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RBP
02-09-2011, 12:36 PM
WASHINGTON—The House on Tuesday failed to extend the life of three surveillance tools that are key to the nation's post-Sept. 11 anti-terror law, a slipup for the new Republican leadership that miscalculated the level of opposition.

The House voted 277-148 to keep the three provisions of the USA Patriot Act on the books until Dec. 8. But Republicans brought up the bill under a special expedited procedure requiring a two-thirds majority, and the vote was seven short of reaching that level.

The Republicans, who took over the House last month, lost 26 of their own members, adding to the 122 Democrats who voted against it. Supporters say the three measures are vital to preventing another terrorist attack, but critics say they infringe on civil liberties. They appealed to the antipathy that newer and more conservative Republicans hold for big government invasions of individual privacy.

Earlier on Tuesday, Republicans also pulled a bill from the floor because of dissatisfaction about extending trade benefits for three South American countries while continuing a program that helps retrain Americans who lose their jobs to foreign competition.

The Patriot Act bill would have renewed the authority for court-approved roving wiretaps that permit surveillance on multiple phones. Also addressed was Section 215, the so-called library records provision that gives the FBI court-approved access to "any tangible thing" relevant to a terrorism investigation.

The third deals with the "lone-wolf" provision of a 2004 anti-terror law that permits secret intelligence surveillance of non-U.S. people not known to be affiliated with a specific terrorist organization.

Rep. James Sensenbrenner, R-Wis., the former Judiciary Committee chairman who authored the 2001 Patriot Act, urged his colleagues to support the extensions, saying they were needed as a stopgap until permanent statutes could be agreed upon.

"The terrorist threat has not subsided and will not expire, and neither should our national security laws," he said.

But Rep. Dennis Kucinich, D-Ohio, said Republican supporters of the tea party movement should show their opposition to big government by joining Democrats in opposing the measure.

"How about the Patriot Act, which has the broadest reach and the deepest reach of government to our daily lives?" he asked.

The defeat means that Republicans may have to bring the bill back to the floor under regular procedures that only require a majority for passage but allow for amendments. Time is of the essence: The three provisions will expire on Feb. 28 if the House and Senate can't agree on how to proceed.

The House had pushed for a nine-month extension to give lawmakers more time to come up with an approach that would give the measures permanent legal status. The Senate is considering longer-range ideas.

Senate Judiciary Committee Chairman Patrick Leahy, D-Vt., last month introduced legislation that would extend the three provisions through 2013 while improving oversight of intelligence-gathering tools. Leahy would also phase out, at the end of 2013, the use of national security letters, FBI demands for information that do not need a judge's approval.

The Senate also has on its legislative calendar a bill by Sen. Dianne Feinstein, D-Calif., that would reauthorize the three measures through 2013 and a Republican proposal that would make them permanent.

The White House, in a statement, said it did not object to the House bill but "would strongly prefer" extending the provisions to the end of 2013, saying that "provides the necessary certainty and predictability that our nation's intelligence and law enforcement agencies require."

Leahy, who introduced a nearly identical bill last year that the Senate did not take up, said in December that he had received a letter from Attorney General Eric Holder saying that the Justice Department was implementing several oversight and civil liberties measures included in his legislation.

Those included requirements that the government show relevance to an authorized investigation when seeking library or bookseller records, and similarly that the FBI show that information it is seeking with a national security letter is relevant to an investigation.

Michelle Richardson, legislative counsel of the American Civil Liberties Union, said she was "glad to see there is bipartisan opposition to the Patriot Act 10 years later." The ACLU is a strong opponent of the three provisions, saying they lack proper and fundamental privacy safeguards.

http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2011/02/09/house_rejects_extensions_of_patriot_act_provisions/

Teh One Who Knocks
02-09-2011, 12:56 PM
I wish they'd repeal the whole thing :wha:

Godfather
02-09-2011, 08:02 PM
You guys must be torn about this though... I mean, if they could give you a bunch of tangible evidence this has stopped terrorist attacks would you change your mind?

