Active shooter in San Bernandino

[Muddy]

San Bernardino shooting live updates: Multiple victims confirmed by police, building not secured


<time itemprop="datePublished" class="trb_article_dateline_time" data-datetime-month="December" data-datetime-day="2" data-datetime-year="2015" data-datetime-clock="12:25 PM" datetime="2015-12-02T12:25:11PST"></time>
What we know



San Bernardino County Sheriff’s Department confirmed an active shooter in the area of Orange Show Road and Waterman Avenue.
There were multiple victims, the sheriff's department reported.
Police said there are one to three suspects, who were heavily armed and possibly wearing body armor.
Officers have not secured the building.
FBI and ATF teams are on the scene.

[Goofy]

Fixed the title for you mate. Any word on who the cunts are? ISIS cuntfucks? :|

[Goofy]

Emergency crews responded Wednesday to reports of a shooting with multiple victims in San Bernardino, Calif., the city’s fire and police departments reported.

The Fire Department posted on Twitter that there were reports of as many as 20 victims.

The city Police Department confirmed that it was handling an “active shooter” incident, but declined to say more. The San Bernardino County Sheriff’s Department said the police had reports of one to three suspects, and of multiple victims. Law enforcement officers speaking on their radio frequencies said there appeared to be multiple fatalities, and mentioned a suspicious object that they feared could be an explosive.

About half an hour after the incident began, an officer radioed, “They just found another room with more victims.”

Ambulance crews treated wounded people in the middle of Waterman Avenue, a major north-south street through the city, which lies about an hour’s drive east of Los Angeles.

The attack was believed to have taken place in a cluster of office buildings that include the offices of Inland Regional Services, which offers services to individuals with developmental disabilities. Dozens of people fled from the building and were being herded by the police across Waterman, onto the golf course of the San Bernardino Golf Club.

The police were searching those buildings and leading survivors out. Relatives rushed to the scene, saying they had gotten text messages from loved ones in the buildings during the attack.

[PorkChopSandwiches]

Right in my area :dance:

[Goofy]

San Bernardino police believe the suspect or suspects are well armed and possibly wearing body armor, a spokesperson has told the LA Times, in line with accounts heard by local reporters.

Sergeant Vicky Cervantes told reporters that officers are going door to door. “It’s a very active scene,” she said. “It’s very fluid.”

Araksya Karapetyan of the local Fox affiliate has heard similar accounts.

[Goofy]

Right in my area :dance:

Get down there and nail the fuckers Porky :ok: :pewpew:

[Goofy]

How far away from it are you Porky?

[PorkChopSandwiches]

Probably 20 min

[Muddy]

12 dead, 20 injured so far.. It's a center that helps people with developmental disabilities.. like Autism

[Goofy]

12 dead, 20 injured so far.. It's a center that helps people with developmental disabilities.. like Autism

Jeez :wha:

[Muddy]

There's some fucked up people out there these days...

[redred]

Another American ruining it for the others by exercising their right to own guns ?

[DemonGeminiX]

In California, where the state gun laws are supposedly really strict, some of the strictest in the nation.

[Hal-9000]

saw that address and thought of Porky...not sure how I knew that :|

[Hal-9000]

Right in my area :dance:

Yay, you're okay :thumbsup:

Stay inside, don't be a hero and ffs turn off the Call of Duty games in the house

[PorkChopSandwiches]

In California, where the state gun laws are supposedly really strict, some of the strictest in the nation.

Yeah, we all know how gun free zones work.

[PorkChopSandwiches]

Yay, you're okay :thumbsup:

Stay inside, don't be a hero and ffs turn off the Call of Duty games in the house

Shit, I'm not trying to hunt people down.....yet lol

[DemonGeminiX]

They got 2 of them, Porky? One dead, one alive? They're looking for a third or more?

[PorkChopSandwiches]

:tup:

[Godfather]

Shooting is at a facility that supports and helps 31,000 individuals with developmental disabilities a day. Sick mother fuckers. Damn.

[DemonGeminiX]

Woah! Fox news is throwing around the possibility that this is terror related.

:shock:

[DemonGeminiX]

2 suspects dead: 1 male, 1 female.

[DemonGeminiX]

Police are not absolutely certain, but are not ruling out the possibility that it's terrorism. They are not sure yet, but it is possible.

[deebakes]

developmental disabilities and california :(

first thing people around here are worried about is porky :lol:

[Godfather]

Police are not absolutely certain, but are not ruling out the possibility that it's terrorism. They are not sure yet, but it is possible.

Seems like such an unusual target for terrorism. If that's the case has anyone speculated on their reasoning?

[RBP]

Seems like such an unusual target for terrorism. If that's the case has anyone speculated on their reasoning?

Ultra soft targets have always been an expressed concern.

Anyone else watch this and think "they are gauging the response"? Soft target, exit timed perfectly to expected police response times, then a fumbled escape that invited police action. Nothing is adding up here.

[RBP]

2 suspects dead: 1 male, 1 female.

The female piece throws me off too.

[DemonGeminiX]

Not yet. I'm sure the rigorous investigation will soon unveil the motive.


However, the main deceased suspect has been identified as an American male citizen by the name of Syed Farook, and a reporter has gotten in touch with his father, who has stated that his now deceased son was a devoutly religious Muslim. His father said that his son worked as a health inspector for restaurants.

Apparently the victims were at a training conference for a California health department. What's weird about this, is that if it's terrorism, why just attack one group of people in a conference room in a building, and ignore almost everybody else? It looks like terrorism based on the personal facts of the main assailant, but then again it looks like workplace violence based on the employment, the act, and the victims. Yet, the FBI will not rule out terrorism.

Tactical gear, the house may be booby trapped, the car may be booby trapped... it can't just be workplace violence.

[RBP]

The FBI expressly ruled out workplace violence early on from reports I heard.

[RBP]

Not yet. I'm sure the rigorous investigation will soon unveil the motive.


However, the main deceased suspect has been identified as an American male citizen by the name of Syed Farook, and a reporter has gotten in touch with his father, who has stated that his now deceased son was a devoutly religious Muslim. His father said that his son worked as a health inspector for restaurants.

Apparently the victims were at a training conference for a California health department. What's weird about this, is that if it's terrorism, why just attack one group of people in a conference room in a building, and ignore almost everybody else? It looks like terrorism based on the personal facts of the main assailant, but then again it looks like workplace violence based on the employment, the act, and the victims. Yet, the FBI will not rule out terrorism.

Tactical gear, the house may be booby trapped, the car may be booby trapped... it can't just be workplace violence.

The only thing that fits for me is a test run.

[DemonGeminiX]

Just waiting for a trigger.

[RBP]

Just waiting for a trigger.

http://i.imgur.com/Ez2rBOa.gif

[PorkChopSandwiches]

Anything to scare the public

[RBP]

CAIR held a press conference. Question answered.

[redred]

developmental disabilities and california :(

first thing people around here are worried about is porky :lol:
But he's special to us

[Goofy]

So......... a muslim......... well theres a massive shock :|

[Jezter]

Well if this isn't one of the most fucked up targets ever... for fucks sake! This world goes more and more mad each day. I just am waiting for the day when some shit goes down here too... It is bound to happen sooner or later. :(

[redred]

So......... a muslim......... well theres a massive shock :|
Born and brought up in the USA

[Goofy]

Born and brought up in the USA

So, do we consider this couple to have committed this cowardly scumbag act because they were American........ or because they're islamic whackjobs? Answers on a postcard :)

[Teh One Who Knocks]

Born and brought up in the USA

What the fuck does that have to do with anything?

[Teh One Who Knocks]

FOX News and The Associated Press


A Southern California county government employee and his wife killed 14 people and wounded 17 others at a San Bernardino office building in a precision assault Wednesday morning before they were killed in a shootout with police in the afternoon.

