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View Full Version : 527 potential suspects in French high school rape lead to mass DNA test



Teh One Who Knocks
04-15-2014, 10:50 AM
The Associated Press


PARIS – French investigators began taking DNA samples Monday from 527 male students and staff at a high school -- including boys as young as 14 -- as they searched for the assailant who raped a teenage girl on the closed campus.

Testing began Monday at Fenelon-Notre Dame high school in western France. All those who received summonses last week were warned that any refusal could land them in police custody, and no one rejected the sweeping request to test the high school's male population.

The testing of students, faculty and staff at the school is expected to last through Wednesday, with 40 DNA swabs recovered inside two large study halls. Prosecutor Isabelle Pagenelle said investigators had exhausted all other leads in the Sept. 30 rape of the girl in a dark bathroom at the school.

"The choice is simple for me," she said. "Either I file it away and wait for a match in what could be several years, or I go looking for the match myself."

While there have been other situations in which DNA samples have been taken en masse, the case is complicated for France, where acceptance is widespread for DNA testing and a national database maintains profiles of people detained for even minor crimes. But children's civil liberties are considered sacred, especially within schools.

France has stringent privacy protections -- Google, for example, has come under legal attack for storing user data, as well as for lapses in images from Street View. Questions of criminality are a different matter -- the government's DNA database has expanded radically since it was first created in 1998, and now encompasses 2 million profiles, or about 3 percent of the population.

"It's clearly a situation where people do not have a choice," said Catherine Bourgain, a genetic researcher and author of "DNA, Superstar or Supercop." "One you have a DNA file it's very difficult to get that information erased."

Authorities have promised to discard the DNA collected once a donor is eliminated as a suspect, but Bourgain said she hoped that would also include the profile information, which during the usual course of French investigations is computerized and transmitted to the database.

Police recovered genetic material from the girl's clothing but found no matches among current profiles.

"This happened during the school day in a confined space," Chantal Devaux, the private Roman Catholic school's director, told French media. "The decision to take such a large sample was made because it was the only way to advance the investigation."

Summonses went out last week to 475 teenage students, 31 teachers and 21 others -- either staff or males who were on campus at the time. Pagenelle's office, which required parental permission for minors, promised to discard any DNA results from people who were eliminated as suspects.

"Even if they have the agreement of their parents they could refuse," Jean-Francois Fountain, La Rochelle's mayor, told RTL radio. "I'm trying to put a more positive view of things: If you do this, you clear yourself. There are hundreds of people today who will be cleared."

Devaux acknowledged that all the results could still come back negative, sending investigators back to the drawing board.

From a legal standpoint, the decision is completely logical, said Christopher Mesnooh, an American lawyer who works in Paris.

"Of the 500 or so men there's really only one who should have any concern," Mesnooh said. "What you have to do in this kind of case is you have to balance each person's right to privacy against what happened to this girl."

Such testing has occurred in the past. A small town in rural Australia, Wee Waa, tested the entire male population or about 500 men in 2000 after the rape of a 93-year-old woman. It led to the conviction a farm laborer, Stephen James Boney.

English police trying to solve the rape and murder of two teenage girls in the village of Narborough were the first to use mass DNA collection in 1986, sampling 5,000 men in the earliest days of genetic testing. Police found the killer, Colin Pitchfork, after he asked a friend for a substitute blood sample.

France has also used DNA dragnets, including in 1997 when police trying to solve the rape and murder of a 13-year-old British girl ordered testing for about 3,400 men and boys. In 2004, investigators trying to solve the murder of an 11-year-old boy took 2,300 samples. Neither crime was solved.

Last year, a judge in Brittany ordered DNA tests for all 800 men and boys ages 15 to 75 living in a town plagued with arson fires. The man ultimately charged, a local grocer, had been tested but was arrested only after two more fires and more investigation.

When the DNA database was created, French privacy rights advocates said they were comfortable with it because it had clear limitations, said Jean-Pierre Dubois of the French League of Human Rights. Over time, he said, those limits have blurred.

"We are very surprised that the police officers have not been able to be a bit more precise. When you make an inquiry, you have other evidence and other testimony," Dubois said. "Otherwise, you could say why only the people in the school? Why not all the inhabitants of the town or the region?"

deebakes
04-16-2014, 02:01 AM
this seems out of line, even for the french :shrug:

RBP
04-16-2014, 03:08 AM
I'd give them a DNA sample, but only by the method of my choice. :wank:

redred
04-16-2014, 06:43 AM
this seems out of line, even for the french :shrug:

Why ? They want to catch the rapist , if you didn't do it then giving a sample shouldn't be a problem

DemonGeminiX
04-16-2014, 07:05 AM
It's just not how things are done here in the USA. You can't compel someone to provide evidence against themselves.

redred
04-16-2014, 08:35 AM
but the story isn't in the US so no 200 year Amendment to hind behind , times have moved on a lot and mass dna testing should be able to catch the person who did it

DemonGeminiX
04-16-2014, 09:49 AM
:-s

You think we hide behind our Constitution?

redred
04-16-2014, 10:12 AM
if this was a story from the US then yes the rapist could hind behind the constitution or use it their advantage by not giving a dna sample when asked

Pony
04-16-2014, 10:20 AM
Why ? They want to catch the rapist , if you didn't do it then giving a sample shouldn't be a problem

Until they catalog your DNA info to be used against you in the future. It's no different than tagging every child at birth.

