What does it mean to be American? The American dream?

[RBP]

My 17 year old nephew realized late last night that he needed an adult to answer two questions for a school assignment: What does it mean to be an American? and What does the American dream mean to you?

I was already in bed but I did my best to give the short form answers he required.

I am curious how others would have answered this. I'd also be interested in what the non-Americans might say to these questions.

My text responses verbatim:

The American Dream: The American dream means that no matter who you are or where you grew up, you have the chance to make the life you dream of a reality. The idea is that each generation can do better than the last.

Being an American: Being an American, to me, is believing that individual freedom, the rule of law, and opportunity, have created an enduring republic. We operate from a position of strength and are unwavering in our convictions. At the same time, we are the most generous nation on earth. Understanding both strength and compassion make this nation great.


What would you say??

[DemonGeminiX]

Didn't I post a thread along these same lines a few years ago? Yeah I did:

http://www.tehfalloutshelter.com/showthread.php?42040-The-American-Dream


To answer your question, I think you hit the nail on the head. There's not much else I would add to what you said.

[FBD]

The American Dream....used to be the understanding that this, being a free country, necessarily meant that the government's heavy hand was not impressed upon you at every step of the way...not being observed, tracked, scanned, harassed by government employees with nothing better to do. It meant that the government's footprint upon the population was light enough that it provided the field upon which the grass and flowers could grow. It was the notion that there was opportunity and the space with which to make it all happen. That if you worked hard and busted your ass, you got ahead and could live your life the way you wanted to, and actually got that part of life which was "the pursuit of happiness."

Being an American is embodying that dream. Understanding that individual freedom means we all should have the space to live, thrive and survive. Part of that individual freedom is the individual responsibility to not do things that will kill or take away from others' ability to have and experience said freedom.

Unfortunately the American dream has been perverted, rehypothecated a thousand times, leveraged a hundred times past its waning potential, all too many do things that directly restrict the freedoms of others, the government has chosen to purposefully destroy our currency, ignore the constitution and the rule of law, engage in massive resource wars, perform atrocities on the people so as to make everything nice and secure so that the populace does not french revolution their asses when the veil gets lifted and we all get to see the brick wall at the back of the theater. The entire American dream has been subverted and perverted and is no longer the land of opportunity, but the land of a guaranteed snap card and welfare, the land of preposterously high taxation, the land of police, insurance, and micromanaging control - sorry fellas, the American dream is but a perception at this point - just like the whole credibility of the federal reserve, government, is all about perception, because reality would show us just how badly things have gotten. The american dream is now somehow, some way, any way, it doesnt even matter - getting enough money so as to be above the law. Beneath that, the laws are meted out unmercifully, above that, the law is merely joked about.

The perception *needs* to be managed, lest Henry Ford's observation about the reality of what the purchasers of our government be seen by all. Because if the people writ large KNEW what the federal reserve is and what has happened at their behest (read = at the behest of the people that own the federal reserve banks like JPM, goldman, etc)...then mothafuckin banksters be swingin from mothafuckin lamp posts. Next street over, politicians, next street over, the boards of directors and executive staffs who have fucked the country's corporations and swindled hundreds of millions of dollars out of the system.....next street over, lawyers who justified every b it of the aforementioned with bullshit contrived legal jargon...

Its dead as fuck, and 9-11 was the shaved down toothbrush shiv to the kidney, the creation of the federal reserve is several loops of rope around the neck, Boston the no lube anal probe, sandy hook the spiky catheter. The government has become fucking bone cancer, local governments are the blistered feet, state governments tendonitis. And the war on terror - well, that's fucking child molestation.


Its going to be a bad outcome either way - because if things dont collapse, hello police state because they have managed to complete the theft and debt enslavement of the world. If things do collapse, it wi ll be both a dark and light day, because there will be such extreme hardship....but that would also means the chains will have been thrown to the ground.


Precarious times, gentlemen.

-the black cloud

[daggaz]

The american dream: the twisted lie that Americans are free and glorious and above all number one, and that everybody has the freedom and the opportunity to achieve success if only they work hard at it, and that none of this, not one iota of it, has anything to do with the rest of the world and america's long-standing imperialistic foreign policy of mass-murder, terrorism and political suppression. We are the great liberators and bringers of democracy. Such is the dream.

Being an american: believing in the american dream and supporting the troops and going to work every day for your corporate overlords and the rest of the ruling elite. You get a free freedom flag for taking this route. Wear it proudly, you deserve it.

Being a patriot: realising the truth in the sea of lies and fighting, cost what it may, to change your country for the better. America is an oligarchy and it is quickly going from police state to overwhelmingly dystopian police state. Wouldn't you like a constitutional republic, again?

[FBD]

^the reality of the perversion of the american dream

[Goofy]

The Scottish Dream - footy on the tv, beer in the fridge.

[Muddy]

The freedom to follow your personal pursuit of happiness. (providing its legal)

[RBP]

Wow, some rough thoughts here.

[Muddy]

Explain Spock.

[RBP]

Explain Spock.
Just referring to the gentlemen's thoughts above.

[Muddy]

Oh .. I haven't seen such anti-American sentiment since the days of AS! :lol:

[Hugh_Janus]

Oh .. I haven't seen such anti-American sentiment since the days of AS! :lol:

fuck you, you fatties :x

[HyperV12]

My 17 year old nephew realized late last night that he needed an adult to answer two questions for a school assignment: What does it mean to be an American? and What does the American dream mean to you?

I was already in bed but I did my best to give the short form answers he required.

I am curious how others would have answered this. I'd also be interested in what the non-Americans might say to these questions.

My text responses verbatim:

The American Dream: The American dream means that no matter who you are or where you grew up, you have the chance to make the life you dream of a reality. The idea is that each generation can do better than the last.

Being an American: Being an American, to me, is believing that individual freedom, the rule of law, and opportunity, have created an enduring republic. We operate from a position of strength and are unwavering in our convictions. At the same time, we are the most generous nation on earth. Understanding both strength and compassion make this nation great.


What would you say??

I agree with all you have said but i would take the 'American' bit out of it. We are all proud of our individual Nations, I hope, and aspire to everything you said for them. Where the problem arises is with people like Dagga-noidea, they twist anything said to meet their agenda and until that can be effectively countered I'm not sure where this will go or end.

[Muddy]

fuck you, you fatties :x

:slapchop:

[Muddy]

Id like to say for the record.. I respect others cultures and homes as well as my own.. I'd just as soon we all be happy.. :shrug:

[HyperV12]

The american dream: the twisted lie that Americans are free and glorious and above all number one, and that everybody has the freedom and the opportunity to achieve success if only they work hard at it, and that none of this, not one iota of it, has anything to do with the rest of the world and america's long-standing imperialistic foreign policy of mass-murder, terrorism and political suppression. We are the great liberators and bringers of democracy. Such is the dream.

Being an american: believing in the american dream and supporting the troops and going to work every day for your corporate overlords and the rest of the ruling elite. You get a free freedom flag for taking this route. Wear it proudly, you deserve it.

Being a patriot: realising the truth in the sea of lies and fighting, cost what it may, to change your country for the better. America is an oligarchy and it is quickly going from police state to overwhelmingly dystopian police state. Wouldn't you like a constitutional republic, again?

You Sir are an Idiot! The only lies that are being told are by the Taliban, ISIL or whatever initials they are going by this week and any or all muslim extremists that purport to be doing the will of Allah (Peace be upon Him). I'm an atheist so don't try to convert me. The basic tenet of any and all religions is "Be nice to each other" so to try to compare the situation in Afghanistan with a constitutional republic is frankly laughable at best and downright deluded whatever way one looks at it. Until psychos like the ISIL are routed out and eradicated there is no chance of peace, witness what happened with us and Northern Ireland vs the IRA.

[Muddy]

Well after reading it again, Daggas may not have been trashing the US, but more a clever way of saying he is unhappy in the ways we have devolved as a nation. In the end his post shows hope and a longing for what he believes is his American Dream. A better nation run by the people and not the corporate commercial infrastructure. True freedom. Im interested to see if I am correct..

[RBP]

Passionate discussion! I love it!

[HyperV12]

Well after reading it again, Daggas may not have been trashing the US, but more a clever way of saying he is unhappy in the ways we have devolved as a nation. In the end his post shows hope and a longing for what he believes is his American Dream. A better nation run by the people and not the corporate commercial infrastructure. True freedom. Im interested to see if I am correct..

http://media.tumblr.com/6d7f31a2b567558c07f6c712d0c7b7ba/tumblr_inline_napxc2P8eu1qbxca2.gif

[redred]

Passionate discussion! I love it!

:lol: must be a first on this site

[Goofy]

:lol: must be a first on this site
It sometimes happens in nsfw areas :mrgreen:

[redred]

:lol: yes those mostly keep on subject

[Pony]

You Sir are an Idiot!

Please don't insult other members.

[Muddy]

http://media.tumblr.com/6d7f31a2b567558c07f6c712d0c7b7ba/tumblr_inline_napxc2P8eu1qbxca2.gif

awesome gif!

[HyperV12]

Please don't insult other members.

I did call him Sir first....:oops:

[redred]

I did call him Sir first....:oops:

i think that was the insult http://www.quora.com/U-S-Manners-Etiquette/Why-do-Americans-dislike-being-called-Sir :lol:

[HyperV12]

i think that was the insult http://www.quora.com/U-S-Manners-Etiquette/Why-do-Americans-dislike-being-called-Sir :lol:

Oh dear Lord! :banghead:

[redred]

:lol:

[FBD]

You Sir are an Idiot! The only lies that are being told are by the Taliban, ISIL or whatever initials they are going by this week and any or all muslim extremists that purport to be doing the will of Allah (Peace be upon Him). I'm an atheist so don't try to convert me. The basic tenet of any and all religions is "Be nice to each other" so to try to compare the situation in Afghanistan with a constitutional republic is frankly laughable at best and downright deluded whatever way one looks at it. Until psychos like the ISIL are routed out and eradicated there is no chance of peace, witness what happened with us and Northern Ireland vs the IRA.

you forgot the /sarc tag

[HyperV12]

you forgot the /sarc tag

Say what now?

[Pony]

:lol:

[KevinD]

Haven't a clue about being an American. To my way of thinking there isn't any such animal. The original states joined together as a republic, and said republics only purpose was protection from other governments. All else belonged to the individual states. Therefore, I do not consider myself an American, but rather, a Texan.
What does being a Texan mean to me you may ask? Glad you did.
Being a Texan means upholding the values this state (and others) were founded on. Helping those who need help. Defending the defenseless. Etc. all nobel ideals, seldom achieved any more

[redred]

Say what now?

:sarcasm:

[FBD]

You Sir are an Idiot! The only lies that are being told are by the Taliban, ISIL or whatever initials they are going by this week and any or all muslim extremists that purport to be doing the will of Allah (Peace be upon Him). I'm an atheist so don't try to convert me. The basic tenet of any and all religions is "Be nice to each other" so to try to compare the situation in Afghanistan with a constitutional republic is frankly laughable at best and downright deluded whatever way one looks at it. Until psychos like the ISIL are routed out and eradicated there is no chance of peace, witness what happened with us and Northern Ireland vs the IRA.

Far as I've seen, those fuckers have been relatively straightforward with their intentions. Kill infidels, etc. The only "lie" in that game is the origins and funding and who made them the more powerful force they are today instead of merely being a threat from goat herders with sticks. So I'm not sure where you get that those people are the only ones telling lies. Are you that naive that you think your government, my government, dont lie through their teeth to us just about on a daily basis?

Yeah the IRA used to be a problem, but was the IRA created by you or northern ireland, covertly funded and trained, so as to have an excuse for more war? Or was the IRA an actual real grassroots thing that was intended to address something in particular? (rhetorical question.)

The world has no chance at peace until the owners of the federal reserve are swinging from lamp posts.

[HyperV12]

Far as I've seen, those fuckers have been relatively straightforward with their intentions. Kill infidels, etc. The only "lie" in that game is the origins and funding and who made them the more powerful force they are today instead of merely being a threat from goat herders with sticks. So I'm not sure where you get that those people are the only ones telling lies. Are you that naive that you think your government, my government, dont lie through their teeth to us just about on a daily basis?

I did not question their intentions, however misguided they may be, merely their assertion that their Deity has commanded them to do what they are doing. The Koran is largely a book of peace and the verses on killing the "Infidel" that I have read refer to 'Pushing him back out of your lands' not beheading journalists there simply to report on what is happening. That is merely the fact that they cannot get to the well trained troops other than with IEDs etc so take the easy way out and snatch the targets that they can so at least there is someone on their knees in front of a camera. On the funding, the Taliban were US and UK funded and supplied when it was Russia trying to control Afghanistan, is that to what you refer? The black market oil business is where the IS are getting most of their money right now since they control a large area now with oil rigs. Our governments have lied to us incessantly, witness the WMD/Iraq debacle not to mention the Assange/Wikileaks fiasco. That said however, what do you propose as a solution to that? The 'Secret Services' of our nations are by definition and necessity secret to try to counter the threats these groups pose and since they are government funded its a bit of a catch-22 don't you think?

Yeah the IRA used to be a problem, but was the IRA created by you or northern ireland, covertly funded and trained, so as to have an excuse for more war? Or was the IRA an actual real grassroots thing that was intended to address something in particular? (rhetorical question.)

This statement is by no stretch of the imagination rhetorical! The IRA came into existence because of the UK governments fuck up in trying to suppress Ireland and it had a reason to continue when we split Ireland into two when we withdrew in 1922. It was, and is still, a real grass roots thing as you put it. The largest funder of the IRA over the years has been Ex-Pat Irish in the US, in particular Boston, Chicago, San Francisco and New York.Their goal is now, as it was then, a united Ireland. So no, not rhetorical imho.

The world has no chance at peace until the owners of the federal reserve are swinging from lamp posts.

I disagree, the world has no chance of peace until all religion is banned, it is the root of all the major conflicts globally. Btw I know thats not a possibility but it would really help if it were!



*steps off soapbox and hands mic to the next guy*

[daggaz]

Well after reading it again, Daggas may not have been trashing the US, but more a clever way of saying he is unhappy in the ways we have devolved as a nation. In the end his post shows hope and a longing for what he believes is his American Dream. A better nation run by the people and not the corporate commercial infrastructure. True freedom. Im interested to see if I am correct..

Indeed, you are correct. I am extremely passionate for my country... not so much for 'America' as a sort of brand you are born with, which is sadly the only thing many of her citizens understand, but for the ideals which stood at the foundation of the country. But I'm no fool, either, and there has never been a 'golden age' where those ideals stood in a pure and glorious utopia, held in a vacuum away from corruption, abuse of power, and alterior motives. We are, and always have been, a nation of men. For better or worse. That said, we have come so far from where we once stood. America is truly on her knees.

I'm happy to go into it in more detail, and welcome a discussion/debate on the subject. It's important, and people desperately need to talk about it. Like I said, I'm passionate.


You Sir are an Idiot! The only lies that are being told are by the Taliban, ISIL or whatever initials they are going by this week and any or all muslim extremists that purport to be doing the will of Allah (Peace be upon Him). I'm an atheist so don't try to convert me. The basic tenet of any and all religions is "Be nice to each other" so to try to compare the situation in Afghanistan with a constitutional republic is frankly laughable at best and downright deluded whatever way one looks at it. Until psychos like the ISIL are routed out and eradicated there is no chance of peace, witness what happened with us and Northern Ireland vs the IRA.

Normally I wouldn't even respond to this kind of remark, but now it serves to highlight just how far some people have their heads up in their own asses. I dont even know where to begin, honestly, other than to say that I said nothing specifically about Afghanistan, or about the Taliban or the ISIL, or anything about religion for that matter. I certainly didnt compare Afghanistan with a constitutional republic. I should also add, that 'the only lies we are being told are...' is such a preposterous and impossibly absolute statement, I have to shake my head that you can speak it without the slightest indication of self-criticism. The irony is compounded by the fact that US intelligence services have such deep ties to both the Taliban and ISIL.

If you want to serve your country, don't bark at spectres, dangerous as they are, like such a good dog. Look instead to the men who are waving the marionettes.

As one final remark, you also need to drop the television and pick up a few history books. The IRA was never eradicated, for example. It was active clear up into the 90's, it only disarmed and disbanded under its own auspices (at least publicly), and its political momentum was transformed instead into the Sinn Féin party, which is still growing in power. Your ignorance would be astonishing, if it weren't so commonplace.

[FBD]

I understand your POV hyper - but you called them a bunch of liars and basically gave our leadership a pass in the post I was responding to, and that was bollocks. You may be of the opinion that religion is the root of all global conflict, but you would be mistaken in asserting such a thing, because money and resources have always been item #1 fought over throughout history. Do you honestly think that "religious wars" were not wars of conquest, resource, money? "Because God said so" only fools the dupes, its the guy that came up with because god said so who was the nefarious one.

And wrt/ "creations"...if you dont know that AQ, IS are direct creations of the CIA then you really need to take daggaz' advice and toss your telly out the window.

[HyperV12]

I apologise if I've offended anyone in here it was not my intention so to do, I also apologise to RBP for the thread mini-jack.

[Muddy]

We have some hefty discussions from time to time V12.. I don't think anybodies pissed..

[daggaz]

Lol, definitely not pissed off, but if you are going to start in by calling me an idiot, you damn well better not be shooting from the hip. :fu:

[HyperV12]

Lol, definitely not pissed off, but if you are going to start in by calling me an idiot, you damn well better not be shooting from the hip. :fu:

Fair point well made.:wavey:

[KevinD]

Best thing about this site is the discussions about certain topics. We have folks from vastly different backgrounds and differing views. There is no "right" answer to many serious issues, but with a civilized discourse, we can begin to see where the difference are, and sometimes even reach a consensus. Too bad the real world doesn't seem to work the same way.

[Teh One Who Knocks]

Haven't a clue about being an American. To my way of thinking there isn't any such animal. The original states joined together as a republic, and said republics only purpose was protection from other governments. All else belonged to the individual states. Therefore, I do not consider myself an American, but rather, a Texan.
What does being a Texan mean to me you may ask? Glad you did.
Being a Texan means upholding the values this state (and others) were founded on. Helping those who need help. Defending the defenseless. Etc. all nobel ideals, seldom achieved any more

If Texas is so great, why do you all keep moving here and fucking up the traffic every time it looks like weather outside? :x

It's a close race as to which people are the most infuriating, the Texans or the Californians that keep flooding this state [-(

[daggaz]

If Texas is so great, why do you all keep moving here and fucking up the traffic every time it looks like weather outside? :x

It's a close race as to which people are the most infuriating, the Texans or the Californians that keep flooding this state [-(

You from Oregon, Teh? If so, do you remember the billboard we used to have on I-5 at the California border? Was up for years, before the PC crowd took over in politics.

"Welcome to Beautiful Green Oregon. Enjoy your visit, but for God's sake, don't move here!"

[Teh One Who Knocks]

You from Oregon, Teh? If so, do you remember the billboard we used to have on I-5 at the California border? Was up for years, before the PC crowd took over in politics.

"Welcome to Beautiful Green Oregon. Enjoy your visit, but for God's sake, don't move here!"

Nope, Colorado :thumbsup:

[KevinD]

Dunno why texans are moving to Colorado. First I've heard of it, lol. Maybe it's all that "Rocky Mountain High" lol

[Teh One Who Knocks]

It's been going on as long as I have lived here, long before all the pot BS :nono:

[KevinD]

Old article from Denver Times. Makes sense now.


Growing up in Colorado, I was raised -- there is no gentle way to put this -- to hate Texans. It wasn't just me; everyone disdained the Lone Star state.

We hated the big hair and country music. We even hated Roger Staubach and Tom Landry, if you can believe that.

Texans were the ones snowplowing down our ski slopes at 70 mph, crashing into everyone and wearing those straw cowboy hats. No one could do anything about it, either, because chances were those kamikaze cowboy snowplowers actually owned the ski areas.

That's what it boiled down to, really -- Coloradans resented Texans because we viewed them as interlopers, folks with too much money who encroached on our beautiful mountains, even though those Texas dollars were great for the economy.

I was cured of my bigotry years ago, and today will tell anyone I know that Texas is one of the truly special places on Earth, that Texans are unusually blessed with a warm-hearted zeal for life. I've lived in 10 states and spent time in most of the others, so I know of which I speak.

A couple of weeks ago, however, on a visit back to Colorado, I learned that Colorado has a new nemesis: California.

I hired a fly-fishing guide in Telluride, a guy who has been working the Rockies for more than 30 years. "You live in Texas, so we have some things in common," the guide said, something no self-respecting Coloradan would have said 30 years ago. He wore a straw cowboy hat, and even sounded a little Texan himself when he added, with dry disdain, "But these Californians ..."

[Noilly Pratt]

A cynical thought from a Canadian rock group on the American dream after touring and trying to get successful in the U.S.A.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wlv8jvOyutY