But at the same time, it's creepy and could just keep leading to graver and graver invasions of privacy :wha:

Complicated stuff

RBP
02-09-2011, 10:07 PM
I think it was an oversite that will be corrected... even Obama wants it to continue as a national security imperative.

Binky
02-10-2011, 02:40 AM
The question is at what point are civil liberties at stake, give them an inch...
US officials had information (http://www.globaljihad.net/view_page.asp?id=70)from the Philippine government regarding the plot to high jack commercial flights and crash them into US territories, among many other information (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/article1051186.ece?token=null&offset=0&page=1)sources. It's absolutely insane, the government (FBI, CIA) never needed any permission, I mean that loosely, to abduct innocent people and torture them (illegal rendition), they just do it. Bush Jr endorsed Secret of the State so he doesn't have to explain anything they do under suspicion alone, he doesn't have to answer the UN either, US amended the CAT (http://www.hrweb.org/legal/cat.html) in order to let the US government, (not us, the people government) could intentionally go against national law sorry, tired, babbling
...while that asshole sat reading a book to a classroom I mean for the love of .. blah (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/knew/)

Godfather
02-10-2011, 07:46 AM
This is a tad off topic but:

Do you guys ever get bothered by how many freaking organizations you have monitoring shit in and outside of the country :lol: These agencies aren't exactly monitored by congress, regulated and ensured as law-abiding, and their budgets are shady to say the least

I think the US has something like 18 intelligence agencies... FBI, OICI, DIA, CIA, NRO, NSA, TFI, D&A... the list goes on :lol:

If anything I'm anti-conspiracy theory and think believing the government is some evil-all-powerful-big-brother entity is for loonies who hide in bunkers... but holy crap that's a lot of groups watching that most people don't know exist. :-k

Do they really all care or strictly stick to whatever the House says about the patriot act anyways?

I dono what my point is... it's just interesting, and unnerving.

RBP
02-10-2011, 09:38 AM
I dono what my point is... it's just interesting, and unnerving.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-JLbAePwoHQ

Godfather
02-10-2011, 09:40 AM
Ironic :-k

RBP
02-10-2011, 09:55 AM
you're still up? :lol:

Godfather
02-10-2011, 10:00 AM
Yeah... I've got a strange sleeping pattern.... no job and no school will do that :lol:

RBP
02-10-2011, 10:01 AM
Get a job Hippie! :x

Godfather
02-10-2011, 10:02 AM
Nahhhh

RBP
02-10-2011, 10:07 AM
:lol: puff puff pass...

Godfather
02-10-2011, 10:07 AM
That I can do :lol:

Binky
02-10-2011, 11:51 AM
This is a tad off topic but:

Do you guys ever get bothered by how many freaking organizations you have monitoring shit in and outside of the country :lol: These agencies aren't exactly monitored by congress, regulated and ensured as law-abiding, and their budgets are shady to say the least

I think the US has something like 18 intelligence agencies... FBI, OICI, DIA, CIA, NRO, NSA, TFI, D&A... the list goes on :lol:

If anything I'm anti-conspiracy theory and think believing the government is some evil-all-powerful-big-brother entity is for loonies who hide in bunkers... but holy crap that's a lot of groups watching that most people don't know exist. :-k

Do they really all care or strictly stick to whatever the House says about the patriot act anyways?

I dono what my point is... it's just interesting, and unnerving.
(I'm a radical anti-labelist)

Very good point :lol2:
The reason I never liked that thing is because it makes the citizens act like paranoid crackheads... Turn each other in for stupid crap

RBP
02-15-2011, 12:27 PM
The U.S. House agreed yesterday to extend the government’s authority to conduct roving wiretaps of suspected terrorists, reversing a setback last week for Speaker John Boehner.

The House voted 275-144 to continue, into early December, the wiretap power as well as government’s ability to get access to suspected terrorists’ business and other records, and to monitor so-called “lone wolf” suspects.

The provisions are set to expire Feb. 28; the House bill extends them to Dec. 8. The Senate has yet to act.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-02-15/u-s-house-passes-measure-extending-authority-for-terrorism-surveillance.html