Why men won't marry you

[RBP]

By Suzanne Venker

Where have all the husbands gone?

That’s a question Peter Lloyd tackles in a series in London’s Daily Mail about Britain’s marriage rate, which is at its lowest level since 1895. “The state of matrimony is not just ailing. It is dying out faster than a mobile phone battery,” Lloyd writes. “For an army of women, Mr. Right is simply not there, no matter how hard they look for him.”

Things are no better this side of the Atlantic. According to Pew Research Center, the share of American adults who’ve never been married is at an historic high—and men are more likely than women to have never made it down the aisle (23% vs. 17% in 2012).

What gives? Why are men here and abroad avoiding the altar in spades?

1. Because they can: Men used to marry to have sex and a family. They married for love, too, but they had to marry the girl before taking her to bed, or at least work really, really hard to wear her down. Those days are gone.

When more women make themselves sexually available, the pool of marriageable men diminishes. “In a world where women do not say no, the man is never forced to settle down and make serious choices,” writes George Gilder, author of "Men and Marriage."

Scoff if you wish. Call me a fuddy-duddy. But how’s that new plan working out?

2. Because there’s nothing in it for them: What exactly does marriage offer men today? “Men know there’s a good chance they’ll lose their friends, their respect, their space, their sex life, their money and — if it all goes wrong — their family,” says Helen Smith, Ph.D., author of "Men on Strike." “They don’t want to enter into a legal contract with someone who could effectively take half their savings, pension and property when the honeymoon period is over.Men aren’t wimping out by staying unmarried or being commitment phobes. They’re being smart.”

Unlike women, men lose all power after they say “I do.” Their masculinity dies, too.

What’s left of it, that is. In the span of just a few decades, America has demoted men from respected providers and protectors of the family to superfluous buffoons. Today’s sitcoms andcommercials routinely paint a portrait of the idiot husband whose wife is smarter and more capable than he.

There was a time when wives respected their husbands. There was a time when wives took care of their husbands as they expected their husbands to take care of them.

Or perhaps therein lies the rub. If women no longer expect or even want men to “take care of” them — since women can do everything men can do and better, thank you very much, feminism — perhaps the flipside is the assumption that women don’t need to take care of husbands, either. And if no one’s taking care of anyone, why the hell marry?

For women, the reason is obvious: kids. Eventually most women decide they want children, no matter how long they put it off to focus on their careers. So they often nab the best guy they can find, usually the one with whom they’re currently sleeping, and convince him to get married.

If the man refuses, we call him, as Smith notes, a “commitment phobe.” But is that fair? Perhaps these men know all too well that women initiate the vast majority of divorces — anywhere from 65-90 percent, depending on demographics. And when they do, they take the kids with them and hang hubby out to dry with the help of a court system that’s heavily stacked in their favor. In the past, Mom got the kids because she was home with them doing the thankless, unpaid, mountainous work associated with that role. Today, neither parent is home, so there’s no reason the default custodial parent should be Mom.

So remind me, why would a man marry today?

No, really. What’s in it for him?

[deebakes]

there's really no upside :lol:

[Loser]

Never getting married...

[Oofty Goofty]

Never married, never divorced!

[DemonGeminiX]

Never getting married...

After seeing what several men in my family (including my brother) and what a few friends have gone through, I'm in that boat too.

And I totally agree with the article: What would be the point when there's nothing in it for me?

[allsmiles]

Some people just aren't cut out for marriage, and that's ok. To each, his own.

I disagree that it's "obvious" that women marry for children. everyone has their reasons for getting married. Some men marry for children. Some people marry for companionship, some for money, some are genuinely in love, some marry to shut their family up or for religious reasons. Everyone has their reasons to get married or not. It is a personal choice.

I feel like marriage rates have gone down because people now days are in general more selfish and lack respect and are too damn lazy to try and make a marriage work. That and because we are so much more hateful and hurtful and self-serving as a whole. No one wants to be ignored or mistreated, but at the same time, we are unwilling to put forth some effort ourselves and meet in the middle. We want to be happy, and we want our partner to be happy, but neither are willing to make the effort. So why bother? Many people are realizing this and so they just say, "Screw it. I'll just be alone. It's less hassle."

I think we are also scared because of all of the horror stories about shitty marriages that surround us. How many sitcoms out there portray a bitch wife who nags her husband about the same shit and kicks him out of the bedroom and makes him sleep on the couch and withholds sex etc.? Hollywood puts a comedic spin on it all, but it still blows me away how common it is to see a wife belittle, disrespect and patronize her husband while he just tucks his tail between his legs and takes it. How is this funny? No wonder people don't want to get married.

Not every woman is a disrespectful bitch who will take your kids and run. Not every man is a selfish, sex-crazed bastard. I know it sounds cliche, but I feel like marriage can be wonderful if it is with the right person. If you happen to find the person who meets your needs and you meet theirs and if both parties are equally serving and respectful of one another, then there is no reason why two people can't enjoy a happy marriage.

However, as I said before, some people just aren't cut out for marriage, and that's fine. Those folks would be better off talking half their shit and half their money and setting it on fire. The end result is the same, but without all of the heartache.

[Hugh_Janus]

prenup, motherfuckers.... aint no skank taking all my paper :nono:

not that I've found anyone stupid enough to put up with me long enough to get married :lol:

[RBP]

Some people just aren't cut out for marriage, and that's ok. To each, his own.

I disagree that it's "obvious" that women marry for children. everyone has their reasons for getting married. Some men marry for children. Some people marry for companionship, some for money, some are genuinely in love, some marry to shut their family up or for religious reasons. Everyone has their reasons to get married or not. It is a personal choice.

I feel like marriage rates have gone down because people now days are in general more selfish and lack respect and are too damn lazy to try and make a marriage work. That and because we are so much more hateful and hurtful and self-serving as a whole. No one wants to be ignored or mistreated, but at the same time, we are unwilling to put forth some effort ourselves and meet in the middle. We want to be happy, and we want our partner to be happy, but neither are willing to make the effort. So why bother? Many people are realizing this and so they just say, "Screw it. I'll just be alone. It's less hassle."

I think we are also scared because of all of the horror stories about shitty marriages that surround us. How many sitcoms out there portray a bitch wife who nags her husband about the same shit and kicks him out of the bedroom and makes him sleep on the couch and withholds sex etc.? Hollywood puts a comedic spin on it all, but it still blows me away how common it is to see a wife belittle, disrespect and patronize her husband while he just tucks his tail between his legs and takes it. How is this funny? No wonder people don't want to get married.

Not every woman is a disrespectful bitch who will take your kids and run. Not every man is a selfish, sex-crazed bastard. I know it sounds cliche, but I feel like marriage can be wonderful if it is with the right person. If you happen to find the person who meets your needs and you meet theirs and if both parties are equally serving and respectful of one another, then there is no reason why two people can't enjoy a happy marriage.

However, as I said before, some people just aren't cut out for marriage, and that's fine. Those folks would be better off talking half their shit and half their money and setting it on fire. The end result is the same, but without all of the heartache.

Well said, and I do not disagree with you. At the same time, I recognize that gender roles have become completely muddled with a large voice (primarily female) saying that there should be no gender roles at all. While in theory that may sound good, it's confusing as hell, especially to men. We don't know how to act, what will be offensive, what the expectations are. And the messed up thing is a lot of women still want more traditional roles. I am not talking about "your place in the kitchen" bullshit, I am talking about a man being a man. I would suspect that is less an issue in Texas than in more liberal parts of the country, but it's a national identity crisis for men.

And what have we done to boys in the process? We've made them timid and weak, we've made them less likely to succeed in school, less likely to go to college, more introverted. I had a conversation with my high school aged niece and nephew. They told something that stunned me. When I was growing up, guys got in fist fights as a normal way to settle things. Not saying that was great, but that's how it was. They both without hesitation said it is not the guys who fight, IT'S THE GIRLS. They guys don't get in fist fights, they said, they talk it out. The girls get physical. What? Really? I made them repeat it to make sure I was hearing it right. Complete role reversal.

For a lot of guys, it's not that they are more selfish, it is, as you mentioned, just less hassle to not even deal with the bullshit. Couple that with a generation growing up behind screens where they have developed very little social skill, and you have a recipe for disaster.

But the OP is right in regards to sexual norms. One of the base arguments of feminism has been the "slut v stud" argument. I still here it, but now it's become "stop slut shaming". Here's the problem, which for those who have paid attention (nobody probably) I have said repeatedly. They fucked up on that one. Somehow, feminists looked at the slut v stud issue and applied the "treat everyone equally" standard. Hmmmm.... They had an opportunity to say that women can take the lead and raise the sexual mores of everyone by demanding that the men bring the standard closer to THEM. But that's not what they did. They lowered the bar to the lowest common denominator in the name of equality. They had the power! There were the sexual arbiter of they chose to be! They could have raised the bar! Instead, they gave away the power; now no sexual arbiter exists. Again, I do not discount technology. If there is even the slightest issue, it's easier to get out the phone and swipe right on Tinder (I think, I have never used it) for a new piece of ass (male or female). That one trouble also? She doesn't swallow or take it in the ass? His cock is too small? *swipe* And by the way, you talk about male expectations being fucked up by porn... right. They haven't created any unrealistic cock or performance expectations of men. No, not at all. Just look at the number of women who demand a "big cock". I am just saying it cuts both ways.

The expectations are too high, the options are too easy, and the attention span is non-existent.

Lastly I will agree to disagree that when it comes down to the divorce there are more agreeable amicable women than not. I don't believe that's true. They know that can get the kids and pretty much anything else they want. Custody battles are riddled with lies. Hell, we have a President who is there because of lies told in custody battle.

[RBP]

I might add that dating has flipped for all the reasons stated above. It's fuck first and then, if the sex is satisfying, date later. It's backwards and feeds into the same problem.

[FBD]

when it dont cost too much to go bring your girl out to dinner or off to the mountains for a long weekend...

that automatically makes things easier and tensions arent heightened merely because of that.

there is a very high correlation between money problems and relationship problems.

thanks again, banksters :willie:





I think to the extent there's "obviousness" its that women look to get married for safety and security exponentially moreso than men.

Eddie Murphy kinda had this one right, find someone a similar level of fucked up as you are :lol: people gotta be able to operate on the same wavelength. today vs old, its like old star wars vs new. the old one had character development, an evolving story...whereas the preponderance of the new shite was ok let's cut through this boring dialogue and get to the action scenes! Which is kinda the same way with sex, if you're not picky about a partner, then you're mixing more than spit with someone you really may not want to be with at all. For some people, its worth it just to get laid. Well wait a minute, are we talking about marriage here, or just fucking? :lol: and even part of it, is the just fucking part, but that requires too much more typing.

[Hal-9000]

I've known girls throughout my entire life that had to be in relationships. They were different people when they were single and never spent more than a few days or weeks being alone.

Same girls usually married early and some of them married often. I can't guess the reasons behind the behavior as most seemed capable, intelligent, independent women in terms of jobs and/or living arrangements. Most of them I would classify as Alpha-females, rather than needy wallflowers.

I've know a few men like that as well. They just seem uncomfortable or incomplete unless they're dating, living with or marrying someone :lol:


As for the reasons men are backing out marriage now, that's easy. We have no idea what the rules are to being a man or a woman these days, so why try to navigate the rough current without paddles just to get divorced or to become unhappy?

[allsmiles]

Well said, and I do not disagree with you. At the same time, I recognize that gender roles have become completely muddled with a large voice (primarily female) saying that there should be no gender roles at all. While in theory that may sound good, it's confusing as hell, especially to men. We don't know how to act, what will be offensive, what the expectations are. And the messed up thing is a lot of women still want more traditional roles. I am not talking about "your place in the kitchen" bullshit, I am talking about a man being a man. I would suspect that is less an issue in Texas than in more liberal parts of the country, but it's a national identity crisis for men.

And what have we done to boys in the process? We've made them timid and weak, we've made them less likely to succeed in school, less likely to go to college, more introverted. I had a conversation with my high school aged niece and nephew. They told something that stunned me. When I was growing up, guys got in fist fights as a normal way to settle things. Not saying that was great, but that's how it was. They both without hesitation said it is not the guys who fight, IT'S THE GIRLS. They guys don't get in fist fights, they said, they talk it out. The girls get physical. What? Really? I made them repeat it to make sure I was hearing it right. Complete role reversal.

For a lot of guys, it's not that they are more selfish, it is, as you mentioned, just less hassle to not even deal with the bullshit. Couple that with a generation growing up behind screens where they have developed very little social skill, and you have a recipe for disaster.

But the OP is right in regards to sexual norms. One of the base arguments of feminism has been the "slut v stud" argument. I still here it, but now it's become "stop slut shaming". Here's the problem, which for those who have paid attention (nobody probably) I have said repeatedly. They fucked up on that one. Somehow, feminists looked at the slut v stud issue and applied the "treat everyone equally" standard. Hmmmm.... They had an opportunity to say that women can take the lead and raise the sexual mores of everyone by demanding that the men bring the standard closer to THEM. But that's not what they did. They lowered the bar to the lowest common denominator in the name of equality. They had the power! There were the sexual arbiter of they chose to be! They could have raised the bar! Instead, they gave away the power; now no sexual arbiter exists. Again, I do not discount technology. If there is even the slightest issue, it's easier to get out the phone and swipe right on Tinder (I think, I have never used it) for a new piece of ass (male or female). That one trouble also? She doesn't swallow or take it in the ass? His cock is too small? *swipe* And by the way, you talk about male expectations being fucked up by porn... right. They haven't created any unrealistic cock or performance expectations of men. No, not at all. Just look at the number of women who demand a "big cock". I am just saying it cuts both ways.

The expectations are too high, the options are too easy, and the attention span is non-existent.

Lastly I will agree to disagree that when it comes down to the divorce there are more agreeable amicable women than not. I don't believe that's true. They know that can get the kids and pretty much anything else they want. Custody battles are riddled with lies. Hell, we have a President who is there because of lies told in custody battle.

I completely agree with you in that men don't know what to do because some women, like myself, are old fashioned, while others want to wear the pants. Men don't know which side is up. Will she get mad at him if he opens her car door, because she is perfectly capable of doing it herself? Or will she think he's an asshole because he didn't offer to open her door for her? I'm so glad I'm not a man. As a woman, I'm not saying it is right or wrong to feel either way, independent or old fashioned. I do, however, feel like it is our job to VERBALLY MAKE IT KNOWN how we feel as those types of situations present themselves and to not immediately snap at a man for not being able to read our minds. Too many women punish men for not being mind readers.

On the matter of divorce. I didn't say that I disagreed with the statement that men are afraid to marry because it's too common for women to snatch up his kids and run. I do agree that this happens too often. When I used to work in an attorney's office, I saw too many cases like this. The thing that pissed me off to no end was when a woman accused her husband of being sexually inappropriate with her children, just to get custody. That happened way too often and I just wanted to punch those bitches in their whore faces. I was just saying that not ALL women want to take your kids and run. However, these days, as I mentioned above, people are more selfish, hateful and self serving (both sexes, if I wasn't clear before) so there are more people in the mind frame that they don't give a shit about the husband or the kids and they will use the kids to hurt the dad because they only care about themselves. I can understand why men are afraid to marry because they fear this happening. I am not saying that more women are agreeable and amicable than are not. I feel the opposite. I am just saying that not every woman is like this and the ones that are make the good ones look bad.

When it comes to sex. Both sexes have guilty parties who want the perfect body and the perfect sex life. While I can admire a six pack or a huge cock for what they are, it is not a requirement for a partner. It isn't even a desire. When I see a physically buff man or woman, I think, "Damn! Good for them. They work hard to take care of themselves," and I can admire that for what it is. However, that is not reality. I like a man with a little squish and who is not obsessed with the size of their penis, big or small. I know it is difficult for a man to not be afraid of what women might think of his penis, just like a woman is afraid of what a man or woman might think of her body. This fear comes from too many selfish people saying they only want a woman with a perfect body, or only want a man with a huge cock and who can last all night. On that note. Seriously... whoever says they want a man to last all night is full of shit. Things start getting sore and chaffing and you get tired. Too much of a good thing can be bad. Give me a few minutes of some intense fucking and then go on about your day. I have shit to do. I enjoy sex like I enjoy fruit. Eat a piece or two and its awesome. Eat a basket full and you end up with a tummy ache and explosive shits for days. However, due to too many women not only saying they want a man who can last for hours, but making fun of a man who does not, gives a man a complex.

As I said before, I feel like the reason marriage rates have gone down is because the majority of people have high expectations in a partner, but because people in general have become more self-serving and lazy and seek instant gratification, they are unwilling to put forth the effort themselves, which is what I think the author was generally trying to say. Too often, both people expect their partners to take care of them, but neither one wants to do the work. So instead of 2 people meeting halfway and taking care of each other, you have just two separate, selfish beings. For people like that, no, marriage is not a good idea. I was just trying to say that not all people are like that, and if you find yourself to be one of those people who are willing to put forth the effort to take care of your partner, but you are afraid to marry just because you are afraid that your partner will not reciprocate, then I say to not give up on the idea of marriage completely. If you can find one of the good ones (which are becoming more rare by the minute) then there is no reason why you can't have a happy marriage.

[RBP]

Well said, Allsmiles. :)

[Hal-9000]

I said the same thing, less words [-(


We have no idea what the rules are to being a man or a woman these days..

[allsmiles]

You did a great job, Hal. *hands a cookie* :hug:

[Lambchop]

Loads of men want to marry me. I'm just not into sausage.

[Hugh_Janus]

Loads of men want to marry me. I'm just not into sausage.

:sad2:

[RBP]

You did a great job, Hal. *hands a cookie* :hug:

Upon reflection.... just out of curiosity... if we know that almost all men are anxious about penis size...

Have you ever once heard men with penis concerns described as body dysmorphic? No? Why is that?

[KevinD]

Some good discussion in here. I've been married going on 19 years now. Has it all been fun and games? Hell no. Like allsmiles said, relationships (especially marriage ) is work. Overall though, I wouldn't trade my wife or my marriage for anything.
Oh, and as for rules for being a man, I guess I'm fortunate that I had strong men for role models when I was young; my father, grandfather and uncle. Feminazies would call me a male chauvinist pig, and I'd basically have to agree. My wife runs the household, but I have final say in everything. As I'm fond of reminding my daughter's, this family ain't a democracy.

[FBD]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9GXPd0fnpKw

[FBD]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o70wMlJO3ck

[allsmiles]

Upon reflection.... just out of curiosity... if we know that almost all men are anxious about penis size...

Have you ever once heard men with penis concerns described as body dysmorphic? No? Why is that?

I have not and I really don't know why. Maybe because I've never met a guy who has been so obsessively insecure about his junk to the point where he won't show it to me.
The desire to get laid/sucked off > the insecurity. In my experience anyway.


Some good discussion in here. I've been married going on 19 years now. Has it all been fun and games? Hell no. Like allsmiles said, relationships (especially marriage ) is work. Overall though, I wouldn't trade my wife or my marriage for anything.
Oh, and as for rules for being a man, I guess I'm fortunate that I had strong men for role models when I was young; my father, grandfather and uncle. Feminazies would call me a male chauvinist pig, and I'd basically have to agree. My wife runs the household, but I have final say in everything. As I'm fond of reminding my daughter's, this family ain't a democracy.

Good for you Kev. Happy to hear some positive words about marriage. Mine sounds similar to yours. We both work the same exact hours per week, but my first responsibility is the house. I do all of the cooking and cleaning and grocery shopping. His job is to take out the trash once a week and take care of the lawn (except for my flower beds). Working, for me, is a privilege. As long as I can handle keeping the house in order while working (and while keeping him happy in the bedroom), then I can continue to work. This is my rule for myself, not his, but he is happy with the arrangement. We are old fashioned. That doesn't, however, make him a chauvinist, nor does it make you one, Kevin. People just have different views, and if both parties are happy and comfortable with their roles, whatever they may be, then I believe the marriage is healthy.

[RBP]

Good for you Kev. Happy to hear some positive words about marriage. Mine sounds similar to yours. We both work the same exact hours per week, but my first responsibility is the house. I do all of the cooking and cleaning and grocery shopping. His job is to take out the trash once a week and take care of the lawn (except for my flower beds). Working, for me, is a privilege. As long as I can handle keeping the house in order while working (and while keeping him happy in the bedroom), then I can continue to work. This is my rule for myself, not his, but he is happy with the arrangement. We are old fashioned. That doesn't, however, make him a chauvinist, nor does it make you one, Kevin. People just have different views, and if both parties are happy and comfortable with their roles, whatever they may be, then I believe the marriage is healthy.


Wait, back up. You got married? :shock:

[deebakes]

:sad2:

[DemonGeminiX]

Wait, back up. You got married? :shock:

I second that. Married?

:-s

[allsmiles]

Yup. 6 weeks ago.

[deebakes]

congrats! does the dude know how lucky he is yet? :-k

[allsmiles]

congrats! does the dude know how lucky he is yet? :-k

Thanks! I'm pretty lucky to have him.

[RBP]

Yup. 6 weeks ago.

:faint:

Wow. Congratulations!

[DemonGeminiX]

Congratulations, Smiles.

[FBD]

always nice to see happy folks, hope the honeymoon lasts a long, long time :thumbsup:

[allsmiles]

Thanks. Me too. We've been friends for 12 years. That helps.

[Muddy]

Wow...! I thought.. nevermind.. :)

[FBD]

:lol: maybe in your case :lol: 'friends' dont mean shit....but wait a minute, you're not a crazy bitch, it seems, so....yeah :dance: