View Full Version : Harsher penalties for teacher-student sex in the offing
Teh One Who Knocks
04-02-2014, 11:49 AM
By Tonya Alanez, Sun Sentinel
http://i.imgur.com/sNrP4hZ.jpg
TALLAHASSEE—
Florida teachers who fondle, molest or have sex with students could soon face harsher consequences under bills moving through the Legislature.
State lawmakers are backing legislation that would enhance penalties for authority figures – teachers, coaches, counselors and others — who sexually victimize students.
Under the proposed measure (HB 485), penalties for the crimes would be bumped up a notch. For example, a lewd and lascivious battery, now a second-degree felony carrying a 15-year prison sentence, would be upgraded to a first-degree felony punishable by 30 years in prison.
A molestation charge classified as a third-degree felony with a five-year prison sentence would become a second-degree felony with a 15-year maximum sentence.
Under current state law, there are no specific sanctions when the perpetrator is a teacher and the victim is a student, said House sponsor Rep. Jake Raburn, R-Lithia.
"It's disturbing; we've seen it across the state," Raburn said. "Parents trust teachers, kids trust teachers and to have these individuals preying on our children is unbelievable."
Raburn's bill is ready to go to the House floor for a vote. And on Monday, its counterpart (SB 698), sponsored by Sen. Kelli Stargel, R-Lakeland, at its first hearing received unanimous approval from the Senate Judiciary Committee.
"I think we need to send a strong signal to educators: There are boundaries, and you cannot cross them," Stargel said. "You're at school to learn, this is not something that our students should have to worry about."
The student would have to be younger than 18 and the authority older than 18 for the enhanced penalties to apply. The proposed law also would apply to school volunteers.
Just last June, the Seminole County School Board fired a Lyman High math teacher accused of having sex with two female students, 15 and 17. That same month, a Winter Park High School coach was arrested on charges of lewd and lascivious molestation of a girl younger than 16.
In March 2013, a 57-year-old Jones High School teacher was arrested after Orlando police said he had sex with a 16-year-old female student on campus.
And since 2010 in South Florida more than a dozen Broward and Palm Beach county teachers have either been arrested for allegedly having sex with students, or been sentenced to terms ranging from two years of house arrest to 15 years in prison.
In August, a former teacher at Mavericks Charter High in Pompano Beach was arrested on accusations that she used Facebook to proposition two of her male teenage students to have sex and smoke marijuana with her.
A former Stranahan High band director is awaiting trial after a female student, 17, told police they smoked marijuana together and engaged in oral sex and intercourse at his Hollywood home.
And a former fourth-grade teacher at Rosarian Academy, a private Catholic school in West Palm Beach, was arrested in April 2013 after female students said when they were 9 years old, he rewarded them with candy in exchange for sex acts.
The bill was prompted by a group of students participating in an "It Ought to be a Law" program at Armwood High School in Hillsborough County.
"This was students saying that we need to do something," Stargel said. "And I think that's pretty relevant."
Doubling the maximums doesn't change the fact that female teachers get virtually no penalty.
Mandatory minimums might.
Hal-9000
04-02-2014, 10:33 PM
part of this pisses me off....they can change this law (which is good) but not others that have been outdated for decades?
we gotta really look at our judicial system on the whole and say - You know what? Copying a DVD is not worth 5 years in prison but lighting someone on fire and then videotaping them is worth at least 20...
Muddy
04-02-2014, 11:14 PM
Doubling the maximums doesn't change the fact that female teachers get virtually no penalty.
Mandatory minimums might.
They should get the death penalty...
They should get the death penalty...
I am getting sick of your shit. I propose nothing other than equal treatment under the law. You seem to be opposed to that for some sense of male conquest you want to project on children.
Muddy
04-03-2014, 12:06 AM
The sexes are no where near equal. I'm sorry thats the way it is. When 1/2 the planet doesn't treat women as possessions and 2nd class humans maybe I'll let up.. Until then, you just gonna have to deal with my shit.
