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View Full Version : Switzerland to vote on universal basic income in referendum on Sunday



lost in melb.
06-03-2016, 01:48 PM
http://cdn.newsapi.com.au/image/v1/352d4ada92e8cbba539607fdcf2aee90

WHAT would you do if your income were taken care of?”
The often-dreamt of prospect is being posed as a serious question to people in Switzerland this weekend, with the country set to vote on a universal basic income scheme that could see every citizen paid a wage by default.
The monthly payment — undecided as yet but slated to be around 2500 Swiss Francs or $3500 — would be paid to every citizen, for their whole life, no matter where they live.
Those with a job could still work but would have the monthly income deducted from their salary.
Basic Income Switzerland campaigners say the money is simply a human right and would bring people's income in line with the cost of living.
Instead, salaries would become a “symbol of appreciation” and people would be free to choose what they wanted to do rather than the drudgery they were forced to in order to pay the bills.
The group claims it would encourage innovation as there would be more demand for technology to do the “dirty work” in life. Authorities would save money the ease of making a standard payment rather than a complex myriad of subsidies.
“The basic income strengthens the trend to automate such tasks. It creates the possibility for innovation,” the campaign claims.
“It gives time for reflection and creates possibilities for experiences we cannot pay for.”

http://cdn.newsapi.com.au/image/v1/a6344f4578da9f55d13e29c94e271ba5

The controversial idea is almost certainly doomed to fail on Sunday when Swiss voters take to the polls on various issues as part of the country’s unique direct democracy system where campaigns that gain more than 100,000 signatures are put to voters.
Polls show more than 70 per cent of people including those in government and positions of authority are opposed to the idea which has been slammed as a “Marxist dream” that would see people quitting their jobs and living off the state in an unsustainable and expensive policy.
But for Che Wagner, the official spokesman of the campaign, this weekend’s vote is simply a first step in a process of raising awareness.
“It’s a long process,” he told news.com.au. “This is the first round but we’re really surprised how well it has gone....All the bigger political projects in the past have been declined once or twice.”

http://cdn.newsapi.com.au/image/v1/de6f2db8859e89b8568d89ef006f39fa
He said anything more than 20 to 25 per cent support for the idea would be “sensational”.
“Within seven to 15 years the basic income will be a reality here in Switzerland.”
Supporters have raised awareness by unveiling enormous banners across Geneva and Berlin posing the question: “What would you do if your income were taken care of?”
Former Greek finance minister Yanis Varofakis has also leant his support saying “think of basic income as a foundation, not a net. A floor on which to stand solidly and to be able to reach for the sky.”
But critics say it would lead to economic collapse as people quit their jobs and living costs rose to absorb the free money on offer.
Geneva Graduate Institute economics professor Charles Wyplosz told AFP: “If you pay people to do nothing, they will do nothing.”
The amount of the payment is not up for debate on Sunday, but authorities estimate the 25 billion francs needed to cover the amount of payment proposed would require huge spending cuts in what is already one of the world’s most expensive places to live.

For Mr Wagner, Sunday’s vote will mark the beginning of the next stage of a campaign that has already gained huge traction on social media.
“In the next two years the discussion goes on and we’re going to start collecting signatures again. I really think the basic income is a matter of time,” he said.
“Sooner or later it will break through.”
Fifty-five year old nurse Pascale Eberle said she would vote in favour to give her children and grandchildren a “different kind of life” but would continue to work regardless.
“I like my job, but I would work less and do other things on the side,” she told AFP.
The concept of universal income is gaining ground across Europe as technological advancements make some jobs obsolete. Finland and the Netherlands have pilot programs in the works and a recent poll found that nearly 70 per cent of people across member states would support the idea, The Guardian reports.
Sunday’s vote will also see Swiss citizens judge a plan to speed up the country’s asylum process, and decide whether to allow genetic screening of embryos.
— With AFP

FBD
06-03-2016, 02:06 PM
As I've said before, until we've got that star trek level of technology with free energy and food replication, idea like this are utterly fkn stupid.

what do people not understand about finite resources and the exponential curve?

end welfare - kill banksters.

lost in melb.
06-03-2016, 02:11 PM
As I've said before, until we've got that star trek level of technology with free energy and food replication, idea like this are utterly fkn stupid.

what do people not understand about finite resources and the exponential curve?

end welfare - kill banksters.

Maybe Switzerland is ready?..could be interesting

FBD
06-03-2016, 02:38 PM
ready for what? they've discovered tesla's secrets and have removed present day resource limitations? they've killed off the banksters and dont have 65% of their potential profits skimmed away before anyone can move a muscle?

nobody ever articulates how this pie in the sky shit is supposed to work.

Teh One Who Knocks
06-03-2016, 02:43 PM
http://i.imgur.com/EiXReeP.jpg?1

lost in melb.
06-03-2016, 02:54 PM
ready for what? they've discovered tesla's secrets and have removed present day resource limitations? they've killed off the banksters and dont have 65% of their potential profits skimmed away before anyone can move a muscle?

nobody ever articulates how this pie in the sky shit is supposed to work.

I have no idea how it will work. I suppose most Swiss will still keep working :)

All I know is this is the future ---> pssst large scale human-powered industry is on its way out

FBD
06-03-2016, 03:11 PM
I have no idea how it will work. I suppose most Swiss will still keep working :)

All I know is this is the future ---> pssst large scale human-powered industry is on its way out

:-k


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tO5sxLapAts

as to its on its way out...


Leaders face a no-win dilemma: any change of course will crash the system, but maintaining the current course will also crash the system.


