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View Full Version : Don't treat young men like sex-crazed monsters



Teh One Who Knocks
01-31-2014, 12:39 PM
Ally Fogg - The Guardian


Shortly before 8pm on Tuesday, in one of those bumbling, bureaucratic anticlimaxes that are a trademark of the upper house, the Lords dashed hopes for reform of sex and relationships education (SRE) in English schools. Proposed amendments to the children and families bill would have mandated a working party to modernise guidelines on SRE in the age of digital technology, and ensured that all state-funded schools, including academies and free schools, are obliged to teach SRE.

Advocates of reform, inside parliament and beyond, vowed to continue the fight. So they must. Last summer it emerged that dozens of schools continue to use materials drawn up in the homophobic era of Section 28. Provision elsewhere is patchy, and subject to the whims or religious convictions of school management or governors. A survey published this month by the Sex Education Forum found that 27% of young people rated their SRE as bad or very bad. Meanwhile, curious and horny teenagers are a click away from the internet's infinite orgiastic banquet, and innovations in communications technology promise endless new opportunities to be exploited – in every sense. Educators simply must keep up.

In one crucial respect I hope the next phase of the campaign can move on. The recent political and media narrative has focused on one very specific angle. The Times put it thus: "Boys need to be taught how to treat girls." In the Guardian, Rhiannon Lucy Cosslett recounted a litany of abusive, occasionally bizarre sexual practices supposedly being inflicted by porn-obsessed teenage boys. And Labour MPs Yvette Cooper, Diana Johnson and Helen Jones framed the issue solely in terms of male violence against women.

In truth, the evidence for an upsurge in relationship violence and sexual violence between young people is anecdotal at most. Yes, young people are at high risk, but they always have been. Johnson and Jones, in their Huffington Post piece, fell back on research by the children's commissioner into girls' experiences with violent street gangs, which is horrifying in its own terms but says nothing about the lives of the vast majority of teenagers. It is one example of how ordinary young people's lives are typically viewed through a filter of the sensational and extreme.

My oldest son, now approaching 12, is at the start of the difficult trip through adolescence. I have many friends with boys a little older, and meet other young men in my community. I simply do not recognise the dominant media narrative in the young men I know. They are not sex-crazed monsters, treating girls as meat before casting them aside and moving on to the next one.

What I do see is teenagers much as they ever were – gauche and gawky, awkward and insecure, hormonal, hyper and sulky. They are sometimes inspirationally brilliant and funny, sometimes stupid and self-destructive, and occasionally frighteningly aggressive.

I see young men desperately looking around and soaking up messages and cultural models for how to behave as a "real" man, many of which are downright toxic. It concerns me deeply that the political narrative that portrays young men as sexually aggressive, abusive and violent can easily become part of the problem. Young men who are at heart compassionate, gentle and kind cannot be well-supported by being constantly told they are the exceptions, when they are very much the rule.

There is no evidence that internet pornography is driving a wave of teenage violence and abuse, but it would be foolish to imagine that it is not influencing sexual norms and expectations. Young people have to learn that in the real world not every sexual encounter lasts exactly 30 minutes, not everyone enjoys every sexual practice, most erections are not the size of a cucumber, and most plumbers don't arrive within 90 seconds of a call.

Boys and girls alike face a stressful journey through puberty and adolescence, and that includes navigating the risks of potentially violent or abusive partners. It is not an issue we can hide from or wish away, but nor is it the only issue. What has been missing from the recent debate is any sense that boys have their own issues requiring not just sympathy but attention, as an end in itself. They can be victims of exploitation and abuse. Young men have always worried about their sexual potency, prowess and attractiveness, their isolation and loneliness. Who is stopping to ask what impact ubiquitous internet porn is having on boys' own sexual insecurities and anxieties? Where do boys turn for emotional support, advice, guidance and reassurance? Certainly not to their mates, because the viciously policed norms of masculinity insist that we must never show weakness, vulnerability or fallibility.

In their advice to educators, the Sex Education Forum notes that boys have particular difficulties in admitting embarrassment or lack of knowledge, expertise and experience. They will often become disruptive and snigger rather than ask the questions they desperately want answered. And yet when surveyed, the same high proportion of boys and girls admit to being uninformed about crucial issues such as negotiating consent and happy relationships.

Teenage boys communicate almost entirely in braggadocio and bullshit. To do otherwise is to expose oneself to emasculating ridicule. It should be no surprise that a 2009 report by ChildLine noted that boys were more likely than girls to call about being sexually abused; nearly twice as likely to call asking about "the facts of life"; and six times as likely to call with worries about their sexuality. Where else can they turn when their schools are failing them?

Yes, children need proper sex and relationships education that acknowledges and reflects their world. Yes, let's teach children about enthusiastic consent, about mutual pleasure, about the true spectrum of sexualities and sexual pleasures in all their exciting, passionate, awkward, embarrassing, funny and often elusive glory. Let's start from the basis that all young people deserve empathy, support and education – not because they can cause pain and hurt, but because they can feel pain and hurt.

Muddy
01-31-2014, 05:39 PM
Jesus.. All those fricking words.. :d

Hal-9000
01-31-2014, 07:22 PM
3 words...

ed-u-cation

:thumbsup:

Hugh_Janus
01-31-2014, 08:17 PM
http://heahea.org/img/2033-I_told_that_teachin_lady.jpg

PorkChopSandwiches
01-31-2014, 11:01 PM
This is why I have my son learn about sex through Max Hardcore videos, you know, so he knows how to treat a woman

Hal-9000
01-31-2014, 11:03 PM
This is why I have my son learn about sex through Max Hardcore videos, you know, so he knows how to treat a woman

Here comes the ice cream you little bitch...that's it, take all of daddy's load and then drink your own pee like a good little girl :x

:thumbsup:

PorkChopSandwiches
01-31-2014, 11:05 PM
If she doesn't puke while blowing you, she's doing it wrong

Hal-9000
01-31-2014, 11:10 PM
nothing like the warm cascade of vomit running down your balls :lol:

RBP
02-01-2014, 04:37 AM
This is the new way of the world and the point I have been making repeatedly for years. It is all coming to fruition. The feminist viewpoint that men are to be feared in a culture of rape is so utterly ridiculous and counterproductive, I am stunned at how easily it has become mainstream. And that is just one point in the narrative, the entire novel is very scary indeed. We aren't graduating. We aren't making as much money out of school. We aren't progressing into managerial roles. All facts.

In part I do blame men. In the course of a systemic shift in gender roles to favor females at the disrespect, disenfranchise, and emasculate men, what do we do?

We make the same crude jokes we always make. As the author noted, "boys communicate almost entirely in braggadocio and bullshit. To do otherwise is to expose oneself to emasculating ridicule." What we also do is fail to admit we've been beaten in this gender game, and stand up for ourselves and for the next generation of boys.

We can't do that! We would be called misogynists! Our friends would call us pussies! And *gasp* if our wives found out? Holy jesus, there would be hell to pay; I would never hear the end of it. I probably wouldn't get any pussy for months. Fuck that.

:|

Hal-9000
02-01-2014, 05:00 AM
This is the new way of the world and the point I have been making repeatedly for years. It is all coming to fruition. The feminist viewpoint that men are to be feared in a culture of rape is so utterly ridiculous and counterproductive, I am stunned at how easily it has become mainstream. And that is just one point in the narrative, the entire novel is very scary indeed. We aren't graduating. We aren't making as much money out of school. We aren't progressing into managerial roles. All facts.

In part I do blame men. In the course of a systemic shift in gender roles to favor females at the disrespect, disenfranchise, and emasculate men, what do we do?

We make the same crude jokes we always make. As the author noted, "boys communicate almost entirely in braggadocio and bullshit. To do otherwise is to expose oneself to emasculating ridicule." What we also do is fail to admit we've been beaten in this gender game, and stand up for ourselves and for the next generation of boys.

We can't do that! We would be called misogynists! Our friends would call us pussies! And *gasp* if our wives found out? Holy jesus, there would be hell to pay; I would never hear the end of it. I probably wouldn't get any pussy for months. Fuck that.

:|

I can only agree with part of that. I often get along better with groups of women than men...usually by not making the same crude jokes and boasts as the other guys. If I'm with a group of males and there's mixed company, I'm the guy telling the other guys to cool it or watch their mouths. I know that's only one part of your comment, but true nonetheless. Often women at work and from my social life have said that I'm different :lol: Everything from possibly bi, to extremely frustrating to pin down..

More than one lady has told me 'you're different', because I won't play into the gender roles one way or the other. Yes I'll open a door, but I'd do the same thing for you if we went out somewhere. I've never struggled with - how should I be - with a woman, where other male friends do. I understand the confusion because at times women seem to want us to be strong...yet vulnerable. They wants us to take charge, yet be open to compromise. It becomes difficult to pick a role and stick with it for 3 days in a row :lol: ...because things change (read - what your girl wants..) That's not a slam, I've seen it in at least 5 women I've dated.

Probably the only good advice I've given to a friend who was struggling with ' how to be' was this - Each woman is an individual, there is no blanket behavior that covers everything. Ask her, communicate and listen to her...and eventually you'll find out the things she responds to positively and otherwise. One day she may want you to take control, choose a dining spot, choose some entertainment and tell her she's coming. The next day she may want you to open up about your fears, things that bother you and that time Dad made you cry :lol:

Hal-9000
02-01-2014, 05:16 AM
and there's one thing women will never admit when criticizing men..


they curl their hair a little, maybe dye it....they put on a little make-up...they open their blouse a little...wear a skirt perhaps...


why?

even the most conservative woman I've been with had lacy underwear on....for comfort? because they were inexpensive?

noooo, it was for me :)


So women can call us misogynists, perverts, cavemen, insensitive...in the end it's still the flower attracting the bee

Hal-9000
02-01-2014, 05:17 AM
and oh yeah...if you got big tits this is gonna happen :wank:

RBP
02-01-2014, 05:32 AM
I can only agree with part of that. I often get along better with groups of women than men...usually by not making the same crude jokes and boasts as the other guys. If I'm with a group of males and there's mixed company, I'm the guy telling the other guys to cool it or watch their mouths. I know that's only one part of your comment, but true nonetheless. Often women at work and from my social life have said that I'm different :lol: Everything from possibly bi, to extremely frustrating to pin down..

More than one lady has told me 'you're different', because I won't play into the gender roles one way or the other. Yes I'll open a door, but I'd do the same thing for you if we went out somewhere. I've never struggled with - how should I be - with a woman, where other male friends do. I understand the confusion because at times women seem to want us to be strong...yet vulnerable. They wants us to take charge, yet be open to compromise. It becomes difficult to pick a role and stick with it for 3 days in a row :lol: ...because things change (read - what your girl wants..) That's not a slam, I've seen it in at least 5 women I've dated.

Probably the only good advice I've given to a friend who was struggling with ' how to be' was this - Each woman is an individual, there is no blanket behavior that covers everything. Ask her, communicate and listen to her...and eventually you'll find out the things she responds to positively and otherwise. One day she may want you to take control, choose a dining spot, choose some entertainment and tell her she's coming. The next day she may want you to open up about your fears, things that bother you and that time Dad made you cry :lol:

I don't disagree with you on an individual relationship level, but that's not the issue. I am looking at the bigger picture of the movement and trends and the statistical impacts.

Don't take my word for it... listen to the feminists.

Jessica Valenti is a vile person in my book, she is making the same old tired arguments that are so outdated I almost feel sorry for her. She came to fame with her book "Full Frontal Feminism" which basically teaches hate, but is revered as a bible for young girls.

The most honest one is probably Hanna Rosin, who open admits and revels in the defeat and destruction of men. She turned her article "The End of Men" in the Atlantic in 2010 into a book. http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2010/07/the-end-of-men/308135/

Open dissenters exist that question the role feminism plays and the subsequent destruction of male roles. Camille Paglia is probably the most well known, she a late 60's-aged feminist lesbian, art scholar, and social commentator. She's made some headlines recently for her comments questioning the intent and utility of feminist popularity. Other players who openly dissent are Christina Hoff Summers who was one of the first to turn me on to the systemic destruction of young boys in society and education. I have also started following Suzanne Venker recently.

In Canada there is a seemingly great forum that I haven't had the opportunity to explore. The Munk debates. I am going to donate for access to their debates on social issues. November, 2013, they held a debate with the subject "Be it resolved that men are obsolete..." Arguing pro was Hanna Rosin and Maureen Dowd. Arguing con was Camille Paglia and Caitlin Moran (who I am unfamiliar with for some reason?). It looks utterly fascinating.

RBP
02-01-2014, 05:34 AM
and there's one thing women will never admit when criticizing men..


they curl their hair a little, maybe dye it....they put on a little make-up...they open their blouse a little...wear a skirt perhaps...


why?

even the most conservative woman I've been with had lacy underwear on....for comfort? because they were inexpensive?

noooo, it was for me :)


So women can call us misogynists, perverts, cavemen, insensitive...in the end it's still the flower attracting the bee


Probably not. It was for herself: she feels more attractive and sexy. To your advantage that she does, yes, but not likely the main motivator.

Hal-9000
02-01-2014, 05:42 PM
Probably not. It was for herself: she feels more attractive and sexy. To your advantage that she does, yes, but not likely the main motivator.

she shaves her legs for me [-(

RBP
02-02-2014, 01:03 AM
she shaves her legs for me [-(

Uh huh.

Hal-9000
02-02-2014, 07:26 PM
When girls don't shave their legs I often ask them to get into a semi-fetal position, bend their knees slightly and then briskly rub their legs together....then I call them - my little cricket :)

that's usually the time the grasshopper bitches punch me :lol:

deebakes
02-02-2014, 07:28 PM
:rofl:

Hal-9000
02-02-2014, 07:30 PM
*sings*

I'm single for life, I'll never have a wife
I walk the path alone, just me and my little bone
Love the girls and they love meeeeeee,
Just raise the set after you you pee :)

*then get out