Hal's Policeman Primer for Dummies

[Hal-9000]

Seems that some people need a simple, step by step manual for interactions with Five-0. As always, I'm happy to help and clarify for the masses :)


1. When the police approach you and say - DON'T MOVE AND PUT YOUR HANDS UP! You should:

a. Keep right on rollin along, the police are great kidders and jokesters.
b. Put your hands into your jacket or pants pockets, and/or make suspicious moves near your junk.
c. Lunge right at the po-po officers, they love a challenge and a good practical joke.
d. Resist their attempts at controlling you, they also love refresher courses on restrictive holds and take down maneuvers.
e. Yell, scream at and insult them with vigor. They expect that and appreciate good give and take interactive communications with the public.

f. Do exactly what they ask, when they ask it, because they have guns, tasers and the numbers advantage.



If you picked F, congratulations! You may think your rights have been violated or that you've been mistreated and/or unfairly accused of something. But you will also have a 99.99% chance of complaining about it the following day to someone else :tup:


* you see, cops are looking at your hands, your legs, your pockets, down the street, at other cars in the area....they're seeing about a hundred little things when they roll up on you. They will note your color yes, but they are waaaaay more interested in your actions within that critical 3 seconds of the initial meet n greet.

[RBP]

I was at a mall today. Two stores I probably would have spent money in had "I Can't Breathe" shirts in the window. Me and my wallet kept walking.

[Hal-9000]

A story from my life...

When I was in grade 8 I had really long hair, wore a jean jacket, jeans and blue Nike runners. I used to walk over to a friend's house nightly, he lived in the ghettos (low income housing). We would get stoned, listen to music etc and then I would walk home around midnight.

The police stopped me 6 times within 10 days. Filled out a suspect card each time and I had to endure probing questions about who I was, where I was going and where I lived. About stop number 4 or 5, I got agitated and told the officer I had been through this before, they need to stop harassing me and I don't understand why I am their target.

Cop says - Sorry hal. There have been a number of sexual assaults in the neighborhood and you fit the description. We need to eliminate people and the guy has attacked three women already.

Within the next few days at school they put up a composite sketch of the guy and a description. It was pretty forward thinking for the time, none of us had ever seen anything that serious at school before. The picture kinda resembled me...long hair, 6 feet tall, about my weight, the same brand of jean jacket.

About a month later they caught the guy. He molested a 13 yr old girl, as well as a 40 yr old woman walking into her yard one night among others...


I'll never forget being stoned out of my face, sitting in the back of the cruiser and what the cop said to me. I assumed he was harassing me about vandalism or smoking pot or theft and I was quite annoyed...but if those guys didn't follow up on leads, talk to people, pull in random suspects....how many more women (in this case) would have been assaulted?

[DemonGeminiX]

I was at a mall today. Two stores I probably would have spent money in had "I Can't Breathe" shirts in the window. Me and my wallet kept walking.

I wanted to buy the "I support Officer Wilson" t-shirt back when the Ferguson riots were still big in the media. I've thought about picking up an NYPD t-shirt.

I figured, knowing me, I might wear either one with pride out in public. But also knowing my bad luck, I figured I might get shot... so I didn't buy either one.

[RBP]

I wanted to buy the "I support Officer Wilson" t-shirt back when the Ferguson riots were still big in the media. I've thought about picking up an NYPD t-shirt.

I figured, knowing me, I might wear either one with pride out in public. But also knowing my bad luck, I figured I might get shot... so I didn't buy either one.

The people yelling about free speech and not having to live in fear are the same ones that will try to suppress your speech through fear and violent retaliation. That stunning irony and hypocrisy tell you all you need to know about this "movement".

[FBD]

Seems that some people need a simple, step by step manual for interactions with Five-0. As always, I'm happy to help and clarify for the masses :)


1. When the police approach you and say - DON'T MOVE AND PUT YOUR HANDS UP! You should:

Do police really just approach someone out of the blue and just say dont move and put your hands up?


a. Keep right on rollin along, the police are great kidders and jokesters.
b. Put your hands into your jacket or pants pockets, and/or make suspicious moves near your junk.
c. Lunge right at the po-po officers, they love a challenge and a good practical joke.
d. Resist their attempts at controlling you, they also love refresher courses on restrictive holds and take down maneuvers.
e. Yell, scream at and insult them with vigor. They expect that and appreciate good give and take interactive communications with the public.

f. Do exactly what they ask, when they ask it, because they have guns, tasers and the numbers advantage.

or g, establish a line of communication with them and ask if this is pursuant to an ongoing investigation - if'n which case it is, and you just so happen to look like a suspect, then they have actually given you a reason to detain you, and are obliged to go with them and then challenge the detainment - unless of course they actually have a certain suspect in mind and you can prove you are not them.

now if it is NOT pursuant to a currently ongoing investigation - then what the hell are they saying this for? If they cant give details of an ongoing investigation, then they have to basis to detain you, and if they detain you, they have to charge you with something.

