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Teh One Who Knocks
05-03-2011, 01:43 PM
Mark Hosenball and Kamran Haider - Reuters


WASHINGTON/ABBOTTABAD, Pakistan (Reuters) - Pakistan's president acknowledged for the first time on Tuesday that his security forces were left out of a U.S. operation to kill Osama bin Laden, but he did little to dispel questions over how the al Qaeda leader was able to live in comfort near Islamabad.

The revelation that bin Laden had holed up in a compound in the military garrison town of Abbottabad, possibly for years, prompted many U.S. lawmakers to demand a review of the billions of dollars in aid Washington gives to nuclear-armed Pakistan.

"He was not anywhere we had anticipated he would be, but now he is gone," Pakistan President Asif Ali Zardari wrote in an opinion piece in the Washington Post, without offering further defense against accusations his security services should have known where bin Laden was hiding.

"Although the events of Sunday were not a joint operation, a decade of cooperation and partnership between the United States and Pakistan led up to the elimination of Osama bin Laden as a continuing threat to the civilized world."

It was the first substantive public comment by any Pakistani civilian or military leader on the airborne raid by U.S. special forces on bin Laden's compound in the early hours of Monday.

Pakistan has faced enormous international scrutiny since bin Laden was killed, with questions over whether its military and intelligence agencies were too incompetent to catch him or knew all along where he was hiding.

White House counterterrorism chief John Brennan told a briefing that Pakistan was not informed of the raid until after all U.S. aircraft were out of Pakistani airspace.

Senior U.S., Pakistani and Afghan officials later held a previously scheduled meeting in Islamabad to discuss the fight against militancy in Afghanistan and Pakistan but deflected questions about the bin Laden operation.

"Who did what is beside the point ... This issue of Osama bin Laden is history," Pakistani Foreign Secretary Salman Bashir told a joint news conference.

Marc Grossman, the U.S. special representative for Afghanistan and Pakistan, said both sides wanted to move beyond recriminations and finger-pointing.

But irate U.S. lawmakers earlier asked how it was possible for bin Laden to live in a populated area near a military training academy without anyone in authority knowing about it.

They said it was time to review aid to Pakistan. The U.S. Congress has approved $20 billion for Pakistan in direct aid and military reimbursements partly to help Islamabad fight militancy since bin Laden masterminded the September 11, 2001 attacks.

"Our government is in fiscal distress. To make contributions to a country that isn't going to be fully supportive is a problem for many," said Senate Intelligence Committee Chair Dianne Feinstein.

The White House acknowledged there was good reason for U.S. lawmakers, already doubtful of Pakistan's cooperation against al Qaeda, to demand to know whether bin Laden had been "hiding in plain sight" and to raise questions about U.S. aid to Islamabad.

"Certainly his location there outside of the capital raises questions. We are talking to the Pakistanis about this," said Brennan, adding it was "inconceivable that bin Laden did not have a support system in the country that allowed him to remain there for an extended period of time."

There were no protests and there was no extra security in Islamabad on Tuesday, just a sense of embarrassment or indifference that bin Laden had managed to lie low for so long in Abbottabad.

"The failure of Pakistan to detect the presence of the world's most-wanted man here is shocking," the daily News said in an editorial, reflecting the general tone in the media.

Zardari has made no address to the people of a country where anti-American sentiment runs high, prompting one Twitter user to tweet: "Most wanted man is killed on Pakistani soil and the Pres doesn't address his people, instead writes an op-ed for USA."

Pakistan has a long history of nurturing Islamist militants in the interests of its strategic objectives, primarily facing up to what it sees as its biggest threat -- India. Pakistan's fear of India has been at the root of its support for the Afghan Taliban and separatist militants in Indian Kashmir.

Muddy
05-03-2011, 01:45 PM
Sorry buddy.. You gotta be somebody to roll with the big dogs...

Acid Trip
05-03-2011, 01:53 PM
"Who did what is beside the point ... This issue of Osama bin Laden is history,"

AKA "Let's not nit pick about how let him live right near our version of West Point, he's dead so who cares anymore?"

AntZ
05-03-2011, 01:56 PM
I wonder exactly how long it would have taken from the point of the U.S. alerting Pakistan that they were on the way, to some official playing the part of Paul Revere running screaming down the street that the "Americans are coming"!!

Loser
05-03-2011, 01:57 PM
Funny...He "gets killed"....Burial at sea almost immediately afterwards...and now news media shifts to questioning pakistani officials.

This screams coverup if you ask me.

lost in melb.
05-03-2011, 02:02 PM
I think that the whole thing had been discussed behind closed doors before the raid. I bet Pakistan was fully aware of what was going to happen...perhaps not the exact day, but they knew the US knew - and they knew the US knew that they knew.

And that $20 Billion a year keeps the nutters in the sanitorium. Sorry guys, you'll have to keep coughing up...




Or - let India loose on them ;)

lost in melb.
05-03-2011, 02:04 PM
Funny...He "gets killed"....Burial at sea almost immediately afterwards...and now news media shifts to questioning pakistani officials.

This screams coverup if you ask me.

For sure, but what are they covering up :-k

Deepsepia
05-03-2011, 02:07 PM
I wonder exactly how long it would have taken from the point of the U.S. alerting Pakistan that they were on the way, to some official playing the part of Paul Revere running screaming down the street that the "Americans are coming"!!

I think we know the answer to that one, and the over/under is at 90 seconds.

UBL was living next door to the Pakistani Military Academy.

The alternative scenario is that UBL had outlived his usefulness to his Pakistani allies, and they gave them up.

The "official story" -- about tracking the courier -- might be true, but it could equally easily be a cover.

Softdreamer
05-03-2011, 02:59 PM
I have a strong feeling he has been in Pakistan for a good few years, There are alot of anti-western sympathisers there, both inside and outside of the intelligence and government.
I would not be surprised if the USA kept them in the dark about the raid for fear of a leak.

Muddy
05-03-2011, 03:04 PM
I would not be surprised if the USA kept them in the dark about the raid for fear of a leak.

No way..... :lol: *sarcasm smiley*

Arkady Renko
05-03-2011, 03:07 PM
I have a strong feeling he has been in Pakistan for a good few years, There are alot of anti-western sympathisers there, both inside and outside of the intelligence and government.
I would not be surprised if the USA kept them in the dark about the raid for fear of a leak.

German news weekly der spiegel reports that they have it on good authority that UBL has been living in the compound for at least five years.

Teh One Who Knocks
05-03-2011, 11:32 PM
This is just unbelievable...in an Op-Ed piece in the Washington Post by the Pakistani president:


Let us be frank. Pakistan has paid an enormous price for its stand against terrorism. More of our soldiers have died than all of NATO’s casualties combined. Two thousand police officers, as many as 30,000 innocent civilians and a generation of social progress for our people have been lost.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/pakistan-did-its-part/2011/05/02/AFHxmybF_story.html

Hugh_Janus
05-03-2011, 11:45 PM
For sure, but what are they covering up :-k

that they've got him in a cage and are asking him questions in a very polite manner? :lol:

lost in melb.
05-04-2011, 12:19 AM
This is just unbelievable...in an Op-Ed piece in the Washington Post by the Pakistani president:



http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/pakistan-did-its-part/2011/05/02/AFHxmybF_story.html

It's ironic, because those statistics are true

Teh One Who Knocks
05-04-2011, 12:27 AM
It's ironic, because those statistics are true

30,000 Pakistani civilians are dead? :-s

Would you care to back that up?

lost in melb.
05-04-2011, 12:37 AM
30,000 Pakistani civilians are dead? :-s

Would you care to back that up?

More like 10,000, you're correct. They appear to have included insurgent deaths


http://www.satp.org/satporgtp/countries/pakistan/database/casualties.htm


I think part of the problem is a lot of the terrorists ARE pakistani. So basically the US and, to a lesser extent, the rest of us are funding an expensive civil war :|

Deepsepia
05-04-2011, 01:48 AM
I think part of the problem is a lot of the terrorists ARE pakistani. So basically the US and, to a lesser extent, the rest of us are funding an expensive civil war :|

Yes, the heart of the problem is that we do have what the Bush Administration was worried about -- it happens that it isn't and never was Iraq.

We have a regime with clear ties to Islamic terrorists, and it possesses nuclear weapons, a lot of them.

Pakistan is the problem. I personally would like to see their nuclear facilities destroyed, if we could do that.

Softdreamer
05-04-2011, 10:38 AM
Gradually we begin to see to difference between Iraq/Afghanistan/Pakistan/Libya/Egypt/Israel/Iran etc.

Its not how dangerous they are to global stability, but how well armed they are, and how far we will go to piss them off, or bribe them..


#lights blue touch paper, retreats to safe distance#

Softdreamer
05-04-2011, 10:55 AM
30,000 Pakistani civilians are dead? :-s

Would you care to back that up?

I used to work with a guy from Peshawar (Awesome cook I might add). This was 6 years or so ago, and even then he had left a couple of years before. He said about one in ten of the citys people were dead or missing. and he knew horror stories I wouldnt care to imagine. Admittedly alot of people would have just fled. But he lost a brother to a "recruitment drive" which was basically a raid for suitable men at gunpoint to fight across the border.
I never pressed him too much as its a difficult thing to talk about to someone. But I doubt we will ever know the full cost of lives on all sides.
He said when it all started people flowed across the border with all kinds of injuries and that spurred hatred in the border towns of the "invasion" by Nato/USA/UK.

I read somewhere that the financial cost of 5 years at war was the same as building a hospital and school in every large town there.. It makes me wonder what we should be doing now.

Deepsepia
05-04-2011, 11:04 AM
Gradually we begin to see to difference between Iraq/Afghanistan/Pakistan/Libya/Egypt/Israel/Iran etc.

Its not how dangerous they are to global stability, but how well armed they are, and how far we will go to piss them off, or bribe them..

Of course you have to "see the difference". Strategy doesn't make sense if you treat Costa Rica like Mexico, or vice versa.

Pakistan has a nuclear arsenal, Pakistan has supplied others with nuclear weapons technology, the Pakistani Intelligence Services have created and supported Islamic terrorist organizations, and it now turns out the world's most wanted terrorist was living in what appears to be officially sanctioned comfort next to the heart of the Pakistani military establishment.

I would certainly support military action against Iran, North Korea or Pakistan to destroy their nuclear capability-- everyone one of them is dangerous and has demonstrated through behavior that their intentions are bad and that they're not to be trusted with WMDs.

Of the nations you mentioned, I find it bizarre that we continue to occupy Afghanistan, a nation which is as close to being of absolutely no importance as one could be.

DemonGeminiX
05-04-2011, 11:47 AM
http://www.superhonda.com/photopost/data/519/Problem_solved.jpg

FBD
05-04-2011, 11:58 AM
:lol: (http://iowahawk.typepad.com/iowahawk/2011/05/american-pride-is-back.html)

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-myNVb6CSiaM/Tb-PKolr84I/AAAAAAAAWKc/Dvo72q8vN1c/s1600/ThanksButNoThanks.jpg

Arkady Renko
05-04-2011, 12:50 PM
Of the nations you mentioned, I find it bizarre that we continue to occupy Afghanistan, a nation which is as close to being of absolutely no importance as one could be.

location, location! due to its geographic situation, Afghanistan is like the human body's appendix. Nobody can quite figure out what it does, if anything, but if it becomes infected it can take the entire body with it in a sepsis.

Teh One Who Knocks
05-04-2011, 12:57 PM
More like 10,000, you're correct. They appear to have included insurgent deaths


http://www.satp.org/satporgtp/countries/pakistan/database/casualties.htm

From your source: Source: Figures are compiled from news reports and are provisional.

Forgive me if I don't take the word of Pakistani news reports