=banksters, georgia guidestones, 500 million.


I certainly hope I'm wrong about their intentions./

lost in melb.
06-03-2016, 03:33 PM
Im not sure if it is a crash. Its very similar to the current welfare system, except everyone gets it and the stigma about being unemployed is reduced.

My concern would be inflation!

FBD
06-03-2016, 08:07 PM
Here's the thing - it is total disincentive for people to work - you work, your welfare gets reduced.

So unless you're making a lot of money - which, by the way, you're going to get taxed more steeply to pay for the freebies for others, that you dont qualify for, because you make too much...you literally have zero reason to go to work or support yourself in the least.

So where's the commerce, where are people making money with which to pay others, with which to buy shit...

and "government spending" is invariably on credit to banksters...

so yeah, here, have more helpings of debt...oh btw here's your new tax bill to pay for all this interest on all this shit you're buying.

um....at what point does it make no sense for the banksters any longer and they decide we need a world war to wipe some slates clean?

the wars are always over debts.





point being, we exist in a world of finite resources, and when that's the case, you cant just act all nigger rich like your resources are not finite. tends to end badly, with a really large bill.

FBD
06-04-2016, 04:21 PM
this is what happens when too much welfare is handed out (albeit, its corporations, in this graphic)

http://oi68.tinypic.com/2e1t4xw.jpg

Muddy
06-04-2016, 04:31 PM
Jester, are you going to vote on this?

redred
06-04-2016, 04:54 PM
Are sweds aloud?

lost in melb.
06-05-2016, 02:08 PM
I think it's coming to a scandanavian country near you, soon :)

lost in melb.
06-05-2016, 02:09 PM
Here's the thing - it is total disincentive for people to work - you work, your welfare gets reduced.


Nope! LTR

Please stop going on about your bankstas, lol. Different topic, you nutter! :lol:

FBD
06-05-2016, 05:37 PM
:-k



WHAT would you do if your income were taken care of?”
The often-dreamt of prospect is being posed as a serious question to people in Switzerland this weekend, with the country set to vote on a universal basic income scheme that could see every citizen paid a wage by default.
The monthly payment — undecided as yet but slated to be around 2500 Swiss Francs or $3500 — would be paid to every citizen, for their whole life, no matter where they live.
Those with a job could still work but would have the monthly income deducted from their salary.
Basic Income Switzerland campaigners say the money is simply a human right and would bring people's income in line with the cost of living.


And Sorry to keep bringing banksters into this, but when a collection of entities that is so pervasive in the field and epitomizes the penchant for giving governments a blank check with which they can make any number of promises with the citizens' money....*buzzer goes off*

oh, but wait - its not the citizens' money. the notes are debt instruments attached to the banking entities that are created with no care in the world as to the collateral to actually back up said debt instrument.


"debt instrument" represents a debt that your country "owes" to "banks." as opposed to something backed with real collateral, e.g. something like lincoln or kennedy's silver backed currency....but even at that its still not a silver or gold coin that contains the value by virtue of its features and not because someone somewhere says there's a real bit of collateral behind the paper. there isnt even the pretense with most currencies these days.





people seem to forget this fact about what "money" has become. its all debt to a collection of private corporations. a wholly counterfeit one, at that.

these entities can say here, create any number you wish to see on the screen - and we'll create it, with nothing to back it, and you owe us all that, plus the 6% of whatever "fee" for the "convenience"...



do you understand what a fuck job this is? do you understand why I say banksters need to hang until purple? (do you at least see how this is connected? ;) )




the crux of this matter is that banksterism enables this sort of government misbehavior in spades. because more debt, more inflation = good for banksters, bad for people.




I dont care that these asshole's great grandparents created these frauds that everyone has been subjected to our whole lives. I just want it to end. And since these assholes with kill anyone who gets in their way, it is simply reasonable to assume that they will need to be exterminated before they would be willing to give up the position of fraudulent privilege.




with real collateral as a restraint on government financing and as much or more importantly, the lack of ability to debase and stealthily steal from citizens with nothing they can do about it...

such silly notions as this "basic income" arent even spoken of in serious circles.





and besides, this got shot down like ten mofos ;)

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-06-05/landslide-vote-swiss-reject-proposal-hand-out-free-money-everyone

Goofy
06-05-2016, 08:48 PM
Jester, are you going to vote on this?


Are sweds aloud?

Jussi's Danish :slap:



The idea is great in principle but totally unworkable. Why would anyone continue to work a high-risk job when the rewards are the gonna be the same for an overhead linesman and a florist? (just examples that popped into my head). I'm assuming people in high paying jobs will lose out a fair bit too so why would they stay in the country?

Loser
06-05-2016, 11:30 PM
77% of voters in switzerland said hell no.

Goofy
06-06-2016, 12:38 AM
77% of voters in switzerland said hell no.

No surprise really!

Oofty Goofty
06-06-2016, 01:15 AM
My respect for the Swiss has just gone up 77%

Muddy
06-06-2016, 02:31 AM
My respect for the Swiss has just gone up 77%

Haha

RBP
06-06-2016, 03:05 AM
I believe Austria already has a similar system, at least in term of wage flatness, not necessarily guaranteed as I understand it.

Jezter
06-06-2016, 04:40 AM
Jester, are you going to vote on this?
Yes, if it were put on vote here...

Are sweds aloud?
Swede's are not loud really, but faggots they are. :tup: :lol:

I think it's coming to a scandanavian country near you, soon :)
Well, that idea has been thrown around in speculation over here too every now and then. Nothing concrete though.

Jussi's Danish :slap:
Yes. :lol: