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Teh One Who Knocks
12-23-2013, 01:13 PM
By: Laura Kane - The Toronto Star


http://i.imgur.com/Sv4U05l.jpg

Pedophilia has been widely viewed as a psychological disorder triggered by early childhood trauma.

Now, many experts see it as a biologically rooted condition that does not change — like a sexual orientation — thanks largely to a decade of research by Dr. James Cantor at the Centre for Addiction and Mental Health.

Cantor’s team has found that pedophiles share a number of physical characteristics, including differences in brain wiring. It’s now thought that about 1 to 5 per cent of men are pedophiles, meaning they are primarily attracted to children.

These findings have been widely accepted among scientists, but have had little impact on social attitudes or law. However, we are left with the alarming question: if some men are born pedophiles, what should society do with them?

Bolstered by this research, pedophiles who have never molested children are seeking social acceptance.

‘We can resist’

Ethan Edwards has always loved little girls.

For years, he told himself his feelings were protective and loving, nothing more. But when he hit 50, he found he couldn’t stifle his desires any longer.

“I realized that young girls certainly took my breath away, more than grown-ups are usually charmed by kids,” he says.

Edwards, using a pseudonym, wrote about this realization on Virtuous Pedophiles, a website he co-founded for pedophiles who have never molested children. The group says their attraction is one they were born with and cannot change, but can control.

Edwards says the goal of Virtuous Pedophiles is to prevent child abuse, by reducing the stigma against non-offender pedophiles.

“We do not choose to be attracted to children, and we cannot make that attraction go away,” reads the website, which has about 200 members.

“But we can resist the temptation to abuse children sexually, and many of us present no danger to children whatsoever. Yet we are despised for having a sexual attraction that we did not choose, cannot change, and successfully resist.”

The biology of pedophiles

Sitting inside his office at the College St. research hospital, Cantor is surrounded by books on sexology and eccentric decor — a framed sign that reads “Data Is My Porn,” a throw pillow that spells “penis” in Braille.

Down the hall at the Kurt Freund Phallometric Lab, Cantor’s research team conducts experiments on convicted sex offenders. The men view nude images of children and adults of both sexes, while a device measures blood flow to their penises.

The method, called phallometry and invented by Freund in the 1950s, accurately measures sexual interests in 90 per cent of men, Cantor says.

“It’s the most obvious test in the world,” he says. “The procedure gives us a relative measure of how he reacts to the adult categories versus the child categories.”

His team has found that pedophiles share many physical characteristics. They are shorter, on average, than other men. They are three times more likely to be left-handed or ambidextrous. Their IQs are about 10 to 15 points lower. Finally, they are more prone to childhood head injuries — which Cantor chalks up to a natural clumsiness.

These physical characteristics are determined before birth, so the explanation for pedophilia must be in part prenatal, Cantor says.

“It’s become harder and harder to explain pedophilia on just (early childhood events). It’s either purely biological or a mix of biological and experiential. But pure experience can’t explain these data.”

Cantor, an internationally respected clinical psychologist, has also conducted studies with sex offenders using MRIs. He has found they have less white matter — the connective tissue that carries messages to other parts of the brain — than other types of criminal offenders.

The evidence suggests pedophilia results from atypical wiring in the brain. Cantor calls it “cross-wiring”: the stimuli that usually evoke nurturing and protective reactions in adults is instead evoking sexual reactions in pedophiles.

Similar experiments are being conducted across the globe, most notably at Berlin’s Institute of Sexology and Sexual Medicine, but Cantor’s research has greatly influenced the view among researchers that pedophilia has a biological basis.

Pedophiles are thought to be overwhelmingly men. About a third of those men prefer boys, about a third prefer girls, and a third will be attracted to both.

Although female sex offenders exist, they are rare and it is more difficult to test their desires. Queen’s University sexologist Dr. Meredith Chiversconducted a similar genital-based test on women, but found, curiously, that females respond to everything — including images of bonobos copulating. (One theory is that during evolution, women developed this response as an automatic defence mechanism for rape.)

Some researchers disagree on whether the brain differences in pedophiles occurred before birth or in early development. Regardless, many are coming around to the view that pedophiles cannot be “cured” — but some can be stopped from molesting children.

Preventing child abuse

“Not all sex offenders who target children are pedophiles, and not all pedophiles are sex offenders,” says Dr. Michael Seto, a pedophilia expert and forensic researcher with the Royal Ottawa Health Care Group.

Seto, a former colleague of Cantor’s at CAMH, has found that only 50 to 60 per cent of convicted sex offenders are pedophiles. The rest have sexually abused children for reasons beyond attraction — personality disorders, chaotic households or violent impulses.

His research has focused on psychological traits shared by sex offenders, potentially providing insight into why some pedophiles molest children, while other “virtuous” pedophiles like Edwards are apparently able to control their urges.

Seto has found that sex offenders are much more likely to have a sexual abuse history than other types of criminal offenders. Certain traits, including impulsiveness, risk-taking behaviour, sexual preoccupation and lack of empathy, are also shared by sex offenders.

He has argued forcefully for pedophilia to be thought of as a sexual orientation — an idea he acknowledges is controversial, but hopes will actually help prevent child abuse.

“Right now, it’s really slanted so that the treatment services are for people who have gotten into trouble,” he says. “Obviously, we need that, but I think where there is a big gap is in terms of prevention. How do we reach people who are sexually attracted to children and are aware of it?”

One of the concerns with labelling pedophilia a sexual orientation is the potential for parallels to be drawn with homosexuality. Seto is quick to point out the difference between orientation based on age, and orientation based on gender.

However, if pedophilia was widely viewed as a sexual orientation, effective treatment could focus on self-regulation skills — avoiding acting on one’s urges — rather than trying in vain to change sexual preferences, he wrote in a research paper last year.

“Pedophiles will remain hidden if they continue to be hated and feared, which would impede efforts to better understand this sexual orientation and thereby prevent child sexual exploitation,” he wrote.

Mandatory reporting laws make it incredibly risky for pedophiles to tell therapists about their desires. In Canada, one is only required to report to the police if a specific child is at risk, but the laws can be misunderstood by mental health professionals, says Seto.

The Harper government recently announced tougher measures against child predators, including a public sex offender registry. Seto says this is misguided, given that the recidivism rate for convicted sex offenders is actually quite low, at about 10 to 15 per cent.

“One of the worries would be that would further drive individuals underground,” he says. “It could also lead to problems that decrease the likelihood they can successfully be integrated.”

Ironically, Cantor says the idea that pedophiles are born, not made, can be used to support opposing political views — some will say “lock ’em up and throw away the key,” while others will call for sympathy and therapy.

Cantor often receives emails from distraught men seeking guidance on controlling their desires. The side effect of strict mandatory reporting laws is that people don’t come in for help, he says.

Pedophiles among us

To the unassuming onlooker, Ethan Edwards leads an ordinary life in Pennsylvania. He is in his mid-50s and works as a software developer. He was married for more than a decade and raised three daughters. He is well-respected in his community.

But Edwards harbours a secret that, if exposed, threatens his entire livelihood and reputation. He is attracted to girls as young as 4 — and although he says he has never molested a child, his desire is enough to make him a monster in most people’s eyes.

“For me, the biggest problem with this is the isolation,” he says in an interview over Google Chat. “Everyone else thinks I’m sick and dangerous. Well, not everyone, but most of society.”

Edwards is actually a rarity among pedophiles, in that he managed to suppress his desires until he was middle-aged. Most pedophiles become aware of their urges at puberty or by the time they are young adults; many will describe their desires as romantic, not just sexual.

He is also able to maintain relationships with adult women — he says he was attracted to his wife while they were married. Perhaps surprisingly to some, he says he was never attracted to his daughters, citing an innate repulsion to incest.

Even now that he has accepted he is attracted to children, he swears that he will never act on his urges.

“I think it’s because my protective instinct towards children is so strong,” he says.

Edwards says he has never seen any child pornography. Instead he looks at seemingly innocuous photos of children — almost always wearing clothes, at least bathing suits. Cantor calls it “victimless,” although some might dispute that.

He launched his website with Nick Devin, also a middle-aged professional using a pseudonym, after meeting him on another support group, b4uact.org. Both felt sex with children was inherently wrong, and they wanted to create a website for other pedophiles with that view.

On Virtuous Pedophiles’s “First Words” page, pedophiles — many of them teenagers or young adults — describe their relief at finding the group.

“I am in my late 20s and have been dealing with unwanted attraction to young boys since I was a teenager,” writes one member. “Though I have never acted on these attractions with anyone, this is my primary sexual attraction, and it bothers me greatly. I have considered suicide many times.”

Many pedophiles online do not share the viewpoint of Edwards and Devin.

On some sites, anonymous writers advocate for lowering the age of consent.

“It should be clear to anyone with any grey matter that pedophilia is just another oppressed sexual orientation or interest, and age doesn’t somehow magically make consensual sex between two people into something evil,” writes one user.

Another writes: “Nobody will ever quite understand the pain that we feel . . . seeing and longing for something we love but cannot have . . . and if we reach for it . . . we are accused of being sadistic monsters who only want to hurt kids. It will not last forever. Things will change.”

Edwards says he is disturbed by the activists that are “pro-contact” and hopes that young, struggling pedophiles find his group first.

Goofy
12-23-2013, 01:14 PM
However, we are left with the alarming question: if some men are born pedophiles, what should society do with them?


Hang them :villagers:

Hal-9000
12-23-2013, 03:58 PM
Doesn't matter where the predisposition comes from, it's wrong.

DemonGeminiX
12-23-2013, 10:26 PM
I think a little negative reinforcement is in line for these people who find children attractive: Whenever they feel the urge, someone bashes their head in. Sooner or later, they won't feel the desire anymore.

Acid Trip
12-23-2013, 10:33 PM
Pedophilia is a sexual perversion, not an orientation.

RBP
12-23-2013, 11:38 PM
Pedophilia is a sexual perversion, not an orientation.

How do you define orientation then? And is a perversion different than a proclivity?

Hal-9000
12-23-2013, 11:48 PM
I read the article as - orientation is something biological


like saying I have an orientation towards rape....which is still wrong no matter what the origin of the urge

RBP
12-24-2013, 03:37 AM
I read the article as - orientation is something biological

like saying I have an orientation towards rape....which is still wrong no matter what the origin of the urge


Orientation implies biologic origins, yes. Sexual preference implies choice. I don't think those are strict lines, but it does beg the question of how to handle pedophiles.

I hope AT responds because I generally find that perversion is a term used with puritanical or political intent.

Mind you, homosexuality was classified as a psychiatric disorder as pedophilia is now in the DSM. To be clear, I draw a distinction between the innate desire and child molestation.

Acid Trip
12-24-2013, 02:13 PM
How do you define orientation then? And is a perversion different than a proclivity?

Orientation is choosing who you have sex with. You cannot choose to have sex with a child because it is illegal. That makes it a perversion of what a sexual relationship should be.

Vixen
12-24-2013, 02:26 PM
Doesn't matter which way you look at it, they're still sick disgusting bastards and no amount of torture would be good enough, the vilest death you could possibly dream up would still be to good for them. There is no reason or excuse which would ever be acceptable or justify pedophilia imho

Lambchop
12-24-2013, 02:55 PM
Did you guys know that the prophet Muhammad married a girl age 6 and had sex with her when she was 9?

RBP
12-24-2013, 03:17 PM
Orientation is choosing who you have sex with. You cannot choose to have sex with a child because it is illegal. That makes it a perversion of what a sexual relationship should be.

Sorry, but that's a bit myopic. Do you really believe that sexual orientation is purely a choice for everyone? As if everyone is sexually attracted to everyone else but we limit our choices? And who we are sexually attracted to is not a matter of legality. Actions may be limited in some cases, but generally laws do not dictate sexual acts. Homosexuality is illegal in some countries, even punishable by death. Sodomy is still illegal in some locales in the US. Ages of consent vary widely, and can be waived with parental permission. People still have homosexual, and other non-vaginal sex in places where it is illegal. You seem to imply that since those acts are illegal, a person cannot have a sexual orientation towards engaging in them. Really?

I am stuck on "what a sexual relationship should be." Okay, so what should it be? Heteronormative, Americanized, and Puritanical? Vaginal only for the purpose of breeding? Everything else is a perversion? And who decides that? Is there a universal standard that should be applied to all countries? Maybe it's God's laws. Oh wait, shit, which god and who's interpretation of his rules do we use? Taliban?

Lastly, the story does not define the terms very well, so we should probably be specific. Pedophilia is prepubescent. Hebephilia is 11-14 pubescent. 15-19 is Ephebophila. The last one is fascinating since it crosses legal boundaries. A large portion of porn is 18-19 year olds and given the number of "teen" oriented websites, obviously of massive interest.

PorkChopSandwiches
12-24-2013, 03:41 PM
Your a pervert RBP come with me.

Acid Trip
12-24-2013, 04:15 PM
I am stuck on "what a sexual relationship should be."

One, it's not myopic at all. I'll explain.

A sexual relationship is anything you want it to be within the limits of the law (Libertarian point of view). And yes, your orientation is who you CHOOSE to have sex with. If a gay male didn't choose to fuck men then why did he do it? Actions = choice. Sexual actions without choice = rape. Someone might say "I didn't choose to be gay". Ummm, yes you did. Just like I chose to be straight. I like fucking women and they like fucking men. Those are our choices and plays into our sexual orientation.

A perversion is doing something outside the limits of the law. Pedophilia is one example. Being a Peeping Tom is another. It's not illegal to watch someone undress but it is illegal if they didn't give you permission to watch.

Want to cut each other? Fine. Want to tie each other up? Fine. Want to put it in your buddies ass? Fine. All legal and valid sexual experiences if all parties agree.

KevinD
12-24-2013, 04:30 PM
Hmm, tough issue here. RBP brought up many of the same points I was going to. Especially about the different classifications. It wasn't all that long ago that girls in the hebephillia range were being married off, and girls in the Ephebophila range were considered old maids. What changed? Social mores as a group, not that this was a bad thing, evolved over time. Now, folks who are doing no different than many did as little as 100 years ago in this country are reviled. There are time where I wish I had taken a different route in education, because why things like this happen are fascinating to me. I have more to say, but on plane now, and have to turn phone off

Godfather
12-24-2013, 11:39 PM
If a gay male didn't choose to fuck men then why did he do it? Actions = choice.

And at what age did you make the choice to be straight :huh:

I've liked girls since before I could remember. My gay friends who I went to school with have been gay since before they or their classmates had any clue what was going on. It was long before sex was a factor, before puberty, before the first grade even. Homosexuality exists in the animal Kingdom and nature and as far as I'll ever be convinced you can be born gay.

I've spent a lot less time considering whether I can believe pedophilia as a sexual orientation but I do believe it. Sadly I don't think there is any way to send them to camp and change their minds. Like psychopaths they may be damaged on a biological/chemical level and I don't know what you do with them except lock them away.

DemonGeminiX
12-25-2013, 12:44 AM
Like psychopaths they may be damaged on a biological/chemical level and I don't know what you do with them except lock them away.

Crucifixion. :thumbsup:

Griffin
12-25-2013, 01:12 AM
Use semantics and glorify it any way you want but it's the same as the guy that says he robbed to feed his kids.
They know it's not right, it's illegal and they should be removed from society.

DemonGeminiX
12-25-2013, 02:08 AM
I think a robber that's doing what he does to feed his kids is a bit higher on the totem pole than a pedophile is. The robber's actions are intended to benefit his family, however wrong those actions may be. There's an honorable end in sight: caring for his family. It doesn't legally justify his actions, they're still wrong, but it's not like he was just robbing people just because he felt the desire to.

The pedophile's actions benefit no one, there is no honorable end. It's just wrong all the way around, no matter how you reason through it.

Two different levels of evil here. Apples and oranges, I think.

Griffin
12-25-2013, 02:25 AM
point taken, but wrong is still wrong.

PorkChopSandwiches
12-25-2013, 04:35 AM
The pedophile's actions benefit no one, there is no honorable end.
.

I think one person benefits

Godfather
12-25-2013, 06:17 AM
I think a robber that's doing what he does to feed his kids is a bit higher on the totem pole than a pedophile is. The robber's actions are intended to benefit his family, however wrong those actions may be. There's an honorable end in sight: caring for his family. It doesn't legally justify his actions, they're still wrong, but it's not like he was just robbing people just because he felt the desire to.

The pedophile's actions benefit no one, there is no honorable end. It's just wrong all the way around, no matter how you reason through it.

Two different levels of evil here. Apples and oranges, I think.

Couldn't agree more. I had a 'friend' who stole cheese in college. He was a strange piece of shit, I don't forgive or apologize him, but he was just a weird dude who felt cheese was overpriced and his right to steal.

I've never met a pedophile but if I did I think they'd creep me out and I'd have an incapable need to strangle them. I think they're very damage human beings, no logical or reasoning to it.

RBP
12-25-2013, 06:46 AM
You know, I feel like the emotions get in the way. I agree with GF that sexual orientation is sometimes, but fairly rarely, a choice. Yes, I could choose to resist my urge to have sex with women, but realistically I won't. Let's be honest, if it's adult heterosexuals we are discussing this with, we ask questions like, "getting any pussy?" or make statements like "goddam I need some pussy!" It's the same for women, they speak the same language, regardless of whether male attempts to place them on a pedestal make us believe otherwise. Am I choosing to have sex with women? Of course I am. But do I have a choice? Not really. (Unless I should pray the heterosexuality away, that might be helpful.)

All I am suggesting is that we step back from this issue. Hang them, shoot them, put them away. Okay, fine, I get that. But we have created a false cultural expectation. Hear me out. The "Stranger Danger" program has been shown to be false and counter productive. The sexual offender registry is an abject failure, to the point that the group responsible for it's inception, the Jacob Wetterling Foundation, has changed it's view.

So rather than try and understand the root cause, we would rather be ill-informed observers whose only answer is identify and kill? Really? Why aren't we interested in what makes then tick? Why aren't we interested in prevention? Why shouldn't we take a proactive stance to say these people exist, and it is in everyone's best interest to assist them in leading normal productive lives?

The answer is because we aren't, as a society, really that interested in solutions. We would rather keep our collective heads in the sand and wait for the opportunity to make vile comments from the safety of our keyboard while surfing porn on other tabs. Porn that would be banned in other countries. Porn that we'd be embarrassed for people to know makes us cum. Ironic, really.

Acid Trip
12-26-2013, 02:48 PM
And at what age did you make the choice to be straight :huh:

I've liked girls since before I could remember. My gay friends who I went to school with have been gay since before they or their classmates had any clue what was going on. It was long before sex was a factor, before puberty, before the first grade even. Homosexuality exists in the animal Kingdom and nature and as far as I'll ever be convinced you can be born gay.

I've spent a lot less time considering whether I can believe pedophilia as a sexual orientation but I do believe it. Sadly I don't think there is any way to send them to camp and change their minds. Like psychopaths they may be damaged on a biological/chemical level and I don't know what you do with them except lock them away.

I never made the choice to be straight. I made the choice that I find women more sexually appealing than men. Society calls that "being straight".

RBP
12-27-2013, 01:49 AM
I never made the choice to be straight. I made the choice that I find women more sexually appealing than men. Society calls that "being straight".

No you didn't. I am sorry, I don't mean to be rude. You have this notion that your choice is natural and anyone else's choice is a perversion. Really?

As if it is a choice to begin with.

Griffin
12-27-2013, 02:01 AM
As if it is a choice to begin with.

Of course there is a choice.
The only choice not given from birth is rather you have a cock or not, but even that can now be changed by ones decision.

It has always been up to the owner as to where they stick their cock.

RBP
12-27-2013, 02:05 AM
Of course there is a choice.
The only choice not given from birth is rather you have a cock or not, but even that can now be changed by ones decision.

It has always been up to the owner as to where they stick their cock.

Ok, back up. Of course the individual decision of what hole in which to stick your cock is a choice. What we are discussing is the establishment of the potential pool of holes.

Griffin
12-27-2013, 02:09 AM
The potential pool is only male or female, then the sub category of rather the recipient is old enough to consent, or did I miss something.

RBP
12-27-2013, 02:25 AM
The potential pool is only male or female, then the sub category of rather the recipient is old enough to consent, or did I miss something.

The potential pool is any proclivity, any variation of gender, any form of monogamy or non-monogamy. We limit choices based on far more than male vs female.

Griffin
12-27-2013, 02:38 AM
The basis has only spread that far so that people no longer have to except responsibility for their actions.
It is much easier to blame outside forces beyond ones control than to say you're a fuck-up, or at least that is what the lawyers and therapists that make their living off of victims claim.

RBP
12-27-2013, 02:49 AM
The basis has only spread that far so that people no longer have to except responsibility for their actions.
It is much easier to blame outside forces beyond ones control than to say you're a fuck-up, or at least that is what the lawyers and therapists that make their living off of victims claim.

What? That's ridiculous. I never said a word about excusing bad behavior. But in the context of this discussion, I can only assume you believe that any desire that doesn't meet your definition is a failure of people to accept responsibility for their actions.

Acid Trip
12-27-2013, 04:04 PM
No you didn't. I am sorry, I don't mean to be rude. You have this notion that your choice is natural and anyone else's choice is a perversion. Really?

As if it is a choice to begin with.

Where in the flying fuck did you get that from? It's like you haven't read a single thing I've said.

I made it very clear that when something is illegal it is a perversion of a sexual relationship. Being a Peeping Tom is illegal and therefore a perversion. Having sex with a 10 yr old is illegal and perverts a natural sexual relationship.

Being gay is not perversion. Having group sex isn't and neither is S&M. Anything that consenting adults do to each other (within the boundaries of the law) is a "normal" sexual relationship.

And yes, the people you choose to have sex with is your choice. I choose to have sex with women. Gay men choose to have sex with other men.

Do you really think we don't choose who to have as sexual partners? I guess there is no free will, it's all fate, and we could never change our sexual preference. That's ridiculous.

RBP
12-28-2013, 04:02 PM
Where in the flying fuck did you get that from? It's like you haven't read a single thing I've said.

I made it very clear that when something is illegal it is a perversion of a sexual relationship. Being a Peeping Tom is illegal and therefore a perversion. Having sex with a 10 yr old is illegal and perverts a natural sexual relationship.

Being gay is not perversion. Having group sex isn't and neither is S&M. Anything that consenting adults do to each other (within the boundaries of the law) is a "normal" sexual relationship.

And yes, the people you choose to have sex with is your choice. I choose to have sex with women. Gay men choose to have sex with other men.

Do you really think we don't choose who to have as sexual partners? I guess there is no free will, it's all fate, and we could never change our sexual preference. That's ridiculous.

We can agree to disagree on using a legal standard to determine perversion. I don't think that's a reasonable view because laws differ county to county, state to state, country to country. Sodomy laws are ridiculous, but you seem to equate acceptable sexuality with law. You can't say that all illegal acts are unacceptable, and then turn around and say what happens in the bedroom is nobody's business.

Now on choice... yes, we all choose with whom we have consensual sex, of course. We do not, however, generally choose what we are attracted to. That's generally innate. Some are attracted to the same sex, some the opposite, some both, some neither. That is unlikely to be a choice. The individual contacts within that group of attraction is a choice, yes. Can people choose outside their orientation? Yes, as many homosexuals do for fear of social reprisal. Does that change that they are gay or have a homosexual orientation? Not in the slightest.

The point of this thread was to consider if pedophilia is a sexual orientation. An innate attraction. Whether they choose to have sex with children is up to them, but it doesn't change their orientation. Perhaps if we viewed it differently, we could have a better chance of protecting potential victims and turning around wayward lives. I don't know, but it's worth considering.

Lambchop
12-29-2013, 12:31 AM
As a young man I'm designed to seek out the freshest and most fertile vagina available. There are some visual markers that indicate when a female is fertile (pubic hair, breast development, menstruation, hip widening, etc.). Society will also set the boundaries on what is legal, with varying ages of consent around the world. I also think that empathy plays a part, in that a healthy adult will look upon a child and see their innocence and vulnerabilities and want to protect and preserve this.

I think it's fair to say that structural and chemical abnormalities within the brain/CNS can lead to socially unacceptable actions. We know that some brain tumours can negatively impact a person's personality and behaviour.

Griffin
12-29-2013, 03:29 AM
As a father who has had to console his preteen daughter that was molested and raped by her moms boyfriend, unsure whether you should even try to hug them without bringing up nightmares that she has endured, gone through the therapy sessions that are supposed to help with her suicidal urges and rebuild the self esteem stolen from her, I can say from personal belief that these monsters act only on the ability to control their victims.
It has nothing to do with sexual orientation, not because their mom didn't breast feed them or that their dad spanked them. It is because they choose to manipulate and control someone weaker than them.
I had the choice not to blow the fuckers brains out... not that he didn't deserve it but because a 12 year old girl said she didn't want to have to visit me in prison.

10 years later I still feel like I let my little girl down by not killing the bastard that our judicial system protects, but I still pray that God will make the sick fuck suffer in eternity.

PorkChopSandwiches
12-29-2013, 03:36 AM
Damn. Sorry, that's my worst fear.

Muddy
12-29-2013, 03:46 AM
Thats some pretty tough stuff, Griff.. I can only..fuck, i don't know what to say.. Maybe... that I can totally understand your want to rectify that situation..

DemonGeminiX
12-29-2013, 04:50 AM
My apologies to you Grif for what you and your daughter have gone through.

It's not an orientation. It's a mental disorder. When you know an impulse you have is wrong by legal and social standards, yet you can't control yourself from acting upon that impulse, regardless if your action is voluntary or not, that is a defect. When you can't convince yourself that it's wrong like the rest of society does, it's a defect. Calling it an orientation gives people who have these impulses the excuse to believe that it's right, and I personally cannot agree that that should come to pass. When you know something is wrong, it's wrong, period, end of. No excuses should be allowed to be made. When you start making excuses for the wrong actions and behaviors, you set a precedent that should not be set, ever. It opens too many doors to other beliefs, behaviors, and actions that go against everything we consider to be decent and humane.

Hal-9000
12-29-2013, 07:52 PM
As a father who has had to console his preteen daughter that was molested and raped by her moms boyfriend, unsure whether you should even try to hug them without bringing up nightmares that she has endured, gone through the therapy sessions that are supposed to help with her suicidal urges and rebuild the self esteem stolen from her, I can say from personal belief that these monsters act only on the ability to control their victims.
It has nothing to do with sexual orientation, not because their mom didn't breast feed them or that their dad spanked them. It is because they choose to manipulate and control someone weaker than them.
I had the choice not to blow the fuckers brains out... not that he didn't deserve it but because a 12 year old girl said she didn't want to have to visit me in prison.

10 years later I still feel like I let my little girl down by not killing the bastard that our judicial system protects, but I still pray that God will make the sick fuck suffer in eternity.


Sorry to hear Grif. My niece was molested while with her Mom at a hotel in Disneyland...of all the fucking places. Dude in an elevator, she made noise and got away but he'd done enough...

My brother flew down that night for a meeting with the cops and the hotel owners. They insisted he do nothing and made sure he was escorted everywhere he traveled while in LA. Brother found out that they had a security camera image of the dude, from a prior assault at the same place. Hotel owners and cops never posted the image or a warning...and that made both me and my bro absolutely livid.

Reason I bring it up is because my brother being the Dad was almost handcuffed from taking any action. I on the other hand just was approved for a line of credit, had bought a new car and didn't care much about my life here. I wanted to go down and stake out the hotel for as long as necessary...I don't mind saying it took everything I had not to buy that plane ticket..I was truly a guy with nothing to lose...

when my niece went through therapy she requested that I be there for some sessions, because she didn't trust other male figures..even her Dad...getting near her physically. She's ok now because she's a tough kid....but it always reminds me of what I was thinking at the time:

Pedophiles are like serial killers...no matter how fucked up mentally they are, or what the origin of the activity is....they still know on some deeper level that he action is wrong. That's why they go to such great lengths to hide it. I wanted to find that guy, put him in a chair and hurt him for 3 days...until he couldn't physically hurt any more kids....and my niece's shrink told me that beatings and fear tactics rarely change the behavior in fuckwads like that...ultimately part of me is glad I didn't hunt the guy because I recall thinking of things to do to him and part of me was gearing up to enjoy it..

Hal-9000
12-29-2013, 08:09 PM
I guess part of my point from that personal post above is, through therapists and doing some volunteer work in a related area, I learned that pedophiles/abusers/even serial killers.. all share one thing: they have to lead two lives. And that part of the equation indicates that they know the actions they commit are wrong. Unlike true sociopaths, who rarely feel guilt or responsibility for their actions, molesters feel remorse and shame at times during the act, and certainly when they're caught.

I agree with most here...when someone knows what they're doing is wrong, and go to great lengths to keep the activity a secret, they have enough going on upstairs to realize the action is bad and needs to be controlled. I have no sympathy for people like that unless it's part of a larger mental illness where they don't understand it's wrong.