Scotland referendum: Scots reject independence in historic vote

[Teh One Who Knocks]

FOX News and The Associated Press


http://i.imgur.com/WzX55AX.jpg

Scotland voters decided to remain part of the United Kingdom on Friday, rejecting independence in a historic referendum.

The decision prevented a rupture of a 307-year union with England, bringing a huge sigh of relief to the British political establishment. Scots voted 55 percent to 45 percent against independence in a vote that saw an unprecedented turnout.

“Like millions of other people, I am delighted,” Prime Minister David Cameron said in a speech outside 10 Downing Street on Friday morning. “It would have broken my heart to see our United Kingdom come to an end.”

Cameron promised new powers for Scotland in the wake of the vote, but also warned that millions of voices in England must also be heard, calling for a “balanced settlement” that would deliver more power to England, Wales and Northern Ireland.

Queen Elizabeth II was expected to give a statement Friday afternoon, Sky News reported.

“The people of Scotland have spoken,” Alistair Darling, leader of the “Better Together” campaign said early Friday after the result was confirmed. “We have chosen unity over division.”

Despite major victories for the “Yes” campaign in Dundee and Glasgow, a majority of voters did not embrace Scottish First Minister Alex Salmond's impassioned plea to launch a new state, choosing instead the security offered by remaining in the United Kingdom.

Salmond conceded defeat, saying "we know it is a majority for the No campaign" and called on Scots to accept the results of the vote.

He said the vote "has been a triumph for the democratic process."

Salmond had argued that Scots could go it alone because of its extensive oil reserves and high levels of ingenuity and education. He said Scotland would flourish on its own, free of interference from any London-based government.

Nonetheless, the skilled 59-year-old leader of the Scottish National Party came close to winning independence -- his long-cherished goal -- and still won a promise of new powers for Scotland from rattled London politicians.

Many saw it as a "heads versus hearts" campaign, with cautious older Scots concluding that independence would be too risky financially, while younger ones were enamored with the idea of building their own country.

The result saves Cameron from a historic defeat and also helps opposition chief Ed Miliband by keeping his many Labour Party lawmakers in Scotland in place. His party would have found it harder to win a national election in 2015 without that support from Scotland.

For his part, Cameron -- aware that his Conservative Party is widely loathed in Scotland – had previously begged voters not to use a vote for independence as a way to bash his party.

The vote against independence keeps the U.K. from losing a substantial part of its territory and oil reserves and prevents it from having to find a new base for its nuclear arsenal, now housed in Scotland. It had also faced a possible loss of influence within international institutions including the 28-nation European Union and the United Nations.

The decision also means Britain can avoid a prolonged period of financial insecurity that had been predicted by some if Scotland broke away.

In return for staying in the union, Scotland's voters have been promised significant -- though somewhat unspecified -- new powers by the British government, which had feared losing Scotland forever.

Labour MP Jim Murphy, who played a key in the Better Together campaign, told Sky News that it was now time to make a success of Scotland’s decision.

"While I'm delighted, there is no time or space for triumph and we have got to get on and offer that devolution package we offered and unite the country around that,” Murphy said.

[RBP]

My comments from the other other thread:

I am just impressed with the process philosophically. The union had a peaceful demonstration of the exercise of self determination by a member state.

Given recent events in other nations, that is an accomplishment of which to be quite proud.

Now let's see what happens in Spain, whose government is taking the opposite position.

[Muddy]

My comments from the other other thread:

I am just impressed with the process philosophically. The union had a peaceful demonstration of the exercise of self determination by a member state.

Given recent events in other nations, that is an accomplishment of which to be quite proud.

Now let's see what happens in Spain, whose government is taking the opposite position.

It ain't over yet.. Lets watch and see..

[Teh One Who Knocks]

By Katherine Haddon, Ouerdya Ait Abdelmalik - AFP


http://i.imgur.com/7eLqLxY.jpg

Edinburgh (AFP) - Supporters of Scottish independence reacted with bitter disappointment on Friday as their hopes of breaking away from Britain were dashed, with some breaking down in tears in the streets of Edinburgh.

Many had stayed up all night in the hope of a new dawn for their nation but instead had to accept defeat on a grey, rainy morning in Scotland's capital.

"My feeling was just crushing, quite devastating," said 16-year-old Charlotte Darroch, who was at Edinburgh's main counting centre wearing her school uniform, her tie pinned with "Yes" badges and a Scottish flag wrapped around her shoulders.

"We all felt it was going to go the other way. I genuinely thought the feeling on the ground was different. I don't think people realised quite how important this was," she added.

One of thousands of under 18s given the vote for the first time ever in Britain, Darroch pledged not to give up hope after 1.6 million people, more than a third of the electorate, voted for independence.

"This isn't the end of the 'Yes' campaign," she said.

Outside the Scottish Parliament, "Yes" voters Paddy Burns and Rikki Maclean were walking home after spending all night at a friend's house watching the results.

"They (the 'No' voters) have said we're not up to the task of governing ourselves and that kills me," said Burns, a 23-year-old barman.

"All we have to do is pick ourselves up, dust ourselves off and keep making our voices heard until we get self-determination."

Maclean added it was now vital for Prime Minister David Cameron to deliver on his promise to devolve more power back to the Scottish people.

"I think it's going to be really difficult and there's going to be a lot of people clanging their heads together", the 32-year-old theatre manager said.

"If these powers aren't given, that will spark an even bigger upswelling of people."

Near Edinburgh Castle, some tartan-wearing activists surrounded by "Yes" slogans cried in the rain at the end of an all-night party as the result became clear.

Iain, a 21-year-old student, said: "I am incredibly disappointed."

Independence had been "so close," he said, adding: "For the last six months, we had hopes for a better life."

- 'Divisive' referendum -

http://i.imgur.com/Ojq8Br8.jpg

The "No" camp's victory by a surprisingly large margin was devastating for many "Yes" supporters but those in favour of staying in Britain welcomed the result with relief.

At a party organised by the Better Together campaign in Glasgow, activists cheered, hugged, danced and cried as it became clear they had won.

The response among many ordinary people who voted "No" was more muted, though.

David Drysdale, 55, said he was "happy" with the result but "somewhat upset that we're going to have pushing two million people not getting what they wanted."

Speaking on Edinburgh's Royal Mile, he voiced concern that the result could sow divisions in Scottish society.

"Hopefully not riots in the streets, so far so good on that. If Westminster comes through on some of its promises, hopefully it will be OK," he added.

Back at the count centre, "No" supporter Louise Fleming, 21, said she was "relieved" and planned to head off for a fried breakfast before going to bed.

"I've been up for over 24 hours," she said. "It's been such a divisive referendum... we can't expect everything to be great tomorrow but the right outcome has occurred."

[FBD]

just like I said, "the correct outcome"

[DemonGeminiX]

What new powers were the Scots specifically promised? Did they not think to flesh out the details?

[dmni]

They said a lot of words without being specific with their promises, Devo Max (Devolution Maximum) is the favoured term. Which in theory gives greater autonomy to Scotland to control raising and spending money. The no vote will have consequences no doubt the Barnett Formula http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barnett_formula will get looked at.

4 out of 9 people in Scotland wanted independence of the remaining 5, I would suggest at least 1 wants greater autonomy for Scotland but within the United Kingdom.

[FBD]

Voters aged 16-17: YES: 71%; NO: 29%
Voters aged 65+: YES: 27%; NO: 73%


http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user5/imageroot/2014/09/lord%20ashcroft%20poll.jpg



ok, so anyone with half a pension was frightened by RBS... :rolleyes:

and the youngens know they're already proper fucked so let's take the reins of this shitwagon...

[PorkChopSandwiches]

:fail:

[Teh One Who Knocks]

What new powers were the Scots specifically promised? Did they not think to flesh out the details?

Hey, found an article that covers a lot of it, I'll post it in this thread in a sec

[Teh One Who Knocks]

By Alistair Smout and Guy Faulconbridge


http://i.imgur.com/VvoKUHE.jpg

EDINBURGH (Reuters) - Scotland spurned independence in a historic referendum that threatened to rip the United Kingdom apart, sow financial turmoil and diminish Britain’s remaining global clout.

A vote for the 307-year union is a relief for millions of Britons including Prime Minister David Cameron, whose job was on the line, as well as allies across the world who were horrified at the prospect of the United Kingdom's separation.

Unionists cheered, kissed and drank wine and beer in Glasgow, Scotland's biggest city where secessionists won, while nationalist leader Alex Salmond conceded defeat and hours later told reporters he would resign.

Opponents of independence won 55 percent of the vote while separatists won 45 percent with all 3.6 million votes - a record 85 percent turnout - counted. But leaders from across the United Kingdom said the union must change if it is to endure.

"For me as leader my time is nearly over but for Scotland the campaign continues and the dream will never die," Salmond told reporters in Edinburgh, the Scottish capital which supported the United Kingdom.

http://i.imgur.com/Ubl3FAy.jpg

Salmond said he would not accept the nomination as leader of the Scottish National Party at an annual conference in November and that he would then resign as Scottish First Minister.

The vote prevents 59-year-old Salmond from winning his dream of an independent Scotland, a goal for which he has worked with a mix of shrewd calculation and nationalist passion for his entire adult life.

Cameron said the question of Scottish independence had been settled for a generation.

"There can be no disputes, no re-runs, we have heard the settled will of the Scottish people," he said outside his official London residence in Downing Street.

The Queen, who is at her Scottish castle in Balmoral, is expected to make a rare comment on Friday.

http://i.imgur.com/HpxZEEc.jpg

The campaign for independence had electrified this country of 5.3 million but also divided the passions of friends and families from the remote Scottish islands of the Atlantic to the tough city estates of Glasgow.

Sterling strengthened sharply against the dollar and the euro on the result. British bonds and shares rose while major British companies with Scottish exposure welcomed the decision.

Royal Bank of Scotland said it had scrapped plans to move its registered office to England.

Earlier, speaking in front of an image of a giant white on blue Scottish flag, Salmond laced his admission of defeat with a warning to British politicians in London that they must respect their last minute promise of more powers for Scotland.

"Scotland has by a majority decided not, at this stage, to become an independent country. I accept that verdict of the people and I call on all of Scotland to follow suit in accepting the democratic verdict of the people of Scotland," he said.

"Scotland will expect these to be honoured in rapid course," said Scotland's first minister before walking off the stage, his head bowed.

FEDERAL KINGDOM?

Opinion polls showing a surge in Scottish separatist support in the two weeks leading up to the Sept. 18 vote prompted a rushed British pledge to grant more powers to Scotland, a step that has angered some English MPs in Westminster.

In an effort to deflate that anger, Cameron vowed to forge a new constitutional settlement that would grant Scotland the promised powers but also give greater control to England, Wales and Northern Ireland.

"Just as Scotland will vote separately in the Scottish parliament on their issues of tax, spending and welfare, so too England, as well as Wales and Northern Ireland should be able to vote on these issues," Cameron said.

"All this must take place, in tandem with and at the same pace as the settlement for Scotland."

Cast as a constitutional revolution, commentators said Cameron's pledge of more powers to the constituent parts of the United Kingdom was aimed at sedating 'the slumbering beast of English nationalism'.

Cameron's Conservatives have seen members seep towards the United Kingdom Independence Party, an anti-European Union party, ahead of a referendum on EU membership that Cameron has promised by the end of 2017 if he wins the 2015 election.

"I'm not convinced by what I've heard this morning from Mr Cameron this morning that he seriously wants to address that," UKIP leader Nigel Farage said.

Any British vote to leave the EU would be likely to prompt calls from Scottish nationalists for another independence vote.

UK PLC

Seeking to tap into a cocktail of historical rivalry, opposing political tastes and a perception that London has mismanaged Scotland, nationalists said Scots, not London, should rule Scotland to build a wealthier and fairer country.

Though the nationalists won Glasgow, they failed to live up to opinion polls before the vote which forecast that the United Kingdom's fate was balanced on a knife edge.

"We have chosen unity over division, and positive change rather than needless separation,” Alistair Darling, head of the "Better Together" campaign.

Unionists had warned independence would diminish the United Kingdom's standing in the world and sow financial, economic and political uncertainty during months of negotiations over a messy divorce.

http://i.imgur.com/bDui2fC.jpg

U.S. President Barack Obama and European Union leaders had made clear they wanted the United Kingdom to stay together.

In Brussels, the European Commission said the Scottish vote was good for a "united, open and stronger Europe" while NATO Secretary General Anders Fogh Rasmussen welcomed the news that the United Kingdom would stay together.

Belgian EU Trade Commissioner Karel De Gucht, whose native Flanders region is in thrall to a growing nationalist movement, said a Scottish split would have been "cataclysmic" for Europe, triggering a domino effect across the continent.

While Scottish leaders promised to work together, Scots remained divided in joy and disappointment over the fate of their country.

"Absolutely amazing," said unionist campaigner Stephen Stanners. "They shouted the loudest, so it made it seem like a majority. But we’re obviously the silent dignified majority. And we pushed it through. And it just shows that Scotland loves the UK and the UK loves Scotland."

But Calum Martin, a 21 year-old history student at Edinburgh University who voted for independence said the question of secession would return.

"It’s a disappointing result but it sets the stage for going forward," Martin said. "As long as there are flaws, there will be calls for independence. You can’t put the genie back in the bottle once it’s out."

[FBD]

As usual I find myself agreeing with Nigel

[DemonGeminiX]

Thanks, Lance.

[Hal-9000]

The French have been trying to separate from us for over 40 years. Our referendums are not so 'nice' between the two parties.....Quebec and the rest of Canada :meh:

[Teh One Who Knocks]

"Just as Scotland will vote separately in the Scottish parliament on their issues of tax, spending and welfare, so too England, as well as Wales and Northern Ireland should be able to vote on these issues," Cameron said.

This quote baffles me a bit. Is he saying that sure, we'll give you the chance to vote on these thing, but Wales, England, and N.I. gets to vote on them as well, so no matter what you guys vote, we still may be able to overrule you because we have more votes? :confused:

[Hal-9000]

and from the quote....Northern Ireland

the rest of Ireland has no say because they're not geographically close to Scotland? :lol:

[PorkChopSandwiches]

https://scontent-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpa1/v/t1.0-9/10678667_848392628512944_1813177641562326601_n.jpg ?oh=2c6c85e7959858e03aeee69778872209&oe=54C43E56

[Teh One Who Knocks]

and from the quote....Northern Ireland

the rest of Ireland has no say because they're not geographically close to Scotland? :lol:

Because Ireland isn't part of the UK, only Northern Ireland is :nono:

[Hal-9000]

Because Ireland isn't part of the UK, only Northern Ireland is :nono:

this is part of my point....The United Kingdom (except part of the island to the west because they can't get along with the Belfast people :lol:)

[DemonGeminiX]

This quote baffles me a bit. Is he saying that sure, we'll give you the chance to vote on these thing, but Wales, England, and N.I. gets to vote on them as well, so no matter what you guys vote, we still may be able to overrule you because we have more votes? :confused:

Yeah, I was wondering about that too. Seems like if that's the case, then they're not really getting jack shit at all.

[Hal-9000]

http://i57.tinypic.com/2ex3eog.jpg

[Goofy]

This quote baffles me a bit. Is he saying that sure, we'll give you the chance to vote on these thing, but Wales, England, and N.I. gets to vote on them as well, so no matter what you guys vote, we still may be able to overrule you because we have more votes? :confused:


Yeah, I was wondering about that too. Seems like if that's the case, then they're not really getting jack shit at all.

What it means is this:

The Scottish Parliament at Holyrood will make decisions on Scottish issues
The Welsh Assembly will make decisions on Welsh issues (breeding more sheep etc)
The Westminster Parliament will make decisions on English issues
Paddy and Mick, while seated in a pub in Londonderry will make decisions on Guinness

(all 4 will be done without outside interference from either of the other 3). More or less the Devo Max option......... which is pretty much what most of us wanted anyway :lol: Eejits could have avoided all this hassle if they'd allowed it two years ago.


Basically what they're "saying" is that each separate country in the UK will get more power to make more decisions on their own matters.

Of course this was all drawn out on the back of a fag packet last week when Cameroon/Clegg/Milipede and co realised they're beloved oil reserves were seriously under threat :lol:



I'm just glad it's over tbh, sick of hearing loads of bullshit from supporters of both sides! We're staying together for now so let's work together and make the UK better! "Better together", well Mr Cameron, Mr Darling, i hope you guys can backup that statement :)

[redred]

http://i.imgur.com/226kTuO.jpg

[PorkChopSandwiches]

That guy is great

[Goofy]

That guy is great

I know, he won Wimbledon last year btw :tup: The other chump is a knobhead singer from Manchester that even his brother hates :loser:

[Goofy]

http://i.imgur.com/226kTuO.jpg

BTW, it's tubes like that with opinions like that help our cause :thumbsup: Of course wanker Liam wasn't the worst tweet to Andy, there was one in the paper today from some fuckin in-bred glebe saying "I wish you'd died in the Dunblane massacre you cunt" or words to that effect :|

[deebakes]

:rip: william wallace

[Hugh_Janus]

its over... thank fuck for that.... we can have something different on the news at last :lol:


BTW, it's tubes like that with opinions like that help our cause :thumbsup: Of course wanker Liam wasn't the worst tweet to Andy, there was one in the paper today from some fuckin in-bred glebe saying "I wish you'd died in the Dunblane massacre you cunt" or words to that effect :|

if people let things like that sway their decision then they're an idiot. What a bunch of nobodys with no power and no clue say while hiding behind a keyboard should have no bearing on how you vote.

Having said that, what liam gallagher said was quite funnny

[Goofy]

if people let things like that sway their decision then they're an idiot. What a bunch of nobodys with no power and no clue say while hiding behind a keyboard should have no bearing on how you vote.


Maybe so, but emotions were running high up here in the run-up to the vote, i guarantee a lot of folk would be swayed by reading bollocks like that from an Englishman :) Just like a lot of folk were obviously swayed by the 3 stooges promises of more powers.......

[FBD]

Fear and loathing in Scotland :lol:

http://libertyblitzkrieg.com/2014/09/19/fear-and-loathing-in-scotland-why-the-nos-won-and-lessons-learned-from-the-vote/

http://libertyblitzkrieg.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/Screen-Shot-2014-09-19-at-10.09.11-AM.jpg

The NO vote was entirely secured by overwhelming support from those aged above 55. In fact, the “better together” camp failed to win any of the age groups below 55 years of age. For the 65+ crowd it was simply a blowout. 73% of them voted NO. So in a nutshell, old people filled with fear blocked independence. Similarly, fearful old people bailed out the banks in the U.S. several years ago, putting a nail in the coffin of the middle class and the youth generally. See what I am getting at here?

What we now know for certain is that old people in positions of wealth and power, and the ability to frighten others of their generation, is proving to be the most significant obstacle to global change. For those of us who wish to see paradigm shifting changes, this is a very positive realization. For starters, the older generation will gradually fade away, and the promises made to them via pensions will not be on the table for younger generations. Pensions were a huge issue for the 65+ crowd when it came down to their voting decisions. The BBC noted that:

A recent BBC poll found that pensions came second in a list of the 10 things that mattered most to voters – only the economy was deemed more important.

The economy and pensions. So basically old people on the way out felt like they had a reasonable handle on what to expect under the current regime, and didn’t want to rock the boat. It’s really as simple as that.

Going forward, the older generation problem will naturally resolve itself. So we know that the youth will be deciding the future. Thus, the real question becomes, what will influence the youth?

As a result of the horrific and self-interested choices of older generations, the youth will be left with a much more difficult and uncertain future. This is already happening, but it will worsen considerably following the next severe economic decline, likely to start in late 2015.

My biggest concern is that fear will be used to drive the passions of the youth, rather than constructive, positive influences. We know that fear is an extremely powerful driver, and it more often than not leads to disastrous decision making. There is no doubt that the youth will decide the future, but will their passions be driven by negative emotions like fear, or positive sentiments like creativity, compassion and community? Only time will tell, but its up to us to be aware of this dynamic, understand exactly what is at stake, and attempt influence the outcome as positively as possible.

[FBD]

...and the inevitable...

doesnt want to show this one

www.youtube.com/watch?v=w5LcPZFAPy



This video does not exist.

who owns youtube again???

[PorkChopSandwiches]

An error occurred

[FBD]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kUR-HgAtwtg&feature=youtu.be&list=UUFjOi1ZpZVErr8EYxg8t1dQ


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jRWWilODlsc


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w5LcPZFAPyk

[redred]

:roll:

[Goofy]

Fear and loathing in Scotland :lol:

http://libertyblitzkrieg.com/2014/09/19/fear-and-loathing-in-scotland-why-the-nos-won-and-lessons-learned-from-the-vote/

http://libertyblitzkrieg.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/Screen-Shot-2014-09-19-at-10.09.11-AM.jpg

The NO vote was entirely secured by overwhelming support from those aged above 55. In fact, the “better together” camp failed to win any of the age groups below 55 years of age. For the 65+ crowd it was simply a blowout. 73% of them voted NO. So in a nutshell, old people filled with fear blocked independence. Similarly, fearful old people bailed out the banks in the U.S. several years ago, putting a nail in the coffin of the middle class and the youth generally. See what I am getting at here?

What we now know for certain is that old people in positions of wealth and power, and the ability to frighten others of their generation, is proving to be the most significant obstacle to global change. For those of us who wish to see paradigm shifting changes, this is a very positive realization. For starters, the older generation will gradually fade away, and the promises made to them via pensions will not be on the table for younger generations. Pensions were a huge issue for the 65+ crowd when it came down to their voting decisions. The BBC noted that:

A recent BBC poll found that pensions came second in a list of the 10 things that mattered most to voters – only the economy was deemed more important.

The economy and pensions. So basically old people on the way out felt like they had a reasonable handle on what to expect under the current regime, and didn’t want to rock the boat. It’s really as simple as that.

Going forward, the older generation problem will naturally resolve itself. So we know that the youth will be deciding the future. Thus, the real question becomes, what will influence the youth?

As a result of the horrific and self-interested choices of older generations, the youth will be left with a much more difficult and uncertain future. This is already happening, but it will worsen considerably following the next severe economic decline, likely to start in late 2015.

My biggest concern is that fear will be used to drive the passions of the youth, rather than constructive, positive influences. We know that fear is an extremely powerful driver, and it more often than not leads to disastrous decision making. There is no doubt that the youth will decide the future, but will their passions be driven by negative emotions like fear, or positive sentiments like creativity, compassion and community? Only time will tell, but its up to us to be aware of this dynamic, understand exactly what is at stake, and attempt influence the outcome as positively as possible.

That's a given! Any NO person i asked why they were voting no always answered "I'm afraid about my mortgage/i'm afraid we might lose the pound and have to join the Euro/I'm afraid the banks will all run away and we'll end up fucked etc etc etc", hardly anything positive about staying as part of the UK, always about what we "may" lose voting for independence! If nothing else it's been a massive wake-up call for the establishment at Westminster, i think they finally realise they can't walk all over us anymore and i thank Mr Salmond for that :)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kUR-HgAtwtg&feature=youtu.be&list=UUFjOi1ZpZVErr8EYxg8t1dQ


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jRWWilODlsc


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w5LcPZFAPyk

Loads of folk have been posting these on my facebook timeline.......... sorry but i don't buy into it :lol: We lost fair and square.......... well, more or less fair-ish