And so it begins.

[Loser]

NYC has started mandatory registration of firearms that holds more then 5 rounds.

http://i.imgur.com/vAXTCAz.png

[Muddy]

Can this be fought with natural law?

[Hal-9000]

so you already had your weapons registered and that's what generates the notice?


:lol: ok...strip the registered gun owners but leave the unregistered holders of the same gun alone.......maka no sense

[Pony]

Yep, gonna be a lot of folks with unregistered weapons.

Whats the next step? Warrantless searches of your home if you dont comply?

[Muddy]

How long has New York tried to implement this?

[PorkChopSandwiches]

Yep, gonna be a lot of folks with unregistered weapons.

Whats the next step? Warrantless searches of your home if you dont comply?

They all ready do that, look what happened after the boston bombing. We're all FUCKED

[Goofy]

I'm not in New York and i don't own a gun :cheers:

[Loser]

so you already had your weapons registered and that's what generates the notice?


:lol: ok...strip the registered gun owners but leave the unregistered holders of the same gun alone.......maka no sense

And hal, now you know why we fight this shit.

[Hal-9000]

so if the firearm holds 6 rounds, does that imply that it's an automatic...or does it imply that the owner is an angry person and will likely shoot someone? :lol:

[Pony]

I tried to look up "New York City gun laws" and everything I read was saying 7 rounds. Even if you have a 10 round mag you are not to load more than 7. I didn't see any info on this 5 round or else thing.

[Loser]

SAFE act is what they are filing this under.


"The SAFE Act stops criminals and the dangerously mentally ill from buying a gun by requiring universal background checks on gun purchases, increases penalties for people who use illegal guns, mandates life in prison without parole for anyone who murders a first responder, and imposes the toughest assault weapons ban in the country. For hunters, sportsmen, and law abiding gun owners, this new law preserves and protects your right to buy, sell, keep or use your guns."

[Hal-9000]

the SAFE thing lists a lot of good points :-k


life in prison for shooting first responders is particularly noteworthy IMO

[Hal-9000]

dumb question time...

do most hunting rifles hold more than 5 rounds? I'm thinking of rifles you'd use to kill deer and birds with

[Griffin]

dumb question time...

do most hunting rifles hold more than 5 rounds? I'm thinking of rifles you'd use to kill deer and birds with

Most states have a limit while hunting. Here in Arkansas it's 5 rounds, so if your shotgun holds more you have to have a plug in.I have several rifles with removable mags but I have 5 rounders for each while hunting.

[Loser]

dumb question time...

do most hunting rifles hold more than 5 rounds? I'm thinking of rifles you'd use to kill deer and birds with

Some states have limitations, such as in Indiana. Indiana is very much a gun friendly state, but does not allow hunting with a rifle, period. Michigan has magazine limitation of 3 rounds.*for shotguns that are used for hunting*

Let me explain the stupidness that is the Assault weapons ban.

There are about 20 different "semi-automatic" rifles on the market, that function the exact same as ar-15's and ak-47, but are visually different. Functionally the same. One round fired per pull of trigger. Yet those guns were not effected by the assault weapons ban.


Now let me explain the idiocy of the SAFE act. On the front page of the websight, it asks you to register your weapon. Stating that if you do, nothing will happen. The letter at the beginning of this forum posts states otherwise. Bait and switch?

http://www.governor.ny.gov/nysafeact/gun-reform

[DemonGeminiX]

"I'm sorry, officer. I lost my guns in a boating accident."

[Spyker]

I'm not an american but i find the gun debate interesting and i find myself on both sides of the debate

You are allowed to own guns in your constitution

on the other hand you can order a gun online without checks and balances in place


I do think people some kind of vetting should be in place to make sure people with criminal records dont own guns. Then again the kids that shoot up schools and shit dont normally have criminal records and neither do their parents. I guess i'll sit on the sideline and see how you guys handle it

[Loser]

on the other hand you can order a gun online without checks and balances in place



WRONG!