San Bernardino Police Chief Jarrod Burguan identified the shooting suspects as Syed Rizwan Farook, 28, and Tashfeen Malik, 27. Burguan said that Farook was born in the U.S. and had worked at the San Bernardino County Department of Public Health for five years. Malik's nationality was not identified. Family members told the Associated Press the couple were married.

Law enforcement officials said late Wednesday they could not rule out terrorism as a possible motive. The FBI's Joint Terrorism Task Force was aiding in the investigation.

A law enforcement source told Fox News that the couple were each carrying an AR-15 rifle and and a pistol when they were shot and killed by police after a brief chase in their black SUV about 2 miles from the initial shooting site. The source said the vehicle also contained so-called "rollout bags" with multiple pipe bombs, as well as additional ammunition. The couple also had GoPro cameras strapped to their body armor and wore tactical clothing, including vests stuffed with ammunition magazines.

"That's a military tactic for a sustained fight," the source told Fox News of the rollout bags.

In addition to the explosives found at the SUV, authorities discovered and detonated three pipe bombs late Wednesday at the Inland Regional Center, the complex where the initial shooting took place about 60 miles east of Los Angeles.

Another source described a house in Redlands that was being searched in connection with the shooting as "an IED facility." The source said investigators discovered multiple pipe bombs in the house, as well as small explosives that were strapped to remote-controlled cars.

The initial shooting happened shortly before 11 a.m. PST at a conference area in a social services center for the disabled, where Farook's colleagues were holding a holiday banquet. Witnesses said the suspects were wearing body armor and masks and moved with grim precision. Gunfire sent people scrambling to hide under desks, barricade themselves in room or flee for their lives.

"They came prepared to do what they did, as if they were on a mission," Burguan, the police chief, said earlier Wednesday.

The chief said that Farook had angrily left the party before returning with Malik. However, other investigators doubted the alleged dispute had taken place or whether the shooting could solely be chalked up to a workplace dispute due to the apparent planning behind the attack as well as the heavy weaponry used.

Patrick Baccari, a co-worker of Farook who suffered minor wounds from shrapnel slicing through the building's bathroom walls, told the Associated Press he been sitting at the same table as Farook at the banquet before his colleague suddenly disappeared, leaving his coat on his chair.

Baccari also said that Farook had traveled to Saudi Arabia for about a month this past spring. When Farook came back, word spread that he had gotten married and the woman he described as a pharmacist joined him shortly afterward. The couple had a baby later this year. Baccari added that the reserved Farook showed no signs of unusual behavior, although he grew out his beard several months ago.

The couple dropped off their 6-month-old daughter with relatives Wednesday morning, saying they had a doctor's appointment, Hussam Ayloush, executive director of the Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR), said after talking with family. Farhan Khan, who is married to Farook's sister, told reporters he last spoke to his brother-in-law about a week ago. He said he was in shock, condemned the violence, and had "absolutely no idea why he would do this."

FBI spokesman David Bowdich acknowledged that "adjustments" had been made in the investigation with an eye on the possibility terrorism was involved.

"It's a possibility, but we are not willing to go down that road yet," Bowdich said.

About four hours after the shooting, with police looking for a dark SUV, officers staking out the Redlands home saw a vehicle matching that description. Authorities pursued the SUV, and a gun battle broke out around 3 p.m., authorities said. One officer suffered a minor injury.

The aftermath of the shootout was captured live by television news helicopters.

It was unclear where the suspects may have been during the nearly four hours following the lightning-quick attack, but they did not get far. A police spokeswoman said police came across the SUV while "doing follow-up work," and several reports said the car was at a nearby home police were staking out when the suspects got in and tried to flee. It was not immediately clear if that home was the one searched later in Redlands.

Word that police were hot on their trail came even as emergency responders were treating the wounded on the scene, and sparked a flurry of law enforcement racing to the scene just blocks away. The gunfight, caught on cellphone video by a bystander, was a furious exchange of bullets in which a passenger in the SUV blasted at police through the shattered rear windshield before the vehicle was disabled in a hail of return fire.

Center employees, who undergo monthly training drills to prepare for active shooter situations, initially thought the incident was a drill, according to the Los Angeles Times. But when real bullets flew, several hid in closets, barricaded themselves in rooms or fled for their lives.

The Inland Regional Center is one of 21 facilities serving people with developmental disabilities run by the state, said Nancy Lungren, spokeswoman for the California Department of Developmental Services. The social services agency administers, authorizes and pays for assistance to people with disabilities such as autism and mental retardation. On an average day, doctors at the regional centers would be evaluating toddlers whose parents have concerns and case workers meeting with developmentally disabled adults.

The San Bernardino facility consists of three buildings, and employs approximately 600 workers. Inland Regional Center Executive Director Lavinia Johnson told Reuters the shooting happened at a conference center her group rented out for a San Bernardino Health Department county personnel holiday party.

Glenn Willwerth, who was near enough to the scene to hear shots being fired, told Fox News after the massacre that he saw a black SUV that matched the description of the one in the subsequent shootout leaving afterward, driving slowly and deliberately. He later told Fox News' Greta Van Susteren that vehicle was "identical" to the one involved in the shootout.

Witnesses described passing bodies on the ground as they fled, and a makeshift triage center was set up outside the facility. A local NBC videographer reported there were not enough ambulances to transport victims, and that people were using pickup trucks to carry victims to triage areas. Hours later, busloads of employees from the center were taken to a nearby church where authorities planned to interview them.

At nearby Loma Linda Medical Center, a spokeswoman said the hospital was treating five adult patients, two of whom were in critical, but stable condition; two in fair condition and one still being assessed.

Other victims were being treated at Arrowhead Regional Medical Center, where Kathy Hotetz waited for information about her sister, Denise Peraza, 27, who was shot in the leg.

"She's alive. That's all I know," said Hotetz, 37. "Not knowing any more than that is the scariest part."

Kevin Ortiz, 24, was shot twice in the leg and once in the shoulder during the attack, but managed to call both his wife of two weeks and his father to tell them he was alive.

"Kevin said he had been shot three times and that he was in pain but he was alright," his wife, Dyana Ortiz, 23, said. " Then he said 'I love you' and I said 'I love you.'"

Wednesday's bloodshed was the nation's deadliest mass shooting since the attack at a school in Newtown, Connecticut, three years ago that left 26 children and adults dead.

President Obama was briefed on the situation by his Homeland Security Advisor Lisa Monaco and asked to be updated on the situation as it develops. In Washington, House Speaker Paul Ryan called for a moment of silence before that city's annual tree lighting.

[Goofy]

Sounds like it could have been a whole lot worse tbh :wha:

[Pony]

I've already seen a post on my facebook claiming this is "false flag". :gtfo:

[Teh One Who Knocks]

I've already seen a post on my facebook claiming this is "false flag". :gtfo:

You friends with FBD on Facebook? :-k

[Pony]

You friends with FBD on Facebook? :-k

No, apparently I have to reevaluate my friends list though.

[Teh One Who Knocks]

By Brian Ross, ALEX HOSENBALL, Rhonda Schwartz, and Matthew Mosk - ABC News


As police confirmed the identities of the deceased suspects in the San Bernardino shootings overnight, new information has come to light about the young couple said to have carried out the horrible crime, especially about the 28-year-old man who witnesses say sat side-by-side with his targets just minutes before the massacre.

Syed Rizwan Farook, who for years worked at the San Bernardino County Public Health Department whose personnel appear to have been the target of Wednesday's attack, left an online footprint mostly in the form of Muslim-oriented dating site profiles he and his parents created years ago. In one, Farook describes himself as a "health, safety and environmental inspector," says he's 6'0" tall and doesn't drink or smoke.