They should only be able to take DNA with a court order and some sort of evidence to prove you're a "real" suspect. I didn't do it but you can be damn sure I would have refused to give a sample without a court battle.

redred
04-16-2014, 10:26 AM
Guess I'm more the kind of person by giving a sample to prove that it wasn't me quickly and help the police catch the real rapist

Pony
04-16-2014, 10:32 AM
So everyone's guilty until proven innocent.

How about next time someone steals a pair of jeans at the mall they lock the doors and round up thousands of people for interrogations and DNA testing? Is that OK? How about being detained at checkpoints on your way to work every morning because someone was littering?

I don't have any issue with them trying to catch a rapist, My concern is with the 526 people that didn't do it.

DemonGeminiX
04-16-2014, 11:04 AM
if this was a story from the US then yes the rapist could hind behind the constitution or use it their advantage by not giving a dna sample when asked

No, what would happen is that law enforcement would have to actually do their job, locate a legitimate suspect, and prove beyond the shadow of a reasonable doubt that a legitimately accused person is guilty of a crime instead of assuming that 500 potentially guilty people's civil rights should be infringed upon and they should incriminate themselves for the crime in question or any other crime in the future they may or may not be suspected of.

That's not hiding behind anything, that's respecting people's freedoms and civil rights.

Pony
04-16-2014, 11:24 AM
Imagine if they rounded up every black male in a city or every Jewish person because one committed a crime....
... how is that different from accusing every male in the building?

The other thing I have an issue with is this is a high school, assuming most of the student are minors did they get the parents permission to take DNA?

DemonGeminiX
04-16-2014, 11:32 AM
Of course.

Here's an idea: Have they ever heard of getting a physical description of the attacker from the victim? It might narrow their search parameters down a bit. 500+ people under consideration... they can't all look alike.

Pony
04-16-2014, 11:34 AM
That and I would assume they could eliminate 98% by asking the students and teachers who was unaccounted for during that time.

Teh One Who Knocks
04-16-2014, 11:38 AM
...they can't all look alike.

Unless it was a black person, they all look alike to me :hand:




















































8-[

:theyareontome:

DemonGeminiX
04-16-2014, 11:40 AM
:racist:

redred
04-16-2014, 12:01 PM
I guess the poor girl was really lucky she was raped in france then where they have the power to carry out mass dna testing if they wish

DemonGeminiX
04-16-2014, 12:28 PM
Right, because it's perfectly ok to treat 527 people like subhuman animals when at least 526 of them are innocent of the crime.... especially since it wouldn't be that hard to reduce the list of suspects substantially using normal investigative methods that don't infringe on people's civil rights.

:rolleyes:

deebakes
04-16-2014, 12:52 PM
i see both sides of the argument, i think red just is on one side and we may be on the other :shrug:

what concerns me is the ability to catalog your DNA so that it could be used against you (or used for every investigation) in the future. i guess i am on board with red that in the short term, the sample demonstrates willingness to help apprehend the suspect but the long term ramifications are something i would be uncomfortable with.

:2cents:

redred
04-16-2014, 01:08 PM
maybe french people can trust their police force better than you guys can trust yours when they say the DNA will be destroyed after :shrug:

either way lets hope they do catch the person who did the crime as i think we all can agree we'd like this to happen

FBD
04-16-2014, 01:10 PM
I'm sure I dont have to weigh in here :lol: I basically stopped reading when I saw "Roman Catholic School." Like those shepherds really care for their sheep. Sure they "tend the flock" but that's about as good as you can call it, now c'mon sheep, line up for shearing.

FBD
04-16-2014, 01:11 PM
maybe french people can trust their police force better than you guys can trust yours when they say the DNA will be destroyed after :shrug:

either way lets hope they do caught the person who did the crime as i think we all can agree we'd like this to happen

bet your ass we dont trust our law enforcement with very much, especially where they will catalog our DNA once harvested, legally or not.

DemonGeminiX
04-16-2014, 01:12 PM
maybe french people can trust their police force better than you guys can trust yours when they say the DNA will be destroyed after :shrug:

either way lets hope they do caught the person who did the crime as i think we all can agree we'd like this to happen

Actually Red, our Constitution and our whole legal system, hell even our very nation, exists the way it is because we couldn't trust your government.

FBD
04-16-2014, 01:28 PM
:lol: