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View Full Version : Here Come The Feds: FBI Probing HFT



FBD
04-01-2014, 06:15 PM
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-03-31/here-come-feds-fbi-probing-hft?page=1

It is perhaps little wonder that Virtu was in such a hurry to use the cover of the JOBS Act to IPO itself before the whole HFT 'game' was exposed. Just 5 years after we first drew the world's attention to the potential damage that HFT could do (http://zerohedge.blogspot.com/2009/04/incredibly-shrinking-market-liquidity.html); and mere minutes after we posted our article on how HFT is being set up to be the scapegoat for all that is broken with the market and conveniently distracting from the Fed (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-03-31/high-frequency-trading-why-now-and-what-happens-next), and god, or perhaps his agent on earth Goldman Sachs, 'completely unexpectedly' sends in the FBI:

*FBI SAID TO PROBE HIGH-SPEED TRADERS OVER ABUSE OF INFORMATION[/*]
*FBI Working With SEC, CFTC in High-Speed Investigation[/*]
*FBI Investigating Whether High-Speed Firms Trade on Nonpublic Information[/*]

Now, the question is: how many HFTs will stop trading for fear that any further trading on 'non-public information' will be deemed criminal from this point... or keep trading and lobby/hope that "a reasonable man" will believe their liquidity-providing lies.
Bloomberg reports,



Federal agents are investigating whether high-frequency trading firms violate U.S. laws by acting on nonpublic information to gain an edge over competitors, according to a person with knowledge with the probe.

The Federal Bureau of Investigation’s inquiry stems from a multiyear crackdown on insider trading, which has led to at least 79 convictions of hedge-fund traders and others. Agents are examining whether traders abuse information to act ahead of orders by institutional investors, according to the person, who asked not to be named because the probe is confidential. Even trades based on computer algorithms could amount to wire fraud, securities fraud or insider trading.

And since the FBI can't be expected to know much about what it is actually investigating, considering the entire farcical investigation apparently was triggered by a Michael Lewis book and/or an anonymous phone call from Goldman Sachs, it would be nice if traders actually did the FBI's work for them. Pretty please:

An FBI spokesman tells me: "we want people to contact us." Says traders with tips about HFT should call 212-384-1000[img=resource://skype_ff_extension-at-jetpack/skype_ff_extension/data/call_skype_logo.png]212-384-1000 .
— Eamon Javers (@EamonJavers) March 31, 2014 (https://twitter.com/EamonJavers/statuses/450754877577506816)

That's right: if you or your loved ones have been hurt or injured by HFT, please call 212-384-1000[img=resource://skype_ff_extension-at-jetpack/skype_ff_extension/data/call_skype_logo.png]212-384-1000 . How would you know if you have been hurt or injured by HFT? Don't worry, you will - it's like porn.

Basically the Feds just asked anyone who has lost money in the last 5 years to give them a ring.

To quote Hans Gruber, "You ask for miracles, Theo, i give you the FBI."

FBD
04-01-2014, 06:17 PM
So, yall know what this is going to wind up meaning for 401Ks, right? Severely tempted to pull it all, right now. I dont have a ton but its going to suck having to watch that go down to damn near nothing.

PorkChopSandwiches
04-01-2014, 06:17 PM
I read a different story about this, they claim the system is so complicated they wont be able to make heads or tails of it

FBD
04-01-2014, 06:19 PM
any bets on whether that's by design or not? :lol:

the feds let this happen with a wink and nod all these years, Goldman has taken advantage of it like crazy, now all of a sudden they're on about the scourge of HFT? bullshit. something's going down.

PorkChopSandwiches
04-01-2014, 06:27 PM
Of course it was by design. They guy in the article was complaining (he was a broker) When he would by large orders of one stock it would come back half filled at the current price of say $20 then the 2nd half would be bumped to $25

FBD
04-01-2014, 06:31 PM
nanoseconds count ;)

PorkChopSandwiches
04-01-2014, 06:33 PM
Its all that counts, if you want to stay ahead of the game

FBD
04-01-2014, 06:49 PM
cheating or not

PorkChopSandwiches
04-01-2014, 06:58 PM
It sounds like it is in fact cheating, the systems are seeing these orders going in and are able to make a buy just before the original purchase forcing the price up, then they can sell at a profit all in seconds

Acid Trip
04-01-2014, 07:59 PM
Of course it was by design. They guy in the article was complaining (he was a broker) When he would by large orders of one stock it would come back half filled at the current price of say $20 then the 2nd half would be bumped to $25

He should have set a limit and/or done "all or none".

PorkChopSandwiches
04-01-2014, 08:30 PM
I'll have to find the story, he was a bulk buyer. Not an individual investor

PorkChopSandwiches
04-01-2014, 08:32 PM
Here is one along the same lines


We knew someone was stealing from us

And I just thought it was high-frequency thieving.

Michael Lewis's "60 Minutes" interview about high-frequency trading, the subject of his new book "Flash Boys," was illuminating for me as a former hedge-fund trader.

The hero of the story is Brad Katsuyama, formerly of Royal Bank of Canada. He figured out what we were all thinking: Somebody was stealing from us. But who? It almost became accepted that everyone executing orders on Wall Street was inept.


Artiom Muhaciov | E+ | Getty Images
Read MoreMichael Lewis's new book 'Flash Boys': Why the stock market is 'rigged'
I feel like I owe a thousand apologies. I would let sales traders know they probably didn't belong in this business on a daily basis. I would see a market on the screen, make a phone call or send an order electronically and expect it to be executed. More times than not, I would get a report telling me where I bought or sold my shares — always a notch below where I'd hoped. "Everybody sucks," I thought.

The quick and dirty of what's going on here: When an order is sent electronically, HFT is able to intercept the trade and then run ahead of you and buy or sell the shares in front of you, which is called front-running. So, if you send an order to buy 100,000 shares of XYZ, HFT sees the order and then buys everything it can and then sells it back to you at a higher price.

Read MoreFormer Pimco pro 'worried' about high-speed trading
A common phrase on Wall Street was "limits are for losers." Limits are when you give an order but with a specific price set. It doesn't allow the broker any room to use his or her brain. And the simple thinking was: If you want to buy a stock, then buy the stock. Don't mess around with limits. But by 2006, I didn't care anymore. I was going to use limits. It was the only way to trade. It didn't always work. I would send an order down to buy stock at a half. I'd watch the market tick up ahead of me and then wait for a phone call back telling me it traded ahead. But I should feel comfortable knowing my order is in good hands and we'll buy any stock if it comes back to a half. More times than not, the stock eventually did trade back to my level and I bought my shares, but it was risky knowing the market could get away from me. Then I face telling my portfolio manager that we didn't buy any stock because I used a limit.

So then, I started trading against myself. If I wanted to buy 100,000 shares of something, I would send a sell order with a limit of 25,000 shares slightly above where I wanted to buy it. I had some success doing it, but it started to get complicated. And it didn't always work — and was even riskier. Imagine telling your portfolio manager, who wanted to buy 100,000 shares, that not only do you not own any, but you're actually short 25,000 shares. Not good...

I expect to hear a lot more about "Flash Boys" and high-frequency trading over the next few years.

In the "60 Minutes" interview, Lewis says the market is "rigged." I think that's a little aggressive use of the word. It would imply that the whole market is set up to make you lose. That being said, I'm very thankful for now understanding how others are playing with an unfair advantage.

The interesting part about this is that the person getting screwed isn't the typical victim — the little guy. That's what most people think when they hear a word like "rigged" when used to describe the stock market. C'mon, I don't think anyone is front -running the 1000-share orders. No, the people who are getting hurt the most are the ones who don't usually garner a lot of sympathy from the public — hedge funds and mutual funds.

FBD
04-01-2014, 08:44 PM
longer, better ;)

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-03-31/read-michael-lewis-flash-boys-wall-street-revolt-adapatation

intriguing sleuthing done by this guy


watch him argue it
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-04-01/bats-ceo-shame-you-letting-everyone-it

PorkChopSandwiches
04-01-2014, 08:57 PM
Some crazy shit

FBD
04-01-2014, 09:02 PM
yeah that Obrien guy really made himself look like an asswipe. get all defensive and shout over everyone else pal, that's a great way to get people to think you're on the right side of things. "everyone does it, and so do we" is no excuse to rip off your clients, asshole.