At that time the profile was made about six years ago, Farook claimed he was part of a “religios but modern family of 4” [sic] and that he enjoyed “doing target practice with younger sister and friends” in his back yard. He says he was born in Chicago, but in another profile indicated a Pakistani heritage.

Another profile portrayed a man trying to balance his faith and modern life.

“I try to live as a good Muslim,” Farook writes. “Looking for a girl who has the same outlook, wear hijab, but live the life to the fullest."

On the same page, Farook preaches his love of snowboarding, camping, and working on cars, and further describes his personality as cautious, reserved, skeptical and very liberal.

ABC News also found several profiles that appeared to belong to Farook posted by his parents, eager to find their son a bride.

One profile, which was registered “to find my son/daughter a partner” [sic] list Syed as “very religious,” “Athletic,” and wanting to marry within the next year. Another gave Farook’s address, and claimed he had a Masters in Engineering. Both profiles described the shooter as “calm cool and thoughtful”.

According to Farook's brother-in-law, Farhan Khan, Farook had recently found success in a relationship with a 27-year-old named Tashfeen Malik -- a woman police later said was his accomplice in the deadly shooting. The brother-in-law said the two were married, but overnight police said they weren't totally clear on the couple's marital status, except that there was a relationship. While police said Farook was born in the U.S., they said they do not know where Malik was from and the investigation is ongoing.

The young couple had a baby, but the day of the shooting, they left it with a family member and told the relative that they had doctor appointments, Hussam Ayloush, the executive director of the Muslim rights group CAIR, told ABC News. CAIR officials appeared with Khan when he made his emotional announcement late Wednesday.

A witness to Wednesday's shooting, local official Chris Nwadike, told ABC News Wednesday that he happened to be sitting at the same table as Farook earlier that day at the gathering at the Inland Regional Center. Farook left the meeting and disappeared for about half an hour, before apparently showing back up with Malik and several powerful weapons.

"When I heard that name pop up, I couldn't believe it," Nwadike said of Farook. Nwadike happened to have gone to the bathroom when the shooting started.

Khan told reporters late Wednesday he didn't understand why his brother-in-law would do it.

"I have no idea... why he would do something like this," a visibly shocked Khan said. "I just cannot express how sad I am for what happened today."

Police said they have not determined a motive for Wednesday's shooting.

[Muddy]

They had recently returned from Saudi Arabia. Maybe they wanted to be more true to their terrorist roots?

[Muddy]

Neighbors in Redlands were shocked that the suspects had ties to their area.
“I was in awe that it was happening four houses down from my property,” one neighbor said.
A man who has been working in the area said he noticed a half-dozen Middle Eastern men in the area in recent weeks, but decided not to report anything since he did not wish to racially profile those people.

“We sat around lunch thinking, ‘What were they doing around the neighborhood?'” he said. “We’d see them leave where they’re raiding the apartment.”

[Teh One Who Knocks]

by F. Brinley Bruton - NBC News


Islamic community leaders reacted with shock and grief after a Muslim couple apparently embarked on a deadly shooting rampage at a community center for people with developmental disabilities.

The Council on American-Islamic Relations — a nationwide advocacy organization — condemned the "horrific and revolting attack" in San Bernardino, California, and offered "heartfelt condolences" to families of the victims.

"The Muslim community stands shoulder to shoulder with our fellow Americans in repudiating any twisted mindset that would claim to justify such sickening acts of violence," Hussam Ayloush, the executive director of CAIR for the Los Angeles area, said in a statement.

Ayloush reacted within hours of the shooting at a Christmas party at a state-run center that killed 14. The alleged attackers, American-born Syed Rizwan Farook, 28, and wife Tashfeen Malik, 27, later died after police checking a lead in the nearby town of Redlands began chasing a vehicle believed to be related to the incident.

The Islamic Community Center of Redlands said in a statement it was "saddened and shocked by the recent shooting in San Bernardino ... and prays for the victims and their family members."

"The center and its members offer their deepest condolences to those affected by this tragedy and we stand with our fellow Americans in this difficult time," the statement said, adding that it was planning an interfaith candlelight vigil for the victims.

Federal officials told NBC News that a check of customs and border protection records shows that Farook recently traveled to Saudi Arabia but authorities believe at this point that trip was purely a religious one — likely for the hajj, the pilgrimage that devout Muslims are required to at one point in their lives."

Authorities would not rule out terrorism as a motive in the attack. Farook and Malik were wearing tactical gear and armed with assault-style rifles when they were killed, " San Bernardino Police Chief Jarrod Burguan told reporters Wednesday night, adding "there had to be some degree of planning."

Authorities also said an "explosive device" was found inside the building during a secondary sweep.

[PorkChopSandwiches]

Neighbors in Redlands were shocked that the suspects had ties to their area.
“I was in awe that it was happening four houses down from my property,” one neighbor said.
A man who has been working in the area said he noticed a half-dozen Middle Eastern men in the area in recent weeks, but decided not to report anything since he did not wish to racially profile those people.

“We sat around lunch thinking, ‘What were they doing around the neighborhood?'” he said. “We’d see them leave where they’re raiding the apartment.”

6 dudes and you think people will call the cops, if it was 6 black dudes and someone called the cops people would be outraged.

[fricnjay]

San Bernardino, Calif., officials have confirmed that the two rifles used by gunman Syed Rizwan Farook in Wednesday's massacre were purchased not by Farook himself, but rather by a friend. This means that at some point the rifles were either sold, stolen or given to Farook by his friend, sometime within the last three or four years.

According to California's firearms laws, it is "illegal for any person who is not a California licensed firearms dealer (private party) to sell or transfer a firearm to another non-licensed person (private party)." The prohibition on transfers - except those between family members- that do not involve a licensed gun deal Went into effect on January 1, 2011.

This means that unless, Farook's friend was an authorized weapons dealer in the state of California or the transfer occurred in another state, then the rifles were acquired illegally.

[Hal-9000]

The things that bother me over and above the killings are the go-pro cameras and the remote controlled model cars with bombs on them :|

And all of that tactical gear/bombs/weapons and the news outlets are still saying they don't know if it was an organized terrorist attack?

"there had to be some degree of planning." That wins the No Shit Sherlock Award....


And on a more personal note, as mentioned I've known a few devout Muslims through work and they abhorred guns. This guy was doing target practice in the backyard and had enough pride about it to list the activity on an online dating profile?? Something about that seems weird....does that skill really attract women/wives in the online Muslim world?

[deebakes]

But he's special to us

:rofl:

[RBP]

San Bernardino, Calif., officials have confirmed that the two rifles used by gunman Syed Rizwan Farook in Wednesday's massacre were purchased not by Farook himself, but rather by a friend. This means that at some point the rifles were either sold, stolen or given to Farook by his friend, sometime within the last three or four years.

According to California's firearms laws, it is "illegal for any person who is not a California licensed firearms dealer (private party) to sell or transfer a firearm to another non-licensed person (private party)." The prohibition on transfers - except those between family members- that do not involve a licensed gun deal Went into effect on January 1, 2011.

This means that unless, Farook's friend was an authorized weapons dealer in the state of California or the transfer occurred in another state, then the rifles were acquired illegally.

"straw purchase" I believe is the term.

But, wait, tougher gun laws didn't prevent this because the terrorists ignored it? What? That's crazy talk.

[fricnjay]

"straw purchase" I believe is the term.

But, wait, tougher gun laws didn't prevent this because the terrorists ignored it? What? That's crazy talk.

Amen, maybe if a law abiding citizen with a CHL was there this could have been stopped before it started.

[redred]

so has IS claimed this yet or could it be they went full bat shit crazy at there ex work place christmas party

[Teh One Who Knocks]

By Ben Brumfield and Greg Botelho, CNN


(CNN)Investigators think that as the San Bernardino, California, attack was happening, female shooter Tashfeen Malik posted a pledge of allegiance to ISIS leader Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi on Facebook, three U.S. officials familiar with the investigation told CNN.

Malik's post was made on an account with a different name, one U.S. official said. The officials did not explain how they knew Malik made the post.

A law enforcement official said it appeared that Wednesday's attack -- which left 14 people dead and 21 wounded before the two attackers, Malik and her husband, Syed Rizwan Farook, were killed in a shootout with police -- may have been inspired by ISIS. But none of the officials said that ISIS directed or ordered the attack.

"This is looking more and more like self-radicalization," a law enforcement official said.

Another official said authorities haven't ruled out that others may have influenced this radical view. In addition, the law enforcement source said investigators have a greater focus on whether the shooting occurred after a workplace issue with religion.

A lawyer for Farook's husband has said relatives have no idea why the couple burst into the holiday luncheon for Farook's co-workers and viciously opened fire. Nor did they have an idea the couple had a makeshift bomb lab in the apartment they shared with their 6-month-old daughter and Farook's mother. Nor did they know that either of them had become radicalized, as law enforcement officials have said.

"It just doesn't make sense for these two to be able to act like some kind of Bonnie and Clyde or something," Farook family attorney David S. Chesley told CNN's Chris Cuomo. "It's just ridiculous. It doesn't add up."

Farook occasionally went alone to shooting ranges, and he bought significant amounts of ammunition. But Chesley and fellow family lawyer Mohammad Abuershaid insisted those aren't red flags, nor are Farook's trips to Saudi Arabia -- first in 2013 for the Hajj, the annual pilgrimage to Mecca that Muslims are required to take at least once in their lifetime, then again to marry Malik, whom he'd met through an online dating service.

Farook and Malik "kept to themselves," Abuershaid said. But the interactions they did have didn't hint at any significant changes in their thinking or demeanor, any turn to Islamist extremism, or any sign they were plotting a mass killing, the lawyer said.

"There was nothing to show that (Malik) was extreme at all," Abuershaid said. "(And Farook) was a normal guy, in every sense of the word."

It's not that the family denies the couple carried out this massacre. They are shocked by it. And they're also "very remorseful and they're very sad."

But that doesn't mean they can explain it. And the shooters didn't make it easy for authorities either, given that the hard drive from their computer is gone, and two relatively new cell phones were found smashed in a garbage can near one of the crime scenes, law enforcement officials said.

Possible terror links

So far, officials have speculated that Farook's apparent radicalization may have been part of the reason. Part of it may have stemmed from workplace tensions. But they have declined to label this a terrorist attack.

"It would be irresponsible and premature for me to call this terrorism," FBI official David Bowdich said Thursday. "The FBI defines terrorism very specifically, and that is the big question for us: What is the motivation for this?"

Neither Farook nor his wife had gotten into trouble with the law. Neither was on any list of potentially radicalized people, and they had no clear ties to any overseas terrorist groups.

But investigators are exploring Farook's communications with at least one person who was being investigated for possible terror connections. Some were by phone, some on social media.

"These appear to be soft connections," an official said, meaning they were not frequent contacts. Farook's last communication with the contacts was months ago.

The FBI wants to interview some of them to learn more about their conversations with Farook.

A federal official said Farook has "overseas communications and associations," but it's not yet clear how relevant they are to the shootings. "We don't know yet what they mean," the official said.

Bowdich said that among other places, Farook had traveled to Pakistan, even though Abuershaid said "he never traveled to Pakistan."

The family lawyer says he thinks any focus on the shooters' Muslim faith is misplaced.

"(These) are isolated individuals (that) don't speak for the majority," he said. "The religion of Islam is a beautiful religion that would never ... agree with any type of killing like this. That is now what the religion is about: It is about peace, it is about love, it is about understanding. ...

"These aren't Muslim radicals. These aren't Muslims."

Was it a workplace dispute?

Could Farook's decision to attack the luncheon have stemmed from a religious dispute with a co-worker? His family lawyer's didn't speculate, though Chesley did say that "at some times co-workers have done silly things, like made fun of Syed's beard."

One of Farook's colleagues, Nicholas Thalasinos, liked to discuss religion and politics. He was one of the people killed in the Wednesday attack at Inland Regional Center.

Farook and Thalasinos, reportedly a devout Messianic Jew, once had a "heated, passionate" discussion, said Kuuleme Stephens, a friend of Thalasinos, who had called him at work.

The men were sticking by their strongly held positions but were not fighting, Stephens said.

Thalasinos' widow, Jennifer, said he was very verbal about terrorism. "He's very upset about what ISIS has been doing and the radicalized Muslims," she said.

Keeping quiet

Doyle Miller, Farook's landlord, said he had "no cause for concern" when he rented out a townhouse to him in Redlands.

"Everything checked out," Miller said. "He had good credit reports ... everything."

A religious leader who knew Farook described him as quiet.

"He's a little bit shy, a little bit withdrawn. He doesn't mix with people easily," said Mustafa Kuko, the director of the Islamic Center of Riverside where Farook was a regular until some time ago.

Farook's mother thought nothing of it when the couple asked her to watch the couple's 6-month-old girl while they went to a doctor's appointment, Abuershaid said. The lawyer didn't know if there ever was a doctor's appointment; only that the mother initially worried that Farook had gotten shot, not that he was doing the shooting.

The family -- who, Chesley said, has been "threatened and harassed" -- accepts the police account of what happened but still doesn't totally understand it. This includes the role of Malik, who her husband's relatives didn't know as well but didn't seem like someone who'd be involved in this.

"She's probably about 90 pounds, so it's unlikely she could even carry a weapon or wear some type of a vest or do any of this," Chesley said.

"There are a lot of things that just don't make sense."

Heartless killing

But the meek impression belied the heartless act Farook carried out with Malik.

First, at the luncheon, armed with .223-caliber long guns and with pistols, they fired 65 to 75 rounds, almost as many as there were people at the luncheon.

Later, in the shootout with police that killed them, they fired about the same number of rounds at officers. Two were injured in the gun battle.

In Farook's home, police found thousands of rounds of ammunition, 12 pipe bombs and hundreds of tools to make more explosives with.

The Farook family attorneys said that the possession of thousands of rounds of ammunition does not make someone a terrorist.

"When people have guns and they have ammo, a lot of times when they go shooting on firing ranges, they do waste a lot of ammo at these ranges," Abuershaid said.

But given the complete arsenal, police wondered if Farook and Malik were planning to kill many more and whether the luncheon was their original target. They say what they've found shows there was clear premeditation and planning.

[fricnjay]

This truly is a bizarre story. Its almost scary how little is know about the situation.

[RBP]

Sounding more to me like she was the terrorist and pulled him along.

[Pony]

In Farook's home, police found thousands of rounds of ammunition, 12 pipe bombs and hundreds of tools to make more explosives with.

The Farook family attorneys said that the possession of thousands of rounds of ammunition does not make someone a terrorist.

:banghead:

[PorkChopSandwiches]

Our neighbor's cousin was killed here :(

[Teh One Who Knocks]

:(

[DemonGeminiX]

My condolences to your neighbor's family, Porkster.

[Muddy]

Our neighbor's cousin was killed here :(

Starting to hit close to home.. What is this doing to your mind right now?

[PorkChopSandwiches]

Less than buring my dog, harder than I expected

[RBP]

Less than buring my dog, harder than I expected

Well stated.

[RBP]

The FBI has officially label it an act of terrorism.

[redred]

Makes it sound better :shrug:

[PorkChopSandwiches]

We better import some more quick, it will be fine