The sexes are no where near equal. I'm sorry thats the way it is. When 1/2 the planet doesn't treat women as possessions and 2nd class humans maybe I'll let up.. Until then, you just gonna have to deal with my shit.
Hopefully you'll reflect and realize the ridiculousness of that argument.
DemonGeminiX
04-03-2014, 01:32 AM
We don't have to care about half the planet, only our country. Women's lib happened a long time ago. Technically, under law, they are equal to us men. It might be that some institutions in this country are dragging their feet to recognize that fact, but that issue does not absolve women of liability for the criminal acts they commit. The feminists bang their drums about equality all over the place, and in some cases, their believed superiority to us men. Let them have it. Give them the same penalties for the same crimes. Quit being soft on them just because "they're women". If they want equality, they shouldn't want it any other way.
It's the same argument for minority races, Muddy. They fought for equality, they got it. They have to take the good with the bad. They rubbed the lamp and conjured that Genie out of the bottle, now let them deal with the consequences of being equal under law. Let them be held responsible for their own actions the same way we are and quit giving them a free pass just because they're women, just because they're black, just because they're Hispanic, etc etc etc...
Lady justice is blind to the color of a person's skin, their religion, how much money they make, what's in between peoples' legs. That's the standard, the way it should be.
deebakes
04-03-2014, 01:57 AM
i guess it is little overdue :shrug:
on topic, I think any breaches of teacher-student dynamic are reprehensible and support harsh penalties for over age positions of learning, authority, etc to take advantage of underage.
off topic, I see both yas points - penalize the bitches every bit as much, but dont give us the line that it aint a fkn conquest for the underage boy.
(I mean, unless its one of these new fangled feminized boys they have these days :rolleyes: teach that victim its role...)
on topic, I think any breaches of teacher-student dynamic are reprehensible and support harsh penalties for over age positions of learning, authority, etc to take advantage of underage.
off topic, I see both yas points - penalize the bitches every bit as much, but dont give us the line that it aint a fkn conquest for the underage boy.
(I mean, unless its one of these new fangled feminized boys they have these days :rolleyes: teach that victim its role...)
Jesus that's a fucked up perspective.
You guys have pretended for years that you are just giving me shit. But you actually believe it. It's fucking disturbing.
DemonGeminiX
04-03-2014, 04:34 AM
Jesus that's a fucked up perspective.
You guys have pretended for years that you are just giving me shit. But you actually believe it. It's fucking disturbing.
No. That's actually the common mentality. Right or wrong, this is nothing new. Boys hit puberty and all they think about is having sex, losing their virginity, tagging the hot girls in school. If you get with a woman older than you, then you're a stud above your peers. Call it archaic Neanderthal locker room bravado all you want, but it's very typical for teenage boys to think like this, and yes it makes it a whole lot easier for these crimes to be committed. And a lot of guys never leave it behind, because face it, it was encouraged to think that way as young men. They're conquerors. No one ever told them that it was wrong. It's expected. It's applauded. It's rewarded in their social circles. If they had the chance to tag an older "hot" woman and they passed up the chance, and their inner circle found out, they would be crucified. And parents and authorities aren't a part of this inner circle. They don't know what's going through these teenagers' heads. They don't see, or they willingly ignore, the behavior because face it, boys will be boys. It's the norm. That's the way it is. That's the way it's always been.
Hell, we were conditioned to lust after older women when we were kids. I had posters of Heather Thomas, Heather Locklear, Elle MacPherson, Kathy Ireland, et al all over my wall when I was 12. I didn't have posters of girls my own age up there. Older women were the holy grail of our sexual desires. Sure we couldn't get the ones we had up on our wall, but there were a few lookers in our school, in our neighborhood. I had a history teacher my senior year in high school that I would have fucked the living shit out of given the chance. It wasn't until I got older and saw younger guys lusting after women my age, saw women my age playing with the idea, and thought, "Man, that just ain't right" that I realized the real story. I suspect many others came about it the same way. And I suspect that a lot more people missed that realization as they got older.
