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View Full Version : Harvard study proves gun-grabbers’ argument dead wrong



Teh One Who Knocks
08-29-2013, 12:12 PM
Joe Saunders - BizPac Review


Will a Harvard man listen to Harvard research?

Probably not, if the Harvard man is Barack Obama, and what Harvard’s saying flies in the face of liberal pieties – and misconceptions and lies – about gun ownership, gun violence and gun control in the United States.

Like the recently reported CDC study about gun violence Obama commissioned himself, the message to gun grabbers is clear:

They’re wrong.

A Harvard study released in the spring – to virtually no media attention – focused on the prevalence of gun ownership in the United States versus those strict gun-control countries in Europe the left is so fond of talking about.

It was called, with disarming bluntness, “Would banning firearms reduce murder and suicide?”

Its answer was: “No.”

Looking at historical patterns in the United States from the colonial and post-colonial days, and in Europe going back to the time before guns were even invented, two Harvard researchers came to a clear conclusion:

“Nations with higher gun ownership rates … do not have higher murder or suicide rates than those with lower gun ownership.”

That’s just a fact, even in those European countries the U.S. left is so fond of citing.

Heavily armed Norwegians, where gun ownership is highest in Western Europe, have the continent’s lowest homicide rate, researchers Don Kates and Gary Mauser wrote.

Russia, where the civilian population was virtually disarmed by the communist government for 80 years, has one of the highest homicide rates in Europe – and one four times higher than in the United States.

In the United States, homicide rates were relatively low, despite periods when firearms were widely available – the colonial era, when Americans were the world’s most heavily armed population, the post-Civil War years, when the country was awash in surplus guns and filled with men trained to use them.

Homicide rates in the United States didn’t increase dramatically until the 1960s and ‘70s, which correlated with a rise in gun purchases, but Kates and Mauser point out that fear of crime could just as easily have sparked a rise in gun purchases, rather than more guns causing more crime.

And today?

Communities where gun-ownership rates are highest are where the homicide rates are lowest, Kates and Mauser wrote:

“Where firearms are most dense violent crime rates are lowest, and where guns are least dense violent crime rates are highest.”

That’s not what the gun grabbers want to hear.

And the two researchers know it. In their conclusion, they launched a pre-emptive defense, quoting another researcher who found similarly unwelcome (to the left) results when he studied crime in the United States versus gun-restrictive Canada:

“If you are surprised by [our] finding[s], so [are we]. [We] did not begin this research with any intent to ‘exonerate’ hand‐ guns, but there it is — a negative finding, to be sure, but a negative finding is nevertheless a positive contribution. It directs us where not to aim public health resources.”

The study takes up 45 pages in the spring issue of the Harvard Journal of Law and Public Policy.

This description of it takes up up 541 words.

But when it comes to gun-grabbers, the whole thing can be summed up in two:

You’re. Wrong.

Muddy
08-29-2013, 12:22 PM
As long as we have an unruly urban population, the general public needs access to guns.

PorkChopSandwiches
08-29-2013, 04:00 PM
and even if we dont, we still do. We will still have an unruly government

Hal-9000
08-29-2013, 07:49 PM
:lol: about the government comment...

so next time your president makes an unpopular decision are a group of civilians going to march on the White House and get into a blazing gun battle?

good luck with that..

Muddy
08-29-2013, 07:52 PM
:lol: about the government comment...

so next time your president makes an unpopular decision are a group of civilians going to march on the White House and get into a blazing gun battle?

good luck with that..

No, but the way they are heading they may come to your house for using the "N" word online... At a certain point people are going to say 'no more'.. I know you think it's a joke but it's true... Our govt. is corrupt and has done some really questionable things in the past to it's citizens.. We are not like you guys in that regard.

Hal-9000
08-29-2013, 07:57 PM
yeah I shouldn't have phrased it with a smiley...I've never understood why people always refer to that when justifying gun ownership...

I can't see the situation in my mind... (bunch of civilians with guns vs the government)


to me, the shit has to hit the fan pretty hard to justify that particular reasoning for private gun ownership...that part of the constitution was written after you guys liberated yourself from England 300 years ago....not sure it actually applies to you anymore

Muddy
08-29-2013, 08:06 PM
yeah I shouldn't have phrased it with a smiley...I've never understood why people always refer to that when justifying gun ownership...

I can't see the situation in my mind... (bunch of civilians with guns vs the government)


to me, the shit has to hit the fan pretty hard to justify that particular reasoning for private gun ownership...that part of the constitution was written after you guys liberated yourself from England 300 years ago....not sure it actually applies to you anymore

It does though.. it's all about personal freedom down here.. And it is proven (see above) that with our criminal element we need the weapons to keep them(criminals) from friggin killing all us honest people..

Hal-9000
08-29-2013, 08:10 PM
It does though.. it's all about personal freedom down here.. And it is proven (see above) that with our criminal element we need the weapons to keep them(criminals) from friggin killing all us honest people..

Yeah I get that but the portion I'm talking about is having guns in case the government acts up and starts removing your other rights...


after years of chatting with you guys and seeing some of the shit that goes on down there, I ....almost understand the need for protection from the criminal scum....protection from your own government, not so much. That's why when someone mentions that reason for their right to have a firearm, I admitted think that's a complete stretch for the justification.

Muddy
08-29-2013, 08:13 PM
protection from your own government, not so much. That's why when someone mentions that reason for their right to have a firearm, I admitted think that's a complete stretch for the justification.

Even with all this NSA stuff?

Hal-9000
08-29-2013, 08:34 PM
Even with all this NSA stuff?

I guess you have to play out a real life scenario...let's say your gov creates a mandate and announces whatever...the whatever could be anything, but it's bad enough to incense the population into revolt.

Then what? A Twitter or Facebook group is formed asking all Americans to band together with their personal weapons and march upon their various political offices to say - We're armed and hell no we wont take (the whatever) and we're here to shoot....to demonstrate how upset this (whatever) has made us.

Don't get me wrong...I think if your gov gets out of hand and makes some sort of mandate that you don't see as acceptable, I believe you should stand up for your rights. That's the democracy bit and how it's supposed to work.

I can't see swarms of civilians getting organized enough to take down the gov/military is all....

KevinD
08-30-2013, 12:49 AM
I can't see swarms of civilians getting organized enough to take down the gov/military is all....

Check some history. It's happened before.
I agree that it's not very likely anymore, but never say never.

DemonGeminiX
08-30-2013, 12:53 AM
All you'd have to do is get the military on the people's side. That shouldn't be too hard given that all those soldiers and officers have civilians in their families that they love and care for.

KevinD
08-30-2013, 01:37 AM
Meanwhile, back on the farm, shite like this just keeps getting worse:


http://www.tpnn.com/the-unilateral-presidency-obama-institutes-new-anti-gun-executive-orders/