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Godfather
09-28-2017, 07:03 AM
A week after Kelly Kuhns learned in a heartbreaking phone call that her son would be born with Down syndrome, abortion was mentioned.

She declined.

“I loved him already,” said Kuhns, 36, of Plain City.

On April 26, 2015, her son Oliver was born.

“Honestly, I love his extra chromosome; it makes him even better,” Kuhns said.

Two bills in the state legislature would attempt to ensure that others follow suit. Senate Bill 164 and House Bill 214 would prohibit a person from performing or attempting to perform or induce an abortion on a woman whose unborn child has or might have Down syndrome.

Violators would face a fourth-degree felony. If convicted the state medical board would take away a physician’s license to practice medicine in Ohio. They are the latest in a series of bills before a legislature that has steadily chipped away at abortion rights in recent years.

“I believe they’re really compatible bills,” said Rep. Derek Merrin, R-Monclova Township, sponsor of the House version. “We’re all reaching for the same goal.”

A genetic disorder, Down syndrome is caused when abnormal cell division results in an extra full or partial copy of chromosome 21. People with Down syndrome have an increased risk for some medical conditions including congenital heart defects, respiratory and hearing problems, Alzheimer’s disease, childhood leukemia and thyroid conditions. Down syndrome is the most common chromosomal condition in the United States and about one in every 700 babies in the United States is born with it, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

“It’s very concerning to think that some lives would be judged as less valuable than others,” said Sen. Frank LaRose, R-Hudson, sponsor of the Senate version.

A review published in 2012 showed termination rates following a prenatal diagnosis of Down syndrome ranged from 67 to 85 percent depending on maternal age, race and ethnicity and gestational age.

To Kuhns, the legislation is personal. Raising Oliver, she said, is hardly any different than raising her other two children, Ethan, 10, and Charlotte, 9.

“We do have a couple extra appointments, but other than that, it’s not really different,” Kuhns said.

But Dr. Erika Boothman said the law would drive a wedge between the patient-physician relationship.

“Even though this bill doesn’t criminalize women who get abortions, I think that anytime you hear about a law prohibiting abortion care, women get scared that they will end up being in trouble with the law if they choose to have an abortion,” said Boothman, a physician resident specializing in obstetrics and gynecology.

Building a patient’s trust can be tough, Boothman said, especially when patients have a lower medical literacy.

“The last thing that I want is a woman not feeling like she can come to me with questions,” Boothman said. “If you can’t ask questions of your OB/GYN, who can you ask questions to?”

Such legislation would divide patients and physicians, said Kellie Copeland, executive director of NARAL Pro-Choice Ohio.

“They shouldn’t feel like Big Brother is watching them,” she said.

Ohio would not be the first state to place restrictions on selective abortions.

Seven states — Arizona, Kansas, North Carolina, North Dakota, Oklahoma, Pennsylvania and South Dakota — ban abortions when it comes to sex selection. Arizona enacted legislation prohibiting a woman from receiving an abortion because of race. In 2013, North Dakota became the first state to prohibit abortions in cases of genetic abnormality.

Ohio Right to Life President Mike Gonidakis wonders what other prenatal diagnoses might lead to an abortion.

“If we don’t draw a line and say enough is enough, how far does that continue to go?” Gonidakis asked. “It’s scary to think about.”

The American Congress of Obstetricians and Gynecologists recommends that every pregnant woman be screened for chromosomal abnormalities, Boothman said. Doctors use “soft markers” to gauge the probability that the fetus has Down syndrome, Boothman said.

“That can be tough to explain to patients because we’re not saying yes or no,” she said. “We’re saying here’s the probability.”

If there is a high probability, doctors can offer two different types of diagnostic testing — amniocentesis and chorionic villus sampling, Boothman said. Amniocentesis samples amniotic fluid to look for birth defects, genetic diseases and chromosomal abnormalities. Chorionic villus sampling looks for chromosome abnormalities.

“There’s nowhere in the culture of prenatal testing or genetic counseling or obstetricians that would try to coerce or force a woman to terminate a pregnancy,” Boothman said. “This is all about providing a patient with information and letting her make the choice with what she wants to do with that information.”

Boothman fears this would make it difficult to practice obstetrics in Ohio.

“I think that it would make us think twice about offering prenatal testing to a patient,” she said.

Godfather
09-28-2017, 07:04 AM
This post from someone in the thread on the article above was pretty powerful:


I've posted my experience before about growing up with a younger brother diagnosed as severely retarded and with Dubowitz syndrome. There are not enough resources for handicapped children or for their parents :

My brother was severely retarded and had Dubowitz syndrome. All his life he never got past being a two year old mentally, he couldn't speak, could barely understand words, had terrible balance when he walked, cried horribly when he was bored (which was often - we either had to have Barney on constantly or I would to dance with him to loud music until I was exhausted). If we didn't watch him, He would go to the bathroom, turn on the hot water water and put his hand underneath it (I used to wonder if there was a sentient person trapped in his brain and this was his only method of communicating). He pulled my hair in the morning because he'd wake up at 6am because he naturally woke up that early and I, being a kid, didn't and my mom, exhausted from taking care of him all the time, didn't either. He'd smear corn infused poop everywhere if he wasn't changed right away (he always wore diapers) and when you're a single mom of a brat (me) and a mentally handicapped kid and your job is already exhausting because you're on your feet all day, you can't come home and relax you have to take care of him, but there's a point where you break and you can't do it anymore and you sit in your chair, depressed and alone and overwhelmed, and there are not enough resources for these families.