Common misconception among people that do not know.

Yes, you can purchase a firearm online, but that firearm needs to be shipped to an FFL dealer, who then has to perform all the necessary background checks before you take control of the firearm.

[redred]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Tv9BeOkRTc

interesting seems private sells are easy to do

[Muddy]

I think there are gun show loopholes that make it very easy for people to buy guns, Red.. Lot's of contraband comes from those things.

[redred]

thanks muddy :tup: i understand your rights to be gun owners and 98% (not a fact ) are great gun owners but it's the 2% that are fucking it up and bring the spotlight on your country , as an outsider it seems crazy that you can buy guns like in that video , but the flip side you can go into a store and buy kitchen knifes , both can kill so what can you do :shrug:

[Muddy]

Never bring a knife to a gunfight...! I dont buy that whole knives can kill as well BS argument.. :lol:

[FBD]

"I'm sorry, officer. I lost my guns in a boating accident."

you too? tragic, I tell you. I just dont have good luck with boats, the other boat I had went down with all my gold in it :dance:

[FBD]

Never bring a knife to a gunfight...! I dont buy that whole knives can kill as well BS argument.. :lol:

still not up on all that data that shows if a mofo wants to kill someone, he's going to find a way?

[Muddy]

still not up on all that data that shows if a mofo wants to kill someone, he's going to find a way?

Nope.. I can defend 50 ways against a knife attack.. A gun attack.. None short of having a shield.

But look, Im not against gun rights.. I'm against 100% unfettered access to anything the heart desires rights. (when its major use is to harm others).

[RBP]

Never bring a knife to a gunfight...! I dont buy that whole knives can kill as well BS argument.. :lol:

So why are FAR more people killed with weapons other than guns, but we only focus on the weapon and do not ever address the underlying causes of the violence?

[FBD]

Nope.. I can defend 50 ways against a knife attack.. A gun attack.. None short of having a shield.


can defend 50 ways against a knife attack? any that dont involve about 75 cuts? :lol: were you an old filipino, I might believe you. ;) damn near anyone that says they can defend themselves against a knife attack had better hope to hell their attacker has never actually attacked anyone with a knife before.

[Muddy]

can defend 50 ways against a knife attack? any that dont involve about 75 cuts? :lol: were you an old filipino, I might believe you. ;) damn near anyone that says they can defend themselves against a knife attack had better hope to hell their attacker has never actually attacked anyone with a knife before.

Yeah.. First I can hide behind something.. Second I can throw something at you.. Anything.. Even a frickin pillow can slow you down.. Not so much with a gun.

[Muddy]

So why are FAR more people killed with weapons other than guns, but we only focus on the weapon and do not ever address the underlying causes of the violence?

Like I said.. Im not anti guns... I just dont think they should be sold at 7-11 like the NRA would like.

[Hal-9000]

Nope.. I can defend 50 ways against a knife attack.. A gun attack.. None short of having a shield.

But look, Im not against gun rights.. I'm against 100% unfettered access to anything the heart desires rights. (when its major use is to harm others).


Pulling a trigger from a distance vs having to get close enough and being strong enough and intelligent enough to inflict an instant fatal wound with a knife are not the same thing.

I couldn't agree more. Two completely different methods of killing and they are not, and never will be comparable. One fires a projectile at over 400 mph and the other does not and is a hand held utensil. You can defend against a knife attack, bullets notsomuch.

Two different ranges, speeds, and tools to commit the fatal blow (bullet vs knife).

[RBP]

Like I said.. Im not anti guns... I just dont think they should be sold at 7-11 like the NRA would like.

That is a gross mischaracterization of the NRA position. I have never heard anything other than defending the rights of responsible gun owners.

If you have specific examples to discuss, please do that. Otherwise, hyperbole serves no purpose.

[RBP]

Pulling a trigger from a distance vs having to get close enough and being strong enough and intelligent enough to inflict an instant fatal wound with a knife are not the same thing.

I couldn't agree more. Two completely different methods of killing and they are not, and never will be comparable. One fires a projectile at over 400 mph and the other does not and is a hand held utensil. You can defend against a knife attack, bullets notsomuch.

Two different ranges, speeds, and tools to commit the fatal blow (bullet vs knife).

Yes, but that assumption that the fatal blow would not otherwise be delivered is where we part logic.

[Hal-9000]

can defend 50 ways against a knife attack? any that dont involve about 75 cuts? :lol: were you an old filipino, I might believe you. ;) damn near anyone that says they can defend themselves against a knife attack had better hope to hell their attacker has never actually attacked anyone with a knife before.

I get a gun, you get a knife and we stand 20 feet apart to start. We'll assume because I'm holding the gun I have a vague idea of how it works, maybe I have even shot one before (I haven't).

Someone says go and I'll be firing at least 6 bullets in your direction. Even with all of your gumby-ninja skills I will injure you with as much exertion as it takes to squeeze a trigger. You on the other hand will have to get close enough to me to strike at arm's length, and you had better hope you're hitting some vital organs in that first thrust, because I'll be deflecting, moving away, cowering in fear, while you get all stabby on my ass with the knife.

the argument is about the ease of killing with each tool, not about marksmanship or knife skills. Two average people, one holding a gun, one holding a knife. There is no comparison or argument here about which one can kill another human being easier and faster.

[Hal-9000]

Yes, but that assumption that the fatal blow would not otherwise be delivered is where we part logic.

Never said that at all. Both can deliver fatal blows. The logic is this: One is a projectile at 400 mph from a trigger depression and the other is physical blow by hand...have you ever fought anyone?

It takes a fair amount of skill to get into a position to use your hand or a tool in that hand to deliver an instant killing blow. Plunging a knife in someone takes strength and you have to know anatomy. You can hit bone, muscle, fat with the knife and after 10 hits, the person can still walk away.

[Muddy]

That is a gross mischaracterization of the NRA position. I have never heard anything other than defending the rights of responsible gun owners.

If you have specific examples to discuss, please do that. Otherwise, hyperbole serves no purpose.

Hyperbole does serve a purpose.. It runs rampant on both sides of the argument.

[RBP]

Hyperbole does serve a purpose.. It runs rampant on both sides of the argument.



According to the Congressional Research Service, mass shootings account for an average of 18 lives a year in this country. These events have neither increased nor decreased in the past 30 years.

...all violent crime — including gun homicide — has gone down over the last 20 years. The gun murder rate has gone from 6.62 per 100,000 inhabitants in 1993 to 3.27 in 2012, a decline of more than 50 percent.

According to a Gallup poll Friday, fewer people blame easy access to guns as the cause for mass shootings than did just two years ago. Also, 48 percent of the public points to the failure of the mental health system to identify individuals who are a danger to others as the primary cause.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/sep/25/miller-obama-tells-americans-to-obsess-over-the-sh/


I prefer facts, but maybe that's just me.

[Hal-9000]

btw...I'm all for gun owners registering and owning firearms. If they pass the checks and are responsible with the care and handling of the weapons, I can understand the need for self defense.

[Muddy]

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/sep/25/miller-obama-tells-americans-to-obsess-over-the-sh/


I prefer facts, but maybe that's just me.

So did deepsepia.. Where'd that get him? Also, what do I care about a gallup poll and what other people think? Im the smartest mother fucker you'll ever know.. :lol:

[Muddy]

btw...I'm all for gun owners registering and owning firearms. If they pass the checks and are responsible with the care and handling of the weapons, I can understand the need for self defense.

Me too Hal.. RBP just wants to argue about it.. All or none, that's how the pro-gun guys have been wired.

[DemonGeminiX]

No offense gentlemen, but if somebody's coming after me, I'd rather pull a trigger from 20 yards away than wait for him to get up close and personal. As much as I love the satisfaction of beating someone half to hell in a hand to hand situation, I'd rather not get in that situation if I don't have to when the other party is not giving me much of a choice in the avoidance category.

Y'all can pretend to be Macho Man Randy Savage all you like, I'm blowing the fucker away and saving myself the effort that I shouldn't have had to waste on a situation that I shouldn't have been put in in the first place. You can be tough all you like, it's good enough for me to be alive.

[RBP]

So did deepsepia.. Where'd that get him? Also, what do I care about a gallup poll and what other people think? Im the smartest mother fucker you'll ever know.. :lol:


Me too Hal.. RBP just wants to argue about it.. All or none, that's how the pro-gun guys have been wired.

I haven't argued anything other than your ridiculous statement that the NRA wants sales at 7-11. And what member of this board or what member of the NRA has ever said it's all or nothing? Please enlighten me. I have never heard that stated except by you just now. You are making shit up and then defending your fantasy by saying any actual facts contrary to your make up crap is conspiracy. But, yes, I quite obviously the one with no grip on reality. Clearly.

[DemonGeminiX]

Im the smartest mother fucker you'll ever know.. :lol:

:-s

[redred]

why are so many (not all ) against more paper work / background checks in order to buy not own a gun ?

[RBP]

why are so many (not all ) against more paper work / background checks in order to buy not own a gun ?

I am not sure who is against that. When that data is not destroyed (as it is now) and used to create national registries of gun owners and locations, that's when people get troubled.

I also have the concern about who defines the mental illnes criteria, but that's a separate issue.

[redred]

so everyone would be happy with a data base saying gun XXXXX123 belongs to mr/mrs >>>>> last owner mr /mrs >>>>> .for example like a car in this country ?


btw I own a gun be it a 0.22 that can't be traced to me ,it has no s/n and doesn't have paper work but if needed to i'd join a list

[RBP]

so everyone would be happy with a data base saying gun XXXXX123 belongs to mr/mrs >>>>> last owner mr /mrs >>>>> .for example like a car in this country ?


btw I own a gun be it a 0.22 that can't be traced to me ,it has no s/n and doesn't have paper work but if needed to i'd join a list


No, I think a lot of people would consider a national gun registry an huge problem here.

[redred]

but if it came in could to see it helping stop mass shootings ? ( i'm not judging anyone)

[RBP]

but if it came in could to see it helping stop mass shootings ? ( i'm not judging anyone)

No, there has been absolutely nothing proposed that would have stopped the mass shootings.

[redred]

example

last owner thinks , you know what i ain't going to sell mr X that gun he seems strange/crazy and i don't want to be tied to that gun without a full check on him

[redred]

btw RBP thanks for the replies :tup: as with this thread and other threads in the past i'm trying not to judge your laws just talking understanding them for myself

[Loser]

so everyone would be happy with a data base saying gun XXXXX123 belongs to mr/mrs >>>>> last owner mr /mrs >>>>> .for example like a car in this country ?



No, and I'll explain why.

It's been proven that a registry has always been followed by confiscation. UK, Nazi Germany, Russia, etc...

Also, in the US, We can request documents through the Freedom of information act, that would include the gun registry. Would you want corporations, criminals, foreign governments knowing what guns you own?

[Pony]

No, and I'll explain why.

It's been proven that a registry has always been followed by confiscation. UK, Nazi Germany, Russia, etc...


As it's being proven in the first post of this thread.

If you would have said 5 years ago "Don't register your guns because the government might take them away" everyone would have looked at you like you were insane and paranoid. Now it's happening.

I would be 100% behind a mandatory registration if it could be guaranteed that it would not lead to more and stricter laws being passed ending in confiscation. Unfortunately state and federal laws seem to be written in chalk these days.

"They" learned a long time ago that if you can't get an outrageous law passed, start with a small step toward your goal and work your way there. BTW lets not even get into "hiding" stuff in unrelated bills you know will get passed.

[FBD]

I get a gun, you get a knife and we stand 20 feet apart to start. We'll assume because I'm holding the gun I have a vague idea of how it works, maybe I have even shot one before (I haven't).

Someone says go and I'll be firing at least 6 bullets in your direction. Even with all of your gumby-ninja skills I will injure you with as much exertion as it takes to squeeze a trigger. You on the other hand will have to get close enough to me to strike at arm's length, and you had better hope you're hitting some vital organs in that first thrust, because I'll be deflecting, moving away, cowering in fear, while you get all stabby on my ass with the knife.

the argument is about the ease of killing with each tool, not about marksmanship or knife skills. Two average people, one holding a gun, one holding a knife. There is no comparison or argument here about which one can kill another human being easier and faster.

I've shown you this before


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=9igSoJHEdUo

now, is our 20 feet meaning we're both at the ready, knife in my hand, gun in yours?

or is this going to be a real life situation where your firearm is concealed, hopefully not too tough to extract, is the safety on, one hot in the chamber ready to go? how fast do you think I can cover 20 feet, bro? the knife blade would be making a slash at you by the time you were able to get your weapon raised, unless you happen to already have your hand on it. where's your first shot going if you're also in the middle of defending against a blade? its going right up into the ceiling, or just about any other direction aside from at me, your attacker.

dont get me wrong, I'd rather be defending myself with a gun and I respect how powerful they are, but assuming it is this all powerful device that wins hands down really just ignores the entire proficiency of usage thing. the vid above was done with trained cops and they were having a hell of a time not sustaining multiple "lacerations" even if they were able to get their weapon pointed - at 20 feet ;) (and dont forget, if your weapon does even get close to raised, that first slash is going to be right across your knuckles/hand...so that first shot had better be a good one...)

just bein real, mah man. if you're using a firearm you'd better have some distance between you and that which you want to light up to holy hell, otherwise you might be lookin at a zimmer-martin scuffle at best. personally, I think if martin had a knife, zim would not have walked away from that one.

[Muddy]

:-s

:empathy:

[Muddy]

I've shown you this before


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=9igSoJHEdUo

now, is our 20 feet meaning we're both at the ready, knife in my hand, gun in yours?

or is this going to be a real life situation where your firearm is concealed, hopefully not too tough to extract, is the safety on, one hot in the chamber ready to go? how fast do you think I can cover 20 feet, bro? the knife blade would be making a slash at you by the time you were able to get your weapon raised, unless you happen to already have your hand on it. where's your first shot going if you're also in the middle of defending against a blade? its going right up into the ceiling, or just about any other direction aside from at me, your attacker.

dont get me wrong, I'd rather be defending myself with a gun and I respect how powerful they are, but assuming it is this all powerful device that wins hands down really just ignores the entire proficiency of usage thing. the vid above was done with trained cops and they were having a hell of a time not sustaining multiple "lacerations" even if they were able to get their weapon pointed - at 20 feet ;) (and dont forget, if your weapon does even get close to raised, that first slash is going to be right across your knuckles/hand...so that first shot had better be a good one...)

just bein real, mah man. if you're using a firearm you'd better have some distance between you and that which you want to light up to holy hell, otherwise you might be lookin at a zimmer-martin scuffle at best. personally, I think if martin had a knife, zim would not have walked away from that one.

First that's Dan Inansanto, what do you expect? Second, You're missing the point..

[Loser]

Every cop, every single one working inside the USA today, is taught the 21 foot rule.

[Muddy]

No more from you , Loser.. You still owe me a Jeep for $69 in a crate..

[Loser]

:lol:

[FBD]

First that's Dan Inansanto, what do you expect? Second, You're missing the point..

My name's Dan too, you sayin' I aint fast, motherfucker? :razz: :lol: