Florida man charged in alleged plot to videotape girl's rape, kill her family

[Teh One Who Knocks]

FOX News


http://i.imgur.com/52N7LUr.jpg

A Florida man was charged Friday in an alleged plot to lure a 9-year-old girl to a vacant home, kill the girl's family members and then videotape himself raping the child.

State law enforcement officials said Friday that 29-year-old Shawn Thomas was charged with attempted premeditated homicide, attempting to commit capital sexual battery and possession of child pornography.

Florida Department of Law Enforcement officials say Thomas tried to lure the 9-year-old girl, her father and grandfather to a vacant Longwood home under the pretense that he was a student filmmaker making an independent film.

FDLE officials say the grandfather last Saturday entered the house, leaving his granddaughter and son-in-law in the car, but became suspicious and left before anything could happen. The Orlando Sentinel reported that the grandfather noticed there was no furniture in the house and plastic sheeting on the floor.

Thomas was booked into jail without bond. Online records show no attorney for him.

[Goofy]

Hang him and be done with it :)

[FBD]

wtf!

[Hal-9000]

and so....is this a thought crime? Are his rights being violated? Or should we string him up for the heinous things he had planned....

[RBP]

and so....is this a thought crime? Are his rights being violated? Or should we string him up for the heinous things he had planned....
He acted on it. No longer a thought crime. If he thought and/or expressed it but took no actions to fulfill the fantasy, that would be a thought crime.

[Hal-9000]

He acted on it. No longer a thought crime. If he thought and/or expressed it but took no actions to fulfill the fantasy, that would be a thought crime.

How is this different from a pedophile agreeing to meet a 13 year old girl and showing up at the address or hotel? The pedo through communicating, and physically arriving at the agreed upon meeting place is taking action...with the intention of having sex/breaking the law with the minor.

[Hal-9000]

side thought - big thanks to the grandpa who entered the house, noticed no furniture and the plastic sheeting and knew that something was up :thumbsup:

story could have turned out a whole lot worse

[FBD]

He acted on it. No longer a thought crime. If he thought and/or expressed it but took no actions to fulfill the fantasy, that would be a thought crime.

right!?

lucky for them this kid was totally fkn stupid, otherwise he would have not been so blatantly obvious about it.

[RBP]

How is this different from a pedophile agreeing to meet a 13 year old girl and showing up at the address or hotel? The pedo through communicating, and physically arriving at the agreed upon meeting place is taking action...with the intention of having sex/breaking the law with the minor.
Because it's not generally illegal to sexually solicit and meet an adult police officer. The uniqueness of that scenario is that there is no crime if there is no child.

[Hal-9000]

Because it's not generally illegal to sexually solicit and meet an adult police officer. The uniqueness of that scenario is that there is no crime if there is no child.

So even if the person's actions are intent, it's the truth masking the intent that makes it wrong/entrapment in the case you mention above.

In my opinion, the person has intent to commit a crime therefore he's guilty regardless of how the intent was initiated.

[Hal-9000]

I've read your views RBP, trying to understand....lightning round time :lol:

Scenario - Guy wants to kill his wife and the police hear about it. They dress up an officer as the hitman and he infiltrates the husband's life, offers a kill for hire. The husband supplies the dates, times and addresses of where the wife will be. They agree on a monetary amount, the guy pays the undercover cop. Then they arrest the husband for attempted murder.

Kosher?

Oooh, that makes me think of another...

Police get wind of a hitman for hire. They use two undercover officers who pose as man and wife. Cop-husband contacts the hitman and they agree upon a monetary amount to kill the wife. He supplies the address and the time, where the other undercover cop is posing as the wife waiting in a home. The hitman sets up across the street with a rifle and the cops break in and arrest him for attempted murder. Kosher?

[RBP]

I've read your views RBP, trying to understand....lightning round time :lol:

Scenario - Guy wants to kill his wife and the police hear about it. They dress up an officer as the hitman and he infiltrates the husband's life, offers a kill for hire. The husband supplies the dates, times and addresses of where the wife will be. They agree on a monetary amount, the guy pays the undercover cop. Then they arrest the husband for attempted murder.

Kosher?

Oooh, that makes me think of another...

Police get wind of a hitman for hire. They use two undercover officers who pose as man and wife. Cop-husband contacts the hitman and they agree upon a monetary amount to kill the wife. He supplies the address and the time, where the other undercover cop is posing as the wife waiting in a home. The hitman sets up across the street with a rifle and the cops break in and arrest him for attempted murder. Kosher?
Those both sound like solicitation for murder. The difference is that it's illegal to pay ANYONE to kill someone, so cop or not, it's still a crime.

The only scenario I have come up with similar to your question about child solicitation is perhaps buying or selling fake drugs. If I attempt to buy a bag of powdered sugar that I think is cocaine, did I break the law?

Mind you, the police and lawmakers KNOW that fake child solicitation is not illegal. What they did was write special laws making it illegal by specifically adding "or reasonably believes to be a child" to the definition. Now keep in mind, it does NOT work in reverse. If a 16 year old girl is in a club, says she's 21, even shows ID, giving you every reason to "believe" she's of age, you are still a statutory rapist if you have consensual sex with her. No defense.

[RBP]

I might take back the drug example because there's a third party involved. If someone was falsely promising to deliver a fake child that's still a solicitation of a crime. So I guess I don't have another example.

[Hal-9000]

thanks...so fake child is different than fake death or fake killing? (murder)


I'd love to be a lawyer and read about precedents/argue some of these examples, the subject matter is fascinating to me :oops:

[RBP]

I am not sure how you are defining "fake killing" to draw a comparison. Let's say the police never knew and the actions were allowed to play out to conclusion. In the case of luring in the grandfather and granddaughter to kill them, it would result in rape and murder. In the case of a police officer convincing an adult to drive to a park to meet a non-existent child, there is no illegal act that would be committed. He couldn't molest a child because there is no child to molest. He could have sex with the cop, I suppose, but that's consensual sex between adults.

As an example, this is the Illinois "Grooming" statute. Note that they wrote in "believed to be".

(720 ILCS 5/11-25)

Sec. 11-25. Grooming.

(a) A person commits the offense of grooming when he or she knowingly uses a computer on-line service, Internet service, local bulletin board service, or any other device capable of electronic data storage or transmission to seduce, solicit, lure, or entice, or attempt to seduce, solicit, lure, or entice, a child, a child's guardian, or another person believed by the person to be a child or a child's guardian, to commit any sex offense as defined in Section 2 of the Sex Offender Registration Act or to otherwise engage in any unlawful sexual conduct with a child or with another person believed by the person to be a child.

[Hal-9000]

I am not sure how you are defining "fake killing" to draw a comparison. Let's say the police never knew and the actions were allowed to play out to conclusion. In the case of luring in the grandfather and granddaughter to kill them, it would result in rape and murder. In the case of a police officer convincing an adult to drive to a park to meet a non-existent child, there is no illegal act that would be committed. He couldn't molest a child because there is no child to molest. He could have sex with the cop, I suppose, but that's consensual sex between adults.

As an example, this is the Illinois "Grooming" statute. Note that they wrote in "believed to be".

(720 ILCS 5/11-25)

Sec. 11-25. Grooming.

(a) A person commits the offense of grooming when he or she knowingly uses a computer on-line service, Internet service, local bulletin board service, or any other device capable of electronic data storage or transmission to seduce, solicit, lure, or entice, or attempt to seduce, solicit, lure, or entice, a child, a child's guardian, or another person believed by the person to be a child or a child's guardian, to commit any sex offense as defined in Section 2 of the Sex Offender Registration Act or to otherwise engage in any unlawful sexual conduct with a child or with another person believed by the person to be a child.

The fake killing I was referring to was in my hypothetical examples. The intent to kill someone. For example hiring a hitman that's actually a cop. Nothing has actually happened, the criminal in question didn't hire a 'real' hitman, yet he's charged with attempted murder.

:thumbsup:

[RBP]

The fake killing I was referring to was in my hypothetical examples. The intent to kill someone. For example hiring a hitman that's actually a cop. Nothing has actually happened, the criminal in question didn't hire a 'real' hitman, yet he's charged with attempted murder.

:thumbsup:
you're missing the critical piece. soliciting someone - ANYONE - to commit murder is against the law. Child solicitation pertains only to the solicitation of A CHILD. the same act with an adult is just trying to get laid.

[Hal-9000]

you're missing the critical piece. soliciting someone - ANYONE - to commit murder is against the law. Child solicitation pertains only to the solicitation of A CHILD. the same act with an adult is just trying to get laid.

Even when the 'murderer' is an undercover cop...interesting.


It's still in the same ballpark in my opinion. You're pretending to be someone that you're not in each case, (murder/kiddy diddling) and your end goal is to catch someone who intends to do something. Thought crimes of a different nature.