Gun control is not the answer

[Teh One Who Knocks]

By LZ Granderson, CNN Contributor


http://i.imgur.com/mjJR3gj.jpg

Editor's note: LZ Granderson is a CNN contributor who writes a weekly column for CNN.com. The former Hechinger Institute fellow has had his commentary recognized by the Online News Association, the National Association of Black Journalists and the National Lesbian and Gay Journalists Association. He is also a senior writer for ESPN. Follow him on Twitter @locs_n_laughs.

(CNN) -- Another day, another mass shooting in America.

More blood, more tears, more knee-jerk rhetoric about finding a solution for a bunch of different problems.

Those who knew Aaron Alexis -- the shooter who killed 12 and injured eight more at the Washington Navy Yard this week -- said he was a quiet, shy man.

At one point he was studying Buddhism and meditated often.

A little more digging, and we find he had several gun-related arrests and a pattern of misconduct in the Navy, but he was honorably discharged.

Pieces of a puzzle we may never fully put together.

But the fact that there is still so much we don't know about Alexis -- or the motive behind the shootings -- won't detour gun-control advocates from lumping his story in with that of Adam Lanza, the man police say is responsible for the massacre at Sandy Hook Elementary School, along with the victims from gang- and drug-related shootings.

This is why after the tears have dried and the blood washes away, nothing, if anything, will change.

And because gun-control advocates so often try to cobble together every distinct narrative involving guns into a one-size-fits-all conversation, they are as much to blame for this merry-go-round as the gun lobbyists against whom they fight.

Gun shops are illegal in Chicago.

The city has bans on both assault weapons and high-capacity magazines. And yet each week people continue to die in the streets from gunshot wounds.

This conundrum is just one example why making note that more Americans have died from gun violence here at home since Newtown than in the nine years fighting a war in Iraq is the kind of factoid that grabs our attention but undermines the true goal: curtailing the violence.

Not all deaths involving guns are the same -- therefore trying to address each incident from the same point of view is futile. Until we learn more about Alexis -- the events leading up to the shootings and the motive -- the tragedy in Washington should not be used as catalyst for a conversation about gun control.

Instead, we should mourn and wait for more information.

Far too often assumptions surrounding the details of tragedies such as the one in Washington are made, and well-intentioned stances fall apart when additional facts come to light.

The guns James Holmes was charged with using in Aurora were purchased legally. Beyond the presence of a gun, the crimes committed in the movie theater are not at all similar to what happens in the streets of our large cities. And each time a politician or gun-control advocate tries to use these two very different examples interchangeably, the entire conversation and argument are compromised.

This happened after Newtown.

It happened after Aurora.

And it will keep continue to happen until the advocates accept that ridding the country of guns is a hopeless -- and unconstitutional mission -- and that the real goal should be addressing the factors that lead to the various forms of gun violence: factors such as poverty, mental health and failing schools.

Last month the nation breathed a sigh of relief after Antoinette Tuff, a bookkeeper in an elementary school in suburban Atlanta, prevented a man with an AK-47-type weapon and nearly 500 rounds of ammunition from hurting anyone.

It was not the time to talk generally about gun violence in this country. It was the time to discuss specifics such as cuts to mental health and its impact on services, given that the suspect, 20-year-old Michael Brandon Hill, has a long history of mental disorders. Hill's storyline is similar to that of Lanza, and there are questions whether Holmes, the admitted shooter in the Aurora movie theater, is insane.

Public debates with Wayne LaPierre and attacks on the National Rifle Association have proven to be an ineffective way to prevent gun violence. In the wake of the Washington Navy Yard killings, perhaps a new strategy, one that doesn't involve playing on the nation's emotions or challenging the relevance of the Second Amendment, should be employed. That's not saying the NRA has won -- in fact, I think LaPierre should step down because each time he opens his mouth, he steps in it -- but at the end of the day the organization is more of an agitator than the enemy.

There is no one enemy.

Thus there is no one solution.

Because like it or not, the folks spraying our cities with bullets are not NRA members or legal gun owners. And despite the tendency to tie it all together, they have nothing to do with the Adam Lanzas of the world.

And it's too early to know how Alexis fits in the conversation.

According to a count by USA Today, more than 900 people have been killed in mass shootings since 2006. The thousands of other victims of gun violence over the past seven years died from many different circumstances, requiring different conversations.

This is why gun-control advocates need to abandon the routine of using mass shootings to turn law-abiding citizens into social pariahs and instead focus on something that could work.

[Teh One Who Knocks]

This guy is a FLAMING left winger and I was surprised as hell to read this from him. He gets it, just wish other liberals/lefties would "get it" too.

[perrhaps]

This guy is a FLAMING left winger and I was surprised as hell to read this from him. He gets it, just wish other liberals/lefties would "get it" too.

I agree, but the fact that Wayne LaPierre is such a flaming arrogant asshole doesn't help.

[Hal-9000]

If....other civilians can stop a gun massacre by shooting the perpetrator, then it works.

But we don't hear about examples of that very often.

In fact, I don't hear about many gun owners stopping a home invasion either...there are a few but again, not often.


So the mentality of - Well we all should have guns... because bad guys have guns... doesn't really hold much water.

In my Utopia only law enforcement and the military are issued weapons. Yes, the bad guys will somehow gets their hands on guns but the key is making it so hard, such a stigma to even be seen with one, that the criminals will have a difficult time both procuring and using them.

The 'allowability' that America enjoys when it comes to guns and ammo, is ultimately what opens up the inevitability of these massacres.


An example would be if someone up here is walking around with a gun, you can bet 100 people will report it, Twitter it, take pcitures of it...because it's such an odd site. In the States it's more of an accepted, almost commonplace thing.



In my mind there's a sweet spot in between my Utopia and the current 'allowibilty' that exists now.

[PorkChopSandwiches]

:facepalm:

[Hal-9000]

is that directed at me?

[PorkChopSandwiches]

You talk about a big part of our argument not holding water then jump into a utopian society :lol:

[Goofy]

If....other civilians can stop a gun massacre by shooting the perpetrator, then it works.

But we don't hear about examples of that very often.

In fact, I don't hear about many gun owners stopping a home invasion either...there are a few but again, not often.


So the mentality of - Well we all should have guns... because bad guys have guns... doesn't really hold much water.

In my Utopia only law enforcement and the military are issued weapons. Yes, the bad guys will somehow gets their hands on guns but the key is making it so hard, such a stigma to even be seen with one, that the criminals will have a difficult time both procuring and using them.

The 'allowability' that America enjoys when it comes to guns and ammo, is ultimately what opens up the inevitability of these massacres.


An example would be if someone up here is walking around with a gun, you can bet 100 people will report it, Twitter it, take pcitures of it...because it's such an odd site. In the States it's more of an accepted, almost commonplace thing.



In my mind there's a sweet spot in between my Utopia and the current 'allowibilty' that exists now.

Agreed! Thing is though, with us being born and bred in countries where the gun laws are very tight (and seeing someone with a handgun pretty much never happens - only time i've seen one is on holiday tbh) it's easy for us to say "ban the guns, that'll cure it". There's just so many guns in the US that any ban would be unworkable and obviously a large percentage of Americans would revolt (most of the US posters we have here for instance) against it anyway!

I try to stay out of these discussions tbh because US gun laws are completely alien to me anyway! Our country banned all handguns (minus historical pieces) after the Dunblance massacre and the vast majority of GB backed the ban........ don't see that happening over there.

[Hal-9000]

You talk about a big part of our argument not holding water then jump into a utopian society :lol:

I don't see the mindset of Americans feeling the need to have guns, to stop the bad guys because they have guns...as part of an 'argument'. It's part of your way of life.

It's a different viewpoint that I'm offering... and instead of laying down a sarcastic comment, or putting down the poster...or leaving a condescending icon, maybe you could try to have a conversation?



So you lay down the facepalm as if the ideals I'm thinking of can never materialize. That's part of the problem because you live in a world of fear. So to address the facepalm and it's implications I have a question - How is your current situation workin for ya? Obviously not very well judging by the amount of gun deaths in America. There has to be a change. And I'm not talking about the responsible gun owners like Kev or Lance or even yourself...the change has to come at a different level.

from my previous post, I said - "there's a sweet spot in between my Utopia and the current 'allowibilty' that exists now."

meaning in between....Utopia can't happen, what's going now on can't continue, so there needs to be change.

[PorkChopSandwiches]

If I want to :facepalm: you, I will :facepalm: you. :dance:


We all know where everyone stands on this. People kill people everyday, removing guns may remove gun based murders, but it wont stop murders. People who want to kill will kill. This guy is ex-military if anyone in your Utopia should have a gun, it would be this guy. Now instead of blaming the guns why dont we look at the mental state of these people and look at fixing that issue.

[minz]

I'll likely get kicked for this but I'm going to say it anyway, the thing that really needs to change is attitudes, the comments on facebook, the comments on forums seems to indicate that many Americans (not all before you bite me) have an unbelievable lack of compassion for human life! On one thread regarding gun control, the thread was about yet another shooting, I was shocked at the amount of pro gun Americans saying things like yeah so what, happens all the time get over it, you’re not taking my guns away! I just stared in disbelief at the lack of feelings for their fellow human beings. :( It was as if shootings had become and accepted part of an everyday routine, If it ever gets that way over here can someone shoot me first please because I don’t want to live in a society like that.

[FBD]

If....other civilians can stop a gun massacre by shooting the perpetrator, then it works.

But we don't hear about examples of that very often.

In fact, I don't hear about many gun owners stopping a home invasion either...there are a few but again, not often.

Hal, that's because they are quietly mentioned, and not on most mainstream news outlets, and then promptly buried, lest the public writ large actually get the idea in their head that guns are for safety and defense. And targets. And motherfuckers that attack.

Let me guess...the shooting was in a "gun free" zone :lol:

Arm MFers, and multi person, 10+ person shootings do not happen.

[FBD]

The 'allowability' that America enjoys when it comes to guns and ammo, is ultimately what opens up the inevitability of these massacres.

:facepalm:

:facepalm:

:facepalm:

:facepalm:

:facepalm:

[Muddy]

Utopia can't happen

I agree with this..

[Hal-9000]

Agreed! Thing is though, with us being born and bred in countries where the gun laws are very tight (and seeing someone with a handgun pretty much never happens - only time i've seen one is on holiday tbh) it's easy for us to say "ban the guns, that'll cure it". There's just so many guns in the US that any ban would be unworkable and obviously a large percentage of Americans would revolt (most of the US posters we have here for instance) against it anyway!

I try to stay out of these discussions tbh because US gun laws are completely alien to me anyway! Our country banned all handguns (minus historical pieces) after the Dunblance massacre and the vast majority of GB backed the ban........ don't see that happening over there.


It's hard to live next door and watch a different world unfold. I understand better now, from reading the American posters here. It's helped me understand the why, while still not agreeing with it. I've come to realize that I live in a completely different land, while being geographically close.

Conversely if someone broke into my house, there was maybe a few guys with weapons...HELL YEAH if there was a gun handy I'd probably use to protect my loved ones.

The guys here (Americans) probably don't realize that I silently cheer when I read about a home or a business owner stopping a criminal with a gun. They leveled the playing field and took down the bully. Hopefully sending a message to other bullies that next time, you may not be so lucky when you sneak into someone's house and threaten them.

So I'm stuck in the middle...our country is like yours Goof, we just don't see it. And when it does happen, it is a huge deal.

but the fact is I can't imagine living anywhere where I have to get strapped to walk down to the corner store...I also haven't walked in downtown Detroit or New York or Chicago at 3am....maybe if that was part of my life I'd change my viewpoint....my hope is only for a better solution.

[Hal-9000]

:facepalm:

:facepalm:

:facepalm:

:facepalm:

:facepalm:


fuck you twit

[Muddy]

It's hard to live next door and watch a different world unfold. I understand better now, from reading the American posters here. It's helped me understand the why, while still not agreeing with it. I've come to realize that I live in a completely different land, while being geographically close.

Conversely if someone broke into my house, there was maybe a few guys with weapons...HELL YEAH if there was a gun handy I'd probably use to protect my loved ones.

The guys here (Americans) probably don't realize that I silently cheer when I read about a home or a business owner stopping a criminal with a gun. They leveled the playing field and took down the bully. Hopefully sending a message to other bullies that next time, you may not be so lucky when you sneak into someone's house and threaten them.

So I'm stuck in the middle...our country is like yours Goof, we just don't see it. And when it does happen, it is a huge deal.

but the fact is I can't imagine living anywhere where I have to get strapped to walk down to the corner store...I also haven't walked in downtown Detroit or New York or Chicago at 3am....maybe if that was part of my life I'd change my viewpoint....my hope is only for a better solution.


We need to ship ya'll some real nookahs.. In large numbers.. See how you feel then.. :lol:

[PorkChopSandwiches]

I'll likely get kicked for this but I'm going to say it anyway, the thing that really needs to change is attitudes, the comments on facebook, the comments on forums seems to indicate that many Americans (not all before you bite me) have an unbelievable lack of compassion for human life! On one thread regarding gun control, the thread was about yet another shooting, I was shocked at the amount of pro gun Americans saying things like yeah so what, happens all the time get over it, you’re not taking my guns away! I just stared in disbelief at the lack of feelings for their fellow human beings. :( It was as if shootings had become and accepted part of an everyday routine, If it ever gets that way over here can someone shoot me first please because I don’t want to live in a society like that.

Its because anytime something happens the first thing from the media and our elected officials is "we must get rid of all guns" When the reality is these are mostly issue of mental illness

[Muddy]

Disarm the criminals first..

[Hal-9000]

If you allow a wide expanse of your population to own guns, with some admittedly non-thorough background checks (guns not having to be registered in some States, 48 hour waiting periods etc)....then the massacres will happen.

that's the allowability I'm talking about FBD. The lunatics ruin the privelage for the rest of you. Not only the lunatics, but any guy that can get a gun at Walmart using a little creativity and some lies... and then commit home invasions or muggings.


actually, I'm going to wait until the next thread...no matter what people like Minz, myself, Goof say....it will be wrong in your eyes and that's sad. If you could only see yourselves from the outside, things might change for the better.





Cheers and apologies for dropping the F-bomb at you FBD

[deebakes]

Disarm the criminals first..

:hand:






arm the law abiding first :tup:

[Teh One Who Knocks]

I'll likely get kicked for this but I'm going to say it anyway, the thing that really needs to change is attitudes, the comments on facebook, the comments on forums seems to indicate that many Americans (not all before you bite me) have an unbelievable lack of compassion for human life! On one thread regarding gun control, the thread was about yet another shooting, I was shocked at the amount of pro gun Americans saying things like yeah so what, happens all the time get over it, you’re not taking my guns away! I just stared in disbelief at the lack of feelings for their fellow human beings. :( It was as if shootings had become and accepted part of an everyday routine, If it ever gets that way over here can someone shoot me first please because I don’t want to live in a society like that.

How wonderfully stereotypical :|

So I guess that because I have seen photos of English people with horrible teeth, it is safe for me to assume that most (not all before you bite me) of you across the pond all have horrible dental hygiene habits. :)

This is a country of 320 million people, and just because you see a few hundred or maybe even a few thousand comments by ignorant people doesn't mean that's the way the majority of the people in my country think.

[minz]

How wonderfully stereotypical :|

So I guess that because I have seen photos of English people with horrible teeth, it is safe for me to assume that most (not all before you bite me) of you across the pond all have horrible dental hygiene habits. :)

This is a country of 320 million people, and just because you see a few hundred or maybe even a few thousand comments by ignorant people doesn't mean that's the way the majority of the people in my country think.

America has one of the highest gun crime rates worldwide and as is so often said 'guns dont kill people' so that pretty much leaves the attitude of the people carrying them, my comment said many not majority.

[Muddy]

*rubs dick on Hals teeth*

[minz]

*rubs dick on Hals teeth*

Careful, he might like that. :lol:

[Teh One Who Knocks]

America has one of the highest gun crime rates worldwide and as is so often said 'guns dont kill people' so that pretty much leaves the attitude of the people carrying them, my comment said many not majority.

Maybe you lot should concern yourselves with your knife problem, eh?


All too often, I find myself reading some line of nonsense about how gun control legislation is important to protect the lives of citizens, all "proven" by gun crime statistics in the US. In one discussion in particular, some hoplophobic idiot tried to tell me that the fact guns account for the weapon of choice in more murders than all other weapons combined means they're too dangerous to allow people to have. This says nothing at all about the actual murder rate, and the effect of gun control legislation on the murder rate — just that, even if the murder rate is lower in the presence of firearms, guns end up having the largest share of the murder market in the US.

An alternative theory of the statistic might go something like this:


More guns in the hands of private citizens discourage people from committing murder with knives.

The number of murders with knives declined, and the number of murders with guns remained constant.

The overall number of murders decreased because of the decline in knife murder rates, so the percentage of murders committed with guns increased even though the number of gun murders remained constant.



I don't have any idea whether that's an accurate explanation for the higher rate of gun murders than knife murders in the US. The statistical basis for proving or disproving this kind of theory of the effect guns have on murder rates doesn't exactly exist. It certainly is a plausible-sounding hypothesis, though, and no less supported by the lone statistic of 68% of murders in the US in 2006 being committed with guns.

The same guy, in the same comment where he pointed out that more murders are committed with guns than with any other weapon in the US, also linked to UK gun crime figures. Well, sure, let's compare crime rates in the UK with those in the US. We've already established that gun crimes are more numerous in the US than knife crimes, and I'll stipulate for the sake of argument that gun crimes are more numerous in the US than in the UK (though there are niggling holes in that comparison, too). Let's try a different comparison. Note that I'm probably overestimating the UK population and underestimating the US population in these statistical comparisons, which favors the UK in terms of estimating low crime rates (since these rates are measured per capita). The same goes for the fact I'm underestimating UK crime incidences and overestimating US incidences. Despite heavily favoring the UK for determining the per capita statistics, I think you'll find the results illuminating:


In or about 2006, there were about 60 million (actually closer to 58M, but we'll use the rounded-up number to be kind to hopolophobes) people in the UK as a whole, including Scotland.

In England and Wales alone — discounting Scotland — there were over 163 thousand knife crimes.

By the end of 2006, there were more than 300 million people in the US as a whole.

In the US as a whole, there were fewer than 400 thousand gun crimes.

In the UK, based on these numbers, there was one knife crime commited for every 374 people (rounded down).

In the US, based on these numbers, there was one gun crime committed for every 750 people — less than half a gun crime per 374 people (about 0.4987 gun crimes per 374 people, actually).

That means that, based on these statistics, you are more than twice as likely to be a victim of knife crime in the UK as you are to be a victim of gun crime in the US.



Statistical studies can be great tools for determining the results of policy changes, but the devil lies in the details. Simply picking a number out of thin air — like the fact that 68% of murders are committed by the use of a firearm in the US — in no way proves anything other than that 68% of murders are committed by the use of a firearm. That alone doesn't mean you're in more danger in the US because of laxer gun control legislation than in the UK, where firearms are all but entirely prohibited (hey, at least the police can check them out of the supply room under very extreme circumstances — right?).

Note that even the statistical comparisons I present here are not sufficient to prove a case. There are too many other variables in comparisons between crime rates in the UK and in the US to reasonably expect any real certainty about exactly what effect gun control laws have in either country. A far more reliable statistical comparison for purposes of determining the effect of gun control legislation is, as I pointed out in gun control arguments aren't exactly "rigorous", to compare crime statistics before the passage or repeal of a gun law to those after the passage of the law — say, the three years prior and the three years after. Other factors will come into play, but given enough case studies, trends will definitely be seen to emerge.

If you aren't prepared to produce statistics like that, you aren't prepared to produce statistics that prove anything worthwhile about the efficacy of gun control legislation.

[RBP]

I ask a very simply question in each of these cases. What impact would proposed gun control have had? Unless your talking about draconian measures to eliminate basically every class of firearm (which no one with the exception of Feinstein is), the answer is zero.

Aurora? Zero.
Newtown? Zero.
Fort Hood? Zero.
Navy Yard? Zero.

So why are we told it would have impacted these events? Why are we given false arguments? I reasonably (I think) assume that it's people who do not care about the impacts on the events they are using as examples. They only care about their own political agenda to limit a constitutional right. Nothing more. This board can go back and forth, and we do, but the simple fact remains that there is no proposal on the table, from the President or anyone else, that would have prevented those events from occurring. And to the OP and Porky's point, in the meantime, we ignore the mental health identification and treatment issues, we kowtow to political correctness that prevents identification of potential home grown terrorists, and we blindly ignore the war zones of the inner cities. The gang bangers in the Chicago shitholes call it "Chiraq."

Has anyone heard a proposal to address those issues? I'd love to see it. I largely ignore arguments that go on after these tragedies because it almost entirely meaningless bullshit.

[FBD]

Maybe you lot should concern yourselves with your knife problem, eh?

I think that's something the anti gun people forget. Violence is violence, and so long as you have violent people you will have these things happen.

Fk's sake, you cant even practice tai chi sword form in england with an actual sword.

No wonder they said the Roman rule would be preferable to what yall got there now :lol:

[DemonGeminiX]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K6Bw4zyW1ig

[Muddy]

I think that's something the anti gun people forget. Violence is violence, and so long as you have violent people you will have these things happen.

Fk's sake, you cant even practice tai chi sword form in england with an actual sword.

No wonder they said the Roman rule would be preferable to what yall got there now :lol:

Yeah Id rather take my chances with a stabbing than a gun shot though.. :lol:

[Loser]

Yeah Id rather take my chances with a stabbing than a gun shot though.. :lol:

Actually, knife wounds are statistically worse then gun shots.

ask any ER surgeon.

[Muddy]

Actually, knife wounds are statistically worse then gun shots.

ask any ER surgeon.

I'd have to see the statistics on deaths reported from guns and knives to believe it..

[FBD]

Actually, knife wounds are statistically worse then gun shots.

ask any ER surgeon.
funny, cuz I almost wrote in there I'd rather have a bullet go cleanly through me than get shivved any day of the week.

[Muddy]

funny, cuz I almost wrote in there I'd rather have a bullet go cleanly through me than get shivved any day of the week.

Would you rather be attempted stabbed in the head or shot in the head?






















From 50 feet away. :mrgreen:

[Teh One Who Knocks]

Would you rather be attempted stabbed in the head or shot in the head?






















From 50 feet away. :mrgreen:

In close quarters, it's easier to disarm someone holding a gun than it is to disarm someone carrying a knife.

[DemonGeminiX]

In close quarters, it's easier to disarm someone holding a gun than it is to disarm someone carrying a knife.

My military friends always said that.

[Muddy]

If you know what you're doing. But my statement was meant more to say you dont have to get in close quarters to shoot someone with a gun.. Which to me makes them far more dangerous a weapon.

[Loser]

I'd have to see the statistics on deaths reported from guns and knives to believe it..

I can't find one at the moment, but take a common sense approach to it.

9mm is .355 of an inch wide. .45 acp is .451 of an inch.

Most knifes, while thin, are also wide from knife spine to edge. Most chefs knifes are 3 1/2 inches, spine to blade edge.

Most of the pocket knifes I carry are at least 1 1/2 inches.


Now, a bullet does cause more blunt trauma, but a knife has most capability of hitting vitals.

[Muddy]

I can't find one at the moment, but take a common sense approach to it.

9mm is .355 of an inch wide. .45 acp is .451 of an inch.

Most knifes, while thin, are also wide from knife spine to edge. Most chefs knifes are 3 1/2 inches, spine to blade edge.

Most of the pocket knifes I carry are at least 1 1/2 inches.


Now, a bullet does cause more blunt trauma, but a knife has most capability of hitting vitals.

Yeah but when a bullet comes out it usually makes a huge friggin hole if it hits bones.. :lol:

Guys, you have all heard the old adage.. Don't bring a knife to a gun fight!

[Loser]

Yeah but when a bullet comes out it usually makes a huge friggin hole if it hits bones.. :lol:

Guys, you have all heard the old adage.. Don't bring a knife to a gun fight!

If it's a hollow point, yes.

If it's an FMJ, no.

Most gang bangers don't spend shit tons of money on ammo, cause hollow point ammo is about 4 times the price.

[DemonGeminiX]

Mercury-tipped hollow points.

:twisted:

[Muddy]

:hellokitty:

[PorkChopSandwiches]

http://i.imgur.com/RRjrKn0.jpg

[Muddy]

http://i.imgur.com/wMEziqD.jpg

[Muddy]

http://i.imgur.com/v0cwDwj.jpg

[KevinD]

Would you rather be attempted stabbed in the head or shot in the head?






















From 50 feet away. :mrgreen:

From 50ft? I'll take either one any day. Most folks who don't shoot actively couldn't hit a man sized target from 50ft with an pistol. Hal's argument was a much better one at 20 feet away. J/K

Both are deadly as hell in the right hands. and to be totally honest, I hope I never again run into some one carrying either one who is intent on harming me or mine.

[Loser]

Knives are just as deadly as guns. Just as easy to use.

Just ask the headless bus rider from canada ;)

[Muddy]

Oh for gods sake..

Anyone found the stats yet?

[PorkChopSandwiches]

90% of stats are made up on the fly

[PorkChopSandwiches]

http://i.imgur.com/WbwpSB6.jpg

[Hal-9000]

Knives are just as deadly as guns. Just as easy to use.

Just ask the headless bus rider from canada ;)

You can't shoot a knife at 400 miles per hour and you have to be standing next to the person, you have to be strong and you have to know what part of the body to stab when using a knife. With a gun you can be a coward and kill from a distance with a trigger pull.

Not comparable at all.

[Goofy]

I wonder if this Aaron Alexis dude could have killed all 12 people armed with only a knife :-k

[PorkChopSandwiches]

Rambo could

[Goofy]

Fictional characters apart :nono:

[Teh One Who Knocks]

Rambo could

Rambo could hit a moving truck with a flaming arrow at 500 yards :lol:

[FBD]

You can't shoot a knife at 400 miles per hour and you have to be standing next to the person, you have to be strong and you have to know what part of the body to stab when using a knife. With a gun you can be a coward and kill from a distance with a trigger pull.

Not comparable at all.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=9igSoJHEdUo

ever see what someone's forearms look like after a knife fight?

they actually have these sharpie-knives to train with...so basically everywhere you have a mark, that will now be leaking pretty badly.

far enough away...the person better be a good shot. many factors...its a LOT easier to hit a moving target with a knife than a gun :-k

[Muddy]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=9igSoJHEdUo

ever see what someone's forearms look like after a knife fight?

they actually have these sharpie-knives to train with...so basically everywhere you have a mark, that will now be leaking pretty badly.

far enough away...the person better be a good shot. many factors...its a LOT easier to hit a moving target with a knife than a gun :-k

Well god damn, it's Dan Inosanto.. :lol: