American Atheists Don't Want "Miracle Cross" At 9/11 Museum

[Teh One Who Knocks]

By Jared Keever - Opposing Views


http://i.imgur.com/HJ2oLjk.jpg

A federal judge heard arguments Thursday regarding the fate of the “Miracle Cross” and its inclusion in the National Sept. 11 Memorial and Museum.

Edwin Kagin, attorney for American Atheists, argued before the judge that the cross was a religious symbol and had no place on government owned land. The museum is to be opened on land owned by the The Port Authority of New York and New Jersey.

The cross is a 17-foot-tall structure of crossed beams that was found in the rubble of the World Trade Center following the 2001 terrorist attacks. It quickly became a symbol of comfort for the rescue workers who were looking for survivors in the days after the attack.

Supporters of the cross, including Eric Baxter of the Becket Fund for Religious Liberty, say the cross is a part of history and should be included in the museum.

“Museums don’t censor history, they don’t make up history,” Baxter was quoted as saying in a CBS New York story. "They tell history as it happened and the cross is part of the history and the plaque is not."

American Atheists have argued that if the cross is allowed a plaque should also be on display in the museum saying something to the effect of “atheists died here, too.”

“We’re arguing for equal treatment in some way, whatever that might be,” Kagin said.

Judge Reena Raggi has not yet written an opinion but signaled that she may come down on the side of those who would like to see the cross included.

“There are countless cases of museums including religious artifacts among their exhibits and it’s going to be described in a way that talks about the history of the object, what is the problem here?” she said. “An argument has been made that you are trying to censor history.”

Frank Silecchia was the construction worker who discovered the crossed beams in the wreckage that day. He has said in the past that the structure comforted him.

“I was already working 12 hours,” Silecchia said. “I was quite weary and the cross comforted me. I never stood here before any media and said it’s about religion. But I say it’s about faith — the faith that was crushed on 9/11.”

The museum is scheduled to open in May. It is unclear whether Raggi will issue a ruling by the time the museum opens.

[Griffin]

What's the big deal? There's plenty of room around it so atheist still have their "nothingness" memorial space.

[Goofy]

Bit late to worry about things like this when the entire currency of the US has "In God we trust" written on it :lol:

[Teh One Who Knocks]

Atheists have officially become more obnoxious and annoying than the bible thumping Christians. Fucking attention whores.

[Griffin]

yet they still talk to god while having an orgasm. :doggybanana:

[Muddy]

If a big chunk of society gets some comfort from the cross being there, whats the big deal? Is it hurting someone? geezy weezy.. smh

[Hal-9000]

a cross for me, represents a grave memorial and Christianity....in two separate ways

[Noilly Pratt]

“We’re arguing for equal treatment in some way, whatever that might be,” Kagin said.
What they seem to be saying is that they demand a monument to the atheists who perished, but that is not what a museum is for. It's just presenting a piece of the wreckage that looked like something else, that caused some to pause and wonder that its shape was similar to a christian symbol, and gave comfort to some because of that fact.

If the Atheists had this a symbol, and somewhere in the twisted wreckage there was something that resembled it, then great, display that too. But you don't, and there wasn't so there.

Maybe one of them should start a movement that " / " is their symbol. There was plenty of support beams in the wreckage, I'll bet. Or maybe that weird Glyph that Prince used to use - he isn't using it anymore.

[Muddy]

Or maybe they should just shut the fuck up.

[PorkChopSandwiches]

Maybe everyone should shut the fuck up and put nothing there

[Hal-9000]

put up a lifesize representation of The Statue of Liberty, facing east, flipping the bird :)



*and she's wearing a cross around her neck

[Muddy]

Maybe everyone should shut the fuck up and put nothing there

If a big chunk of society gets some comfort from the cross being there, whats the big deal? Is it hurting someone? Where is the harm? All I see is a closed minded intolerance from a bunch of angry and bitter blowhard atheists.. Choose your battles wisely.. This one is about productive as Westboro Baptist church picketing a soldiers funeral.

[PorkChopSandwiches]

My point is why do they feel the need to force their views on everyone else every chance they get

[PorkChopSandwiches]

Im not going to make any effort protesting these things other then here, but I do find it annoying ( i just dont care enough). Plus dont you imagine a lot of jews would have been in that building, isnt that offensive to them

[DemonGeminiX]

They're not forcing their views on everyone else. No one's forcing your eyes open and holding your head in that direction. If you don't like it, don't look at it. But don't sit there and say they don't have a right to put this stuff up because they have every right in this country to express their faith using whatever means at their disposal.

You guys aren't making anything better. You're just making yourselves look like the bad guys.

[Muddy]

My point is why do they feel the need to force their views on everyone else every chance they get

Im not going to make any effort protesting these things other then here, but I do find it annoying ( i just dont care enough). Plus dont you imagine a lot of jews would have been in that building, isnt that offensive to them


How are they forcing their views? And how is a cross offensive to Jews? He didn't try and kill them! :lol: I don't think they are asking patrons to attend a church service or swear allegiance to Christ.. Or even look at the thing for that matter.. It's about helping some people cope with a national tragedy..

[Lambchop]

What about a Star of David for all the fallen Jews?

[Muddy]

What about a Star of David for all the fallen Jews?

Did they find a "miracle star of David" in the debris? :lol:



By Jared Keever - Opposing Views
“Museums don’t censor history, they don’t make up history,” Baxter was quoted as saying in a CBS New York story. "They tell history as it happened and the cross is part of the history and the plaque is not."

[Hal-9000]

yeah I always love hearing - forcing their views, ramming it down my throat, etc...

I've never met a Christian who forced me to do anything.

[Lambchop]

I've never met a Christian who forced me to do anything.
Father Tony at my Catholic school forced some of the young boys to sit on his lap :-k

[Hal-9000]

Father Tony at my Catholic school forced some of the young boys to sit on his lap :-k

Alter(ed) Boy :)

[PorkChopSandwiches]

yeah I always love hearing - forcing their views, ramming it down my throat, etc...

I've never met a Christian who forced me to do anything.

At the end of the day they are displaying a symbol of their faith, for the public to see. What else is that meant to do?

[DemonGeminiX]

At the end of the day they are displaying a symbol of their faith, for the public to see. What else is that meant to do?

:hand:

Displaying a symbol of their faith is protected speech. It's not hurting you or any other Atheist, Mr. "I have my kids enrolled in a Christian School."

Freedom of religion is NOT freedom from religion. The clause states that people can practice any religion they want, and can rest assured that they won't be persecuted for it by the government or any other authority in the USA. It seems the Atheists are the ones doing all of the persecuting.

[Hal-9000]

At the end of the day they are displaying a symbol of their faith, for the public to see. What else is that meant to do?

for me anyways...it's like I mentioned. A cross (especially this one) is a symbol marking a loss or a grave. I don't automatically associate a cross with Jesus, crucifixion etc.

and if a visible symbol offends your sensibilities that much, the same could be said with Jewish stars, Muslim symbols and signs denoting Atheist meeting halls....shall we remove every sign or symbol from public view, because a person walked by for all of 3 seconds, saw it and then had some sort of mysterious horrible reaction?

[PorkChopSandwiches]

:hand:

Displaying a symbol of their faith is protected speech. It's not hurting you or any other Atheist, Mr. "I have my kids enrolled in a Christian School."

Freedom of religion is NOT freedom from religion. The clause states that people can practice any religion they want, and can rest assured that they won't be persecuted for it by the government or any other authority in the USA. It seems the Atheists are the ones doing all of the persecuting.

Which is fine in a private setting, my argument is that this is being done on government property, which makes it look as if the government favors one religion over the other


for me anyways...it's like I mentioned. A cross (especially this one) is a symbol marking a loss or a grave. I don't automatically associate a cross with Jesus, crucifixion etc.

and if a visible symbol offends your sensibilities that much, the same could be said with Jewish stars, Muslim symbols and signs denoting Atheist meeting halls....shall we remove every sign or symbol from public view, because a person walked by for all of 3 seconds, saw it and then had some sort of mysterious horrible reaction?

It doesn't offend me personally, Im just saying this is a specific symbol of a specific religion, that is all ;)

[Hal-9000]

Yes but you attack anything religious...religiously :)

[PorkChopSandwiches]

Yes but you attack anything religious...religiously :)

:hand: Its only because I hate it

[Muddy]

Which is fine in a private setting, my argument is that this is being done on government property, which makes it look as if the government favors one religion over the other



It doesn't offend me personally, Im just saying this is a specific symbol of a specific religion, that is all ;)

But it's a historical object from the site... Put on your thinking cap, man! This isn't just a cross people are trying to display or ram up someones ass.. It was found at the site after the tragedy.. It is a historical object that has meaning to the majority of the American public.. :lol:

[Hal-9000]

:hand: Its only because I hate it

:raydonovan:

[Hal-9000]

But it's a historical object from the site... Put on your thinking cap, man! This isn't just a cross people are trying to display or ram up someones ass.. It was found at the site after the tragedy.. It is a historical object that has meaning to the majority of the American public.. :lol:

Good point, but Porky is a radical Islam sympathizer :hand:

[Muddy]

Honestly.. here is the whole fucking story..


By Jared Keever - Opposing Views
“Museums don’t censor history, they don’t make up history,” Baxter was quoted as saying in a CBS New York story. "They tell history as it happened and the cross is part of the history and the plaque is not."


Now lock the god damn thread.. :lol:

[Hal-9000]

PCS = Satan

[Satan]

No he ain't.

[-(

[PorkChopSandwiches]

But it's a historical object from the site... Put on your thinking cap, man! This isn't just a cross people are trying to display or ram up someones ass.. It was found at the site after the tragedy.. It is a historical object that has meaning to the majority of the American public.. :lol:
The only reason is because of what it symbolizes, they could have pulled any piece of metal from the pile for history

Good point, but Porky is a radical Islam sympathizer :hand:
True dat.

In all honesty, I don't care. I just like getting you guys worked up.

[Hal-9000]

I never get worked up in religion threads....like the man said - I choose what's right for me, the rest of the world can fuck off if they don't like it






*me = the man :)

[Muddy]

I want to write a small piece on Jesus, religion, and the universe one day.. I think you guys would find it interesting.. I really have come to some inner realizations on what I think life is..

[RBP]

I want to write a small piece on Jesus, religion, and the universe one day.. I think you guys would find it interesting.. I really have come to some inner realizations on what I think life is..

Now this I want to read. I think it involves hot chicks with fantastic asses, but I'll wait and see. :lol:

[RBP]

The metal cross was a prominent figure in the days after the attacks. It was constantly in the news footage and stories as people searched to the point of exhaustion.

Of course it should be included as a historical piece.

People attaching more to it are serving their own agenda not the agenda of history and monument.