So don't be surprised that people feel this way, RBP. It might be wrong, but that's the way it's been for decades. Hell, probably centuries. I keep saying that things are getting out of control with this junk, but the reality is that this has probably been going on for a very long time. Longer than any of us have been alive. Longer than our parents have been alive. Longer than their parents, on and on and on... Wanna know the real difference? New rational thought. We're really just starting to think about this. This is relatively new as a crime in the history of civilization. We're just catching up. More: Instant communication. Cell phones. Computers. The fact that these kids can brag to the whole world now. Nobody's telling these kids that loose lips sink ships. They can't keep it to themselves. They want to claim their place in their perceived hierarchy and they'll use every means available to them to do it. I'm not accusing kids of anything, I'm just stating the truth: When I was that age, we kept secrets. No one does that anymore. It's just like the whole fighting thing. We all got into fights. We all won some, and we all lost some. We walked around like kings when we won, but the adults never knew. We kept it from them. They never suspected. The kids these days, they're throwing shit up on youtube, worldstar, etc etc etc. You couldn't do that back when we were kids, and that's how we never got caught. It's the same thing with this. Now, everything becomes clearer. There's no where to hide anymore.
So no, this isn't new. Nobody here is disturbed. We're all just a product of our time. You might be ahead of the curve, Some of us are catching up, and some of us aren't ready to yet. We're a transitional generation. And there will probably be a few more before everybody's on the same page.
succinctly put, dgx.
I aint necessarily defending the mindset rbp, I'm just saying, humans are what, 700k, a million years old...how long exactly you think this has been going on and how long do you think it'll take for it to be de-programmed?
No. That's actually the common mentality. Right or wrong, this is nothing new. Boys hit puberty and all they think about is having sex, losing their virginity, tagging the hot girls in school. If you get with a woman older than you, then you're a stud above your peers. Call it archaic Neanderthal locker room bravado all you want, but it's very typical for teenage boys to think like this, and yes it makes it a whole lot easier for these crimes to be committed. And a lot of guys never leave it behind, because face it, it was encouraged to think that way as young men. They're conquerors. No one ever told them that it was wrong. It's expected. It's applauded. It's rewarded in their social circles. If they had the chance to tag an older "hot" woman and they passed up the chance, and their inner circle found out, they would be crucified. And parents and authorities aren't a part of this inner circle. They don't know what's going through these teenagers' heads. They don't see, or they willingly ignore, the behavior because face it, boys will be boys. It's the norm. That's the way it is. That's the way it's always been.
Hell, we were conditioned to lust after older women when we were kids. I had posters of Heather Thomas, Heather Locklear, Elle MacPherson, Kathy Ireland, et al all over my wall when I was 12. I didn't have posters of girls my own age up there. Older women were the holy grail of our sexual desires. Sure we couldn't get the ones we had up on our wall, but there were a few lookers in our school, in our neighborhood. I had a history teacher my senior year in high school that I would have fucked the living shit out of given the chance. It wasn't until I got older and saw younger guys lusting after women my age, saw women my age playing with the idea, and thought, "Man, that just ain't right" that I realized the real story. I suspect many others came about it the same way. And I suspect that a lot more people missed that realization as they got older.
So don't be surprised that people feel this way, RBP. It might be wrong, but that's the way it's been for decades. Hell, probably centuries. I keep saying that things are getting out of control with this junk, but the reality is that this has probably been going on for a very long time. Longer than any of us have been alive. Longer than our parents have been alive. Longer than their parents, on and on and on... Wanna know the real difference? New rational thought. We're really just starting to think about this. This is relatively new as a crime in the history of civilization. We're just catching up. More: Instant communication. Cell phones. Computers. The fact that these kids can brag to the whole world now. Nobody's telling these kids that loose lips sink ships. They can't keep it to themselves. They want to claim their place in their perceived hierarchy and they'll use every means available to them to do it. I'm not accusing kids of anything, I'm just stating the truth: When I was that age, we kept secrets. No one does that anymore. It's just like the whole fighting thing. We all got into fights. We all won some, and we all lost some. We walked around like kings when we won, but the adults never knew. We kept it from them. They never suspected. The kids these days, they're throwing shit up on youtube, worldstar, etc etc etc. You couldn't do that back when we were kids, and that's how we never got caught. It's the same thing with this. Now, everything becomes clearer. There's no where to hide anymore.