He got into a group home before I went into fifth grade. That was after a many years long waiting list. The guilt my mom experienced for "abandoning" him... For not being able to care properly for her child.. It destroyed her. To this day. He died a week before his 21st birthday and I hadn't seen him for 5 years before then.

I wouldn't wish that existence on anyone. Not what my mother went through, not what he went through. There was no point to his life. I would never want that for any child I bore. I would never want that life for any other children I bore who would become their sibling.

You have to be STRONG to survive raising a child like that. Not everyone has that strength. Not everyone with that strength may last. It is hard. Harder than any one who hasn't experienced it could know. And I don't wish anyone to experience it if they don't want to.



I went to elementary school with a boy who had fairly mild down syndrome and he was a joy, we loved him, but he's also been his parent's entire life for the last 30 years.... another kid in my brother's grade only lasted in school a year or two before being moved to a more specialized program as his Downs and related issues were far more severe, and completely non-verbal, no eye contact, nothing. It was actually downright disturbing... I still remember hearing the distressed noises he made. I'm not sure how being a parent to a child like that doesn't ruin your life to an extent, unless you're an absolute saint.

Teh One Who Knocks
09-28-2017, 11:22 AM
All this will do is force people to go to neighboring states to have an abortion if the decide they don't want to have a child that will have Down's or any other for of mental retardation. As GF mentioned and was mentioned in that other post from someone that has lived thru it, having a child with this condition is more than many people could manage or handle and for the state to FORCE them to do it is completely unfair. Is the state going to provide free in-home care for this child so the parents can work? Will the state provide free medical care for any conditions that come up related to this birth defect for the rest of the child's life? I've known people that have had children like this and it is not an easy task. Raising a normal child is hard enough, but raising one that has this kind of birth defect is thousands of times harder and it will consume your entire life. I've seen marriages ended and families torn apart. If you know ahead of time your child will have Down's and still want to go thru with it, more power to you, you are a better person than most. But if you decide that raising a child like this is not something you and your family can take on, then the state should not force you to do so.

:2cents:

RBP
09-28-2017, 12:11 PM
I don't understand. Banned at any point? Even an otherwise legal abortion? So the woman just says it has nothing to do with the testing (or the sex or race in other states).

What am I missing?

Muddy
09-28-2017, 01:39 PM
Well said, Lancey.. Fair minded and informed.. :thumbsup:

Teh One Who Knocks
09-28-2017, 02:21 PM
What bothers me are the parents that try and, for lack of a better word, romanticize this, like the mother in question in the OP.


“Honestly, I love his extra chromosome; it makes him even better,” Kuhns said.

No, it doesn't make him better, it makes him have a life where, depending on how bad it is, he will need constant care of some kind. It will take over your entire life.


Raising Oliver, she said, is hardly any different than raising her other two children, Ethan, 10, and Charlotte, 9.

“We do have a couple extra appointments, but other than that, it’s not really different,” Kuhns said.

This is a bold face lie as well. Maybe as a baby/young toddler there might not be much difference in the way the child is raised, but it WILL get worse. And again, depending on how bad it turns out to be, it can be an awful situation to go through if you are not prepared for it mentally (not even mentioning the extreme expense that will go along with it).

For people like this to more or less shame other parents for not wanting to have a child with Down's or some other form of mental retardation is disingenuous at best. Just like they don't want people telling them what to do (she declined the option of having an abortion), they shouldn't be telling (or forcing) others to do something against their will either. How would this mother feel if the bill was written the other way? That any fetus that shows signs of a birth defect must be aborted instead? I'm sure she would be singing a different tune completely. Again, if you choose to raise a child with Down's, you are an amazing person and you are better than most people, but that doesn't mean that other people should be forced into a life they neither cannot handle nor do not want.


/rant

Pony
09-28-2017, 10:23 PM
There are going to be a lot of Downs kids given up at birth. Likely most will end up being raised by the state.

Muddy
09-29-2017, 01:20 AM
Its a bad precedent.. If the parents want to proceed thats their perogative.. But past that its reckless.. I have first hand experience with this.

Hal-9000
09-29-2017, 08:39 PM
I'm going to go a different way on this. Eugenics has been around for a long time and if a precedent is ever set to support and enforce it, our world changes that day.

Touching on what Lance said, there are various levels of care required based on what is going on with the child's genetics.

I think this is definitely a parental choice thing and honesty from doctors and care givers has to be part of the choice.

The only reason I brought up Eugenics is because some feel that genetic 'cleansing' or improvement should be a law, not a choice. I disagree.

Hal-9000
09-29-2017, 08:40 PM
Except in the case of Denver Broncos fans. They should be phased out over a brief five year period.