AM
Is there a law forbidding their removal by the car owner?

:-k


The EDR is the only part of your car that you don't necessarily own. Just 13 states have laws on the issue, and fewer — Oregon and North Dakota, for example — offer strong privacy protection. The devices, part of a car's electronic system, are almost impossible to remove.

I would assume so

KevinD
07-23-2013, 03:05 AM
Me and a couple others were warning about this years ago at AS. I remember most not believing it.
Here's another tidbit: all of y'all who have GPS, Sat radio, OnStar, toll booth tags, etc, etc, are getting tracked constantly in cities.

KevinD
07-23-2013, 03:06 AM
Is there a law forbidding their removal by the car owner?

:-k

My truck no longer has one...Just saying...

deebakes
07-23-2013, 03:40 AM
:police:

deebakes
07-23-2013, 03:41 AM
http://i41.tinypic.com/2ntl5kw.gif

Hal-9000
07-23-2013, 08:30 AM
So how does it record a few seconds before, during and after a crash? That would imply that it's constantly recording and somehow dumping all info until a catastrophic failure occurs..

Richard Cranium
07-23-2013, 12:29 PM
That's a Bingo, Hal.


Weve got them on the big red trucks too.. I loves me some big brother.. Only gonna get worse.

KevinD
07-23-2013, 01:05 PM
Hal, they work almost identical to the "black boxes" on airplanes. They are constantly recording all the parameter sets, but the memory (for now) only saves the last few seconds. There has been, and still is talk in certain areas of having the boxes be capable of transmitting data to roadside receivers, very much similar to what goes on with cell phones. This way, your vehicle can be monitored "real time" If you doubt, look up Gasoline road tax proposals.

Southern Belle
07-23-2013, 02:03 PM
We went on a 10 day road trip beginning on the 4th. I used my phone and hubby used his Garmin to get directions. I often thought about the fact that somewhere, our movements could be tracked or recorded. We drove my 2006 HHR since believe it or not, it's more reliable than his 2011 Malibu. I don't know if the HHR has one or not.

KevinD
07-23-2013, 02:20 PM
It does.

Southern Belle
07-23-2013, 02:23 PM
hmmmm.

KevinD
07-23-2013, 02:32 PM
If you would like to read a bit more, here's some links. In the grand scheme of things, at this point, there's nothing at all to be worried about. I just don't like them.

From 2006
http://autos.aol.com/article/car-black-box/

2012:
http://www.foxnews.com/leisure/2012/12/07/black-boxes-in-cars-raise-privacy-concerns/

Southern Belle
07-23-2013, 02:35 PM
Thanks for these. Like you, I just don't like the thought of it. And after what we've heard the last few weeks about our own government's ability to spy on us, I like it even less.

KevinD
07-23-2013, 02:46 PM
TBH ( puts on sertes hat) the black boxes in your car are the least of things to worry about. Your computer and cell phone are at the top. :lol:

Southern Belle
07-23-2013, 02:46 PM
Even data recorder. I think it's under the console in the HHR.