So no, this isn't new. Nobody here is disturbed. We're all just a product of our time. You might be ahead of the curve, Some of us are catching up, and some of us aren't ready to yet. We're a transitional generation. And there will probably be a few more before everybody's on the same page.
Well said, DGX, and I largely agree. The situations in question are adults manipulating underage children for sex acts. The vast majority of the time, it is not rape with force, it's molestation with coercion. The tattoo guy who got 187 years... didn't sound like he forced himself on the girls. In fact, the story says when they said no he didn't use force. He groomed them, gave them gifts, threw adult parties for children, and in the end, molested at least 10 girls. That's how it's done... grooming them into submission. That pattern applies to all victims, male or female, gay or straight, and it's the reason that positions of authority are taking so seriously.
I find it abhorrent that we would view the exact same situation with a female adult and an underage boy as him having a conquest. And keep in mind the conquest mentality only applies to heterosexual molesters. If a gay 15 year old had sex with a male adult, I have no doubt that the adult would be decried as a sick abuser who needs to go away for a long time. (Before you argue that a 15 year old boy doesn't know he's gay yet, be prepared to explain how a 15 year old knows he's heterosexual.) So while I understand the mentality as it applies to more customary sexual engagements, it does not really apply to the situations we discuss on this board.
Whether we agree or not, the law says that those children cannot consent to an adult. So even if you use the conquest mentality, it's legally invalid. The kids can't choose the sex, because they are legally incapable of making that decision.
Are the boys generally less likely to be traumatized? I am not sure. Some studies have said that but I would want to review the data (and source) before commenting. Many boys are traumatized and more are afraid to report and admit what happened for the very reasons you described, being labeled a pussy for one. That same mentality prevents adult males from reporting rapes and domestic violence. They are still victims and should be supported in the same way a female victim would be. At the same time, we need to stop sending the message that there's no real point in reporting anything if you're a boy. You'll just be called a fag and your molester will not likely get much if any punishment, so you better just suck it up... "like a man."
So are all victims equal? I guess that's one thing that gits me, is that even if it is 100% consensual, yeah yeah yeah, I know, "an underager doesnt have "legal" 'ability' to consent" but I guess where your tack rubs me a little bit the wrong way is that you seem to have this big red "victim" stamp and if your criteria get met then wham, some kid gets told you are a victim you are a victim you are a victim you are a victim you are a victim...and what if the kid's like, fuck that, I was all for it? Sure we can all say yeah, because you're a dumb kid and your lack of rigor on your logic circuit has something to do with that, but why so quick to put every instance of this in the victim box whether or not the "victim" sees himself as a "victim" with all the attendant....oh jesus, they might feel terrible that they wanted to get laid and their teacher was dumb/crazy/holy shit, really? enough to actually do it?
Your perspective here seems to be that every single one of these kids is tormented somehow, insecure, fragile, uncertain, naive and vulnerable like a 20 dollar bill on the sidewalk.
Again I'm not saying its right, I'm just saying there's a million shades of gray and the whole victimhood thing being this automatic label that gets put on it is simply not applicable to every situation.
Just because its illegal doesnt mean there is a victim involved, look at the ten thousand victimless crimes we have across the country. What you seem to be telling us is "dont tell me there isnt a victim - there is a victim, and he's a victim, whether he likes it or not, whether he feels like a victim or not, he's a victim and should be treated like one, counseled, patted on the ass, etc.
Any tactic can be overused, and imo there isnt enough appropriately used "suck it up like a man" and entirely too much "poor you, lets get you some milk and cookies and a warm blankie, now tell me all about those terrible feelings you had..."
...and I say all of this, you know I fully support very harsh penalties for idiot adults fucking with our young like this. but dont fkn coddle them, they are coddled enough already.
Muddy
04-04-2014, 04:13 PM
:2cents: Rainbow is just mad because a male he knows got slammed for diddling someone underage so now he's out for blood over gender inequality when it involves a female. I understand his plight, but I also think he has a huge hurdle to overcome to further is cause.. And that hurdle is this general consensus.
The sexes are no where near equal. I'm sorry thats the way it is. When 1/2 the planet doesn't treat women as possessions and 2nd class humans maybe I'll let up.. Until then, you just gonna have to deal with my shit.
on topic, I think any breaches of teacher-student dynamic are reprehensible and support harsh penalties for over age positions of learning, authority, etc to take advantage of underage.
off topic, I see both yas points - penalize the bitches every bit as much, but dont give us the line that it aint a fkn conquest for the underage boy.
(I mean, unless its one of these new fangled feminized boys they have these days :rolleyes: teach that victim its role...)
No. That's actually the common mentality. Right or wrong, this is nothing new. Boys hit puberty and all they think about is having sex, losing their virginity, tagging the hot girls in school. If you get with a woman older than you, then you're a stud above your peers. Call it archaic Neanderthal locker room bravado all you want, but it's very typical for teenage boys to think like this, and yes it makes it a whole lot easier for these crimes to be committed. And a lot of guys never leave it behind, because face it, it was encouraged to think that way as young men. They're conquerors. No one ever told them that it was wrong. It's expected. It's applauded. It's rewarded in their social circles. If they had the chance to tag an older "hot" woman and they passed up the chance, and their inner circle found out, they would be crucified. And parents and authorities aren't a part of this inner circle. They don't know what's going through these teenagers' heads. They don't see, or they willingly ignore, the behavior because face it, boys will be boys. It's the norm. That's the way it is. That's the way it's always been.
Hell, we were conditioned to lust after older women when we were kids. I had posters of Heather Thomas, Heather Locklear, Elle MacPherson, Kathy Ireland, et al all over my wall when I was 12. I didn't have posters of girls my own age up there. Older women were the holy grail of our sexual desires. Sure we couldn't get the ones we had up on our wall, but there were a few lookers in our school, in our neighborhood. I had a history teacher my senior year in high school that I would have fucked the living shit out of given the chance. It wasn't until I got older and saw younger guys lusting after women my age, saw women my age playing with the idea, and thought, "Man, that just ain't right" that I realized the real story. I suspect many others came about it the same way. And I suspect that a lot more people missed that realization as they got older.
So don't be surprised that people feel this way, RBP. It might be wrong, but that's the way it's been for decades. Hell, probably centuries. I keep saying that things are getting out of control with this junk, but the reality is that this has probably been going on for a very long time. Longer than any of us have been alive. Longer than our parents have been alive. Longer than their parents, on and on and on... Wanna know the real difference? New rational thought. We're really just starting to think about this. This is relatively new as a crime in the history of civilization. We're just catching up. More: Instant communication. Cell phones. Computers. The fact that these kids can brag to the whole world now. Nobody's telling these kids that loose lips sink ships. They can't keep it to themselves. They want to claim their place in their perceived hierarchy and they'll use every means available to them to do it. I'm not accusing kids of anything, I'm just stating the truth: When I was that age, we kept secrets. No one does that anymore. It's just like the whole fighting thing. We all got into fights. We all won some, and we all lost some. We walked around like kings when we won, but the adults never knew. We kept it from them. They never suspected. The kids these days, they're throwing shit up on youtube, worldstar, etc etc etc. You couldn't do that back when we were kids, and that's how we never got caught. It's the same thing with this. Now, everything becomes clearer. There's no where to hide anymore.
So no, this isn't new. Nobody here is disturbed. We're all just a product of our time. You might be ahead of the curve, Some of us are catching up, and some of us aren't ready to yet. We're a transitional generation. And there will probably be a few more before everybody's on the same page.
So are all victims equal? I guess that's one thing that gits me, is that even if it is 100% consensual, yeah yeah yeah, I know, "an underager doesnt have "legal" 'ability' to consent" but I guess where your tack rubs me a little bit the wrong way is that you seem to have this big red "victim" stamp and if your criteria get met then wham, some kid gets told you are a victim you are a victim you are a victim you are a victim you are a victim...and what if the kid's like, fuck that, I was all for it? Sure we can all say yeah, because you're a dumb kid and your lack of rigor on your logic circuit has something to do with that, but why so quick to put every instance of this in the victim box whether or not the "victim" sees himself as a "victim" with all the attendant....oh jesus, they might feel terrible that they wanted to get laid and their teacher was dumb/crazy/holy shit, really? enough to actually do it?
Your perspective here seems to be that every single one of these kids is tormented somehow, insecure, fragile, uncertain, naive and vulnerable like a 20 dollar bill on the sidewalk.
Again I'm not saying its right, I'm just saying there's a million shades of gray and the whole victimhood thing being this automatic label that gets put on it is simply not applicable to every situation.
Just because its illegal doesnt mean there is a victim involved, look at the ten thousand victimless crimes we have across the country. What you seem to be telling us is "dont tell me there isnt a victim - there is a victim, and he's a victim, whether he likes it or not, whether he feels like a victim or not, he's a victim and should be treated like one, counseled, patted on the ass, etc.
Any tactic can be overused, and imo there isnt enough appropriately used "suck it up like a man" and entirely too much "poor you, lets get you some milk and cookies and a warm blankie, now tell me all about those terrible feelings you had..."
...and I say all of this, you know I fully support very harsh penalties for idiot adults fucking with our young like this. but dont fkn coddle them, they are coddled enough already.
its at least good to know background on why someone feels passionate about a particular thing.
so why do I hate the big brother government and cant stand wearing anything around my neck, whether its a tie or jewelry...because some asshole government hung me for speaking out against 'em in a past life? :lol:
Muddy
04-04-2014, 06:03 PM
its at least good to know background on why someone feels passionate about a particular thing.
:
Well I cant prove that.. it's just my theory.. :mrgreen:
Thats why I used the :2cents: I like trying to figure out what makes people tick..
Hal-9000
04-04-2014, 06:36 PM
here's where things get real Muddy.....(:dance:)
I've agreed with RBP since the start about equal sentences for women and men for underage abuse. Yet I had three teachers in various grades that I would have had sex with in a heartbeat. With one of them it got close..I was 16 and in grade 10. If she would have flirted any more or made the overtones real, as in... asking me to fuck her at a place outside of school, I would have jumped on the offer. Crazy part is that I would have told my friends and never mentioned it to an adult..whether the adults were my parents or other teachers.
In my case the flirting had nothing to with my grades, I was earning an 80% average in the class without any help from her...
I guess that's a big part of this conversation. It may be a crime on paper but some males don't perceive it that way. Was I old enough to make the right call? Probably not, but she wasn't in a position of power... in my mind.
Well I cant prove that.. it's just my theory.. :mrgreen:
Thats why I used the :2cents: I like trying to figure out what makes people tick..
lol, thought you were serious :slap:
Hal, why dont you feel victimized! (but I've already made my point so no need to continue that)...
dont let 'em breed testosterone out of the race :lol:
So are all victims equal? I guess that's one thing that gits me, is that even if it is 100% consensual, yeah yeah yeah, I know, "an underager doesnt have "legal" 'ability' to consent" but I guess where your tack rubs me a little bit the wrong way is that you seem to have this big red "victim" stamp and if your criteria get met then wham, some kid gets told you are a victim you are a victim you are a victim you are a victim you are a victim...and what if the kid's like, fuck that, I was all for it? Sure we can all say yeah, because you're a dumb kid and your lack of rigor on your logic circuit has something to do with that, but why so quick to put every instance of this in the victim box whether or not the "victim" sees himself as a "victim" with all the attendant....oh jesus, they might feel terrible that they wanted to get laid and their teacher was dumb/crazy/holy shit, really? enough to actually do it?
Your perspective here seems to be that every single one of these kids is tormented somehow, insecure, fragile, uncertain, naive and vulnerable like a 20 dollar bill on the sidewalk.
Again I'm not saying its right, I'm just saying there's a million shades of gray and the whole victimhood thing being this automatic label that gets put on it is simply not applicable to every situation.
Just because its illegal doesnt mean there is a victim involved, look at the ten thousand victimless crimes we have across the country. What you seem to be telling us is "dont tell me there isnt a victim - there is a victim, and he's a victim, whether he likes it or not, whether he feels like a victim or not, he's a victim and should be treated like one, counseled, patted on the ass, etc.
Any tactic can be overused, and imo there isnt enough appropriately used "suck it up like a man" and entirely too much "poor you, lets get you some milk and cookies and a warm blankie, now tell me all about those terrible feelings you had..."
...and I say all of this, you know I fully support very harsh penalties for idiot adults fucking with our young like this. but dont fkn coddle them, they are coddled enough already.
You have the same logical fault in every post in this thread. You're mentality applies only to heterosexual males. The girls in the story about the tattooed predator all fucked him "consensually". Girls are at particular risk for emotional involvement when being manipulated by an older predator.
Are you honestly telling me that you honestly believe if a 14 year old girl experiences sexual acts with a 30 year old man, and when confronted, she says she was all for it and it was consensual, there should be no prosecution? Really?
:2cents: Rainbow is just mad because a male he knows got slammed for diddling someone underage so now he's out for blood over gender inequality when it involves a female. I understand his plight, but I also think he has a huge hurdle to overcome to further is cause.. And that hurdle is this general consensus.
Since your continued wild, unfounded, factless, personal accusations are against the forum rules, I will let the mods deal with that.
This idea of a general consensus, however, I will engage. Please describe what is generally agreed upon. And answer the same question I posed to FBD: Do you believe that if a 14 year old girl experiences sexual acts with a 30 year old man, and when confronted, she says she was all for it and it was consensual, there should be no prosecution?
:lol: I dont know how you're getting that last sentence out of what I'm saying. No, that is not what I am saying at all bro.
Yes, the mentality pretty much does apply very very disproportionately to hetero males. I dont recall ever disputing that, but I dont recall overly asserting that either. I dont necessarily see that as a logical flaw in the argument through, I mean you basically just summed up what muddy and hal and I have been saying this whole time when you just wrote
Girls are at particular risk for emotional involvement when being manipulated by an older predator.
and what do emotions do, but mostly prevent your brain from working properly...
now none of us is saying its ok for women to do this to underage males,
we're just saying the males arent going to have this same emotional attachment (unless they've been particularly feminized) and are thus far more likely to view it as "Conquest."
make a little more sense bro? our lines of thought are not that far off on this at all, trust me.
lol, thought you were serious :slap:
Hal, why dont you feel victimized! (but I've already made my point so no need to continue that)...
dont let 'em breed testosterone out of the race :lol:
You don't get my position at all. By allowing unequal treatment under the law when it comes to female predators, you are precisely "removing testosterone" as you put it, from the equation. You argue against "feminazis" consistently. But on this, you allow that precise mentality. Claim to be victims and shift the paradigm where it benefits their goal of gender domination, claim discriminatory victim when it and demand reparations when it doesn't go their way, be sure to perpetuate that gender roles have not changed and that men are still in control, driven by horrid sexual aggressions resulting in "rape culture" while females are just pretty flowers that should never be treated harshly. It's been brilliant, kudos to the feminists, but it's not good for society.
Apply Rules for Radicals to this issue or any other issue of female bad behavior. It's shocking how well it fits.
:lol: I dont know how you're getting that last sentence out of what I'm saying. No, that is not what I am saying at all bro.
Yes, the mentality pretty much does apply very very disproportionately to hetero males. I dont recall ever disputing that, but I dont recall overly asserting that either. I dont necessarily see that as a logical flaw in the argument through, I mean you basically just summed up what muddy and hal and I have been saying this whole time when you just wrote
and what do emotions do, but mostly prevent your brain from working properly...
now none of us is saying its ok for women to do this to underage males,
we're just saying the males arent going to have this same emotional attachment (unless they've been particularly feminized) and are thus far more likely to view it as "Conquest."
make a little more sense bro? our lines of thought are not that far off on this at all, trust me.
So because men are less emotional then women, they should be given less consideration under the law. That's what you are saying. My point was that a lot of underage victims do not view their experience as predatory, both male and female. But to excuse the female predators because "boys are less emotional" is ludicrous.
rbp, leave law out of this, I've already made myself very clear on where I stand from a legal perspective here. :)
all we are say-ing,
is
you can make up any number of ideas and such about equality, but women dont have balls and a dick and dont know what its like to be a man, and men dont have a vag and a uterus that makes them batshit crazy for roughly 25% or more of their entire lives.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MYADtflCPWo
"you have to have a dick to understand this" :dance:
We've all made our points. I'm out.
ok. I hope you got out of that differently than your last posts suggest, because you know damn well none of us think that shit is ok....we just have dicks, balls, and remember what it was like to be a teenager and understand, not condone :razz:
ok. I hope you got out of that differently than your last posts suggest, because you know damn well none of us think that shit is ok....we just have dicks, balls, and remember what it was like to be a teenager and understand, not condone :razz:
I chose to disengage because I will never understand that inherent contradiction. "None of us think that shit is okay" but "if it happens it's a conquest" does not jibe. Sorry, you can repeat it until you are exhausted; it will never make sense.
Not all are conquest, for sure. The more pussified a kid is the less likely it is he'll see it as a conquest, imho. The contradiction comes from the evolution of the logic circuit and its processing of risk/reward. Kids that see it as conquest will naturally have a higher risk/reward but they are more apt to be dismissive of the risk. Pussified beta males are going to see risk, risk, risk and unsure of reward, because the reward has been declared improper by common sense and law.
Its not quite so much being ok with it as understanding the myriad things that go into (flawed) decision making. Like I said brotha, I'm pretty sure you can feel confident that notta one of us feels that crap is ok :tup: We're good, I hate to reiterate again that shit aint ok, but it aint ok...regardless of whether I can understand a 16/17 year old's decision tree. ;)
reminds me of my hs english teacher - he understood that yeah, kids will sneak out at night. no, its not ok. but he understood why the kids thought it was ok at the time. and he was every bit as straightforward with "and you get caught, you pay the penalty and get punished, that's how it goes..."
Not all are conquest, for sure. The more pussified a kid is the less likely it is he'll see it as a conquest, imho. The contradiction comes from the evolution of the logic circuit and its processing of risk/reward. Kids that see it as conquest will naturally have a higher risk/reward but they are more apt to be dismissive of the risk. Pussified beta males are going to see risk, risk, risk and unsure of reward, because the reward has been declared improper by common sense and law.
Its not quite so much being ok with it as understanding the myriad things that go into (flawed) decision making. Like I said brotha, I'm pretty sure you can feel confident that notta one of us feels that crap is ok :tup: We're good, I hate to reiterate again that shit aint ok, but it aint ok...regardless of whether I can understand a 16/17 year old's decision tree. ;)
reminds me of my hs english teacher - he understood that yeah, kids will sneak out at night. no, its not ok. but he understood why the kids thought it was ok at the time. and he was every bit as straightforward with "and you get caught, you pay the penalty and get punished, that's how it goes..."
Any boy who is manipulated into an inappropriate sexual relationship by a female adult is a complete pussy. If only he were more manly and take advantage of the situation by viewing it as a great opportunity to bang an older skank. Gee, I can't believe my thinking is so utterly flawed. You've solved it! Abuse by females is an aberration and solely the result of dysfunction pussy boys who should man up and be more alpha. I can't believe I never thought of that clearly obvious answer.
Why are you continuing to make the same ridiculous argument when I already clearly stated I will NEVER understand or accept that position?
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