See, it helps to know the law and know how to talk to the cops, and mention the laws by name and statue # if you really want to stop a cop right in his tracks.

If you picked F, congratulations! You may think your rights have been violated or that you've been mistreated and/or unfairly accused of something. But you will also have a 99.99% chance of complaining about it the following day to someone else :tup:


* you see, cops are looking at your hands, your legs, your pockets, down the street, at other cars in the area....they're seeing about a hundred little things when they roll up on you. They will note your color yes, but they are waaaaay more interested in your actions within that critical 3 seconds of the initial meet n greet.

that's among the dumber strawmen I've seen, hal...you gave 5 obviously dumb or suicidal options and then one cowering rights-abandoning one.

the correct answer there was none of the above. merely because the simple stop and show your hands went on to say do whatever they tell you to. NO. that is not correct.

because fact of the matter is, if you know how to talk to cops in language that they KNOW puts a stop to their action if their intent isnt entirely kosher (and they still have to abide by some sort of code of conduct, I mean face it there's places where this code of conduct doesnt quite exist,) then they are not going to just try to violate your rights when you know what your rights are and can calmly articulate them to a cop without being confrontational about it.

Cops are TRAINED on how to get you to VOLUNTARILY GIVE UP YOUR RIGHTS. Why? Because it LEGALLY ABSOLVES THEM if you have (stupidly) given them consent for something like a car search.

Once you have voluntarily given up your rights, they can basically have their way with you.

If you dont know how to assert those rights properly, they can have their way with you.

[Hal-9000]

:hand:

"Do police really just approach someone out of the blue and just say dont move and put your hands up?"

Daily. But the part we are going to argue on is what constitutes ' out of the blue ' ? To you, it may seem out of the blue. To the cops, they will have a reason. That's where your argument falls apart.


"or g, establish a line of communication with them and ask if this is pursuant to an ongoing investigation "

I've questioned cops before on why they're stopping me (us). Most cops will want to control the situation so questions about why and how they're doing their jobs at that particular moment in time will be met with mixed results.

A friend and I were stopped on a Saturday afternoon....friend was the driver and he was taken into a squad car for hours, and I was questioned in our vehicle. We were both royally pissed at the infringement upon our rights, because we had done nothing more than pick up a 1/4 pound of hash and were on our way back home to cut it up. Discovered later that within 3 blocks of us, there was a robbery and shooting. Perpetrators were in their early 20's. One guy had long blonde hair about 6 feet tall, the other was about 6'3'' with dark hair. They were driving a green or blue truck. My friend's truck was a green 72 Chev pick up...

I asked a number of questions and was treated like a child, being told to shut up often. So I did.


We we treated badly? No, not thrown to the ground or physically abused in any way. Was it uncomfortable and seemingly unfair? Yes....it took over two hours out of my day and inconvenienced our dope smoking.

Point is/was - we matched the descriptions perfectly and his vehicle was a ringer for the one used in the actual crime. Cops didn't know this at the time. They HAD TO INVESTIGATE and rule out potentials.


I have no sympathy for a person who automatically disobeys a cop's instructions. The cop doesn't know you and won't....until you answer his questions. When they are awarded a gun and a badge, it does afford them a certain right to stop citizens and question situations. They may be wrong, they may make mistakes....but the law enforcement system has been built upon the idea that police officers are given these rights for a reason.

If we all automatically assume 'cops are violating my rights' when they give you commands to stop, to search your car, to empty your pockets....they're actually establishing your innocence.

I make jokes about Americans, yet there is a mentality some of you have that borders on the absurd when it comes to authority. You have check stops for drunk drivers and get offended that the locations are not listed beforehand :lol: Duhhh, kinda takes the possibility of an impaired driving charge out of the equation if you can plot a route from the bar to home.

Same with the criminal who is driving around with an unregistered weapon. He gets all butthurt because a cop stops him and wants to search his car? What if he just shot up a couple of people in some apartment and because the cops don't want to 'infringe on the little darlings personal rights', they never check him?

There's two sides to this subject. You can't let authorities walk all over you ...AND...we give law enforcement people certain rights and abilities for a reason. Cause we obviously don't do well policing ourselves.

[Hal-9000]

another story from my colorful life...

One afternoon I came out of London Drugs with a bag of stuff, there was a young guy leaning against my car door. Right away I felt that something was wrong....his body language, his attitude...the fact he was nonchalantly leaning against my car? Who knows.

I said instantly - Get the fuck away from my car, NOW.

Just like in the movies, he glanced over my shoulder briefly...and then I felt something hitting the back of my legs.(it was his buddy trying to kick me from behind I later found out).

So I threw guy 1 into my car, held his shirt with one hand and punched him until he started drooping a little. I turned around and while doing that, elbowed his buddy quite squarely in the face (by chance) and then started trying to punch him. He puts his hands up and about two seconds later he was laying in the parking lot too.

I was enraged..seeing red...and also very scared.

A cop car instantly rolls up to us. Cop comes out screaming for me to get on my knees and put my hands in the air. Keep in mind this is around 5 pm on a sunny afternoon in a drugstore parking lot :lol: One cop puts me in the back of the cruiser, while the other is talking to the guys near my car. One of the guys is crying...

I start to tell what happened and am told to 'shut my fucking mouth'. I'm told that I'll be getting charged with assault. Because I'm older and a little bit bigger, than the 'kids'. The one 'kid' was over 6 feet tall, I may have outweighed them by a little, but it's not important to the story...

Point is - I can't say a word in my own defense. Cops say they witnessed me assaulting one of the guys. So I say one thing - It's pretty bad when someone gets robbed in broad daylight, defends himself and then gets charged for it. Cop then says - A bar/restaurant just opened 100 feet from here and there's a waitress who wants to talk to us. We'll be right back.

I'm at the point where I feel that every right I had was violated and I'm actually looking to the future, thinking about the trial and my defense. The cops don't want to hear any part of my story, I'm guilty and that's that.

Cop comes back after talking to a few people in the bar and then asks very politely if I could come to the station and make a statement. Apparently now, multiple witnesses corroborate my story about the two guys trying to jump me and the cop says - We have to wait for another car to take the other two into custody. I see that both guys are restrained in cuffs or tie offs, still standing in the lot.

I go down, make my statement and the cop actually apologizes to me, explaining their perception based on what they saw entering the parking lot. Then he tells me that the other two guys may have some history of criminal activity. He takes me back to my car and thanks me....

Not over yet....about three days later the same cop calls me and asks if I wouldn't mind coming to the downtown station and identifying one of the guys. He may have been involved in some ATM assaults and robberies. All I have to do is literally point to him in a room (not a line up) and sign another statement. I do that....they give me coffee and a donut and that's the last I heard of it. They asked initially if I wanted to press assault charges and I declined. I told the cop no one got a chance to hit me and I know I probably rearranged someone's nose :lol:




If the cops use excessive force or kill someone for no reason, yes they should be held accountable. But until we do their jobs for about ten years, how would we ever know the protective measures that cops have to take?

No offense to the Amercanos once again, but you live in a country where people are encouraged to carry firearms. It's not a privilege, it's a right according to the masses. And not everyone follows the rules, in terms of registration and/or safe gun handling. So when the cops roll up on an unknown situation (YOU), their safety is likely at the forefront of their minds...because they don't know you're just an average Joe who's following the rules and doing very little in the way of committing a crime.

[FBD]

Your anecdotes are all well and good, Hal, but right after your pause there is the ocean liner sized hole of accountability. The justice system protects cops as a de facto law, to such an extent that the police feel they have a blank check to deal with a situation however they see fit and perchance they have to shoot a motherfucker up 45 times and hit him maybe 8 or 10, it is a veritable certainty they will not face any charges.

You guys can try using all the stories you want about how you met a cop who didnt abuse your rights or otherwise be a complete dick to you because he assumed you were guilty of something without a second thought, but the growing data and new reports are saying otherwise.

[Goofy]

I agree with Hal on all points tbh....... but that's probably because Canada and the UK don't have one handgun per head of population. If i stayed in the US i'd most definitely own a handgun purely because everyone else has one so i'd feel the need to have it for protection. Over here in the UK i can honestly say i've never seen or touched a fully operational handgun. On that basis alone i can see why US cops are a lot more "brash" in their style, i'd do exactly the same if i was wearing a cop uniform and approaching an unknown, fuck getting shot just for doing your job - i'd rather have the upper hand at all times.

How difficult is it just to do what an officer says? :-k Do they ask you to play naked twister or something? What am i missing? Do you carry illegal stuff in your car regularly? :shrug:

[FBD]

No, the point is, we have written down enumerated rights and they are being regularly violated by the police. And regularly given passes by the judiciary because of their protected status as law enforcement. If you are a member of the government, it entitles you to certain protections. Fact.

How difficult is it to approach someone in a calm and rational way? Its only when there's all kinds of miscommunication that the bad stuff happens.

I vehemently disagree with givng a cop the benefit of the doubt in a situation merely because of the fact that he supposedly represents the law, when I've seen and heard all too many times how being a representative of the law is an excuse to not obey the law. It is codified into most police departments, it is a fact that a great many police are trained in ways to get around your rights, and the easiest way is to assume the citizen doesnt know his rights (most times they dont, and if they do, its usually surrounded by a large gray area) and test how much they know their rights via subtle methods where it doesnt appear that they are directly violating your rights.

I mean, if a cop's telling you to shut the fuck up, obviously you werent patient with the unfolding of the situation.

And while there are a lot of eric garners out there that are mainly known by the cops because they were "involved" in "a few situations"...giving the cops a pass in a situation like that...I dont know...I dont know how people watched the same video I did and came to the conclusions they did, because that one was straight up manslaughter and there was no way in hell the cop should have been able to beat a conviction, much less a simple indictment. that is the judiciary protecting the officers plain and simple and its a stupid ass travesty so many people see it the way it was framed and cooked and prepared for them, yum, tasty just like a fuggin tv dinner full of chemicals.

whatever. you guys can believe what you want and just assume they're all your friends and have your best interests at heart, but policemen are there for one reason only - to make sure the government does not have civil problems with its population, and they have taken on the extra duty of revenue collection these days also since the state has an incessant appetite for people's money and the utter wasting thereof.

[Hal-9000]

Your anecdotes are all well and good, Hal, but right after your pause there is the ocean liner sized hole of accountability. The justice system protects cops as a de facto law, to such an extent that the police feel they have a blank check to deal with a situation however they see fit and perchance they have to shoot a motherfucker up 45 times and hit him maybe 8 or 10, it is a veritable certainty they will not face any charges.

You guys can try using all the stories you want about how you met a cop who didnt abuse your rights or otherwise be a complete dick to you because he assumed you were guilty of something without a second thought, but the growing data and new reports are saying otherwise.


I agree....with that.


As you may have gleaned, I've been treated both good and bad by cops...but when it gets to the point where people (you) suspect, disobey and mistrust cops from the get-go...based on 'data', you're undermining their ability to do any good.

I said it in the Boston bomber thread and I'll repeat it here - Getting away from the who did it argument or was it faked argument...the police had located a potentially dangerous suspect in a 10 block radius. They started going house to house to find him. And all I heard from you and people with a like mind, was how the cops violated your civil rights and oh Lord, this is the end of the world as we know it because it will only lead to further rights being violated etc, etc... woe is us if we allow this to happen.

It was a fluid situation that demanded action and as stated, if I lived in that neighborhood, hell yes the cops would be allowed to enter my home and search for a dangerous suspect. And here's the keys to my garage because I don't want to discover some fuckwit out there with weapons or incendiary devices cowering behind my car.


In a more simple, to the thread point couple of sentences - Cops have to operate on instinct. Yes, some cops are bullies and do the wrong thing. In my experiences, not based on statistics or data, the cops are still on the plus side in terms of keeping us safe and not hurting us.

I would never defend a cop who kills someone when the suspect is following the cop's direction. That cop needs to be investigated and charged, sentenced, outside of the realm of police people.

But if the person starts complaining about their rights, refusing certain actions and hindering the investigation...I can see why cops get frustrated and suspicious...and nervous.

[FBD]

That is why it is important to know the law, know the statues that are important for your rights - because when you say them by name, the cops know that you know the law and so long as he;s not a fucking mercenary, should respect that. When you can calmly and patiently articulate that, that is your best path forward to be able to both protect your rights and not have a cop act like a wild animal and snap and kill you for what would seem in your head to be no reason.

Boston.....Boston was nothing more than a test on the 4th Amendment to see how easy it would be to have an excuse to bust into people's homes. It was a false flag. Set. Up. So of course if they wanted to have a suspect found and they scared and chased those poor two kids.

If those swat teams showed up at my door, I'm sorry, but they would have wound up cuffing and beating me, because I would have told them sorry fellas, we have a 4th amendment in this country, now show me a warrant or get the fuck off my property. And then I'd have the video taken and get every single one of their names from their badges as they came through my door, sued each and every one of them personally as well as sue the department and state itself if I had to, and then when that all failed, resort to more subtle methods.

They picked Boston "strong" for a reason - its weak as all fucking hell and they knew the pansies there would bend right over and let the nice men in the swat uniforms in.

Imagine that having happened in Texas?

*cups ear*

I can hear Kev laughing from here.

[Hal-9000]

That's where we differ the most FBD...if a SWAT team showed up at my door itchin to get in...I don't think I'd be asking about warrants...


at that moment in time, they're better trained than I am...they have more firepower, and FFS man....they wear that body armor :x


I'd have to let them commit whatever actions they want (partly out of respect, partly out of common sense and fear) and try to evaluate later what parts of my life were violated and what actions I'm going to take

[Goofy]

No, the point is

Not reading any further since you're basically saying i'm not allowed an opinion :nana: We already know "YOUR point", i was showing you "MY" point of view from a UK citizen's standpoint :) "THE" point changes over the years.

[Hal-9000]

FBD buddy.........we're going to see you on the news one day, right? :lol:











*can I have your recording and music equipment when you go away?

[Pony]

I agree with Hal on all points tbh....... but that's probably because Canada and the UK don't have one handgun per head of population. If i stayed in the US i'd most definitely own a handgun purely because everyone else has one so i'd feel the need to have it for protection.

Just to clear up a misleading statistic... Just because we have as many guns as people here doesn't mean everyone has one. Most people I know that have firearms own many. Plus we don't know if that statistic includes guns that are in shops for sale, military, etc.

In rural areas there probably is a gun for every adult kept at home. In the city and suburbs it's probably 1 adult in 10 or more that own one and maybe 1 in 50 or more that carry at all times. Personally i would like to see the real statistics on it.

[FBD]

That's where we differ the most FBD...if a SWAT team showed up at my door itchin to get in...I don't think I'd be asking about warrants...


at that moment in time, they're better trained than I am...they have more firepower, and FFS man....they wear that body armor :x


I'd have to let them commit whatever actions they want (partly out of respect, partly out of common sense and fear) and try to evaluate later what parts of my life were violated and what actions I'm going to take
I dont care, if they say they are a representative of the law, then goddammit proceed according to the law....yeah, they'd have beaten and cuffed me, because I would not have willingly let them in. Because yes, I would say, with a foot behind the door an AR-15 pointed at my forehead, what, are you going to shoot me for not letting you violate my rights? and smile?

Will a.....hahaha....will a grand jury simply conclude the swat team was just doing their job in having pulled the trigger? :lol:



Not reading any further since you're basically saying i'm not allowed an opinion :nana: We already know "YOUR point", i was showing you "MY" point of view from a UK citizen's standpoint :) "THE" point changes over the years.
Incorrect on that goof. I'm not saying my opinion is right and yours is wrong. Its perspective. You spoke of guns and feelings and whether you felt you needed one or not and projected that into the stereotypical scared shitless cop - this discussion is centered around interactions with police and where they are justified, how to assert one's rights and such with the object of keeping your rights intact and not getting beaten or killed by the cops in the process. Realize that this is simply a matter of your country being a bit further down that particular aspect of tyranny than my country, in having "disarmed" its folk. So the weak are unable to stand on equal footing is somehow a more equitable state?

Also I dont understand the notion that a cop fears for his life every second of his shift. That is pure straight up bollocks large enough to require a horse drawn cart. A cop knows damn well all he needs to say is he feared for his life or he was just following his training and all guilt is absolved in the system, while outside of the system the people see guilt covering guilt.

That is the justification for a policeman to act in any range of brutal ways? A cop fears for his life the entire time he's on the job, and he just wants to return home to his family? Therefore any laws or restrictions placed on those representing the law are preventing him from doing his job......right, I didnt think you all agreed with that, its just where we disagree is that you guys seem to want to excuse the behavior and say well that's just how things are and accept the direction the stick leads the carrot. Stimulus, response. Are we fucking amoebas here? I dont understand the excusing people do for "law" "enforcement" that is clearly unlawful enforcement. Or perhaps its just permeated a bit too much, the notion that its ok for law to decide what's lawful on a whim. The whim is only implied, because it doesnt exist on paper but exists in the real world.

:shrug: sorry for questioning authority, it appears I'm the crazy one :lol:

[Hal-9000]

"appears"






Don't undervalue yourself FBD :lol: :lol:



:dance:

[FBD]

:lol: my best friends uncle says all the time...dude...wtf would he do without you, you make everything happen :lol: